Dusk

tahmed32

Re# 71

Pedantry: simply the needlessly personal and offensive name calling. I admit I took such umbrage I myself engaged in it somewhat.

amrita

Re# 75

Just to be clear. I have been a member for more than two years and am no one`s alter ego. I`ve enough personalities of my own to keep me busy.


hamidm2

Re# 73

Pls refer to above answer to Amrita. I can understand that Ozer`s style is not for everyone, but if you had expressed yourself with the tact and grace that Amrita did, your point would have reverberated. ``Lets all try and get along``.

sul #811 :Pedentry means ``needlessly personal and offensive name calling``!!!?? puhleeeese!! dont use words unless you know what they mean - go look up the dictionary and dont dare write another post on chowk until you have done that.

Jesus S. Christ!! I new we pakistanis were bloody incompetent. but this is disgusting!!

.......... i thought i`d summarize this gibberish for the chowk readership; here is my humble effort :

Big Ben
Usher
MartiKa
Nokia
Louis Vuitton
Enzo
Martini
Penn
Del Toro
Tsunami
Purple Haze
Blair
Ashes
Saville-Row
Bush
Mush
Mugabe
Oscar Wilde
Sloanie
Bruce Almighty
Chardonnay
Polaroid
Davidoffs
Houdini
Virginia Woolf

............ wow !!!......... this guy knows a lot of bovine excrement !

Re: # 83

hamidm,

I say this with all due respect but that is grossly unfair. You can perform that little trick with innumerable pieces of writing; prose or poetry. Especially so with poetry of the post-modern genre which is characterized by free verse.

I can certainly appreciate the spirit of your criticism but your method leaves something to be desired.

If you find this particular contribution so loathsome, instead of harassing the man why don`t you take the dignified route and write a pithy critique and post it on Chowk. Indeed the values the Arts and Letters inculcate demand nothing less. I for one would be interested in reading what you had to say given you presented it in a collected and rational manner.

Re: # 84

miriamk.

......... i wouldn`t know ``poetry of the post-modern genre`` if it fell on my head, but i do know bs when i step into it - there is a lot of that stuff out there being flung around by all sorts of dubious characters ..........

........... look, i don`t claim any expertise in ``the values of arts and letters`` since i studied more mundane, but less obtuse and more useful, stuff like calculus and hydraulics, but it really bothers me when some arted and lettered fella tries to take us poor folks for a ride - i am fighting for the rights of the common man ........ i have a suspicion - that is yet to be proven - that there are a lot of people who are getting away with bloody murder in the name of art ......... take that fellow picasso - a talented artist, no doubt - but i am sure that he was laughing all the way to the bank when he drew two lines that vaguely resembled a woman`s butt, craftily titled it femme, and everyone applauded ........ who says a fool is not born every minute of the day ! .........

........... i don`t find this particular ``contribution`` particularly loathsome, but it is a prime example of somone with delusions of literary grandeur trying to get away with it yet again .......... it is the sheer dishonesty of this...... this ..... evil enterprise that bothers the crap out of me !............ it is no different than slick corporate types rigging the markets to bilk the small investors, or con artists preying on eighty year old grandmothers .........

........... i like the thought of being a crusader for the truth for a few days until i can find a new cause .........



p.s. i just ordered harry frankfurt`s ``On Bullshit`` after seeing him on sixty minutes earlier this evening - it seems i am not the only one who thinks there is too much bs in the world ......... and all of us continue to contribute to this heap of offal ...........

Re: # 74

temporarily temporal...

read the response on the same board! Feel free to cut/paste across the boards, but do it with both of our posts if you have a shred fairness (although I doubt it).

Re: # 82

You decontextualise everything to suit your narrow minded intent! I was not explaining the meaning of pedantry (and try and spell it properly!) to tahmed32, but merely refering to examples of it: your crass responses.

You really have a lot of issues. Stop overcompensating and villifying. It makes you look the smaller man. You did not respond to the substance of my last post to you, but tried to get in a cheap shot. Seriously, you`re like an Iraqi scud: noisy and off target.

So here`s me giving you a clue. Get a dictionary. Look up the world personable. Then look up the word magnanimous. Understand them. Embrace their meaning. Only then come back to chowk. Oh and read this too: http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00005040&channel=chaathouse

Re: # 85

hamidm...you and I have more in common in than either of probably thought we did. :-)~~

Phir bhi...is ko bachcha samajh k chhor do yaar. ab to becharay ki bolti bund hai.....lol

sul #87 You were accusing hamidm of pedantry, which was surprising, so I asked you to look up the meaning of the word and provide an example. You surprised me even more by coming back with a totally incorrect definition, which clearly shows you did not know the meaning of the word you used. My advice to you was an honest one: dont use words unless you know what they mean.

You come back with another big word, saying I ``decontextualise`` everything, meaning that in the context you used the word ``pedantry`` it was OK!! Rest assured it was not - you simply used a big word without knowing what it meant.

At this point I give up. Have a nice day.

Re: # 89

No. You asked me for examples. I did not cut and paste but gave you a very simple reference. I did not give you the definition because I sought not to insult your intelligence.

And please try and follow the thread of the post. I did not accuse you of decontextualising anything. I was responding to hamidm2. You can carry on accusing me of not knowing what words mean. It may be true for others, but it does not apply to me.

I`m not on this website to debate the semantics and nuances of words, nor am I here to prove the range of vocabulary. So whilst I appreciate yor advice, I`m sorry to say you missed the mark. That said however, I revert to my former statement and say that this aimless quibbling of whose danda (Read: vocabulary) is bigger is the prime example of engaging in pedantry.

No matter how you or others respond, I have more important matters to which I must attend. This therefore is my last post on who said what. If anyone wants to debate the peice, and can do so without being vindictive or personal, I`ll be happy to respond. Otherwise, for those who think I use words that are too big for me to grasp: if it makes you sleep better at night, let that thought entertain you.

Good Day!

Dear Dear me...what a set of pedantic replies to a completely incomprehensible article. Me thinks all here, including the author can come up with better ways of expressing their creativity on Chowk.

from dictionary.com:

ped·ant·ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pdn-tr)
n. pl. ped·ant·ries
Pedantic attention to detail or rules.
An instance of pedantic behavior.
The habit of mind or manner characteristic of a pedant.

pedantry

n : a ostentatious and inappropriate display of learning

from sul at chowk.com:

Pedantry: simply the needlessly personal and offensive name calling. . .

--
close enough or no cigar? offensive name calling an inappropriate display of learning? or this word used in the context it was an inappropriate display of learning? greater things heaven and earth that are dreamt of in whose philosophy horatio?! (yes, i do know what the correct verse is, thank you)

Miriam K

Very apt of you to bring up Allen Ginsberg’s “howl”. A truly inspirational poet. The poem`s plummeting hallucinatory style and the subsequent obscenity trial which it provoked, not too dissimilar to the venom being lashed out on this forum ! was an eye-opener to many a literary critic.

I am enamored by Ginsberg’s “howl” and its ability to communicate scenes, characters and situations drawn from his own experience, and the community of poets, artists, political radicals, drug addicts and psychiatric patients which he encountered.

Miriam “Howl” goes on to lament at the state of America, named as `Moloch` in the poem. In my soul there lurks a similar lament, especially for South Asia, which I see as such a cradle for potential and opportunity being misused, misplaced and misguided.

Ginsberg was inspired to write Part II of “Howl” when he saw a hotel as a monster he named Moloch during a “peyote” vision, and much of the section itself was written while under that same “peyote” influence.

Part III of howl is directly addressed to Carl Solomon, whom Ginsberg met whilst both were patients at Rockland, a psychiatric hospital, and relates shared experiences, hopes and fears.

Despite the ferocity of vindictive social critique against him, Miriam and fellow Chowkies witness the piercing depth of Ginsberg. When reading these parodied debut lines of Ginsberg I was merely in awe:

``I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the streets at dawn looking for an angry fix (Hamid M perhaps LOL !!!)

Ginsberg continues:
``……who lounged hungry and lonesome through Houston seeking jazz or sex or soup, and followed the brilliant Spaniard to converse about America and Eternity, a hopeless task, and so took ship to Africa …(Miriam you can tell that Ginsberg, has widely trotted the globe)

``who dreamt and made incarnate gaps in Time & Space through images juxtaposed, and trapped the archangel of the soul between 2 visual images and joined the elemental verbs and set the noun and dash of consciousness together jumping with sensations of Pater Omnipotens Aeterna Deus `` (note a gleaming spirituality in Ginsberg`s work).

Miriam what inspires you most about Ginsberg ?

Re: # 84

Miriam K

Very apt of you to bring up Allen Ginsberg’s “howl”. A truly inspirational poet. The poem`s plummeting hallucinatory style and the subsequent obscenity trial which it provoked, not too dissimilar to the venom being lashed out on this forum ! was an eye-opener to many a literary critic.

I am enamored by Ginsberg’s “howl” and its ability to communicate scenes, characters and situations drawn from his own experience, and the community of poets, artists, political radicals, drug addicts and psychiatric patients which he encountered.

Miriam “Howl” goes on to lament at the state of America, named as `Moloch` in the poem. In my soul there lurks a similar lament, especially for South Asia, which I see as such a cradle for potential and opportunity being misused, misplaced and misguided.

Ginsberg was inspired to write Part II of “Howl” when he saw a hotel as a monster he named Moloch during a “peyote” vision, and much of the section itself was written while under that same “peyote” influence.

Part III of howl is directly addressed to Carl Solomon, whom Ginsberg met whilst both were patients at Rockland, a psychiatric hospital, and relates shared experiences, hopes and fears.

Despite the ferocity of vindictive social critique against him, Miriam and fellow Chowkies witness the piercing depth of Ginsberg. When reading these parodied debut lines of Ginsberg I was merely in awe:

``I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the streets at dawn looking for an angry fix (Hamid M perhaps LOL !!!)

Ginsberg continues:
``……who lounged hungry and lonesome through Houston seeking jazz or sex or soup, and followed the brilliant Spaniard to converse about America and Eternity, a hopeless task, and so took ship to Africa …(Miriam you can tell that Ginsberg, has widely trotted the globe)

``who dreamt and made incarnate gaps in Time & Space through images juxtaposed, and trapped the archangel of the soul between 2 visual images and joined the elemental verbs and set the noun and dash of consciousness together jumping with sensations of Pater Omnipotens Aeterna Deus `` (note a gleaming spirituality in Ginsberg`s work).

Miriam what inspires you most about Ginsberg ?

Re: # 75

Amrita

You type:

``I am one of those people who liked your effort. Isnt it brave of me to turn up? :)

Given the ``toothless`` predators here you are a valiant crusader indeed LOL !!

``I thought it had great rhythm, flowed well and had a certain novelty to it - I dont see too many prose poems on this site. Your appetite for language was also very apparent and you definitely have a voice``.

Amrita, what enamours me about prose is that it allows freelance kindred spirits to unleash, uninhibited, uncensored deep-seated emotions/anger/passion/apathy through the prism of a lingua franca: I do concur with you that language often devours us in our own trappings yet it is all we can rely on. If only I could truly pin down into words what ravages my heart....

You observe `` you depend too much on metaphor. Some of it is well done, but there are spaces where you appear to have fallen in love with the voice or caught up too much in the excitement of the work to pay attention``

Amrita, if you get the chance look up Umberto Eco`s ``The Name of the Rose`` and how Eco depicts language as a trapping and cultural confinement.

Gracias for your post. At least your observations/critique were of an enlighteningly well educated genre.

Re: # 92

Saj,

This piece may come across as incomprehensible to yourself for it is steeped in metaphor. It is just my personal mode of committing thoughts to electronic format. It can be interpreted from various angles.

A most commonly held belief is that ``dusk`` is
a lament vis-a-vis postmodern society and all its underpinnings. An emblem of angst/depression weaved into a contradiction-laden world.

Basically Im venting off my spleen with regards to urban living, its sheepish mandates and its ill-begotten actors.