Dusk

ntsyed,
Amen! Salaams to you too.

Subroto,
Kardesh is universal. :)

Re #157 by dalchawal on May 18, 2005 5:15pm PT
``Ozer Kardesh,...``

Oops getting careless here birader.

ntsyed,
I would never dare to attack your family jewels. As for your diet of dal and chawal, kudos to you - we have much in common. :)

Re: # 161

dear dalchawal,

I`m relieved to know you would never dare to attack my family jewels. However, as per my disclaimer (No reference to my southern hemisphere intended...it would be purely the readers` imagination.) I was merely referring to mewajaat (almonds, cashews, etc).

Also, I`m glad to have something as wonderful as dal chawal in common with a fellow Pakistani.

:-)~~

Many Salaams to you!

For the record (from my i-log of May 19, 2005). Thanks.

“...The words
One has
And shall
Perhaps
Will have
Till last
One breathes
Is what
One feels
From base
Of soul
If have
We any

And time
Indeed
Revocable
Privilege
But only
By will
Of God
And trust
In words
We speak
In here
Is never
Revocable
By man
By men
By God
At all
So strong
SO strong
Yet is
So frail
Fragile
To whims
Of man
And men

For sure
We seek
To know
To learn
Consume
Not blood
But spirit
At times
(If lucky)
Do find
That source
Outside
Of source
Inside
Of self
To know
Is all
Complete
And thus
Complete
Then whole
Is one
Inside…”

Ozer:

I second #157. You were exposed to some very tough critics and you bore it well. Now time to consult the muse again, sit down at the laptop, write another piece, and post it anew. I look forward to reading more of your work :).

Ozer Kardesh,
Don`t let the collection of jealous and myopic mongrels distract you from your talent. You are truly a gifted and talented writer to visit our neighbourhood. Many of us find you a refreshingly new and lingustically advanced innovator. Please disregard some of the venom that these obviously misguided miscreants have splashed in your direction. Keep writing.
Thanks,
Wa la mazmoon al kamal wa ikhwana ul kameen.

peanut gallery .......

........ so what`s the verdict ? ........ is this ``article`` hogwash or what ? ......... and what happened to ozer`s imaginary fan club ?

Re: # 153

Hamid M

Maybe, just try and fathom the thought, the ``fan club`` have momentarily vanished into thin air. Could you exercise such a vanishing act yourself ?

Purely out of public interest amigo ?

Re: # 154

NT SYED and Miriam K

Both your posts were witty and drop-dead hilarious that they impaired my tummy with ceaseless laughter. Now let me attempt to reciprocate that favor, in my own enfeabled way: I eagerly await your respective feedback.

To the question : Do you think a chick flick with kicks but no licks can bust the box office bimbo feats ?

The answer is yes. Let me pretend to be a film director. I am driven to cast South Asian female felines at war. What could be more arousing for us testosterone-fuelled males than witnessing beady-eyed Bolly-Lolly wood “bimbettes lipo-suctioning” the living daylights out of each other ? Taking pot-shots at their botoxed-Barbie rivals ?

Catfights come naturally to filmdom’s actresses, like arranged marriages come naturally to Machiavellian match-making aunties. Male actors maintain the “bhai-bhai” camouflage, their opposite gender hone a `Bollywood Bi&ching` beyond belief. The blood-baths are non-ending: Younger nubile actresses with candy-floss roles of dancing around trees, rolling-down hills with grass revealing a tad bit of sari….now lets change the script a little...

Miriam and NT Syed inch your imaginations toward a meatier plot. Ozer`s plot. I`m filming a “Desi Charlie`s Angel”: going for the full-throttle bagging super-duper “jhatkas” galore. Ek, do, teen and here comes out the desi female fighting machines. Steamy scratching hair-pulling scenes have our towering “iconettes” crumble into mud-slinging mania. Unsullied by the venomous outbursts our vixens, with their faded concealer fight to be summoned by the most dexterous plastic surgeons.

In the wrestling ring, salacious gossips are settled as we have biting brouhaha between Kareena and Bipasha, wanting to finish where they left off in Ajnabee , Lara Dutta –vs- Priyanka Chopra continue a spate of punches from a much-awaited sequel for Andaaz, Karisma and Raveena`s long-running feud over who can wear more mascara and Manisha Koirala and Ash venting their spleen on who will be the first to get that tummy-tuck. Rani Mukerji can unleash her pent-up estrogen against Sunitaji in an aim to win the heart of Govinda.

A digression to the plot is necessary: here I intensify the circus by bringing in Miriam K`s aptly described “ghee-smeared aunty jees” with augmented bicep girth who jump into the ring merely for heightening the shock factor. Here is where the celluloids sashay in with their clinging saris giving all these tiny anorexics a run for their rupees.

The ``aunteez`` flex their enviable flab and crumple these skinny divas into desperation. Sans make-up, sans pedicure, these sixty-somethings shock entranced audiences. The “bimbette” feathers are scrambled under the heavyweight of our celluloid “ranis”. Raking in “pungas” with the “phopos” and “mumanis” never was a good idea eh NT Syed and Miriam ?

In the audience unsavory “paan” chewing “peindus” are adoring every nano-second.
No more exploited dancing prowess. No more villains with moustaches. Industry veterans suggest an image transformation. No more sustained lycra-clad, teenybopper roles. The clout wielded by our horizontally challenged aunty jees reigns supreme.

Their roll-call for gossip is winner du jour. Let them take over Bolly-Lolly wood. Ntsyed here I have shown you the licks (paratha hungry aunts) and their wielding “kicks”. 60+ “Ma Baker” female Dakus who cremate other “Kuttees” and say “main tery khoon peee jaoungee” .
Now that is what I call a real script.

The utterance of desi women as ``ghee`` and celluloid ``tigresses`` will certainly provides a testosterone-fuelled male ilk with sporadic climactic ecstasy evidencing “a ceaseless gushing of the embarrassing kind” ?

Will it not ?

Beejay:

Although I would be hard-pressed to live up to such effusive praise, I do thank you for the kind words. That was very gracious of you. So gracious in fact that I’m even going to let the “for a woman” comment slide ;).

Regarding the “unspunky” name; you know I’ve been heckling my parents about that for years but to no avail :).

Umm…but you do realize that it’s a pseudonym right? I mean who in their right minds logs onto these things with their real names, excepting for Temporal that is ;).

Temporal:

About a “hundred” posts ago you’d mentioned your i-log and so my innate curiosity got the better of me and I took a peak. If I may say so without making you blush to the ears, that’s a prolific body of work. I feel entirely deprived to have not been a part of it. I plan on going through it but not “road-runner” style you know. I will do so at a leisurely pace. The couple of pieces that I did read at random I liked (very much) :).

Re: # 152

NT SYED and Miriam K

Both your posts were witty and drop-dead hilarious that they impaired my tummy with ceaseless laughter. Now let me attempt to reciprocate that favor, in my own enfeabled way: I eagerly await your respective feedback.

To the question : Do you think a chick flick with kicks but no licks can bust the box office bimbo feats ?

The answer is yes. Let me pretend to be a film director. I am driven to cast South Asian female felines at war. What could be more arousing for us testosterone-fuelled males than witnessing beady-eyed Bolly-Lolly wood “bimbettes lipo-suctioning” the living daylights out of each other ? Taking pot-shots at their botoxed-Barbie rivals ?

Catfights come naturally to filmdom’s actresses, like arranged marriages come naturally to Machiavellian match-making aunties. Male actors maintain the “bhai-bhai” camouflage, their opposite gender hone a `Bollywood Bi&ching` beyond belief. The blood-baths are non-ending: Younger nubile actresses with candy-floss roles of dancing around trees, rolling-down hills with grass revealing a tad bit of sari….now lets change the script a little...

Miriam and NT Syed inch your imaginations toward a meatier plot. Ozer`s plot. I`m filming a “Desi Charlie`s Angel”: going for the full-throttle bagging super-duper “jhatkas” galore. Ek, do, teen and here comes out the desi female fighting machines. Steamy scratching hair-pulling scenes have our towering “iconettes” crumble into mud-slinging mania. Unsullied by the venomous outbursts our vixens, with their faded concealer fight to be summoned by the most dexterous plastic surgeons.

In the wrestling ring, salacious gossips are settled as we have biting brouhaha between Kareena and Bipasha, wanting to finish where they left off in Ajnabee , Lara Dutta –vs- Priyanka Chopra continue a spate of punches from a much-awaited sequel for Andaaz, Karisma and Raveena`s long-running feud over who can wear more mascara and Manisha Koirala and Ash venting their spleen on who will be the first to get that tummy-tuck. Rani Mukerji can unleash her pent-up estrogen against Sunitaji in an aim to win the heart of Govinda.

A digression to the plot is necessary: here I intensify the circus by bringing in Miriam K`s aptly described “ghee-smeared aunty jees” with augmented bicep girth who jump into the ring merely for heightening the shock factor. Here is where the celluloids sashay in with their clinging saris giving all these tiny anorexics a run for their rupees.

The ``aunteez`` flex their enviable flab and crumple these skinny divas into desperation. Sans make-up, sans pedicure, these sixty-somethings shock entranced audiences. The “bimbette” feathers are scrambled under the heavyweight of our celluloid “ranis”. Raking in “pungas” with the “phopos” and “mumanis” never was a good idea eh NT Syed and Miriam ?

In the audience unsavory “paan” chewing “peindus” are adoring every nano-second.
No more exploited dancing prowess. No more villains with moustaches. Industry veterans suggest an image transformation. No more sustained lycra-clad, teenybopper roles. The clout wielded by our horizontally challenged aunty jees reigns supreme.

Their roll-call for gossip is winner du jour. Let them take over Bolly-Lolly wood. Ntsyed here I have shown you the licks (paratha hungry aunts) and their wielding “kicks”. 60+ “Ma Baker” female Dakus who cremate other “Kuttees” and say “main tery khoon peee jaoungee” .
Now that is what I call a real script.

The utterance of desi women as ``ghee`` and celluloid ``tigresses`` will certainly provides a testosterone-fuelled male ilk with sporadic climactic ecstasy evidencing “a ceaseless gushing of the embarrassing kind” ?

Will it not ?

Re: # 156 by ozerkhalid

The utterance of desi women as ``ghee`` and celluloid ``tigresses`` will certainly provides a testosterone-fuelled male ilk with sporadic climactic ecstasy evidencing “a ceaseless gushing of the embarrassing kind” ?


Thank you for the gracious compliments and generous offer to assist you in your Quixotic exploit of the Bolly-Lolly-woodie-raising-feline-adventure.

However, with all due respect to you and your ghee-laced butting (read budding) ambition, I must decline this offer!

Apparently your youth is unfamiliar with the Mumtaz, Anjuman, Zeenat Aman, ilk of the Lolly-Bolly-woodie-risers of yester age. According to a prominent Pakistani satirist, when Anjuman once won an election of sorts in the NWFP province, she was faced with an allegation that she did not disclose all her assets. She innocently exclaimed she had already done that in her movies; how else one could imagine her to win a popular election. Then, he notes, she`s so respectful of her provincial male ilk that she never turn her back to them ;-)~~

The point is that the target audience has endured and lived through that torture not too long ago; perhaps hamidm2 can elaborate on the horrific nature of that torture.

Granted the testosterone driven handle-bar mouse-tached and charga stuffed bellied Pakis, and their `khuda janay nara kahan bandhtay hain` waisted Indian ilk are a distraught nation of a unique kind. However, I don`t think the punishment you suggest upon them fits the crime - it`s too cruel.

Bhai if our increasingly jihadi men could not be made to ``rise`` by the Gitmo ``well trained`` felines with allegedly every trick in the Kamasutra, then what chance do you think our ghee-filled mela maweshian has, especially in an apparent double-jeopardy scenario?

On the other hand, it might give some new ideas to MiriamK`s auntiejees to tie her off to their friend’s second cousin’s nephew. one by one as MiriamK angel slices and dices them with a chainsaw foreplay (and perhaps his final play) on wedding nights. Which poses another threat to start a trend in dressing the groom in red for the weddings; not to mention the Bobbitization of the Desi culture.


daalchawal a.k.a MakkahDoubleRoti bhai,

All this leads me to believe that the ``u`` is missing in your first two initials. :)

Ah-haaaaaaaa....so ``U`` are the culprit who`s being going for my nuts. (No reference to my southern hemisphere intended...it would be purely the readers` imagination.)

As for tahemd and goats...well...it`s a long story which I could not impart due to certain prevailing circumstances.

BTW, daalchawal is my favorite meal which I love to devour any chance I get :-)~~

tahmed:

kyuN subah subah jhagRa karwanay per tulau hu`aye ho?

that caveat was a premptive defense aimed at other readers in this public space who may be humour impaired:) ... definitely not aimed at beejay

t

temporal: You address a post to beejay and add that it is ``not for the humour-impaired ``!! Isnt this a contradiction??

beejay:

your thoughtful modesty is an epitome of rewritten history at its most efficacious...and admirable in a certain sense...while not drawing attention you manage to draw attention to #141...

caveat: not for the humour-impaired

t

#147 and the rest of the Chowk crowd:

For what it’s worth, when I posted #141 (which indeed was a rhetorical question), I had just returned from a short (1-2 day) absence and was not in on the full picture which became clear only after reading through the whole set of intermediate interacts more leisurely. (Out of kindness to the losing party (if there is such a thing in the virtual world)) I would have held #141 back, had I realized at that point that the the “knock-out” punch had already been delivered and the game ended. It was not my intent to ``rub it in``. That`s all.

hamidm, rahul your initial hunch was right it is salim chauhan pulling a hilarious fast one.

rahulmal #144 Whatever you say, Sri MahareshchavalanapatnamavalaJEE!! ;-)

miriam #140:

:)

(sigh)

didn`t mom tell you not to swear;)

lve

t

Miriamk, various posts!

In honesty, I have to say that I am highly impressed by your grasp and command (for a woman?) of this subject matter (which goes way over MY head) and in particular, with your confident style! It is impressive and (without meaning to offend anybody else) I can even say that there are few like you around here! Only the name appears to be a little old-fashioned and (if I may say so) not very spunky!

I will request Inspector Clue-so (sorry, I have a preference for the “American” version of the name rather than the one Ozer seems to like) to get working on some of the issues you raise!

Dear Ozer:

I have had limited internet access (except for a short time) so did not get a chance to follow up. Here is one simple question for you.

1) On THIS board, did you (or didn’t you) sign on as “husnaangelique”, “kulsumbeig”, “moazammudasar”, or “sarahhashwani”? (Yes or No answer, please. (“You” as in User-ID/password combination- please no mumbo-jumbo regarding what defines “you”. (I hated Bill Clinton for that.)))

Thanks for providing the yes/no answer honestly!

Beej.

Re: # 141 The answer (yes) is there in your query. How many interactors do you find on Chowk...who really bother to log-in with their complete name, the first and the sur-?? All of `these` do! ahhhh...the faintest of blot, on the otherwise glittering white-collar.

Ozer:
#131

Females certainly have a honed “killer” instinct to protect their young. This is perhaps most evident in the animal kingdom. But women engaging in gratuitous violence to satisfy an innate “feline fighter instinct”? I’m not sure I buy that.

As for the movies you refer to. Well, you so aptly referred to the “titillation factor” and I can’t imagine any man paying $10 to see a movie replete with women cat-fighting without it. We’re all grown ups here, let’s call it what it is. There’s a male sexual fantasy being sold. Only now it’s being experienced in the theatre sitting next to the girlfriend or wife for under $10. Male sexual fantasy satisfied on the cheap. And I have no problem with that but please let’s call it what it is. So, breakthrough roles for female actors or “old wine in new bottles”? I really don’t know. :)

As for your idea of marriage-plotting auntiejees with increased upper body strength?
Let’s think about this for a minute. A roguish auntiejee has me in headlock (rendered
even more inescapable due to augmented bicep girth) and marries me off to her friend’s second cousin’s nephew. Eew! Yuck! and Eeew! Let’s put that idea on the back burner shall we. Besides, I’ve tried to reform these aunties through charm, wit, and wile if only to get them off my back. They’re intractable, armed and dangerous. In fact I think they may have unionized.

Temporal:
#133

The love song of alfred j prufrock not a song?!! B-b-but I could’ve sworn I saw it listed on Britney’s last errmm….”magnum opus” ;).

ntsyed, In #136, you are trying very hard to creat a fungus among us. What is this mischief that I asked you to call the revered sage of Chowk a goat? Then to pick on my vegeterian culinary discipline, you are questioning my nic of dalchawal. All this leads me to believe that the ``u`` is missing in your first two initials. :)

Tahmed32, Like you, I am a Chowk friend of the extinguished Mr. Salim Chauhan. I sent him an e-mail and he has a ``Vacation`` message indicating a long absence. I assume that he has gone to Turkey for his nuptial bliss. You, sir, are never mistaken.

dalchawal: You mention the distinguished Mr. Salim Chauhan. You know him?? I believe he has left for Turkey to get married. But then, I could be mistaken....

ozerkhalid #134 as they say in french, the more things change, the more they remain the same (``plus ca change, plus ca meme chose``, or something like that). So, what Heraclitus warned against 3,000 years ago (i.e. the need to protect a nation`s laws) is certainly something very relevant for Pakistan.

You mentioned the Indian chief justice. India does indeed provide a great example of how democracy, with all its problems, tends to evolve into something better over time. Some years ago, I had the privilege of listening to a gentleman named Seshan who was Chief Election Commissioner in India 15-20 years ago and was responsible for a major clean-up of the election process in India back in the early 1990`s I believe. This is a perfect example of how democracy evolves over time to strengthen law and order.

Anyway, not to stray from the topic, but then this is chowk.

Ozer,
I thoroughly enjoyed reading your masterpiece. It is incredible that such divine oratory can result from the efforts of a mere mortal. I didn`t understand everything, but that is the nature of divinely inspired literature. I can`t help but notice similarities between you and Salim Chauhan. Are you the same? It doesn`t matter, good writers get that kind of response, either you love them or you hate them. I like you. Good on you.

Hamidm,
It`s time to flush you down the toilet and create a riot on Chowk. :)
I never thought that you would be that jealous.

Tahmed,
As usual, you are not one of the sheep.

miriam #130:

you mentioned the valve... the following is from the back pages of my i-log that explains the valve jobs...now shylockian valve jobs....you are giving me ideas;)

***

the world of t`s IMs part I

cute-chowkie: just read bina shah
temporal: achcha
cc: what`s up with this omar guy?
t: faulty valve
cc: faulty valve?
t: long story...he thinks love song of alfred j prufrock is a song
cc: (blinking eyebrows icon)
t: he feels slighted
cc: why`d he feel slighted?
t: how`d i know
cc: you do bring the worst out sometimes
t: (shrug)
cc: tell me about the valve
t: what can i say? it is a minor procedure...opd stuff...day surgery...in and out
cc: in and out (devilish grin icon)
t: no...no...don`t visit there... this valve procedure is a routine surgery ... remember the schiavo case in the news these days? the parents are going to appeal to the supreme court to open the valve and the husband is opposing it? this valve is similar...only its purpose is to let the gaseous build-up ease out...
cc: ah!...a fart valve?...what is wrong with the natural process?
t: some people need additional help for the extra build-up

the world of t`s IMs part II

nawab is subroto`s talking dog he inherited from his friend ahmed when he left for TO

nawab: paw paw
temporal: brb
n: u angry at me?
t: no i prefer subroto
n: u muslim!
t: whaddya mean
n: u animal obsessed muslims
t: (have no clue where this dog is going)
n: you are thinking u have no clue where this dog is going
t: achcha kaam ki baat karo
n: just feel like paw-pawing, u mind?
t: i work sometimes;)
n: u winking at a dog?
t: (kya mushkil hay! yahaan insaanouN say theek say baat nahiN hoti hay aur ab in kuttON say polite conversation karni paRti hay)
n: i know what u r thinking
t: is subroto there?
n: he is sleeping. you know what time it is here?
t: achcha how can i help you
n: aa ga`aye na apni asliyat per
t: (puzzled icon)
n: i liked the valve idea...you should copyright it
t: it is nothing new around here
n: oh?...am sure you can do somethig around it? like the yankee who was attempting to copyright basmati?
t: copyright what? gaseous emission
n: emission control ( these dense humans!)
t: emission control?
n: yeah, like add a gadget to the valve job, a knob or release mechanism that can be self regulatory, with a timer, or with a chain or appendage, that others, i mean family or friends who detect the symptoms can pull it to releive the pressure
t: you should be a scientist
n: just answer my suggestion
t: good point, wonder if we can add a cyber-chain to it so i can pull it from here
n: you do it all the time;)
t: (now dogs are winkjing at me)
n: i have to go
t: play with the hydrant?
n: you humans!.. what is wrong with the hydrant? at least i don`t do it on other humans
t: gtg -- i can only take so much wisdom from dogs. say hi to subroto when he walkes up

“ill-begotten bloodbath”, “Gladiator style sword-flinging”, sharpened knives, arm-wrestling, world war 3, bazookas, grenades, patriot-missiles, assassins, crow-eating.

Boys really….all this pent up aggression. Surely you can think of more enjoyable outlets
for it instead of gearing up to smite each other with 5-syllable words. What did Temporal call it…”a Shylockian valve-job”.

I once read somewhere that men start wars and women build consensus. Where for crying out loud are the women on this forum!

Re: # 130

Miriam K

What about the feline fighter instincts of women ?

Uma Thurman -v-Lucy Liu`s Crazy 88
Cameron Diaz -v- Evil Temptress collagen injected Demi Moore
Halle Berry`s Catwoman gymnastics

Miriam now just as beefy bankable females like Xena, GI Jane and Elektra are raising temperatures at global Cineplexes, actresses are no longer perky love interests and weepy crime victims, (Gwenyth Paltrow take note, especially whilst holding awards)

Movie studios finally realized that women can royally kick derrieres. Literally. Lara Croft: Tomb Raider, Charlie`s Angels, and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon all vaulted, jabbed, and roundhouse-kicked their feline whiskers past the $100-million benchmark of a cinema blockbuster.

Angelina Jolie whirling her way as Lara Croft or the three witches in Charmed, candy to the eyes, kicking to the fore, are not too unpleasant a formula. Even Bollywood`s Phoolan Devi is a case in point.

Miriam Im sure just like these heroines you too are a knock-out. We guys, wanna see cat fights galore is it not T Ahmed Sul Temporal ? Visually electric knockouts.

Now we need our Desi women to crank up the soundtracks, storm into cardio-kickboxing classes at the gym, and hope that the even Sari-wearing Auntie ``jees`` can stop hatching marriage plots and start wielding a wicked uppercut.

Trot out female tigers upping the titillation factor with a healthy Chowk audience.

Avoid wardrobe malfunction

Kindly: No Barbie-doll spin-offs from the ``spoilt girls`` shelf.

Re: # 131 by ozerkhalid to miriamk

Dear Ozarkalid,

Your Hollywooded silly-coned lypo-ciphoned voyeuristic violent fantasies are truly...well, I`m not sure if one can call it impressive, but it`s some sort of ``sive``; especially with desi feline trapped in human babes....but where`s the other good ol` critical factor of the Holly, Bolly, & Lollywoody-woodpecker boob/ball buster hits - i.e. sex? Do you think a chick flick with kicks but no licks can bust the box office bimbo feats you list in your post?

Or are you implying that mere mention of desi women as ``tigresses`` provides your ilk an instantaneously climactic ecstasy with an uncontrollable gushing of the embarrassing kind? In that case, touche! Merely few A/BBCD retards will suffice to break Titanic records in revenues et al and prove Romairian claims (he knows which one I`m tawken `bout...hehehe) .... all at once ;-)~~

Please allow me to compliment your Renaissance-ish rendering of post-modern common knowledge that makes some chowkies wonder if you`re one of a jewellery set Shakespeare lost from his scrotum bag while skinny-dipping down Thames leaving him and his li`l ben dejected and lonely which probably conceived an impotent McBeth, tragic Hamlet, and herniated (remember the funny pants?) Romeo who couldn`t get as far as he wanted to with Juliette `cause she was probably more into her maids for vice and versa ;-)~~ (and hamid thought the my kind didn`t know diddly `bout such thangs....lol)

Just kidding mate...bu you need a bi` of lightenin` op, since moust hea dig the English language betta than ya expect from the desis.

No worries and chill out!


dalchawal bhai/behen...if I may humbly suggest, MakkhanDoubleRoti suits you better for a nickname.

FYI: you`re right that tahmed is not a bahh bahh sheep...he prefers to be called a mahh mahh goat...........

Sorry tahmed, honestly! It`s not my fault. dalchawal invited me to say it. But you`re still the best kinda goat....you know, kinda like the bloodhound in a recent WT cartoon. But if you`re angry, please express it in urdu...like ``hum naee kheltay..suchchi muchchi katti`` with a pinky flip

BTW, I just luuuuuuuuv your hop-sctoch bottom-patting with other sissies. It`s what keeps the chowk spinning and its real women jealously on toes with the newest trend of barrettes.

No offense ladies, these guys just say they`re feminists....just to borrow (and possibly steal) your ``accessories`` and cosmetics

rahulmal: what exactly are you suspicious of? that this is not ozer`s true name?? why is this so important to begin with? How do i know that your real name isnt Sri Mahareshchavalanapatnamavala rather than rahul mal? Why would I care?

please write something more intelligent. I know you can do it.

Re: # 128

``please write something more intelligent``

Tahmed Babu,

World is already reeling under the weight of your intelligence, nobody would complain if I fail to contribute 2 milligrams of grey matter :-)

Ozer,

Cheer up pal! As Tahmed Babu rightly pointed out it doesn`t matter to me whether you are an offspring of Chahmanas or Oguz, what you bring to the table is more important.

Re: # 128

T ahmed

Seems like Rahul Mal aka (Mahareshchavalanapatnamavala) casts himself in cloak and daggers and trots his horse indo the deeper green of the leafy glade inn. He has become the new self-appointed Robin Hood. Lo and Behold: maybe even the next Pink Panthered Inspecteur Clouseau. Earlier on he stated ``I will ezamine zee chowk webzite and raize every bit of suspicion with a beret and a baguette``.

Mahareshchavalanapatnamavala do us all a favour: go on top of the Eiffel Tower, for it beckons you, hold your breath, and take a leap and a jump. Who knows maybe Jacques Chirac, or even better, Laeticia Casta will be there to save your life ?

Ozer,

When I saw your UK Election article, I checked your profile...Ozer not being a very common name in the sub-continent. My first reaction was this guy is the self-proclaimed descendant of the Chahmanas - Mohd. Salim Chauhana. But I let go.

Now someone has expressed the same suspicion on this board and my curiosity has got the better of me. Are you :-)

Ozer #118 You tread on dangerous ground my friend, when you start matching yourself with historical figures. Dangerous, because you set yourself up as a perfect target to get bopped yet again by hamidm.

I am glad you take the point (even if with a pinch of salt), but your post shows no evidence of it. You ignore the fact that hamidm and others were criticizing you for writing (sorry, but there is no gentle way to put it) gibberish - not for some highfalutin` reasons like those applied to Heraclitus.

Anyway, enough said.

On Heraclitus: thanks to you (and google), I learnt a bit about this guy today. I like this quote from him, btw: ``The people [of a city] should fight for their laws as they would for their city wall. `` For us Pakistanis, whose constitutional laws have been breached more often in the past 50 years than the city walls of Jerusalem were breached over 5000 years, I can only sadly shake my head. Heraclitus does seem to have been an argumentative chap - he seemed to have a low opinion of human nature - and thus would have no doubt fit right into chowk.

Cheers.

Re: # 126

T Ahmed you inspiringly borrow from Heraclitus:

``The people [of a city] should fight for their laws as they would for their city wall. ``

Your interweaving Greek history and rendering a modern-day comparative analysis on Pakistan and Jerusalem is strikingly true. Regretabbly our laws are flagrantly raped by Chief Justice big-wigs mind-trapped in the Victorian ages, with brigadiers wearing badges symbolically saluting for their shallow power-grabbing schemas.

As Supreme Court Justice of India, Upendra Baxi, once proclaimed ``these men with long
purses`` serve only the platter of disservice to justice.

Justice is never served on a silver platter.

It is never given.

It must always be taken.

And then bestowed upon a populace.

Never with the sword.

Always with the mind.

ps: hamidm did you wonder when the other shoe will drop re: # 56?

there are ways of saying the same thing..here are two examples

animadvert

hamidm:

….the juxtaposition of ideals and ideas couched in a language that is fancy and esoteric serves a purpose…sometimes!…as does an idea expressed so simply that your heart leaps and you feel like embracing the writer…guess which one is easier?…at the same time it is not that difficult to take a simple chicken and create a dinosaur out of it...a simple idea or thought, baked in the oven at 375 degrees for 15 minutes…and out comes something that is perhaps just right…taste not guaranteed…appreciation dependent on the acquired tastes of the eater when the hunger is factored in…in my honest appraisal any noises ..read comments made here are misplaced…why?...this is only the first foray of the said writer here…let there be a body of work…let us see….if mother time and chowk editors permit us the luxury to animadvert …to see all the tools in the word cabinet used effectively….in terms of expression, fluidity, presentation, usage and comprehension…then one can make an educated guess…until then we need the intuition of a women that transcends logic….to utter the ordained words…where is sammi for crying out loud? rgds…t


animadvert

hamidm:

….the juxtaposition of ideals and ideas couched in a language that is fancy and esoteric serves a purpose…

sometimes!

…as does an idea expressed so simply that your heart leaps and you feel like embracing the writer…

guess which one is easier?

…at the same time it is not that difficult to take a simple chicken and create a dinosaur out of it

..a simple idea or thought, baked in the oven at 375 degrees for 15 minutes…and out comes something that is perhaps just right…taste not guaranteed…appreciation dependent on the acquired tastes of the eater when the hunger is factored in….

in my honest appraisal any noises ..read comments made here are misplaced…why?...this is only the first foray of the said writer here…let there be a body of work…let us see….if mother time and chowk editors permit us the luxury to animadvert …to see all the tools in the word cabinet used effectively….in terms of expression, fluidity, presentation, usage and comprehension…then one can make an educated guess…until then we need the intuition of a women that transcends logic….to utter the ordained words…

where is sammi for crying out loud?

rgds

t

Re: # 124

t,

okay, if ms sha says this masterpiece is for real, i will eat the crow - baked or unbaked - and apologize to heraclitus .......

p.s. that woman scares me and i hope she doesn`t show up! ...... the last time i tangled with her, she assigned me homework ........

Ozer:...Listen mate...it wasnt the varied use of metaphor that led me to make my prior statment...in fact it was quite easy to pick your critique of post modern society with all its incidental pecularities...point is..you might have overdone it ..and thus it has come off sounding quite pretentious to me...and a few others too it seems...nothing more..nothing less..perhaps a secondary more direct article on the specific reasons for the gradual emergence of some the factors that have led to this society could be an interesting enough read.

Re: # 116

Saj you constructively commented;

`` post modern society with all its incidental peculiarities``

That is interesting. Generally speaking, and not with specific reference to this article, what do you feel the incidental peculiarities of post-modern societies are ? Could you elucidate upon them ? for they are of great personal relevance/interest to me.

Furthermore you state;

``a more direct article on the specific reasons for the gradual emergence of some the factors that have led to this society could be an interesting enough read``

Saj,

In other words you are compelling me to expound on what has greased the wheels for an imbalanced punctured post-modern society ?

Fragrantly raped laws promulgated by Magistrates living in a Victorian era, switched-off mindsets utilising switched on technology to further their parochially diabolical interests. Financiers whose double-standards and promiscuity are as volatile as the unfettered stock markets.

Political impotence, barefaced aristocratic snobbery, unashamed male-hype for a “blingocracy” and all that glitters, unwarranted macho testosterone, gratuitous female lack of decisiveness in a consumption-addled social strata where status is worshipped and consumerism is its temple.

Alas this list incessantly goes on. The gist of this bewail has been re-cycled so many times which is why I thought let me present these travesties in a diverse light. As I commented earlier, if there are echoes of pomposity I do apologise for that was not the intent.

Ozer:
I am extremely sorry, but your 110 did not make any sense to me.

re. 112: Do you make extensive use of Microsoft Word Thesaurus?

Re: # 115

Ok one last attempt at explanation. Tourists get aroused, excited (therefore titillated) when they hear meaningless symbols like the tolling bells of the Big Ben.

Ozer: you seem like a decent chap, so let me try to give some friendly feedback.

1. No one likes criticism. You have presumably put in a good deal of time into writing this article, and so are understandably frustrated with the criticism.

2. Different people react differently to criticism. Some see it as an attack on themselves, others see it as an opportunity to learn something. Learn from the ancient Greeks - they used to PAY people to criticize their work (I am not kidding).

As for the 3rd world war and blood spilling all over chowk that you are threatening people with - I think you need to take it easy. As another chap (a writer like you, whom some call a Sheikh and others call a Pir and some call a Sheikhpir) had marked on his grave ``Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me``.

Come up with a second article that will have hamidm jump on his feet and applauding. And temporal doing backward flips with joy.

Re: # 114

T Ahmed

Point taken with granular pinches of salt. You raised interesting observations. I would like to expand on your comment regarding ancient Greece, and thread its relevance to this article:

No Greek philosopher born before Socrates was fired with more ingenuity than Heraclitus of Ephesus (today Efes in Turkey). The dawn of the 5th century BC, ignited a prose that made him proverbial for obscurity, I guess I have been tarred with that brush as well eh ?

Heraclitus criticized conventional opinions about the way things were and attacked the authority of slavishly following social norms of writing. I too have skinny-dipped into non-conformist forms of prose, which demur prone to criticism but hopefully immune from banality. I welcome criticism much like he did in the 5th century BC !!

His surviving work consists of more than 100 epigrammatic sentences, complete in themselves and often comparable to the proverbs characteristic of `wisdom` literature. Notwithstanding his sporadic presentation and transmission, much like my own !! Heraclitus` sentences comprise a philosophy that is clearly focused upon a determinate set of interlocking ideas- a sniper aimed at conventional modes of thought.

As interpreted by the later Greek philosophical tradition, Heraclitus stands primarily for the radical thesis that `Everything is in flux`, like the constant flow of a river. This organic mode of thought is in tandem with my inner belief sanctums.

Although Heraclitus took this thesis to be true, I feel that universal flux is too simple a phrase to identify his philosophy. His focus shifts continually between two perspectives – the objective and everlasting processes of nature on the one hand and ordinary human beliefs and values on the other.

He challenges people to come to terms, theoretically and practically, with the fact that they are living in a world with an ever-living fire kindling in measures and going out in measures`. The flames of which tear integrity. This in essence is the spirit of my article ``Dusk``.

T Ahmed

I, like any other author am not immune to criticism, in fact I relish it. In most disciplines the great truth is that `All things are one`, but I feel that this unity, should encompass difference, opposition and change. Though not malignantly scathing diatribe.

Change and ``constructive criticism`` enveloppes our universe as a continuous state of dynamic equilibrium.

Day and night,

Up and down,

Living and dying,

Heating and cooling

From ``Dusk`` till dawn

– such pairings of apparent opposites all conform to the everlastingly reverential formula (logos) that unity consists of opposites; remove day, and night goes too,

Just as a river will lose its identity if it ceases to flow.

fair and far
and far and fair
remember
thou are warned

anybody remembers johnny carson`s portrayal of the sage?... with a twinkle in his eyes johnny the sage would hold the envelope to his head and utter the answer...then his side-kick ed mcmahon would open the envelope and read the question?

so

the question would be....what is full of fury and hot air?

Re: # 113

Temporal

Iam unaware of the ``sage portrayal`` you allude to. However on a brief sejour to the land of ``liberty, stars and stripes`` I did catch a glimpse of Johnny Carson`s tonight show. What enthused me about Carson was his calm demeanour and unflappable nature. Carson habitually opens each show with a monologue, not as tongue-in-cheek as Jay Leno.

Carson should be a role-model for fellow ``Chowkies`` cause unlike Jerry Springer and Sally Jessy Raphael Carson tends to avoid anything controversial and was usually content to keep his audience ``productively`` amused.

A friend recently whispered into my ears that on his first ever show Carson was introduced by none other than Groucho Marx; Johnny`s first words, reacting to applause as he walked onstage for the first
time was

``Boy, you would think it was Vice President Nixon.``

cc: knock knock
t: kya baat hay?
cc: order bazookas, self propelled grendades, a battery or two of patriot missiles
t: heheh... kya baat hay? idhar aa rahi ho? oos say phir rooth gaee ho?
cc: it is not me...the assassins will be gunning for you?
t: samjha nahiN...assassins?
cc: ozer
t: oh woh...woh to writer-shiter hay shayad
cc: after hamidm and tahmed he will come for you...he mentions bloodbath.
t: oh...he is harmless...hehehe..this will be a first
cc: first?
t: haaN...we have had blood baths over zunn, zer, zameen even gods and prophets...never over creative writing
cc: why are you so calm?
t: arey pagli cyber-war is quite harmless
cc: woh kaisay?
t: there is no blood spilled...no lives lost...just some air let out
cc: shylockian;)...valve job?
t: sort of...worst comes to worst...pop-corn consumption would go up
cc: what flavour?
t: gtg....cya

Re: # 109

temporal if they say ``nay`` to peace then this will be one cinematic experience you will thoroughly enjoy nail-bitingly from the edge of your comfortable seat. Get that popcorn on the bunsen burner. Or just maybe if the ``gentlemen`` seek not to engage in crowd-pleasing mischief-making antics then you might plunge into a meaningfully pensive film. The WOW factor will certainly go amiss....but for the better...methinks....

Time is a revocable privilege

What does that mean? Even after taking into account the context, this does not make sensel. How is time a ``privilage``? How can this privilege be ``revoked``? Does the author mean that the time spent with the other person is a privilage? In that case how is it revocable?

Re: # 107

Instant Karma

Time is a ``revocable`` privilege for it is incessantly ticking like a biological clock. Time is never on our side.

It is a scarce commodity in the scheme of life.

A lifetime goes by and with the blink of an eye we grace the Afterworld (or re-incarnation) depending on subjective belief.

Time can be revoked since it can be taken away from us with the click of a finger. By our Creator. That we should not waste time was the message I was attempting to convey to all the shallow urbanites.

Dear Chowk Staff and fellow readers,

You all know that my interacts endeavour to be constructive, suggestive and meaningful. Despite avowed pleas for peace, if certain members on this forum do not bury the hatchet and persist under an ill-trodden path of animosity I will have to render them long-overdue type-lashings. You must excuse my errant ways. I do it not out of spite. Merely to pop over-inflated egos. ``And Im not speaking about anyone in particular``.

Being a skilled craftsman I deploy type-lashing merely as a last resort. Not as a first course of action. If and when necessity dictates I can be gleefully chirpy or ferociously venomous: I can urge healthy debate or smash stringless-puppets into smithereens. I hope their internal reasoning will propel them toward the path of common courtesy.

Once more Chowk staff and readers, despite my attempted diplomacy, if a blood-bath ensues, do forgive me. I was left with no other choice.

After all is not all fair in love and war ?

Tourists stir their souls with titillation at the ringing bells of Big Ben

What is the connection between ringing bells of big ben and titlation? You have to be a pervert to feel titillated by the sound of a bell (or is the bell tit shaped? that`d explain tit illation. (I dont know because I have never been anywhere outside India))

Re: # 104

Instant Karma

Cerain tourists who grace the greyer skies of London do so with unnecessary ``arousal``. For them every nanosecond or sound is akin to a ``Karmasutric`` experience, hence the reference to ``titillation``. Big Ben embodies an epicentre a powerful symbol like Buckingham Palace where touristic hollowness is portrayed with full-fledged mediocrity. Tourist jubilation is devoured in a degrading notion that every street in the West is paved with gold.

Aspirants coming from far afield litter cities with cheap snapshots and fake smiles, rather than appreciating a deeper cultural understanding of a metropolis. They worry more about the battery in their JVC handycams than savouring the moment itself. Hope this sheds light on why I used the word titilation with tinted sarcasm ?

My blood-red patience wears thinner than a bulimia-laden epidemic

How thin is a bulimia laden epidemic? Did the author mean anorexia laden epidemic? (Cause, you know, you`d think that bulimic people would tend to put on weight because of all that over eating while anorexic people would lose weight and grow thinner)

P.S. How do you measure thinness (or thickness) of an epidemic ?

freelance kindred spirits to unleash, uninhibited, uncensored deep-seated emotions/anger/passion/apathy through the prism of a lingua franca

Would the author be so kind as to explain the meaning of the phrase ``freelance kindered spirits``?

Re: # 102

Instant Karma

That would be independent thinkers trying to dot the canvass of literature somewhat creatively

poor Ozer thinks its safe to come out. Sticks his head out. And hamidm bops him on the head. One of Ozer`s incarnations sticks his head out to defend Ozer, and hamidm bops him on the head as well. Ozer waits a day or so, then sticks his head out hoping hamid is gone. And hamidm bops him again.

This board has become a califragilisticexpialidocious contextualized pedantricide. I think there is some international law against pedantricide.

Re: # 98

T ahmed

i will be popping onto this forum ubiquitously. if need be day in day out. i revel and bask in controversy. so my knives are sharpened.

To you as well I urge peace ?

If not be prepared for a royal world war 3.

Im no lightweight.

Do you want showmanship and arm-wrestling or peaceful understanding ?

If you chose peace I will drop the knives.

If you desire war then EVERY SINGLE interact of yours will be haunted and plagued by my criticism which could potentially pale you into annihilation. For as long as you are on Chowk.

This is not a threat. Just a plea.

Take your stand man.

Whats it gonna be ?

Re: # 98

tahmed:

califragilisticexpialidocious contextualized pedantricide

nice one soldier !

sigh .... here we go again - yet more silly attempts at obfuscation :

``This piece may come across as incomprehensible to yourself for it is steeped in metaphor`` ........ if nobody can decipher the metaphors then obviously they are garbage ...

``It can be interpreted from various angles`` ........ so, like the koran, this..... this ....is a divine masterpiece ? ......... likhay khuda, parhay musa (or is it the other way around)

``A most commonly held belief is that ``dusk`` is a lament vis-a-vis postmodern society and all its underpinnings``............. who are the people that hold this ``belief`` and why are they keeping it a secret ?

``Basically Im venting off my spleen with regards to urban living, its sheepish mandates and its ill-begotten actors. ``.......... now this is a doozy ! what the heck is a ``sheepish`` mandate and how are actors ``ill-begotten`` ........... just because you know a word doesn`t mean you have to use it wheter it means anything or not ...........

......... look, ozer mian, most of us went to tota-maina schools (even the resident jihadis ike echo, ntsyed and urstruly) so you should desist from trying to impress us with highfalutin language ...........

..... i am sorry if i sound mean-spirited ..........

Re: # 97

Hamid M

you state:

``i am sorry if i sound mean-spirited ``..........

Hamid I welcome constructive positive criticism, or even alternative suggestions/ideas/views from yourself or any other Chowkis. I would much rather you critique the content of the article from a literary/artistic/intellectual standpoint rather than turning this into a visceral vendetta.

I have no beef with you, and both of us sharing a similar South Asian background and being fellow ``Chowkis`` can find more endearingly diplomatic ways of airing our opinions rather than descending down the slippery slope of amateur and degrading tit-for-tat.

I joined Chowk to build bridges.

Not burn them.

The high-octane language and metaphors I use are a jibe at the ``chattering`` classes, ``arm-chair`` activists, a by-product of my style of writing. Which is freelance and prose. Delusions of pomposity need to be dismissed for that is not the intention of this author.

Now I am gently, purposefully and delicately calling for a peace truce ? For the sake of exercising magnanimity and to herald a more mature discourse. If on the other hand you letch onto the easiest form of slanderish critique then do expect reciprocity. The ball is in your court :

Are we gonna wave the white flag and settle this like grown-up gents or is it going to descend into mutual recrimination, which undoubtedly will hasten the belts for an ill-begotten blood-bath?

Now for a sterile juvenile audience a ``Gladiator`` style sword-flinging between us will be juicy...but for a more grown-up audience this will just render a meaningful debate into savagery.

I sincerely hope you take up the peace truce and we can move on to sanguine greener pastures. We might even notice similitude in ideas and gear up for a more intellectual Chowk following rather than engage in meaningless crowd-pleasing antics.

Hamid: The choice is yours.

The cards are on the table.

Truce or tyranny ?

I expect you will instinctively chose truce. For purposes of tact. If you desire peace I will bury the hatchet. If you chose vindictive behaviour I will retalliate in not too pleasant a manner.

Sometimes it takes a bigger man to endeavour a truce.

Im appealing to your conscience. I hope you take the right decision.

For both our sakes.

Let us see how the tides turn....

We do have a captive audience.

Miriam K

Very apt of you to bring up Allen Ginsberg’s “howl”. A truly inspirational poet. The poem`s plummeting hallucinatory style and the subsequent obscenity trial which it provoked, not too dissimilar to the venom being lashed out on this forum ! was an eye-opener to many a literary critic.

I am enamored by Ginsberg’s “howl” and its ability to communicate scenes, characters and situations drawn from his own experience, and the community of poets, artists, political radicals, drug addicts and psychiatric patients which he encountered.

Miriam “Howl” goes on to lament at the state of America, named as `Moloch` in the poem. In my soul there lurks a similar lament, especially for South Asia, which I see as such a cradle for potential and opportunity being misused, misplaced and misguided.

Ginsberg was inspired to write Part II of “Howl” when he saw a hotel as a monster he named Moloch during a “peyote” vision, and much of the section itself was written while under that same “peyote” influence.

Part III of howl is directly addressed to Carl Solomon, whom Ginsberg met whilst both were patients at Rockland, a psychiatric hospital, and relates shared experiences, hopes and fears.

Despite the ferocity of vindictive social critique against him, Miriam and fellow Chowkies witness the piercing depth of Ginsberg. When reading these parodied debut lines of Ginsberg I was merely in awe:

``I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the streets at dawn looking for an angry fix (Hamid M perhaps LOL !!!)

Ginsberg continues:
``……who lounged hungry and lonesome through Houston seeking jazz or sex or soup, and followed the brilliant Spaniard to converse about America and Eternity, a hopeless task, and so took ship to Africa …(Miriam you can tell that Ginsberg, has widely trotted the globe)

``who dreamt and made incarnate gaps in Time & Space through images juxtaposed, and trapped the archangel of the soul between 2 visual images and joined the elemental verbs and set the noun and dash of consciousness together jumping with sensations of Pater Omnipotens Aeterna Deus `` (note a gleaming spirituality in Ginsberg`s work).

Miriam what inspires you most about Ginsberg ?

from dictionary.com:

ped·ant·ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pdn-tr)
n. pl. ped·ant·ries
Pedantic attention to detail or rules.
An instance of pedantic behavior.
The habit of mind or manner characteristic of a pedant.

pedantry

n : a ostentatious and inappropriate display of learning

from sul at chowk.com:

Pedantry: simply the needlessly personal and offensive name calling. . .

--
close enough or no cigar? offensive name calling an inappropriate display of learning? or this word used in the context it was an inappropriate display of learning? greater things heaven and earth that are dreamt of in whose philosophy horatio?! (yes, i do know what the correct verse is, thank you)

Re: # 92

Saj,

This piece may come across as incomprehensible to yourself for it is steeped in metaphor. It is just my personal mode of committing thoughts to electronic format. It can be interpreted from various angles.

A most commonly held belief is that ``dusk`` is
a lament vis-a-vis postmodern society and all its underpinnings. An emblem of angst/depression weaved into a contradiction-laden world.

Basically Im venting off my spleen with regards to urban living, its sheepish mandates and its ill-begotten actors.

Dear Dear me...what a set of pedantic replies to a completely incomprehensible article. Me thinks all here, including the author can come up with better ways of expressing their creativity on Chowk.

sul #87 You were accusing hamidm of pedantry, which was surprising, so I asked you to look up the meaning of the word and provide an example. You surprised me even more by coming back with a totally incorrect definition, which clearly shows you did not know the meaning of the word you used. My advice to you was an honest one: dont use words unless you know what they mean.

You come back with another big word, saying I ``decontextualise`` everything, meaning that in the context you used the word ``pedantry`` it was OK!! Rest assured it was not - you simply used a big word without knowing what it meant.

At this point I give up. Have a nice day.

Re: # 89

No. You asked me for examples. I did not cut and paste but gave you a very simple reference. I did not give you the definition because I sought not to insult your intelligence.

And please try and follow the thread of the post. I did not accuse you of decontextualising anything. I was responding to hamidm2. You can carry on accusing me of not knowing what words mean. It may be true for others, but it does not apply to me.

I`m not on this website to debate the semantics and nuances of words, nor am I here to prove the range of vocabulary. So whilst I appreciate yor advice, I`m sorry to say you missed the mark. That said however, I revert to my former statement and say that this aimless quibbling of whose danda (Read: vocabulary) is bigger is the prime example of engaging in pedantry.

No matter how you or others respond, I have more important matters to which I must attend. This therefore is my last post on who said what. If anyone wants to debate the peice, and can do so without being vindictive or personal, I`ll be happy to respond. Otherwise, for those who think I use words that are too big for me to grasp: if it makes you sleep better at night, let that thought entertain you.

Good Day!

.......... i thought i`d summarize this gibberish for the chowk readership; here is my humble effort :

Big Ben
Usher
MartiKa
Nokia
Louis Vuitton
Enzo
Martini
Penn
Del Toro
Tsunami
Purple Haze
Blair
Ashes
Saville-Row
Bush
Mush
Mugabe
Oscar Wilde
Sloanie
Bruce Almighty
Chardonnay
Polaroid
Davidoffs
Houdini
Virginia Woolf

............ wow !!!......... this guy knows a lot of bovine excrement !

Re: # 83

hamidm,

I say this with all due respect but that is grossly unfair. You can perform that little trick with innumerable pieces of writing; prose or poetry. Especially so with poetry of the post-modern genre which is characterized by free verse.

I can certainly appreciate the spirit of your criticism but your method leaves something to be desired.

If you find this particular contribution so loathsome, instead of harassing the man why don`t you take the dignified route and write a pithy critique and post it on Chowk. Indeed the values the Arts and Letters inculcate demand nothing less. I for one would be interested in reading what you had to say given you presented it in a collected and rational manner.

Re: # 84

Miriam K

Very apt of you to bring up Allen Ginsberg’s “howl”. A truly inspirational poet. The poem`s plummeting hallucinatory style and the subsequent obscenity trial which it provoked, not too dissimilar to the venom being lashed out on this forum ! was an eye-opener to many a literary critic.

I am enamored by Ginsberg’s “howl” and its ability to communicate scenes, characters and situations drawn from his own experience, and the community of poets, artists, political radicals, drug addicts and psychiatric patients which he encountered.

Miriam “Howl” goes on to lament at the state of America, named as `Moloch` in the poem. In my soul there lurks a similar lament, especially for South Asia, which I see as such a cradle for potential and opportunity being misused, misplaced and misguided.

Ginsberg was inspired to write Part II of “Howl” when he saw a hotel as a monster he named Moloch during a “peyote” vision, and much of the section itself was written while under that same “peyote” influence.

Part III of howl is directly addressed to Carl Solomon, whom Ginsberg met whilst both were patients at Rockland, a psychiatric hospital, and relates shared experiences, hopes and fears.

Despite the ferocity of vindictive social critique against him, Miriam and fellow Chowkies witness the piercing depth of Ginsberg. When reading these parodied debut lines of Ginsberg I was merely in awe:

``I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the streets at dawn looking for an angry fix (Hamid M perhaps LOL !!!)

Ginsberg continues:
``……who lounged hungry and lonesome through Houston seeking jazz or sex or soup, and followed the brilliant Spaniard to converse about America and Eternity, a hopeless task, and so took ship to Africa …(Miriam you can tell that Ginsberg, has widely trotted the globe)

``who dreamt and made incarnate gaps in Time & Space through images juxtaposed, and trapped the archangel of the soul between 2 visual images and joined the elemental verbs and set the noun and dash of consciousness together jumping with sensations of Pater Omnipotens Aeterna Deus `` (note a gleaming spirituality in Ginsberg`s work).

Miriam what inspires you most about Ginsberg ?

Re: # 94

Ozer,

Glad to see you show up. Quite honestly Ozer the last time I was on Chowk was several years go but in the last couple of days I have scanned several forums and it seems the exchange of vitriol is commonplace. I happened upon Ms. Rizvi’s piece “Parents and the Pill” and thought it incisive and delightful but was dismayed to find the forum had taken quite an other turn.

As for what I find inspiring about Ginsberg. Well, I confess to not knowing much of the man but I am in awe of “Howl”. It is the english language at its’ most elemental and piercing. And yes that first sentence….to have that kind of perspicacity and then the ability to express it. A divine gift indeed!

Re: # 84

miriamk.

......... i wouldn`t know ``poetry of the post-modern genre`` if it fell on my head, but i do know bs when i step into it - there is a lot of that stuff out there being flung around by all sorts of dubious characters ..........

........... look, i don`t claim any expertise in ``the values of arts and letters`` since i studied more mundane, but less obtuse and more useful, stuff like calculus and hydraulics, but it really bothers me when some arted and lettered fella tries to take us poor folks for a ride - i am fighting for the rights of the common man ........ i have a suspicion - that is yet to be proven - that there are a lot of people who are getting away with bloody murder in the name of art ......... take that fellow picasso - a talented artist, no doubt - but i am sure that he was laughing all the way to the bank when he drew two lines that vaguely resembled a woman`s butt, craftily titled it femme, and everyone applauded ........ who says a fool is not born every minute of the day ! .........

........... i don`t find this particular ``contribution`` particularly loathsome, but it is a prime example of somone with delusions of literary grandeur trying to get away with it yet again .......... it is the sheer dishonesty of this...... this ..... evil enterprise that bothers the crap out of me !............ it is no different than slick corporate types rigging the markets to bilk the small investors, or con artists preying on eighty year old grandmothers .........

........... i like the thought of being a crusader for the truth for a few days until i can find a new cause .........



p.s. i just ordered harry frankfurt`s ``On Bullshit`` after seeing him on sixty minutes earlier this evening - it seems i am not the only one who thinks there is too much bs in the world ......... and all of us continue to contribute to this heap of offal ...........

Re: # 85

hamidm:

I think the contention on what qualifies as “good” art and what as “bad” art is interminable. It has existed since time immemorial and thank God for that. Where would a civilized society be without vigorous debate and dialogue.

Your allusion to Prof. Frankfurt’s thesis is quite apt to an extent. There are several works of “art” at MoMA, which have led me to impute more noteworthiness to my nephew’s refrigerator art.

However, as someone who has also studied (and is still doing so) “mundane” and “useful” things like calculus I have still managed to cultivate a reverence for art and literature. (I blame it on my dad really. His persistent dragging us to every museum in sight and inundating our home with the Classics was responsible). But the point being that the “Arts”are essential to the bedrock of any civilized society. And even though according to Prof. Frankfurt (and others) there has been an explosion of b.s in recent times, I would rather have the b.s to sift through then silence the much cherished ideal of freedom of expression.

There is something to be said about the popular quotation: “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”.

And on a parenthetical note may I add that If I ever have pots that need a stirring I will
be sure to call upon you. You do a commendably amusing job of it in spite of the misguided brusqueness :).

Re: # 106

Miriam K

You verbalize ``I would rather have the b.s to sift through then silence the much cherished ideal of freedom of expression``. This is a tellingly wholesome world-view.

More so, you articulate “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”.

This is by the startling French philosopher Voltaire [François Marie Arouet] (1694–1778). One of my all-time fave quotes !

Re: # 106

Miriam K

Professor Harry Frankfurt ingeniously pontifies `` BS has no actual relationship with the truth or falsity of the statements at all. Unlike lies, which depend on a construct of truth to succeed, BS stands aside from any objective thought of unreality and becomes, he says, a tool for asserting sincerity``. Miriam in other words what seems like BS to some is sincerity to others !!! It is all premised on value-judgments is it not ?

Re: # 85

hamidm...you and I have more in common in than either of probably thought we did. :-)~~

Phir bhi...is ko bachcha samajh k chhor do yaar. ab to becharay ki bolti bund hai.....lol

sul #811 :Pedentry means ``needlessly personal and offensive name calling``!!!?? puhleeeese!! dont use words unless you know what they mean - go look up the dictionary and dont dare write another post on chowk until you have done that.

Jesus S. Christ!! I new we pakistanis were bloody incompetent. but this is disgusting!!

Re: # 82

You decontextualise everything to suit your narrow minded intent! I was not explaining the meaning of pedantry (and try and spell it properly!) to tahmed32, but merely refering to examples of it: your crass responses.

You really have a lot of issues. Stop overcompensating and villifying. It makes you look the smaller man. You did not respond to the substance of my last post to you, but tried to get in a cheap shot. Seriously, you`re like an Iraqi scud: noisy and off target.

So here`s me giving you a clue. Get a dictionary. Look up the world personable. Then look up the word magnanimous. Understand them. Embrace their meaning. Only then come back to chowk. Oh and read this too: http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00005040&channel=chaathouse

tahmed32

Re# 71

Pedantry: simply the needlessly personal and offensive name calling. I admit I took such umbrage I myself engaged in it somewhat.

amrita

Re# 75

Just to be clear. I have been a member for more than two years and am no one`s alter ego. I`ve enough personalities of my own to keep me busy.