Thus Fare Fake Democracies

#26
Hundreds of Indian soldiers died trying to bring peace to Sri Lanka.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/History/1987/index.html

How many SSG have died fighting the LeT?

#26 by Zakkk on May 12, 2005 10:45am PT


.the Tamil Tigers killing your Prime Minister was another example of blowback


Yes it was...but Indians never claimed to be poor innocent victims of manipulation by a super power....like you`re doing...


would you like to contribute to the article discussion


So you`re trying a cop-out?

Re: # 24 & 25 Interesting counter point.. I made another mistake which you forgot to correct. Indians do understand blowback..the Tamil Tigers killing your Prime Minister was another example of blowback...support for the people who invented the term suicide bomber was done knowingly and willingly by the Indian government (which unlike Zia reflected the wishes of the people) with the hope of reward (domination of South Asia).


There I have corrected both of you..would you like to contribute to the article discussion now like Harish..or is that beyond both your abilities?

Arjun ... you are only partially correct - one also has to understand what that ``reward``
the Pakis were expecting and planning for....

``....
the sheer scale of the blow back effect from knowingly and willingly( and in expectation of a reward - which was to get strategic depth by creating a larger islamic state which could control central asia and defeat the kafirs of india) ) fighting a proxy war for the US in the 1980`s is something which I think few non Pakistanis understand ...``

#23 by Zakkk on May 12, 2005 6:48am PT


the sheer scale of the blow back effect from knowingly and willingly( and in expectation of a reward) fighting a proxy war for the US in the 1980`s is something which I think few non Pakistanis understand




There...i`ve corrected it for you...

Re: # 18

Yup he was a PPP Senator who backed Leghari`s dismissal of the Benazir government in 1996. He also served as Punjab Provincial Minister during the initial phase of the Musharraf Fauji government..i believe he was around for a good year. If I remember right his op-ed columns in the news annoyed the powers that be last year...

Re Harish: I firmly believe unmanipulated democracy is the answer to Pakistans problems..technocratic fixes are short term at best and cannot replace institutional protection.. but the sheer scale of the blow back effect from fighting a proxy war for the US in the 1980`s is something which I think few non Pakistanis understand..it along with Zia`s rule distorted society in a way which India has never experienced...I mean even in places like Bihar how many times has the High Court been stormed by the Chief Ministers closest supporters? Also Pakistan lacks the essentials of civil society..it has no institutionalised system of student or trade unions..the media liberalisation has achieved a way of the people venting in a way which does not threaten the Military ..but it also strengthens arm chair politicians...

Re: # 21

I am ready to give democracy not 25 but 50 years if it IS democracy. As this article points out Pakistan does not have democracy, it is military fascisim at best with a pretense of public representation through a rubber stamp assembly. I am very impatient with that. Every minute that we are spending under this attrocity, is causing us to degennerate as a society and a polity - the evidence of this is every where - there is no writ of government or law any where, institutions have been destroyed, constitution has been thrown into garbage can and mob rule is everywhere. Being patient with this system of oppression is a crime against humanity

This is the name of the game in fake democracies. Nothing ever gets settled. The real power is with the army and in this case with General Musharraf who is the army chief. The rest is a charade of poor players who strut and fret on the stage for a brief period and then are heard no more.

Democracy is not something that will sprout in Pakistan one fine day. An evolving democracy is even worse than a dictatorship, which is why Pakis have not been able to put up with the few genuine representative regimes that ruled them. It needs time, and unfortunately Pakistan has always been a nation short on patience. Even the most ardent proponents of democracy like Urstruly want it as some sort of a quickfix that will eradicate the country’s myriad problems overnight, which it is not.

Give democracy time, at least 15-20 years, and during that time, the country will face all sorts of problems, but at the end of it, all the troubles taken will have been worthwhile. Until Pakis are prepared to take this risk, they’re condemned to be ruled by the military forever.

Interesting points have been highlighted in this article. Ironically, Pakistan although able to limit the liberties of its own press now seeks an extension of its policies to the States (where I may add, in this ``hub`` of free-speech, the press is highly polarised too``). This follows from an article published in the Washington Times that depicts Pakistan as a dog (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4533247.stm).

Perhaps the truth really does hurt?

Shafqat

Conspiracies or not, I dont think that Shaukat Aziz will go down so soon. During his tenure as a finance minister he has used his connection to Citibank quite effectively to launder enough money belonging to Generals and Corp commanders of napak fauj, and practically has worked as a mob accountatnt. If he goes down he will take down enough along with him. Besides, who would want to kill a goose that lays a golden egg quite too often. This white collar criminal manipulated the Stock Exchange and caused its crash which has resulted in people of Pakistan losing Rs. 600 billion (with a b) in this crash - I don`t think anyone doubts that 75% of this loot has ended up in the pckets of Generals and their underlings. This racket has proved to be collosal as compared to the Cooperative Bank fraud of Zia`s era. Probably an earthquake at the scale of 20 will get us rid of these leeches.

Re: # 17

...wasn`t this guy shafqat mahmood, a senator or something under one of those `democratic` governments...?

Nice line from Sheikh Pir ..at the end..very apt in this case as well..why is a falling out of thieves so interestiing...what we are seeing is an almost perfect repeat of Iskandier Mirza`s time the creation of the republican party etc..

Mr Mahmood I hope you actually interact with us..I am curious about where you stand having served closely with Farooq Leghari and co..also your articles seem to increasingly show a soft spot for Nawaz Sharif...

Urstruly (re #15),

May be you should ask hindus what they call you
... and the response will probably get filtered out ...

(although lately I`ve had better luck with my responses ... ahem ahem ... )

hamidm, tahmad

hindus are calling people like you kaalay kuttay

arjun ... that was mean

#11 by Urstruly on May 11, 2005 1:49pm PT


Don`t hate us because we are beautiful.


And loyal too...