2005 UK General Elections

Ozer Khalid

But you didnt explain what the crimson sun was all about?

Ozer, pointing to the rise of communalist politics is not trouble making. That is the mentality of the ostrich with the head in the sand, shooting the messenger. Communal politics of the Respect kind threatens Multicultural amity, not me. Widescale election fraud threatens democracy, not me.

Saj1981

The process was started by the Rushdie affair. That is when the Asian community started breaking down into groups, because Muslims started priveliging their religious identity over their ethnic one. The impetus came from that. You cant blame this on colonial divide and rule...nobody is holding a gun to Pakistani`s heads when they say they consider their identity to be British Muslim rather than British Asian. It is their conscious choice. Now Sikhs and Hindus want the same. This is religious politics and communalism and its the future.

Re: # 47


For `theme ` clubs in Mumbai, `Olive` and ``Suzy Wong``...good music more western than desi.My favorites are ENIGMA, a night/dance club at the JW Marriot in Juhu.Rs.1000.00 entry fee, music is a mix of western and hindi pop and ATHENA,a lounge, restaurant, nightclub, and bar all in one, and the younger generation of Bollywood celebrities and models love to hang out here, so this is the place to hang with Mumbai`s trendiest. If one is gay , Voodoo is the main hang out.There are hundreds of bars/pubs and over fifty dance clubs in Mumbai , atleast.Some of the clubs, worth mention, and i`ve been to them , are FIRE AND ICE,INSOMNIA,RAZZBERRY RHINOCEROS(kinda named after my Mrs. when she`s dressed up to attend a wedding), and , VELOCITY.

In Colaba, CAFE MONDEGAR and LEOPOLD`s are for the social set.A little too trendy for me.Copa Cabana ia another place, quite desi-texmex though.These are the lounge bar`s that i like, tho` i`m not into lounge bars a whole lot.I`ll leave you with a quote from a famous person..... ``Nightlife in Mumbai provides an enthralling experience and that one could only understand by actually exploring it``.

#46 by ozerkhalid on May 9, 2005 8:50am PT


Of course you would not dream of giving an iota of importance to the thousands of innocent Iraqi mothers and children getting pillaged and slaughtered by foreign troops?


enough of the ``oh we`re just driven by the sufferings of our fellow human beings`` already

When the pakistani army slaughtered millions of bangladeshis, was that the number issue for brit-pakistanis at that time?

When saddam hussein killed ``thousands of Iraqi mothers and children``, was military action to stop that killing the number one issue for brit-pakistanis?

No...? Didn`t think so....

ozer khalid good article and welcome to chowk

I myself was a lifelong supporter of labour this time i voted liberal democrats, mainly because of iraq war. we`ve been hearing for last 2 years that gordon brown will topple him, the problem is Blair is a slick oxford educated lawer he seems to have a talent of talking his way out of trouble,(unlike his tongue-tied buddy bush) he could sell ` ice to eskimos`.
I noticed this time he was keeping a low profile, i think it`s only a question of time before gordon topples him.

cayenne
Britain still has some of the best universities remember DNA was discovered here so was CLONING dolly the sheep.

I love that twisted logic..Pakis lag behind Hindus because ..(implied) they are Muslim..or too obsessed with Pan islamic causes..if that was so true..why are Bangladeshis in the UK at the bottom of the South Asian Socio-economic ladder? Bangladesh is a secular country and has not had a chronic rivalry with India either?

Selective application of evidence is a common nasty tactic of Islamophobes...

#53 by Zakkk on May 9, 2005 10:56am PT


Why are Bangladeshis in the UK at the bottom of the South Asian Socio-economic ladder?


who said bangladeshis don`t care more about pan-Islamic causes like Iraq?


Bangladesh is a secular country and has not had a chronic rivalry with India either?


strawman...I never claimed India being secular or Pakistan having a rivalry with India was the cause for the state brit-pakis find themselves in....

This isn`t about their home countries....This is about the brit-pakis/hindus/sikhs...don`t you think it makes more sense for them to vote based on more important things...like education or health care? And if their votes on Iraq are driven solely by their concern for human suffering, why were they silent when saddam was butchering iraqis?

Ozerkhalid

Don`t you think the way every discussion on this site ends up in a hindu-muslim trashfest, tawdry?.

In addition to interact #50, i left out the LIBRARY BAR at Taj President hotel and RESTOPUB ONYX a great drinking-eating-partying venue.There`s also GEOFFREY`S in Back Bay.`SUZIE WONG`` is the only floating bar in Mumbai.You can catch a boat at H2O Water Sports Complex and get there.Great views of the Mumbai skyline..The best pastime in mumbai is to buy booze at your local liquor store and head out with friends and get wasted, ofcourse.In India all recreation is available at reasonable prices or what the pocket will bear.Goa and Kerala are the two party states of india, due to the beautiful climate, beaches ,pubs/clubs and tourist traffic from all over the globe.Cut and paste these links and check out Mumbai.......

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=198981&page=5&pp=20

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=164579

cheers

cayenne

Re: # 48

Vivek

With reference to your statement “But to vote for a party just because of their stand on Iraq instead of the things that affect your daily life, is carrying it a bit too far”

The lacunae in your reasoning are that motives to vote often get triggered by short-sighted self-interest. That is why Maggie, the Iron Lady, got sand-bagged after the poll tax fiasco. If only causes like Iraq took a more pivotal platform rather than self-interest, democracy would come of age and be in a hale and hearty state.

So is it ballots or bullets?

A stark reality: Too many bullets. Not enough ballots.

thunder,
It is the duty of a govt. to first worry about its country`s self-interest and if that self-interest gets directed against some other country then the govt. has to do it. Tony Blair didn`t really have much of a choice. UK does depend on the USA for its daily bread and butter, so he had to join the war on Iraq. I don`t think it was a decision that he did with conviction, and I am sure any other person as PM of UK would have done the same thing. So if I had to judge Tony Blair, I would judge on things other than this issue. In short if I was a British voter, I would have voted for Tony Blair inspite of my opposition to the war on Iraq.

Re: # 55

Cayenne

Gracias a million times for your take on Mumbai`s nightlife. Sorry fellow participants, just this time my leaves wither away from the topic at hand, for Cayenne has given an exhaustive low-down on Mumbai`s nightlife, which merits a response.

Cayenne we may have started off on a wrong footing but you sound like me: a real party animal ! If you are in London we should get royally hammered as you can sip some of the finest cocktails here.

Seems that Mumbai`s impresarios excellently fling the hat of entrepreneurialism into the clubbing/nightlife scene. I guess apprehensions dissolve as you walk into an avant-garde floating bar named ``Suzie Wong``. Here in London we sometimes have ritzy boat parties
aboard the HMS Belfast, sinking into a prestigious boat-fest gala. Most boat parties leave from Westminster pier pass Embankment and end up at Greenwich.

Sounds like Mumbai`s party aficionados promenade into the inviting hospitality of the Resto Pub Onyx, Enigma and Athena. The caviar-like rarity of Mumbai`s eclectic boho chic crowd and the themed Olive venue, as well as Goa surely summon titillating tribes of party aficionados from far a field.

I usually spend time tasting the rarest champagne with chums at various London hot-spots, namely The Light Bar, Fifty which is a casino/2 restaurants V and Rama and private members club. Worthy of mention are also the Kingly Club, Number 5 Cavendish Square, Pangaea, Noble Rot, Aura, Embassy, Penthouse with a scenic view of London from its 8th floor and bespoke Sketch.

I would relish the opportunity to one day visit Mumbai and mingle with the Fashionista tribes and new-media heavy-weights flocked and cavorted unabridged and uncensored to soulful funk tinged with desi vibes ?

Converting Pound Sterling into Rupees probably means guzzling down the finest cocktails in Mumbai without having to shell out astronomical sums. The party scene in Bharat sounds like a refreshing gem as compared to the trashy tourism throw-away clubs mushrooming in and around Leicester Square.

They shall only be a crude map of disheveled memories a few months down the line.

Re: # 52

Aslam

By voting for the Liberal Democrats you, and thousands of others are garnering an evolution which will seismically stir Westminster-based politics away from its suffocating two-party stranglehold to a variegated three-party system.

Oxygenizing The Lords and Commons with pluralism.

Re: # 54

Arjun: As pointless as it is to argue with you..I shall give it a shot..the premise behind going to war in Britain was vastly different than the states..there was specific statement of a clear and imminent danger to the United Kingdom as a justification for the war..at NO time was a moral argument used. The premise was false...and as the decision to go to war effects millions of people it supersedes debates on education and health..

As far as literacy rates are concerned..there have been extensive debates on the topic some of which I have attended in Britain..and it has a lot to do with ethnic and regional variations..I could quote them to you..but I really wouldn`t wanna burst your Islamophobe bubble...

Re: # 51

Arjun, with typical neo-fascist rhetoric exhorts

“enough of the “oh we`re just driven by the sufferings of our fellow human beings already”

The above statement portrays your sentiments towards fellow human beings and speaks volumes of your lamentable attitude: Arjun why are you a character so impregnated with the heaviest chip on your shoulders? Lay it down.

Or it will ravage you into yet more hatred.

Stop trying to spin this forum into a hindu-muslim trash-fest. Grow up. That game has been played a million times before.

You carry on lifelessly lamenting

“When saddam hussein killed ``thousands of Iraqi mothers and children``, was military action to stop that killing the number one issue for brit-pakistanis?

Has your head been buried so deep in the Saharan sand that you did not take heed that Brit-Pakistanis, Brit-Hindus, Indian and Pakistani diplomats campaigned head-strong round the clock and relentlessly for years to push forward multi-lateral legislation against Saddam and his brutalities: to cite but a few concrete examples:

U.N. Security Council Resolutions 686 and 687, demanded that Iraq return all prisoners from Kuwait and renounce all involvement with terrorism.

Security Council Resolution 1373 unequivocally certified that Saddam continues to shelter and support terrorist organizations that direct violence against Iran, Israel, and Western governments.

I sincerely hope that NO ONE in this forum slants toward sympathy for a vile tyrant like Saddam. At the same time WE have fundamental problems with unilateral “machismo” by the US Congress, pushing its beak into waters without the sanctity of international treaties under the mantle of UN auspices.

Arun and Theo Van Gogh, your facts on what stance “the majority of Indian and Pakistani citizens, whether of British background or not” took against Saddam is flimsy, and legally baseless. Please be informed before waxing lyrical.

Arun and Van Gogh, your feudalistic mentality of stoking fire between Hindus and Muslims is stale.

It is precisely this rivalry-ridden lunacy which a portal like Chowk seeks to disparage.

Re: # 49

Van Gogh,

Your feudalistic mentality of stoking fire between Hindus and Muslims is stale.

It is precisely this rivalry-ridden lunacy which a portal like Chowk seeks to disparage.

Get your facts straight and stop waxing lyrical.

Re: # 57

Vivek you raise an interesting point. Just as an addendum to your comment herein lie the ``official`` benefits brought to the UK by Tony Blair and his navigation of the Labour Party . Do not buy into his ``sailing-skills`` wholesale, for at times he has pirated the seas akin to Captain Jack Sparrow, especially on Iraq, though there is a dosage of truism in a lot of these oceanic achievements:

Labour.org.uk

Labour`s top 50 achievements since being elected in 1997:

1. Lowest inflation since the 60s
2. Lowest mortgage rates for 40 years
3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage
4. Record police numbers in England and Wales
5. Cut overall crime by 30 per cent
6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools
7. Best-ever primary school results
8. Funding for every pupil in England to double (since 1997) by 2007-08
9. Lowest unemployment for 29 years
10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest counties
11. 78,700 more nurses
12. 27,400 more doctors
13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards
14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament
15. Devolved power to Welsh Assembly
16. Banned anti-personnel mines
17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice at any time
18. New Deal - helped over a million people into work
19. Local government funding has increased by a third in real terms
20. Equalised the age of consent for gay men
21. Free entry to all national museums and galleries
22. Overseas aid budget more than doubled
23. Restored city-wide government to London
24. Child benefit up 25 per cent since 1997
25. Created Sure Start to help children from low income households
26. Introduced the Disability Rights Commission
27. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & extra £100 for over-80s
28. The biggest rolling stock replacement programme ever seen on our railways
29. Negotiated the historic Good Friday Agreement in Northern Ireland
30. Over 28,000 more teachers in England schools
31. Implemented the Freedom of Information Act
32. All workers now have a right to 4 weeks’ paid holiday
33. Record rises in the state pension
34. 700,000 children lifted out of relative poverty
35. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents
36. Banned handguns
37. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent
38. Free nursery places for three and four-year-olds in England, Scotland and Wales
39. Free fruit for all four to six-year-olds at school
40. Free school milk for five, six and seven-year-olds in Wales
41. Record police numbers in Scotland
42. Implemented the Human Rights Act
43. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since the industrial revolution
44. Free TV licences for over-75s
45. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals
46. Halved maximum waiting times for NHS operations
47. Free local bus travel for the over-60s and the disabled in Wales and Scotland
48. Record number of students in higher education
49. Extended the Race Relations Act so that all public bodies and functions now have a duty to promote race equality
50. Five, six and seven-year-olds in class sizes of 30 or less


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Re: # 60

Zakkk

how do British-Pakistanis fare in the literacy rates as compared to other ethnic minorities such as Indians, Bengalis, Jamaicans, West Indians etc ?

since no moral justification was given in the UK, if any can be given at all, regarding war in Iraq do you feel it was necessary ?