Adultery Anonymous

Re: # 32

DM - let me play devil`s advocate here. Is it in the greater interest to consign oneself to an unhappy marriage that sees, say, daily screaming matches, indifference, children who become pawns, etc or is it better to cut the chord once and for all and grab your chance at love when it comes up knowing that this might be your one chance to become a happier and perhaps kinder person in the process?

Children are undoubtedly the worst sufferers of their parents` adultery which leads to broken homes.Maximum patients of serious psychiatric illnesses, drug/alcohol dependence
and deliberate self harm come from broken families.

Ferzana,

Last year one of my desi friends got divorced due to adultery. He was married to a wonderful woman and had a 4 year old daughter. He started having an affair with a gori girl at work and eventually moved in with her after abandoning his family. I could observe first hand the incredible pain inflicted on his family. His wife was almost suicidal and went into a deep depression. Her parents had to come over from India to support her emotionally. The impact on the kid was even worse. She became totally quiet and withdrawn. Basically the lives of 2 people were almost completely ruined.

You know what his wife told us? She said that if he had died in a car accident or from a disease or even just divorced her due to some incompatibility, it would not have been as painful as being betrayed and abandoned for another woman. Adultery has devastating effects. Let us not try to sugercoat this ugly aspect of human behavior.

The fact of the matter is that marriage is hard work, no matter who you are married to. Even the most lovey-dovey couples fight and get bitter at each other. In a marriage, you can only get back proportional to what you put in. If you take the effort to be loving and caring, and bringing in romantic sizzle in your marriage, there is a good chance that you will get some of that in return. If you make no effort and imagine that things will happen by themselves, then your marriage will go downhill.

As far as the other party is concerned, there is alway temptation in this world. But life is all about making choices and paying the price. For example, my 5 year old son is the apple of my eye. I can never imagine doing something to lose him. So, I take deliberate care not to let any situation get out of hand. I refuse to have one on one lunch with female coworkers. I will alwys invite someone else to come with us. When I travel with mixed company, I try not to drink the previous evening, etc.

Dear Farzana:

I think you just liked the name ``adultry anonymous`` and just named it. BTW, is this how you run your personal life too? You don`t need to answer the last question.

Anil

Re: # 29
Have been going through the whole buffoonry of interactioins here. But this one beats all. I am not holding Farzana`s brief here. But whether she is, or not. Whose business is it. Sickening!

Naqsh (#20),

I am all for concubines ... do you have a sister who might be interested ...?

... you could argue on basis of a technicality that sattar is really not a muslim ... but then you must admit that your local imam is. So what’s the answer?

Heck, I used to be crazy about the concept of weekend muttah … but you have one-upped it by this concubine thing … gotta love Islam. Let me ask then … does paying a prostitute count as zakaat?

First, I think adultery is a strong word with religious connotations. Second, this is a not a society, culture or even a home breaking issue. Even in the Western society where cheating and two timing are now common phrases, a miniscule portion of the society is impacted by it. My suspicion is that in the US, it is more of an ego or a slight issue than a home breaking or relationship breaking issue. At least the West has moved beyond the garbage notions of honor, Izzat and Ghairat of the tribal or feudal societies of the subcontinent.
In the ancient societies, the “Evil” was created for people to understand the “Good”. God has Satan good behavior has bad behavior. Every prophet (good) had an enemy (Evil).Every good king had a bad king. The tradition followed in the literature and the concept of good and evil was promoted. The ignoramus whole-heartedly bought the whole enchilada. The Shakespeares of every literature excelled in creating good and evil character and writers from the feudal and tribal eras confirmed that the adultery is an evil concept. (In the ancient societies, women were actually considered evil or why would men place so many restrictions on them?)
I don’t know when the institution of Marriage or monogamous relationship took hold of the society but adultery became the evil part of the good deed (marriage).
Animals have no concept of monogamous relations and they don’t raise kids together. Human are just an extension of animals. So the concept of monogamy is forced on human. If marriage is natural then adultery is also natural.

With that preamble, adultery had taken an entirely new meaning in the 20th century. Before that, creating secure environment for the fair sex was the fundamental objective of the society. Feudal and tribal societies still put a premium on that. In Pakistan the progress of the country was halted to protect “Chadar and Chardewari”( what non sense). In the name of protection, tribal societies invented Pardeh, Hijab, dupatta, full sleeves and 20 layers of clothing. The husbands were even placing objects physically to save women from the evil designs of the fellow men.
With this protection came ignorance. Women were not able to see outside, men found enjoyment in unprotected women.
Too many details in the adultery stuff but in nutshell, those who cannot provide protection don’t delve too much on adultery. A poor men or women’s concept of adultery is entirely different from the protectors and the protected of the better off classes. A poor person’s wife is only economically protected-that too barely. She lives with her husband’s adultery. A poor man has more tolerance for his wife’s adultery than a middleclass person who provides more protection.
In the West, where both men and women have moved beyond protection, cheating and two timings are just some issues to deal with in a relationship. If you feel strongly, end the relationship or you get back. Those who do need protection live with it like their counterparts in the Subcontinent.
It will take a long time for the newly liberated city dwelling subcontinent women to understand that they can get back if they can live without protection.

Personally, I think Sex is just an emotion. Some control their emotions well and some don’t. People just have to understand it as a human emotion like crying, laughing, and fighting etc. You cry, laugh and fight with several people. Why can’t you have sex with several people?

Re: # 27

Not just an emotion. IT IS THE FOOD OF LOVE(emotionally). apetite, hunger (physically) SEX that`s what it is. It has it`s own dimensions.

Both man and woman are naturally polygamous. In case of woman, it is insecurity instilled in her, which brings on the veil of a monogamous nature. Man has always used his physical power to put woman in servitude. What is adultry, anyway? The fear or hate of the other woman is one more example how man has made woman his `slave`. Woman against woman. Great. We all need to revisit Marx.

Morality or morals are beyond trivialities of sex and alcohol. But the MULLAH would of course always be one up. For us it begins and ends in both.

Does any one here believe in the ``rule of harm``?

How long can a man go on eating ``murghi`` day in and day out; for that amtter how long can a woman be made to eat a ``mugha``, for the rest of her life.

Re: # 27

Excuse me dear HP you are blatantly wrong when you say ``Animals have no concept of monogamous relations and they don’t raise kids together. Human are just an extension of animals. So the concept of monogamy is forced on human. If marriage is natural then adultery is also natural``.

It is wrong to make such a sweeping generalization about sexual relations. Some of the animals especialy the birds do have monogamous relations and they raise their kids together. Have you not kept the pigions and seen both father and mother feeding their kids? In fact the kids of the most of the animals do not need parental care as the human kids do. And many of the humans do have genuine monogamous fixatin which may sometimes be broken by sex. This is a very tricky question indeed especially for the humans who think and moralize with a religious tinge. Otherwise, sex is almighty life force which has its own laws.

From Psychiatric/Psychological perspective,persons with certain personality traits are more prone to become unfaithful e.g. people with antisocial traits have little respect for societal norms or ethics and they feel little or no guilt about breaking the norms and they have problems in other areas of life also.Others are those who are called ``unstable`` or ``borderline`` personalities,who start feeling bored very easily in any situation.Also they are very high on sensation seeking and keep experimenting with various things including drugs,extra-marital relations,risky activities etc.Third category is of Narsissistic personalities who live for only themselves and have no regards for others` needs and emotions.They can exploit any relation to suit their need of self agrandizement and bragging about their achievements.They use other people as tools.In all these categories,extra-marital relatios are usually short lasting and rarely have equal reciprocaton from both sides and sex is the major attraction.
Having said this,there are bilaterally reciprocated relations as well where unmet dependency needs are the main reason and sex does not play important part-the so called Plutonic relationships.

Re: # 26
You don`t respond like a professional psychiatrist, though you may talk about the psychiatrist`s perspective - your response is more like that of the traditional S. Asian who knows a bit of the jargon. Adultery does cause a good deal of grief and unhappiness, breaks up homes, etc., etc., but it isn`t really a psychological aberration or a psychiatric condition as you try to make out!

Are you sure you`re really a psychiatrist?

Adultery isn`t something people get into just because of the problems/conditions you talk about. And it often causes as much anguish and pain to the perpetrators of adultery as to the victims of the adulterer. Surely Farzana`s point is that it could happen to anybody. Morality/religion/social conditioning apart.

Re: # 51
Why are you so upset about my response?Have you read my earlier interact also?(#19)

I dont know how you inferred that I am trying to categorize adultery as psychiatric condition. I wanted to convey that adultery is not a homogenous entity.Saying that``it can happen to any one`` is overgeneralization and very much layman like response with strong element of denial and avoidance. Yes,everybody can get into a situation which can lead to adultery but does everyone of them become adulterous?Some are able to exercise control,while others are not--will there be some differences in these two types of people or not?

Can you equate theft of a piece of bread by a hungry person living on street to income tax theft by a millionairre?

No need to get personal since we dont know each other and are talking about just a phenomenon and are free to express our views.

Re: # 54
No, I hadn`t read your earlier interact, actually (#19) - that seems to be a normal, sensible one. I really should have read that one too before going through this one, certainly.
And I wasn`t being personal, only pointing out that your views in that particular (later) interact seemed to be completely unscientific and non-medical. Read your own interact again to see why I interpreted your comments in the way I did. My point is that it`s being simplistic to attribute psychiatric causes to the fact that some persons commit adultery in situations where other persons can avoid that. Of course you are free to air your views - we all are - it`s only because you`re a psychiatrist that I responded to your views. There are several other interactors whose ideas/attitudes might seem quite reprehensible/oddball/whatever, but one expects a psychiatrist, who`s a medical specialist, to be a little more circumspect. Of course, it`s also wrong to expect a psychiatrist to be politically correct all the time - he`s also human, with his own prejudices, biases, etc.

Farzana - ``There are more moral arguments against adultery than practical ones.`` true. especially when marriage is a business like affair entered into with a clear sense of things attained and things adjusted.

Farzana,
good article.
Makes me wonder why adultery happens.
Unsatisfied emotional and physical needs or lack of understanding between a couple which makes a person find happiness elsewhere?.
I believe sex outside marriage is more difficult for women than men. For men it may be satisfaction of their carnal desires but for a woman it may be trying to find her self and her self worth by indulging in such a relationship. It is a complex issue which requires a deeper understanding of marital relations to understand adultery.

One of the best discourses, I have read. Farzana Versey, my hats off to you, and a bow in respect of such a lucid, but potent article. One can only pray that these matters of reality may be taken in the spirit in which you have so beautifuuly brought out. What can, however, be done to resolve the issues with the confused moralists of our socities. As I was reading your article, I could quite vividly imagine what Lord Wolfenden would have gone through, while proposing opening up the British society in 1959. Not so much related to your theme but the issue of `sexuality` in its own context.

Keep it up Farzana, you are needed. You belong to that breed of individualists, who are a necessary componant, for a healthy debate, in pursuing a more tolerant, a more compassionate, a little more liberal social system, away from the claws of self imposed moralists.

What you have put in doesn`t just apply to a woman, but as you wrote wo/man eqwually.