2005 UK General Elections

ozerkhalid #46

`` Of course you would not dream of giving an iota of importance to the thousands of innocent Iraqi mothers and children getting pillaged and slaughtered by foreign troops?
Surely more than a “tinge” of neo-fascism on your part amigo? ``

As a matter of principle I do not like the US invasion of Iraq. However it is hard for me to vigorously protest against acts of ommission by US troops when I looked the other way for most of Saddam`s 25 year rule. I can see why Americans do not want their citizens to die in Iraq and spend their hard earned dollars on the war. I fail to see why British Muslims would be so agitated to vote against Blair for the Iraq war.

Re ALL who wrote to my points:.....Yes Syke and few others....thats exactly correct....we`re talking 4% in a 50 mill nation..its still a tiny amount, and honestly the community as whole regardless of faith is still facing some of challenges they have have had to deal with since their initial arrival in the late 50s....namely..equality in the housing and job markets..access to decent public education...and adequete minority representation in parliment. This fractionalization of the community along faith and communal lines does nothing for all parties. Honestly about half the 2.2 million asians are muslim...another 30% is hindu and the remainder mainl sikh..with maybe a few christians. Just look at the numbers then..it becomes quite pathetic for each individual sub-community if they try work on their own for political gains. Pakistani and Kashmiri muslims breaking away for a pan-islamist identity with other muslims..just does not make sense. Honestly speaking what genuine cohesivness could there be in community interests of areas of large arab populations in london;s west end...edgeware road..knightsbridge and all...and the Pakistani community of north Manchester. Anger over the war in Iraq is perfectly justifiable and voting against an individual who led the nation to that war is a perfectly acceptable democratic right. The problem is when..for example BBC World ran a program just before election night on the election candidates in Blackburn (which has a 25% muslim population). There was the anti labour British Pakistani candidate who was unabashedly running against the labour incumbent Jack Staw on a rigid SINGULAR main issue of Iraq.....that cannot be a cohesive strategy for the Asian community in Britain..honestly..at one point or another 2 million people marched against the war...so u imagine how many more silent anti-war supporters..do the math..the anti-war movement had large support among Labour and Liberal Dem voters...white..black..asian..christian..muslim..hindu...whatever...the main point that the anti-war movement was largely not a simple muslim led religious based movement and should not be painted as one. On the other hand of more than a few muslim British Asian community leaders..faith leaders and politicians to paint it exactly as a ``war on islam`` and so forth was far too opportunisitic and it seems clearly that there was much sheepish voting by members of the said community on these lines. Now as some others have noted..what could be solutions...honestly I think there has to be far greater communication and interaction between all these community...faith leaders and politicans among British muslims..hindus and sikhs..to bring the overall political framework on the vast majority of issues if NOT ALL....improvement s housing..education..job access...and removing the still lingering racism that clearly exists in these areas of ALL asians regardless of faith and community...certain foreign policy issues will always divide communities to an extent...it is less likely for British hindus to get worked up over the religious angle in Iraq...similarily for British muslims over say the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan...the point is ultimately elections and life is generally about so called bread and butter issues that I have mentioned above..these are what fundamentally impact day to day life for a british asian living in manchester..london..wherever..and on all these issues..there is great commonality that all British Asians face regardless of faith and community...far greater commonality than say like I said between the predominant British Pakistani community in Manchester and northern England and the large relatively wealthy arab community in West London...Both of the latter may be muslims...but believe any British asian knows from the history of the entire community..from the 1950s..the challenges of british sikhs in southall and british pakistani muslims in manchester are always gonna be more similar than the lebanese community around edgeware road. Also just in case some steps in and says the British Indian community clearly outperforms the British Pakistani community as seen by comparitive GCSE results etc shownb by BBC..that is largely true..but you also have to understand that a large part of the British Indian community`s success comes from the specific Gujarati community that migrated from Uganda in the 1970s..so called African Asians...this community was largely rich..highly educated community .very very very different from the majority of the classical Indian community that came since the 1950s..(not including all this South Indian nurses/doctors lot that have come in the last 5-7 years)....the latter would be far closer to the British Pakistani migrants in terms of educational and occupational background...and also in current educational standards. Anyways coming back to point...all I can say is that inspite of differences such as Iraq..there is far far clearly more that unites all british asians on real domestic issues that are gonna affect 99% of their daily lives..and it is high time leaders saw that.

#84 by Zakkk on May 10, 2005 5:02pm PT


Tell me Arjun..what do you think of Irish Americans who supported the IRA?


Were they behind as an ethnic group and still voting on that one issue? If they were, they were no less stupid than the brit-pakis....


Or tell me how many people of Indian descent non Sikhs demonstrated when the Sikhs were getting massacred after Indira Gandhis gov?


People who vote based on pan-Islamist causes and then try to pass it off as a vote on humatarian grounds have something to prove.....not Indians....

It`s your contention that the voting based on the war in Iraq was based on humantarian grounds and not pan-islamism...so the burden is on you to show that your humanitarian concerns apply to all cases and not just cases in which non-muslims are fighting muslims...If you had protested the atrocities of the saddam regime half as loudly as the war in Iraq, you`d have a point...



wrong with being an idealogue who believes Islam is the root of all evil


Aww..you poor picked-upon muslim you....

search through my posts...find one post where I thought the war in iraq(in which a bunch of muslims were killed) was a good idea...in case you need help in searching through my posts, let me know and i`ll help you....

Tell me Arjun..what do you think of Irish Americans who supported the IRA?

Or tell me how many people of Indian descent non Sikhs demonstrated when the Sikhs were getting massacred after Indira Gandhis gov?

Your gross generalisations and gross simplifications are those of an idealogue..there is nothing wrong with being an idealogue who believes Islam is the root of all evil (closely followed by Pakistanis)...to your credit though you probably know more about Pakistan & Islam then most Pakistanis ...it`s a shame it`s such a prejudiced view though...

Re: # 75

Ozer

Thanks for the invite.I might do just that.My cousin lives in London, so i have a place to stay, and he has a house in Manchester too.Manchester has improved a lot, even from seven years ago.I remember it as a dreary place when i was a kid.I love the scenery in the UK, especially the lake district and Scotland.I`m going to Gangtok, Sikkim for a week`s vacation, en famille, to escape summer a little bit.I wouldn`t be surprised if the hotel room is wired for the internet,( even in the Himalayas) so i can still rant and rave on this site and get my daily dosage of porn.India is all `IT` and wired everywhere.Even the fruit vendor calls you from his cell phone , before he comes over to the home!!.Time is money for him too.How things have changed in Bharat.Cut and paste this link to pics of Sikkim state......you won`t regret it!.I chose Sikkim for my vacation after checking these pics.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=4089556#post4089556


cayenne

paging the apologists for pan-Islamism..(ozerkhalid and Zakk)...how do you explain this poll?

http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/2002/guardian-muslims-poll-june-2002.htm

Forget Iraq for a minute...the war in Afghanistan against OBL was a real war against terrorism...so how do you explain why 66% of brit-muslims disapprove of the war against OBL and only 20% approve?

93% of brit-muslims are concerned about war in the middle east...95% of brit-muslims are concerned about the war in Kashmir....

Once again...how doesn`t that reflect a higher degree of concern for pan-Islamic causes...

And if brit-pakis are so concerned about the sufferings of their fellow humans, why hasn`t any brit-paki protested against the government of sudam for what it`s doing in darfur?

Did we hear of pakis, with their concern for the suffering of fellow humans, planning a bomb attack against the saddam regime? No...

POLICE SEIZE EXPLOSIVES
Eight men are continuing to be being questioned over an alleged plot to unleash a terrorist bombing campaign in Britain.

Detectives found more than half a ton of ammonium nitrate fertiliser - the same explosive ingredient already used in terror attacks in Bali, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Africa and the United States.

The suspects, aged between 17 and 32, are all British citizens and Muslims of Pakistani descent, sources said.


Pakistanis held in Iraq with explosives

BAGHDAD, March 26: Iraqi forces said on Saturday that they had arrested 120 suspects, including foreign Arabs, Pakistanis and Afghans, on suspicion of planning attacks against the country`s Shia community.

A source at the defence ministry said the suspects were arrested during a raid in Jurf al-Sakhr, about 60km south of Baghdad.

#66 by thunder on May 9, 2005 5:27pm PT


what about all the campaigning the british pakistanis did against saddam ? infront of embassies around the world, the US , the UK, there were massive rallies in London against Saddam ? how can you overlook that ?


I searched for that in google and didn`t find anything...maybe there`s a special search engine for pakiworld™, the magical mystical place where right is left and black is white and where brit-pakis came out on the streets protesting against saddam or didn`t back islamic terrorism in Kashmir....

maybe some brit-paki can post the url for that search engine...

#61 by ozerkhalid on May 9, 2005 4:52pm PT


Has your head been buried so deep in the Saharan sand that you did not take heed that Brit-Pakistanis, Brit-Hindus, Indian and Pakistani diplomats campaigned head-strong round the clock and relentlessly for years to push forward multi-lateral legislation against Saddam and his brutalities: to cite but a few concrete examples:


The odd brit-paki diplomat working against saddam is not the same as the vast number of brit-pakis marching in the streets..or voting primarily based on that issue...

I`m sure there were some brit-paki diplomats who worked with blair on the dossier or whatever lies he used to push the war...should we take that to mean the vast majority of brit-pakis were in favor of the iraq war?

Tell me how many brit-paki parliament members sponsored resolutions against saddam hussein when he was killing iraqis?


Please be informed before waxing lyrical.


Please post some links on brit-pakis making saddam`s opression or the genocide in rawanda the number one issue when that happened...

I`ll repeat so it`s clear: The vast majority of brit-pakistanis didn`t care when saddam was murdering iraqi mothers and children....or when rawandan mothers and children were being murdered....when that happened, it wasn`t their number one issue....

So please excuse me for not believing that brit-pakis were motivated by concerns for the sufferings of their fellow humans...

#60 by Zakkk on May 9, 2005 4:34pm PT


and as the decision to go to war effects millions of people it supersedes debates on education and health..


Education policy and health policy effects millions...millions of brits...including brit-pakis...this is absolutely about pan-Islamism...Most brit-pakis are against the war in Afghanistan too...


I could quote them to you..but I really wouldn`t wanna burst your Islamophobe bubble...


Umm...why don`t you quote them and actually burst the bubble...

and another thing...pakistan is not the same as islam...saying brit-pakistanis are more prone to terrorism is not the same as saying brit-muslims are more prone to terrorism...nice try tho...

ozerkhalid,
The manifesto looks good to me. But then I don`t live in UK so cannot say for sure if they really have achieved what they have claimed to have achieved.

thunder,
Britain seems to have an uneasy relationship with EU. Seems like if the crunch point comes when they have to choose between EU and USA, they almost always choose USA. I guess its because they share the same heritage.

spiritualgypsy,
Tony Blair seems to have done a decent job with everthing else. I mean look at their NHS. It does not seem to be as bad some in the press have made it out to be, and if it had been left to the conservatives, they would have sold it out.

Re: # 64

Pakistanis outperform Bengalis and people of Afro-Carribean background..Pakistanis are outperformed by Indians ( regardless of whther they are Hindus, Muslims or Sikhs)..but Pakistanis do better when you exclude the Mirpuri community..

As far as the justification of the war..Saddam should have been toppled..but for the right reasons..what was done..in the end was purely for neoconservative idealogues...and one shouldn`t kid themselves into thinking it had any humanitarian motives..

Those who oppose Islamists should in fact have opposed the war..as a result of this war there is an Islamist wave sweeping the Arab world which is far more anti american...

Re: # 74

cayenne

when the cards of the trip to london have been placed on the poker table give me a shout (my details including e-mail are on my profile) and we can partayy !

Re: # 58
Ozer K

You`re welcome.Pounds into rupees means party time in india for ye.I have a cousin , born in the UK, and i have visited there many times, tho` not in the last seven years.Started working!!.Actually, my cousin visits more often bringing with him a whole group of his limey friends and many of them never want to return , or do so reluctantly, after enjoying themselves here.With more private airlines operating from india, airfares should start coming down, so a trip to London is definitely on the cards for me.Right now it costs the same whether one flies from New Delhi to Cochin or to Singapore!!!.Guess where the janta will head?.

Well, back to the `serious` discussion of the Uk elections.For you!!.

cayenne

Re: # 14

theo what do you feel should be done with pakistanis in britain ?

should they be deported ?

is that the assumption by you and the judge ?

Re: # 29

sajj

what concrete steps and tangible ones can Asians living in britain take to foster multi-culturalism ?

Re: # 57

vivek what do you feel blair has brought to the table ?

Re: # 15

Theo

what about communalism amongst hindus jewish and bengali contingencies ? surely those need to be taken into account ?

Re: # 36

urstruly

could you name a few evangelist organisations in the uk and what are their beliefs ?

Re: # 35

syke

what dirty tactics did galloway actually deploy ?

Re: # 45

cayenne are you attracted to this ozer or are you in rivalry ? you guys started lashing out at each other and now you are getting goose-bumps ? sarcasm surely ?

Re: # 54

Arjun

what about all the campaigning the british pakistanis did against saddam ? infront of embassies around the world, the US , the UK, there were massive rallies in London against Saddam ? how can you overlook that ?

Re: # 57

vivek

surely the UK does not depend entirely on the US for its bread and butter? what about its allainces with the EU, and the Commonwealth, its own home-grown industries, its imports and exports ?

do you not feel that tony blair was acting as a lap dog for the US and was coerced into war ?

Re: # 60

Zakkk

how do British-Pakistanis fare in the literacy rates as compared to other ethnic minorities such as Indians, Bengalis, Jamaicans, West Indians etc ?

since no moral justification was given in the UK, if any can be given at all, regarding war in Iraq do you feel it was necessary ?

Re: # 57

Vivek you raise an interesting point. Just as an addendum to your comment herein lie the ``official`` benefits brought to the UK by Tony Blair and his navigation of the Labour Party . Do not buy into his ``sailing-skills`` wholesale, for at times he has pirated the seas akin to Captain Jack Sparrow, especially on Iraq, though there is a dosage of truism in a lot of these oceanic achievements:

Labour.org.uk

Labour`s top 50 achievements since being elected in 1997:

1. Lowest inflation since the 60s
2. Lowest mortgage rates for 40 years
3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage
4. Record police numbers in England and Wales
5. Cut overall crime by 30 per cent
6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools
7. Best-ever primary school results
8. Funding for every pupil in England to double (since 1997) by 2007-08
9. Lowest unemployment for 29 years
10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest counties
11. 78,700 more nurses
12. 27,400 more doctors
13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards
14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament
15. Devolved power to Welsh Assembly
16. Banned anti-personnel mines
17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice at any time
18. New Deal - helped over a million people into work
19. Local government funding has increased by a third in real terms
20. Equalised the age of consent for gay men
21. Free entry to all national museums and galleries
22. Overseas aid budget more than doubled
23. Restored city-wide government to London
24. Child benefit up 25 per cent since 1997
25. Created Sure Start to help children from low income households
26. Introduced the Disability Rights Commission
27. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & extra £100 for over-80s
28. The biggest rolling stock replacement programme ever seen on our railways
29. Negotiated the historic Good Friday Agreement in Northern Ireland
30. Over 28,000 more teachers in England schools
31. Implemented the Freedom of Information Act
32. All workers now have a right to 4 weeks’ paid holiday
33. Record rises in the state pension
34. 700,000 children lifted out of relative poverty
35. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents
36. Banned handguns
37. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent
38. Free nursery places for three and four-year-olds in England, Scotland and Wales
39. Free fruit for all four to six-year-olds at school
40. Free school milk for five, six and seven-year-olds in Wales
41. Record police numbers in Scotland
42. Implemented the Human Rights Act
43. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since the industrial revolution
44. Free TV licences for over-75s
45. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals
46. Halved maximum waiting times for NHS operations
47. Free local bus travel for the over-60s and the disabled in Wales and Scotland
48. Record number of students in higher education
49. Extended the Race Relations Act so that all public bodies and functions now have a duty to promote race equality
50. Five, six and seven-year-olds in class sizes of 30 or less


Want to comment on the list? Please call us on 08705 900200 or email info@new.labour.org.uk

Re: # 49

Van Gogh,

Your feudalistic mentality of stoking fire between Hindus and Muslims is stale.

It is precisely this rivalry-ridden lunacy which a portal like Chowk seeks to disparage.

Get your facts straight and stop waxing lyrical.

Re: # 51

Arjun, with typical neo-fascist rhetoric exhorts

“enough of the “oh we`re just driven by the sufferings of our fellow human beings already”

The above statement portrays your sentiments towards fellow human beings and speaks volumes of your lamentable attitude: Arjun why are you a character so impregnated with the heaviest chip on your shoulders? Lay it down.

Or it will ravage you into yet more hatred.

Stop trying to spin this forum into a hindu-muslim trash-fest. Grow up. That game has been played a million times before.

You carry on lifelessly lamenting

“When saddam hussein killed ``thousands of Iraqi mothers and children``, was military action to stop that killing the number one issue for brit-pakistanis?

Has your head been buried so deep in the Saharan sand that you did not take heed that Brit-Pakistanis, Brit-Hindus, Indian and Pakistani diplomats campaigned head-strong round the clock and relentlessly for years to push forward multi-lateral legislation against Saddam and his brutalities: to cite but a few concrete examples:

U.N. Security Council Resolutions 686 and 687, demanded that Iraq return all prisoners from Kuwait and renounce all involvement with terrorism.

Security Council Resolution 1373 unequivocally certified that Saddam continues to shelter and support terrorist organizations that direct violence against Iran, Israel, and Western governments.

I sincerely hope that NO ONE in this forum slants toward sympathy for a vile tyrant like Saddam. At the same time WE have fundamental problems with unilateral “machismo” by the US Congress, pushing its beak into waters without the sanctity of international treaties under the mantle of UN auspices.

Arun and Theo Van Gogh, your facts on what stance “the majority of Indian and Pakistani citizens, whether of British background or not” took against Saddam is flimsy, and legally baseless. Please be informed before waxing lyrical.

Arun and Van Gogh, your feudalistic mentality of stoking fire between Hindus and Muslims is stale.

It is precisely this rivalry-ridden lunacy which a portal like Chowk seeks to disparage.

Re: # 54

Arjun: As pointless as it is to argue with you..I shall give it a shot..the premise behind going to war in Britain was vastly different than the states..there was specific statement of a clear and imminent danger to the United Kingdom as a justification for the war..at NO time was a moral argument used. The premise was false...and as the decision to go to war effects millions of people it supersedes debates on education and health..

As far as literacy rates are concerned..there have been extensive debates on the topic some of which I have attended in Britain..and it has a lot to do with ethnic and regional variations..I could quote them to you..but I really wouldn`t wanna burst your Islamophobe bubble...

Re: # 52

Aslam

By voting for the Liberal Democrats you, and thousands of others are garnering an evolution which will seismically stir Westminster-based politics away from its suffocating two-party stranglehold to a variegated three-party system.

Oxygenizing The Lords and Commons with pluralism.

Re: # 55

Cayenne

Gracias a million times for your take on Mumbai`s nightlife. Sorry fellow participants, just this time my leaves wither away from the topic at hand, for Cayenne has given an exhaustive low-down on Mumbai`s nightlife, which merits a response.

Cayenne we may have started off on a wrong footing but you sound like me: a real party animal ! If you are in London we should get royally hammered as you can sip some of the finest cocktails here.

Seems that Mumbai`s impresarios excellently fling the hat of entrepreneurialism into the clubbing/nightlife scene. I guess apprehensions dissolve as you walk into an avant-garde floating bar named ``Suzie Wong``. Here in London we sometimes have ritzy boat parties
aboard the HMS Belfast, sinking into a prestigious boat-fest gala. Most boat parties leave from Westminster pier pass Embankment and end up at Greenwich.

Sounds like Mumbai`s party aficionados promenade into the inviting hospitality of the Resto Pub Onyx, Enigma and Athena. The caviar-like rarity of Mumbai`s eclectic boho chic crowd and the themed Olive venue, as well as Goa surely summon titillating tribes of party aficionados from far a field.

I usually spend time tasting the rarest champagne with chums at various London hot-spots, namely The Light Bar, Fifty which is a casino/2 restaurants V and Rama and private members club. Worthy of mention are also the Kingly Club, Number 5 Cavendish Square, Pangaea, Noble Rot, Aura, Embassy, Penthouse with a scenic view of London from its 8th floor and bespoke Sketch.

I would relish the opportunity to one day visit Mumbai and mingle with the Fashionista tribes and new-media heavy-weights flocked and cavorted unabridged and uncensored to soulful funk tinged with desi vibes ?

Converting Pound Sterling into Rupees probably means guzzling down the finest cocktails in Mumbai without having to shell out astronomical sums. The party scene in Bharat sounds like a refreshing gem as compared to the trashy tourism throw-away clubs mushrooming in and around Leicester Square.

They shall only be a crude map of disheveled memories a few months down the line.

thunder,
It is the duty of a govt. to first worry about its country`s self-interest and if that self-interest gets directed against some other country then the govt. has to do it. Tony Blair didn`t really have much of a choice. UK does depend on the USA for its daily bread and butter, so he had to join the war on Iraq. I don`t think it was a decision that he did with conviction, and I am sure any other person as PM of UK would have done the same thing. So if I had to judge Tony Blair, I would judge on things other than this issue. In short if I was a British voter, I would have voted for Tony Blair inspite of my opposition to the war on Iraq.

Re: # 48

Vivek

With reference to your statement “But to vote for a party just because of their stand on Iraq instead of the things that affect your daily life, is carrying it a bit too far”

The lacunae in your reasoning are that motives to vote often get triggered by short-sighted self-interest. That is why Maggie, the Iron Lady, got sand-bagged after the poll tax fiasco. If only causes like Iraq took a more pivotal platform rather than self-interest, democracy would come of age and be in a hale and hearty state.

So is it ballots or bullets?

A stark reality: Too many bullets. Not enough ballots.

Ozerkhalid

Don`t you think the way every discussion on this site ends up in a hindu-muslim trashfest, tawdry?.

In addition to interact #50, i left out the LIBRARY BAR at Taj President hotel and RESTOPUB ONYX a great drinking-eating-partying venue.There`s also GEOFFREY`S in Back Bay.`SUZIE WONG`` is the only floating bar in Mumbai.You can catch a boat at H2O Water Sports Complex and get there.Great views of the Mumbai skyline..The best pastime in mumbai is to buy booze at your local liquor store and head out with friends and get wasted, ofcourse.In India all recreation is available at reasonable prices or what the pocket will bear.Goa and Kerala are the two party states of india, due to the beautiful climate, beaches ,pubs/clubs and tourist traffic from all over the globe.Cut and paste these links and check out Mumbai.......

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=198981&page=5&pp=20

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=164579

cheers

cayenne

#53 by Zakkk on May 9, 2005 10:56am PT


Why are Bangladeshis in the UK at the bottom of the South Asian Socio-economic ladder?


who said bangladeshis don`t care more about pan-Islamic causes like Iraq?


Bangladesh is a secular country and has not had a chronic rivalry with India either?


strawman...I never claimed India being secular or Pakistan having a rivalry with India was the cause for the state brit-pakis find themselves in....

This isn`t about their home countries....This is about the brit-pakis/hindus/sikhs...don`t you think it makes more sense for them to vote based on more important things...like education or health care? And if their votes on Iraq are driven solely by their concern for human suffering, why were they silent when saddam was butchering iraqis?

I love that twisted logic..Pakis lag behind Hindus because ..(implied) they are Muslim..or too obsessed with Pan islamic causes..if that was so true..why are Bangladeshis in the UK at the bottom of the South Asian Socio-economic ladder? Bangladesh is a secular country and has not had a chronic rivalry with India either?

Selective application of evidence is a common nasty tactic of Islamophobes...

ozer khalid good article and welcome to chowk

I myself was a lifelong supporter of labour this time i voted liberal democrats, mainly because of iraq war. we`ve been hearing for last 2 years that gordon brown will topple him, the problem is Blair is a slick oxford educated lawer he seems to have a talent of talking his way out of trouble,(unlike his tongue-tied buddy bush) he could sell ` ice to eskimos`.
I noticed this time he was keeping a low profile, i think it`s only a question of time before gordon topples him.

cayenne
Britain still has some of the best universities remember DNA was discovered here so was CLONING dolly the sheep.

#46 by ozerkhalid on May 9, 2005 8:50am PT


Of course you would not dream of giving an iota of importance to the thousands of innocent Iraqi mothers and children getting pillaged and slaughtered by foreign troops?


enough of the ``oh we`re just driven by the sufferings of our fellow human beings`` already

When the pakistani army slaughtered millions of bangladeshis, was that the number issue for brit-pakistanis at that time?

When saddam hussein killed ``thousands of Iraqi mothers and children``, was military action to stop that killing the number one issue for brit-pakistanis?

No...? Didn`t think so....

Re: # 47


For `theme ` clubs in Mumbai, `Olive` and ``Suzy Wong``...good music more western than desi.My favorites are ENIGMA, a night/dance club at the JW Marriot in Juhu.Rs.1000.00 entry fee, music is a mix of western and hindi pop and ATHENA,a lounge, restaurant, nightclub, and bar all in one, and the younger generation of Bollywood celebrities and models love to hang out here, so this is the place to hang with Mumbai`s trendiest. If one is gay , Voodoo is the main hang out.There are hundreds of bars/pubs and over fifty dance clubs in Mumbai , atleast.Some of the clubs, worth mention, and i`ve been to them , are FIRE AND ICE,INSOMNIA,RAZZBERRY RHINOCEROS(kinda named after my Mrs. when she`s dressed up to attend a wedding), and , VELOCITY.

In Colaba, CAFE MONDEGAR and LEOPOLD`s are for the social set.A little too trendy for me.Copa Cabana ia another place, quite desi-texmex though.These are the lounge bar`s that i like, tho` i`m not into lounge bars a whole lot.I`ll leave you with a quote from a famous person..... ``Nightlife in Mumbai provides an enthralling experience and that one could only understand by actually exploring it``.

Ozer Khalid

But you didnt explain what the crimson sun was all about?

Ozer, pointing to the rise of communalist politics is not trouble making. That is the mentality of the ostrich with the head in the sand, shooting the messenger. Communal politics of the Respect kind threatens Multicultural amity, not me. Widescale election fraud threatens democracy, not me.

Saj1981

The process was started by the Rushdie affair. That is when the Asian community started breaking down into groups, because Muslims started priveliging their religious identity over their ethnic one. The impetus came from that. You cant blame this on colonial divide and rule...nobody is holding a gun to Pakistani`s heads when they say they consider their identity to be British Muslim rather than British Asian. It is their conscious choice. Now Sikhs and Hindus want the same. This is religious politics and communalism and its the future.

ozerkhalid,
It is ok to express concern for the situation in Iraq. But to vote for a party just because of their stand on iraq instead of the things that affect your daily life, is carrying it a bit too far. If I was a Brit, then I would have voted against Tony Blair only if there the British casualities were large, which has not happened.

Re: # 45

Cayenne,

Point taken with a pinch of salt. Since you do mention the industry i work in, that of night-life/entertainment, any suggestions on the hippest dance clubs in Mumbai ?

Re: # 41

Arjun

Of course you would not dream of giving an iota of importance to the thousands of innocent Iraqi mothers and children getting pillaged and slaughtered by foreign troops?
Surely more than a “tinge” of neo-fascism on your part amigo?

#37 by ozerkhalid on May 9, 2005 7:49am PT
Re: # 28

Cayenne
You are a living paradox. Yet again contradicting yourself.

ozerkhalid,

You`re giving me goosebumps talking to me like that!!!!.And, i`ve been in a slump ever since they closed the dance bars in Mumbai.You think i should see my shrink??.

Regards,

cayenne

Re: # 36

Urstruly

Compelling as it may sound, this perhaps is one conspiracy theory taken too far in the case of Britain. The conservative religious-right of Republican penchant hold much more sway across the Atlantic !

Re: # 30

Fuzair

It is noteworthy to observe how you take into account the ``latent`` calculations or ``Machiavellian machinations`` going on behind the scenes, based on pricing parity which reflect more acutely the figures. Cayenne kindly do take note.

Sound analysis by Fuzair.

Re: # 29

Re: # 32

Zakkk and Sajj

Right-wing extremism and xenophobia as both of you poignantly observe, have contemptuously ripened their seeds in Europe. Whilst in the UK inroads have been built for the deplorable BNP anorexics, not too long ago Jean-Marie Le Pen`s Front National nearly took France to an electoral slaughter-house.

Unfortunately this omni-present racial cancer has spread through the European veins far a field. From Italy`s post-fascist National Alliance`s Gianfranco Fini and the Northern League`s Umberto Bossi, to Austria`s far right Freedom Party megalomaniac Joerg Haider.

It is only hoped that forgiving gravitational forces will pull down this torrid tidal wave of anger.

And have it sunk deeper than the Titanic.

#29 by Saj1981 on May 9, 2005 6:02am PT


then came the breakdown into various national groupings....and the last 5-6 years especially has seen the rise of breaking down on religious lines...British hindus...sikhs...muslims..etc etc.


why is that surprising....most brit-hindus and sikhs don`t list the war in Iraq or support for jihad in Kashmir as their number one issue....

Re: # 16

Arjun

Truth be told the most famous Pakistani in Britain by far is Sir Anwar Pervaiz, a savyy businessman who went from rags to riches and stands as an exemplary benchmark for all South Asian aspirants on these shores.

#22 by ozerkhalid on May 8, 2005 10:04pm PT

No..It`s a tinge of interests of Islamic ummah over the most obvious thing i.e. your own welfare...

Do you disagree with the basic point: That Pakis lag behind hindus and sikhs(and chinese) in most fields and yet their number one issue is the war in iraq or the jihad in kashmir....

Don`t you see a cause/effect? Maybe pakis lag behind because they focus too much on the pan-Islamic causes?

Re: # 35

Syke,

Merci beaucoup for the statistical correction on the Lib Dem vote numbers. By the way what is your take on Galloway`s anti-war stance ? Dirty politics, but sometimes means do justify the ends ?

As for Charles Kennedy Junior well the apple never falls far from the tree...who knows maybe in a generation`s time he churns out more effectively an evolution that his dad kindled ?

Re: # 28

Cayenne

Another feather in the cap to Mittal Steel, at the helm of it Britain`s most affluent magnet. With an ``official`` net worth of $2.2 bil surely if this country were in the pits, as you so sorely suggest, then why would Lakshmi and Usha Mittal still be here ? You are a living paradox. Yet again contradicting yourself.

Surely the fact that ``some`` South Asians are towering like minarets in Britain is a salutory emblem of their hard work and enterprise. I think for once we both concur: deservedly so.

My firm helped organise Amit Bhatia and Vanisha Mittal`s wedding in Versailles. Renu and Arun Bhatia were up-to-the minute and exemplary. The wedding extravaganza took six-day long, which saw over 1000 guests, ceremoniously concluding at the Grand Intercontinental in Paris.

MI-6 has manipulated the elections and only those candidates have won that are either evangilists or have evangilist leanings.

Re: # 8

Did any of you bother to read the manisfesto`s before voting??

Liberal Democrat had a very good chance of securing more votes, but i feel they didnt campaign strong enough. If they had any chance of getting more seats in the parliament then it was now, but Charles was too busy attending to his baby...

Respect party didn`t just do well in Birmingham but what about George Galloway...him knocking out Oona King proved....dirty politics is the only way to go.
Conservatives lost out to Lib Dem in Solihull Constituency for the first time since 1945 that`s when Solihull actually became a constituency..now thats Sayin something.Glad to see my vote Did Count!!...it made HISTORY!!

By the way great article....Lib Dem got 62 seats though..not 56.

Re: # 27

Theo Van Gogh

Why are you so hell-bent on singling out one religion, ethnicity, cultural background, namely the Muslim Pakistani community and puking all your racist hatred upon it ? What has furnished in you all this ill-feeling toward Muslims ? Are you in this forum to make a positive contribution or merely polemicize anger and prejudice ? My suspicions lean towards the verity that you are merely a rabble-rouser and like to stir trouble, as others in this forum have suggested.

It is due to biased one-sided prejudices like yours that Asians in Britain are in schism. If you so ardently advocate a multicultural template, as you do in one of your previous interacts, then why demonize it by being a trouble-maker ?

Re: # 31

BNP ..got 14000 votes in Birmingham alone..thats saying alot. Your right Saj, this divide among the British Asian community is not going to let them excel. There is no concept of South Asian identity which is very sad, as they hardly make up even 4% of the population as a whole.

Re: # 22

A tinge? you obviously haven`t been on Chowk too long!

Some interesting trends in this election that I noted: The BNP has made significant inroads into the South surprisingly East London was where they did best..

Respect split the Anti Blair vote In Brummie land and other areas..which saved Labour in at least 6 or 7 seats..

Re 15: One thing further on this point of the degeneration of multi-culturalism and general tolerance....is the sad way that so many divisions have popped up in the British Asian community in the UK. Up to even 15 years ago..British Indians..Pakistanis...few Banglas that were there...were all simply British Asians....then came the breakdown into various national groupings....and the last 5-6 years especially has seen the rise of breaking down on religious lines...British hindus...sikhs...muslims..etc etc...as someone else noted...British Asians still only form a tiny minority of the overall population.(3.4%)....and historically the community has ...still does and will continue to face common problems such as racism in the jobs and housing markets...immigration issues...acceptance of cultures other than the indigenous...this divisive breakdown into more and more small communities does reek of Colonialism`s divide and rule..but also yet again the fundamental idiocy of certain segments of the British Asian populace...to be fair..particularly but NOT exclusively in the Muslim community. On the whole..inspite of various difficulties..the British Asian community has prospered as whole over the last 40 years....and its no coincidence that religious and communal issues being a no-no among the community..helped this objective. As Indians and Pakistanis have proved over and over again..that when they have left behind their communal/religious agendas back home and left to work as expatriates not only have they prospered as respective communities..but they have lived not only in peace but in fraternity. The rise of this poisonous communal and religious politics in Britain is only going to work against ALL British Asians...especially as the mainstream Conservatives have tapped into inner xenophobia of the goray with their anti-immigration stance..and the likes of the BNP grow on hatred of alll coloureds...Indian..Bengali...hindu....sikh...muslim.....
it doesnt matter...as any british asian would know.all are just ``bloody pakis`` to them..
[Reply to interact #29]

Cayenne,

Remove China and India from this list and you might have a point. Remember, the CIA does its GDP calculation on a PPP basis; i.e., it`s not a ``real`` calculation but a notional calculation based on pricing parity.

World Bank calculations, somewhat more accurate and smoothing out exchange rate and price fluctuations, put the UK at (for 2003 Gross National Income) $1.68 trillion, India $0.57 trillion and China at $1.4 trillion. So while China probably will surpass the UK pretty soon, India has a loooooong way to go!

Sorry to burst your bubble but India isn`t going to ``bail out`` the UK any time soon.

Regards.

Re 15: One thing further on this point of the degeneration of multi-culturalism and general tolerance....is the sad way that so many divisions have popped up in the British Asian community in the UK. Up to even 15 years ago..British Indians..Pakistanis...few Banglas that were there...were all simply British Asians....then came the breakdown into various national groupings....and the last 5-6 years especially has seen the rise of breaking down on religious lines...British hindus...sikhs...muslims..etc etc...as someone else noted...British Asians still only form a tiny minority of the overall population.(3.4%)....and historically the community has ...still does and will continue to face common problems such as racism in the jobs and housing markets...immigration issues...acceptance of cultures other than the indigenous...this divisive breakdown into more and more small communities does reek of Colonialism`s divide and rule..but also yet again the fundamental idiocy of certain segments of the British Asian populace...to be fair..particularly but exclusively in the Muslim community. On the whole..inspite of various difficulties..the British Asian community has prospered as whole over the last 40 years....and its no coincidence that religious and communal issues being a no-no among the community..helped this objective. As Indians and Pakistanis have proved over and over again..that when they have left behind their communal/religious agendas back home and left to work as expatriates not only have they prospered as respective communities..but they have lived not only in peace but in fraternity. The rise of this poisonous communal and religious politics in Britain is only going to work against ALL British Asians...especially as the mainstream Conservatives have tapped into inner xenophobia of the goray with their anti-immigration stance..and the likes of the BNP grow on hatred of alll coloureds...Indian..Bengali...hindu....sikh...muslim.....
it doesnt matter...as any british asian would know.all are just ``bloody pakis`` to them..

Re: # 4

Ozer K, my brother, 3.2% of 59.6 million ain`t still a whole lot of people.Russia celebrates it`s 60 years v-Day celebrations as i type.Fifty world leaders invited, Bush, Hu-Jintao,Chirac, my man Dr.Manmohan who`s having a meeting with both Putin and Bush and other worthies, but no Blair and no Mushaaraf.You see the world doesn`t invite hired hands.Only lawfully elected leaders.Britain is `a second rate power` as an indian politician so delicately put it, when QE II came calling on New Delhi a few years ago.I wish all south asians well, wherever they may choose to live or were born in.My issue is with Britain`s status in the world and at present it is way down the pecking order.It may change and i certainly wish them well.

To give you an idea of where Britain is economically:

1 World $ 55,500,000,000,000 2004 est.
2 United States $ 11,750,000,000,000 2004 est.
3 European Union $ 11,650,000,000,000 2004 est.
4 China $ 7,262,000,000,000 2004 est.
5 Japan $ 3,745,000,000,000 2004 est.
6 India $ 3,319,000,000,000 2004 est.
7 Germany $ 2,362,000,000,000 2004 est.
8 United Kingdom $ 1,782,000,000,000 2004 est

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html

Hey, we indians might even bail out the british in a few years, say what??.Say hello to Lakshmi Mittal for me won`t ya??.Cheers.

ozer

Deal with the substance of my posts, dont pontificate so pompously with phrases like `The crimson sun will set on its ubiquitous inequity.`

Thats hilarious. What does it mean? Please explain. What crimson sun? What ubiquitous inequity? What the hell are you talking about?

[[However don’t simplistically over-egg the pudding by branding the “entire community” in Birmingham as “fraudsters”. Your labels and prejudices are all too transparent and do not hold sway amongst this audience]]

Dont put quotation marks around phrases I dont use implying my assent to those sentiments. That is fraudulent. I stand by my words, that we are witnessing the growth of Muslim communalist and sectarian politics in Britain. The level of electoral fraud carried out by Pakistani politicians across the country has been massive and unprecedented and has led to widescale criminal prosecution and imprisonment. No other community has been involved in this, not Afro-Caribbeans, Jews, Hindus or Sikhs. Why?

Ozer

Great to see you on Chowk babez ! I loved reading ``Dusk``. When are you coming to visit in Houston ? Loaaads to tell ya.....

Congratulations on winning the essay at the Pak High Commission in London ! I neva hear it through the man himself......Which clubs are u promoting these days ? I misss uuuu....

On your article, do you feel Blair will fulfill his pledges ? Apart from Gordon Brown, what are the other obstacles is he likely to face ? Surely the vacuous rhetoric by the Tories will prove no hindrance ?

Ozer

You write very eloquently. Good to finally evidence in-depth socio-political commentary by a multi-cultural fella. I have been privileged to come across some of your moving pieces on poetry and Islamic Banking on the Internet and Google.

You are quite romantic and charismatic at heart. From your interacts I see you adore Khalil Gibran and Rumi.

Question to Ozer or any expert on politics: is there any real difference between labour and the tories ? do they not stand and represent similar values ? and if the liberal democrats have gained ground will british politics not gleefully be gridlocked into italian-style coalitions ? a ceaseless fragmentation of non-ending fox-hunting debates ?

Dear Ozer Khalid

``Dooms-day sooth-sayers or not, gleaming triumphal bravura is not an order du jour. A ``Damoclean`` sword hangs over the don Dionysius of Downing Street. The resulting years to come will reveal to all and sundry if Blair is up for the Herculean feat``

Wow ! You write so cavalierly ! Have you studied classics or Greek mythology ?

Come what may, you are a gifted writer and an acute observer of international relations and finance. And by the looks of your i-log profile quite handsome and easy-on-the-eyes as well !! You poetically answer most questions posed by your captive audience.

I have one question to all/any readers: do you feel Mr Blair will sit his full-tenure or will the throne prematurely be passed onto Gordon Brown ? If so what will be the ramifications in terms of policy shifts ? Especially for the ``Desi`` community living in the UK ?

Re: # 8

Labyrinth

Your “Brummien” point of view hits the nail on the head with meticulous precision. Labour, in Birmingham and elsewhere, takes a leaner slant on immigration and Visa processing, therefore remains a vote-winner amongst ethnic minorities. As for Galloway, he took a bold stance and his actions righteously earn him approbation amongst voters throughout the UK and the Commonwealth.

Only one point puzzles me in your reasoning, Salma Yaqoob`s laudable anti-war stance is exemplary, how is she pinching you by becoming a lady which you despicably hate ? Is it because of her bold stand ?

Or the truth resonating in her vocal chords ?

Labyrinth, without seeking to flog a dead-horse, was it truly necessary to unilaterally invade Iraq without appropriate UN sanctions? Surely unilateralism is a malady that plagues our society: a dire infringement for social development?

Weapons of mass destruction, as if by a Houdini-magic wand vanished into thin air? They were never found. Labyrinth a stark reality is that the weapons didn`t exist and were largely (if not totally) destroyed during the 1991 Gulf War.

We need gutsy spokeswomen like Salma Yaqoob to neutralize a male-laden neo-imperialist political landscape fraught with bravado.

Re: # 16

Arjun you observe

``Pakis lag behind hindus and sikhs in every field and your main issue is the war in Iraq and the Kashmir ``cause``

Do I detect a ``tinge of Hindutva agenda against Muslims`` ?

Re: # 11

Theo Van Gogh,

You insolently pick on an entire Pakistani community residing in Birmingham based on a few mischievous misfits being convicted of electoral fraud and criminal activity regarding postal ballots. Clearly these misfits deserve sanctions.

However don’t simplistically over-egg the pudding by branding the “entire community” in Birmingham as “fraudsters”. Your labels and prejudices are all too transparent and do not hold sway amongst this audience.

Seems you crave the attention, so bask in your misplaced wisdom and cosmetic glory.

The crimson sun will set on its ubiquitous inequity.

# 17

It`s satisfying to see Theodore Dalrymple, who gave every indication of being irredeemably disadvantaged in terms of intelligence, figuring things out, albeit slowly.


Theo

Hindus and Sikhs are the allies of Europe. They bring a wealth of experience that Europe does not have.

Re: # 10

B Babu you raise some constructively healthy issues. You asked me to name you “one” top UK-based technology firm. I will push the envelope much further and mention “entire” British industries, namely biotech and pharma, which have technology as their handmaiden and are fusing cutting-edge science to revolutionize the health of humanity at the threshold of the 21st century.

Babu, a much-discussed symbol of the UK`s entrepreneurial renaissance is the so-called “Cambridge Phenomenon” - a marriage of science and technology based enterprises mushroomed in and around Cambridge University. This cluster aka the ``Cambridge Science Park`` is blessed with razor-edge information technology, both hardware and software, and several of the new firms enjoy close links to leading universities; A case in point is Herman Hauser, championing Acorn Computers, a personal computer manufacturer, who innovatively worked at the Cavendish laboratory, and is recognized amongst friends and foes as a doyen of his trade.

British universities and government research laboratories have a stupendous track-record in the sciences on which biotechnology is based. This is crucial because in biotechnology, to a greater extent than in semiconductors or electronics, commercial success depends on an intimate continuum between corporate-based research, due-dilligence and science.

Second, biotechnology is inextricably linked to pharmaceuticals, and in the latter, the UK is comfortably nestled amongst the creme de la creme.

Well perched on an entrepreneurial apex.

Thanks in part to a favorable regulatory regime which lubricates the wheels for incentives and innovative research, there are strong nationally-owned companies such as AstraZeneca and GlaxoSmithKline as well as an overabundance of foreign outfits which have located research and production facilities in the UK.

Skills have been spruced-up over many years by the pharmaceutical industry - for example, in clinical testing, highly relevant to humanity`s future. The big pharmaceutical companies are vital customers and partners for biotechnology firms, nourishing and feeding off each other.

The success of this and other Cambridge firms engagingly sees “Silicon Fen” not as a rival to Silicon Valley, but a complement, where cross-Atlantic information-sharing has been second to none .

As made clear earlier to Cayenne, I do not for a nano-second deny American leadership in technology/electronics which has its nucleus in the sheer size of the domestic consumer market, extensive White House support emboldened through the Pentagon`s defence programme, a sector you were nippy to pin-point.

US technology is oxygenized by intense internal competition, the anti-monopoly laws on operating systems are instructive, and a set of supportive institutions which include a robust science base, easy interchange of personnel between the IV League and Wall Street, and a gargantuan, albeit hobbled, venture capital industry.

Babu what you do renege to observe is that the UK has witnessed a biotechnology/pharmaceutical renaissance, acknowledged by leading technologists, scientists and analysts, which may not be as deep-seated as in the US , but is profound nonetheless.

Before dismissing the US` Trans-Atlantic rival/partner do acquiesce to these milestones.

I hope Tony blair remains the PM for a while. Or atleast the Tories come back to power soon. About time another country other than USA needs to stand up against the Islamic fundamentalism...

Thanks,
Avkrishna

Yup...the core issue for pakis in the UK..kashmir and iraq....

When Islam Breaks Down
Theodore Dalrymple

Oe sign of the increasing weakness of Islam’s hold over its nominal adherents in Britain—of which militancy is itself but another sign—is the throng of young Muslim men in prison. They will soon overtake the young men of Jamaican origin in their numbers and in the extent of their criminality. By contrast, young Sikhs and Hindus are almost completely absent from prison, so racism is not the explanation for such Muslim overrepresentation.

I took the Muslim vote for granted - but that has all changed

Roy Hattersley returns to his old constituency and finds a mood of defiance

Respect is what the Muslim community - more confident than ever before - demands. They are not sure that it is available within the present political system. And they are certain that the west`s war on terror has made its achievement far less likely.

Dr Naseem - a retired general practitioner, chairman of Birmingham Central Mosque and Respect candidate for Perry Barr - believes the attack on the New York trade centre was orchestrated by the CIA. Dawn, the mosque`s newsletter (distributed to the 4,000 worshippers who attend prayers each weekend) publishes what he regards as evidence to support that fantasy.

#8 by labyrinth1 on May 8, 2005 3:21pm PT


the Pakistani Community played a very positive role and systematically voted for MPs who opposed war in Iraq and advocated for the solution of Kashmir cause.


Pakis lag behind hindus and sikhs in every field and your main issue is the war in Iraq and the Kashmir ``cause``....

you sure have your priorities in order.....

most famous indian in the UK: L.N. Mittal...most famous pakistani in the UK: omar saeed sheikh...now i wonder why that is...

One more thing, further to my post suggesting that the future may well see the growth of communalist politics in constituencies with large Muslim populations. I hope this is not the case, but the signs are that this will be how things will pan out, and one thing is for sure. As all forms of communal politics involve the cultivation of hatreds, enemies, demonising and sectarianism, the rise of Muslim communal politics will mean bad things for the Jews, Hindus, Sikhs and more generally, Multicultural life in Britain.

This is what a local Pakistani man had to say about the importation of Pakistani style democracy into Birmingham, England:

[[He said local bigwigs had come into Asian homes, pressuring voters to cast their postal ballots in front of them - insisting they back Labour. ``This is the politics of Pakistan or Bangladesh and they`ve brought it here,`` he said]]

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/elections2004/story/0,14549,1237077,00.html

[[Respect`s candidate was Salma Yaqoob a lady which I hate to admire because of her bold stand against War in Iraq although she lost but took 10,000 of Labour`s precious votes from Sparkbrook Area of Birmingham]]

Respect are a party composed of the extreme left wing Socialist Workers Party and the right wing Muslim Association of Britain. Their bond is a hatred for America and Israel. Respect got lots of votes in a constituency made up of about 50% Kashmiris using the rhetoric of Jihad-lite, stuff the Hindus in Kashmir, screw the Jews, etc etc etc. Not a surprise that they got so many votes playing communal politics. I think we will see more of this kind of communalist politics in the future in Britain.

Britain is not new to communal politics, for so long Northern Ireland has been crippled by this kind of ideology. But until now, the mainland has been free of it. Not any more. Muslim communalism will be a political force to be reckoned with in those parts of the country with large Pakistani populations in the future.

More on the electoral fraud commited by Pakistani politicians in Birmingham:

This is what the Judge had to say about the whole thing:

[[He criticised the government`s insistence that the current postal voting system was working, adding: ``Anybody who has sat through the case I have just tried and listened to evidence of electoral fraud that would disgrace a banana republic would find this statement surprising.``]]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/4406575.stm

labyrinth

[[I would also like to say that in this election specially the Pakistani Community played a very positive role and systematically voted for MPs who opposed war in Iraq and advocated for the solution of Kashmir cause.]]

Pakistanis in Birmingham have been responsible for the biggest electoral voting fraud in British history since Victorian times. That was the description of the judge who over saw the investigation of six Pakistani Kashmiri politicians in Birmingham recently who participated in a massive criminal attempt to fix voting in a council election using postal ballots, involving violence, intimidation and corruption on a massive scale. This is the greatest contribution Pakistani politicians in Birmingham have made to political life in Britain recently. Something to be proud of, indeed.

Incidentally, this has become a phenomena of Pakistani men being convicted of electoral fraud and criminal activity regarding postal ballots. I know at least two Pakistani politicians have been sent to prison in the last few weeks over this and the Kashmiris in Birmingham will be facing criminal charges too. It seems that whilst Pakistani voters have been acting on `principle` and worrying about freedom for Kashmir, other voters in Birmingham have had to worry about the corruption of democracy that has been taking place within certain sections of not so principled Pakistani politicians.

Birmingham hasnt been a safe ground for Labour merely because of the Pakistani community, those seats have always been solid Labour because they are working class constituencies in an industrial city. White, Jamaican, Sikh, Hindu, Irish, have all tended to vote Labour.

ozerkhalid #4

`` Let us refrain from “Eminemishly” tit-for-tatting at one another. Surely Chowk is too mature a forum for school-boy scoundrel antics to be deployed. Too facile a game to play. ``

You must be new !!!

`` Your maladroit history lecture suggests a 19th century Golden Age for Britannia, when, let me enlighten you, British dexterity flaunted its muscle in the 20th century !! Get those facts straight-wired into your cranium. ``

I have full admiration for the British for what they achieved even if they mistreated a few hundred million Third World people.

`` Your naïveté overlooks the verity that for every MG Rover there is an Enron Corp., Tyco International Ltd. and WorldCom Inc, degradingly entangled in accounting scrape despite the Sarbanes-Oxley Act.

There exist a plethora of British firms who are fiscally sound, solvent, exhibit profitability, liquidity and a healthy capital structure. ``

For every Enron, Worldcom, Global Crossing there is a Exon Mobil, Verizon etc. Those scandals occured prior to the enactment of the Sarbanes-Oxley act.

Name a top British technology firm - either in computers, semiconductors, capital equipment etc. Vodafone is the only decent name out there. Marconi is on the verge of bankruptcy.
Continental Europe has plenty - Ericsson, Nokia, Alcatel, Siemens, Phillips, BMW, Daimler, Volkswagen etc.

British military hardware - Harriers, Sea Kings, Tridents etc. are based on American military components.

cayenne`s basic point is still valid. If not for American politcal and military support UK would be completely irrelevant. He might not have been diplomatic about it.

for the sake of correction ,
still its the British Oil Company ( s ) who are the biggest land owners in US...

As someone who lives in Birmingham ... lemme give you guys from a Brummie`s point of view ,
Birmingham had always been a Labour safe ground thanks to Pakistani community there who always supported Labour from years but this time was different because of Iraq War ...... we had this Respect Party of George Galloway campaigning in Birmingham who created quite a fuss in England and specially in Birmingham ... Respect`s candidate was Salma Yaqoob a lady which I hate to admire because of her bold stand against War in Iraq although she lost but took 10,000 of Labour`s precious votes from Sparkbrook Area of Birmingham. Labour lost a seat in Yardley area of Birmingham to Liberal Democrats a party which is projecting there party as a mixture of Tories and Labour - Liberal Democrats snatched atleast 7-10% of Labours votes from all over UK.
Here I would like to add that Pakistani Community voted Labour anyway because Labour still advocates immigration and Labour specially Tony Blair eased marriage - visa process when he came into power.
There this thing in UK Politics that Tony Blair will in a couple of years time will hand over No. 10 to someone else ....maybe his chancellor who had always longed for No.10 for years.... As a Pakistani , I see British Politics as a role model because here politics is done on issues - council tax , tax relief , immigration and anti- social elements plus law and order situation were the main issues in this election. I would also like to say that in this election specially the Pakistani Community played a very positive role and systematically voted for MPs who opposed war in Iraq and advocated for the solution of Kashmir cause.

Re: # 6

Arjun

Despite your signalling radar, what you should be detecting is a ``tinge of praise`` for the boys of Bangalore.

#4 by ozerkhalid on May 8, 2005 5:05am PT


Surely Chowk is too mature a forum


you`re new here, aren`t you?

Not dissimilar to the Green Card scheme heralded by Germany for the shining cyber-boys of Bangalore.


Do I detect a tinge of envy?

Re: # 3

Cayenne

Let us refrain from “Eminemishly” tit-for-tatting at one another. Surely Chowk is too mature a forum for school-boy scoundrel antics to be deployed. Too facile a game to play.

A few corrections are in order. From where did your cerebral cortex assume that I claim myself to be “superiour” to you? Or anyone else for that matter? Stop throwing assumptions from thin air.

For they wither like the aged leaves of autumn.

This is not an ego-battle on an 8 mile road. The problem with your “plain-speak” is that it is raw over-simplification ebbed in error. Let’s be pedantic: Britain’s population is not 50 million as you conveniently conjecture but 60 million. Asians form not 2% of the entire British population but 3.2%, including multi-cultural variants such as myself.

Your maladroit history lecture suggests a 19th century Golden Age for Britannia, when, let me enlighten you, British dexterity flaunted its muscle in the 20th century !! Get those facts straight-wired into your cranium.

You anxiously quote American prowess, which I never deny: however whilst so doing you hasten your over-stretched belt to cite MG Rover. That is meager and portrays a faddish example of you name-dropping “one firm” just because you pressingly picked up an FT and doggedly browsed it after a couple of years in the lurch.

Your naïveté overlooks the verity that for every MG Rover there is an Enron Corp., Tyco International Ltd. and WorldCom Inc, degradingly entangled in accounting scrape despite the Sarbanes-Oxley Act.

There exist a plethora of British firms who are fiscally sound, solvent, exhibit profitability, liquidity and a healthy capital structure.

Stop playing the “Self-Victimization” card. I will no longer waste my time. I have bigger fish to fry in the ocean of life. For the record labeling “Britain as an irrelevant island full of irrelevant people” IS RACIST to anyone possessing an atom of IQ.

Cayenne this is not an EGO-GAME. If you do childishly want to flaunt your final word go ahead and brazenly sooth that entrapped insecurity.

For it too one day will melt in a molten sky.