Homecoming of Zardari

puts a smile on my face... God knows its out of shame or abhorrence….
We have precedents of recruiting members of the house/ government directly from the state prison (being held there on charges of corruption and heinous crimes) and governor sindh is no exception…
Isn’t there any Bhagat Singh amongst us?

I wonder what any pak politician has to say about this and other similar incidents?.Shame!!.

Pastor Shamoun Babar and his driver Daniel Emanuel of the Ilam Dost Foundation, Peshawar, NWFP were found dead dumped on a road in Peshawar April 07, 2005.Their bodies were mutilated, nose and ears cut off and bullet holes pierced their bodies.The two were found in Mulazai village in Nasirbagh.

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On Easter Sunday,March 27, 2005 there was an attack on the Apostolic Church near Khamba , Lahore, in which a few gunmen opened fire killing one Arshad masih and severely injuring seven other worshippers.

Since childhood, I have found the Bhuttos highly fascinating.

I remember hearing J.A. Bhutto’s speech (made at the U.N. during the India-Pakistan war of 1971) on the radio (I am sure certain senior Chowkies are going all mushy over that one!). At the time, the Pakistani media was really hyping it up and throwing in words like “historic”, while I, a mere child, remember thinking – “So what’s he REALLY saying? That he is GOING from the U.N.? What’s the big deal about that?” In retrospect, that one little event captures the essence of the whole Bhutto clan – a really inflated sense of their own importance, a lot of theatrics but extremely lousy on the action front!

Here are a few things that the Bhuttos could have done differently:

1) Avoided the breakup of Pakistan by letting the eastern wing have political power.
2) Avoided bringing in Zia-ul-Haq (we know where that road led to).
3) Avoided rigging the 1977 elections, which led to widespread unrest and enabled the army to get back into the saddle.
4) Avoided starting work on the nuclear bomb, which would eventually make Pakistan the focus of some real intensive international scrutiny and tie up its hands.
5) Avoided focusing on how to enrich themselves and let some credibility build around civilian institutions, by running a clean administration.
6) Avoided cutting a deal with the Army (again and again (and still trying to weasel in using the same technique))
7) Avoided running to Uncle Sam again and again on Pakistan’s domestic situation – it just makes Benazir look SO foolish!

Indeed, there was a lot to avoid! On the whole, a very clear-cut case of oratorical skills put to use to DAMAGE the country far, far more than any enemies (real of perceived) could ever have accomplished!

People should know when their time is up, but politicians in the subcontinent never do! The real question then is, why does the electorate keep electing and reelecting such individuals! Until THEIR mindset can be changed, one would only expect to see more and more of the Bhuttos (or their Sharif clones). Therefore, for all you say about him, Zardari may indeed be on a (sort of) comeback trail! Unless a fresh crop of individuals with spine can come to leadership positions, but one may need to wait a while for that – a LONG while.

Good article, with some great lines. This one, e.g. ``If Zardari is Nelson Mandela then Benazir must be Mother Teresa. `` ha! ha!

Pakistan produces bonzai leaders; midgets pretending to be giants.

Ciao

If some of the accusations against Zardari wrt to corruption and womanizing are true it must be easier to buy him off. why is the guy put in prison for eight years ? I do not think Gandhi and Nehru served eight years in prison at a stretch. Is something going on between Benazir and the Military ? Unless someone is vindictive it does not make sense !!!

bbabu: Pakistans establishment despises anything associated with the word PPP and Bhutto..it`s I am afraid a pathological disease..However Zardari is without an iota of a doubt corrupt and I believe his cronies were also involved in outright murder...

The only thing to his credit is that.....he is in the wrong but he honest;y believes he isn`t..something like George Bush..people can understand even appreciate consistency..Zardari is a corrupt man whose victimisation was made easier because of his corruption..but he has also been consistent..and as such can be better understood...

Pakistan is not an independent, free country. It is under the occupation of one of the most brutal and odious governing entity world has ever seen - right up there in the league of Nazis, Ottomans, PolPot and Catholic Church etc. The mechanics and happenings of the so called political process is, therefore, completely irrelevant. For Pakistan to reconstitute itself in any form of Federal structure or in a State, the pre-requisite will be the liberation of the peoples from the tyranny of Pakistani Establishment. And only then any new social contract, a renegotiation of a new State can happen between the peoples living in the areas called Pakistan. IMO.

Zakkk #7

`` bbabu: Pakistans establishment despises anything associated with the word PPP and Bhutto..it`s I am afraid a pathological disease..However Zardari is without an iota of a doubt corrupt and I believe his cronies were also involved in outright murder...

The only thing to his credit is that.....he is in the wrong but he honest;y believes he isn`t..something like George Bush..people can understand even appreciate consistency..Zardari is a corrupt man whose victimisation was made easier because of his corruption..but he has also been consistent..and as such can be better understood.. ``

He probably believes he is a big shot and deserves to do what he pleases.

Ha ha ha,...i thoroughly enjoyed the article. Very well written in a sarcastic manner.

why do we continue to get these clowns who claim to be a blessing for Pakistan & Pakistanis while in reality are bigots, corrupt and engage in nepotism. BB, Zardari, Nawas Sharif, AQ Khan ..... and the lists goes on. And yet, without hesitation i can guarantee that they can still get thousands of morons to come to the streets for their support. Pitiful indeed!

Is Pakistan a free or independent country? By all means it is as free and as independent as other countries in the world are. In today’s world even the US in not a totally free and Independent country. If the Pak army were an outside force, it would have been whole lot easier to mount a campaign against it and get the whole world behind “the struggle for independence.” The Pakistan army is very much a product of Pakistan therefore; nobody would support any movement that calls for independence of Pakistan from the Army. Neither can this army be in the “league of Nazis, Ottomans, PolPot and Catholic Church etc.” All these groups represent different political and tyrannical strains. Since the army is very much a product of Pakistan, the struggle against the army would have to be in Pakistan’s context.
Name calling and taking extremist position does not help any. All countries are under some establishment. The purpose of any political struggle is to replace one form of establishment with another form of establishment. The army is going to be replaced by some other group of establishment. A country is like an inverted tree and many political and social struggles take place within one tree structure. One group may call the army “brutal and odious governing entity” the other group would call the politicians corrupt and inept. Both positions are fanatic and in the end both groups have to find a way to live within one tree.
Confrontation with the army at this point would only hurt the politicians more.
Benazir, right after the Oct 12 coup d’etat was of the opinion that she and her party can work with the army. Now the opportunity has presented itself, she sees no difficulty in working with the army. Nawaz Sharif may follow in her footsteps soon.
Both Benazir and Nawaz are still the most popular and only political force in Pakistan. Shujaat league and MMA are non political and fly by night type of groups that were put together to oppose the real deal. MMA is an alliance of religious parties and it can be dismantled any time. So is the Shujaat group. They have pretty much outlived their usefulness and now is the time for real political parties to work with the army to move the country forward. The army cannot deny their participation though it would continue to downplay their importance. The army needs to maintain its position after soft pedaling on the Kashmir issue, only Benazir and Nawaz can help the army out and not the MMA or the Shujaat group as both are political liabilities.

In the absence of any political contributions and lobbying group system, all contributions to the political parties appear to be corrupt money but it is not. Political parties spend fortunes to stay afloat in all types of circumstances, if they don’t have money they die. That is the reason that whenever the army comes into power it launches corruption cases against the political Parties. The purpose is to weaken them financially. It is ridiculous to say that in a 1 ½ years of power, Benzair or Zardari were able to amass $1.5 billion. Only a total stupid would write that and an oxy moron would believe that.

``If Zardari is Nelson Mandela then Benazir must be Mother Teresa.`` What a stupid line!

Note to #12, HP

Dear HP, this (satirical) article is about Zardari, and by extension about the Bhuttos. Most of your rambling explanation/justification is not! I have two questions for you:

1) Is the article accurate? (If not, please identify where the author is misstating a fact.)

2) MOST dictators and totalitarian regimes are based internally. From the way you present it, the army came from the people so there is not much one can do! What is YOUR solution? (And this “working with the army” bit will not fly. Been there, done that, never works!)

More notes:
[Is Pakistan a free or independent country? By all means it is as free and as independent as other countries in the world are. In today’s world even the US in not a totally free and Independent country.]
I think a simple “yes” or “no” answer is called for, and you will find not too many takers for the “yes”. Why are you being so wishy-washy?

[The Pakistan army is very much a product of Pakistan therefore; nobody would support any movement that calls for independence of Pakistan from the Army. Neither can this army be in the “league of Nazis, Ottomans, PolPot and Catholic Church etc.”]
How inconsistent can you get! You think the Nazis came from the OUTSIDE of Germany? They were (are?) just as much a product of the soil. Does that make them legitimate? Of course not!

[All countries are under some establishment.]
HP, repeat after me - a dictatorship in an ILLEGITIMATE “establishment”, and therefore MUST NOT be tolerated!

[The purpose of any political struggle is to replace one form of establishment with another form of establishment. The army is going to be replaced by some other group of establishment.]
And WHO will carry out the “replacement”? (Ancient question: who will bell the cat? One definite answer - not HP, who appears to be too busy dancing around the issues!)

[One group may call the army “brutal and odious governing entity” the other group would call the politicians corrupt and inept. Both positions are fanatic and in the end both groups have to find a way to live within one tree.]
The point is not who is better at name-calling but which group has more legitimacy!

[Benazir, right after the Oct 12 coup d’etat was of the opinion that she and her party can work with the army. Now the opportunity has presented itself, she sees no difficulty in working with the army. Nawaz Sharif may follow in her footsteps soon.]
And of course, another “brilliant” deduction by Benazir and Sharif – those smartest of individuals!

[Both Benazir and Nawaz are still the most popular and only political force in Pakistan.]
So why should they submit to the army? THAT should bother you!

[The army needs to maintain its position after soft pedaling on the Kashmir issue]
Says who? When will you guys stop propagating the canard that the population at large has any serious concerns beyond bread and butter issues?

[In the absence of any political contributions and lobbying group system, all contributions to the political parties appear to be corrupt money but it is not. …]
You may be right here. But the point is to come up with a BETTER system, not just submit to the status-quo!

[``If Zardari is Nelson Mandela then Benazir must be Mother Teresa.`` What a stupid line!]
HP, looks like the author stepped on some sore toes here (you are not related to Benazir by any chance, are you?)! That stuff is meant to be FUNNY and not to be taken literally! From somebody like you, I would have expected cleverer remarks than outright name-calling!

BeeJay,

I was not commenting on the article but on some interact. Couples of lines in the article were so outrageous that I decided to put the author in place. The author is still wet behind the ears and I did not find the article humorous in any way! There have been constant attempts by certain folks to paint the politicians as either corrupt or incompetent. These guys would rather have the army run the country forever.

I answered your question 1 above. #2. All I said was that the “The Pakistan army is very much a product of Pakistan”. There is a difference in “from the people” and “of the country”. If you read something wrong, you will invariably jump to wrong conclusions.
I don’t think I need to read after you to know that the dictatorship is illegitimate. Once you understand what “establishment” is you will grasp what I said. I have no time to give you lessons in basic political science.

“You think the Nazis came from the OUTSIDE of Germany?”
Nazis were a political group and they were not the army. The Pak army is not fascist in any political or economic sense of the word. Now if this is hard for you to fathom then there is really nothing I can do about it. I suggest that you study more before commenting on some concept that you are not clear about.

“And WHO will carry out the “replacement”?”
There is more than one form of political struggle. A process replaces the old system and brings in a replacement. There is a need to build a consensus process in Pakistan. The army and the legit political parties such as the PPP and the Nawaz league would have to work together to develop that process.

Again, you did not grasp my comment about Kashmir.
Somebody else coined the “mother Teresa” line and the author decided to use that w/o any reference. It is a stupid line.

Pak politicians must be an icompetent lot.I heard that karachi has had much load shedding thus far this year, and in one area the power supply was cut for approx. 20 hours!!!.We in India should be grateful for our politicians.They never cross the proverbial line.The following link will take you to photos of IIT, Mumbai and other residential developments in Mumbai.The IIT was built with public money.Atleast our pols think about the country once in a while.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=198981&page=16&pp=20

A-
My def. of a free and independent State consists of the following Concrete points:

1 - State has a constitution sanctioned by an electoral body
2 - State is governed by an electoral college constitued through an adult franchise which empowers persons/ministers to exercise authotiy on their behalf.
3 - There is a well-defined succession principle approved by the electorate and enacted through constitution.
4 - Independent Judiciary.
5 - Independent Press.

Once again, i will apply the qualifier IMO here, and say Pakistan is not an independent and free country. The way i define this independent and free can be argued. At best, Pakistan is like Castro`s state.

B-
Pakistani Establishment = Pak. Army + their cohorts in business and land owning class who masquerade as ``Politicians`` when army needs them are in the league of genociders based on what they did

- in East Pakistan:
figure of pre-planned killings supposedly go into millions and the ones who commited these horrendous crimes in the name of peoples of pakistan lived their retirements and got buried with full military honors. Rao Farman Ali is i think still alive.
- in Baluchistan in the 70s,
- in Karachi and Hyderabad in 80s
- in Afghanistan in the 90s, feeding red faced kids to Afghani Militias and Daisy Cutters
- in Kashmir.

All these things are well-known - just because international constellation of players are all in line to give Musharraf a blank cheque doesnt make us to get schizo and construct an alternate feelgood reality for ourselves. Sooner and later, this entity has to account for its bloody acts.