Thus Fare Fake Democracies

SR #62

A slightly enlarged 14-point list of common characterisitics of fascist regimes, and a more extended discussion, can be can be found here:

Fascism Anyone?

From everything I’ve read Pakistan appears to conform to the 12/14-point description of a fascist state far more closely than any other I know of.

In any case, simply presenting a long laundry list of common characteristics of fascist regimes seems methodologically unsatisfactory without an explanation for why this set of characteristics recurs in regimes all over the globe. One possibility could be conscious imitiation of the four original Fascist regimes of Europe (Mussolini’s Italy, Hitler’s Germany, Salazar’s Portugal, Franco’s Spain). This probably occurs to an extent.

It is likely though that a much smaller number of factors is generative of the common attributes of a fascist regime. My candidate for the ideological generative principle is: the notion that human individuals are, or should be, primarily defined and circumscribed by a single characteristic – typically ‘race’, or religion, or nationality – and that they cannot or should not exist except to glorify this characteristic. The development of a full-blown fascist regime might require the presence of other factors – perhaps, a burgeoning lower middle-class of industrial workers – but I strongly suspect that the anti-individualistic principle is the ideological sine qua non.

Re: # 66 Alephnull

Thank you for the Humanism page link that discusses fascism. I shall quote a line from that article as it struck a chord with me:

...fascism’s principles are wafting in the air today, surreptitiously masquerading as something else, challenging everything we stand for. The cliché that people and nations learn from history is not only overused, but also overestimated; often we fail to learn from history, or draw the wrong conclusions. Sadly, historical amnesia is the norm...

I am not sure why you quoted this particular article because having read it I feel re-affirmed in my assertions. You, however, seem to have reached a different conclusion. So be it.

Regards

...SR

SR: There is certainly a tendancy, to greater or lesser extents, in the Bush administration to some of these things. As there is not one political party on earth, nor one human society, nor one human being, who can claim to be completely free from these vices. Chowk is littered with examples of nationalism and scapegoating, for example. So, to provide a list of human vices and associate them with Bush may be emotionally satisfying, but as I said it lies in the realm of lesser individuals than you.

The term ``fascist`` itself (as you probably know) means nothing more than a collection of sticks - representing strength in unity (since while a single stick may be easily broken, a collection of sticks is very hard to break) and was a symbol used in ancient Rome. It was adopted by Mussolini, and is most closely associated with the forms of power in Italy and Germany - namely, supremacy of the state with individual rights being totally subservient to the supposed ``greater good``.

Common sense and an ounce of intellectual honesty tells us that US form of government is a shining example that the rest of humanity has accepted. The opposite of everything fascism stands for.

Re: # 65 {``... US form of government is a shining example that the rest of humanity has accepted. The opposite of everything fascism stands for. ...``}

Ahmed sahib,

You are quite right in spirit and theory. I also, like millions the world over, embraced those same ideals in my youth that you defend and speak of here. I am (as surely you must be too) still committed to, and believe in those same ideals. In earlier messages I referred to them as the Jeffersonian ideals (though Jefferson was only one of those early visionary idealists who initiated this great civic experiment in human history). However, our point of departure is in our appraisal of the contemporary ground reality. In your view Eden is still alive and well. In my view the serpent has already done his dirty trick. You seem content with whatever exists and are unwilling to see that any ground has been lost, I on the other hand, lament the ``Paradise Lost``... In my humble view a modicum of ``...common sense and an ounce of intellectual honesty tells us that...`` something has gone badly amiss. You do not see it that way. That is perfectly fine. We can agree to disagree.

respectfully,

...SR

Re: # 75 SR

But they think of people like you or tahmad, for example, not much more than dogs. Is that the reason you are so depressed? But being a dog sure beats being a terrorist, I reckon. resistance is futile.

Re: # 77 {``... But they think of people like you or tahmad, for example, not much more than dogs. ...``}

Dear Urstruly,

I cannot speak for Ahmed sahib, but personally speaking, please rest assured that I have NEVER, not even once in 24 years, at an individual level been thought of as a dog by any of my associates. Now it depends on who in your book are these mysterious folks you refer to as they?? If its the facist elements in the elite or the neo-cons or some such other group, then I will not contest your assertion. However, my suspicion is that you mean the average, decent, friendly American people. If those are the ones you are referring to, then you just don`t know what you are talking about. I doubt if you`ve known (I mean at a presonal, close frienship level) an average American, apart from the superficial work place assocoiation or an office Christmas party. That being the case, I`m afraid you are simply projecting your own prejudice.

Respectfully,

...SR

Re: # 84

There is no need to be defensive. It will pass in a week or two and everybody will forget except a few pricks like me. I was just checking whether you will come out to defend them or not.

Re: # 85 Urstruly: {``...pricks like me...``}

What can I say...? Those are your own word, not mine. I wouldn`t have gone that far.

regards,

...SR

vivek: Please dont say I said something unless you can cut and paste what I wrote. Dont waste time claiming I said something if you ``remember right``. I think the BJP philosophy is a despicable one, but I dont go around throwing pseudo-intellectual labels like the some chowk posters do.

SR,
Agreed with you that this govt.`s policies are not the best but they are not fascists.

tahmed,
The BJP was elected to power too, but if I remember right, you did call them fascist in one of your posts.

Re: # 60 vivek

Thank you for the agreement, but on the fascist issue, please refer to response to Ahmed sahib.

...SR

SR: You may disagree with the policies of the Bush government - but as you should know, it has been elected through due process, and so cannot be called a fascist regime.

You are too intelligent to throw around terms carelessly - leave that for lesser people than you.

Re: # 59

Ahmed sahib, you are an educated man so I`ll try to appeal to your intellect. Fascism is a very commonly misunderstood term. Actually the definition of fascism is not one that is etched in stone. However, the basic traits that are generally seen as the hallmarks of a fascist system are the following:

Strong Nationalism or nationalist chauvinism: Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Identification of Enemies / Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Supremacy of Military: Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

Obsession with National Security: Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

Religion and Governmant are intertwined: Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government`s policies or actions.

Corporate Power is Protected: The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

Cronyism and Corruption: Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability.

Obssession with Crime and Punishment: Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

Supression of Labor: Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

Manipulation of Mass Media: Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly manipulated by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts: Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

Irregularity in National Elections: Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.


Based the above one would tend to conclude that the USSA (along with several other countries like Israel, Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc, etc, etc...) meets MOST if not ALL of the above outlined fascist criteria. It is not this or that adminsitration that is the real problem, it is the fundamental corruption of the system that began earlier in the last century after the war and got a strong foot-hold by the 1970s, got well-entrenched by the 1980s, fully estblished by the 1990s and completely solidified after 2000.

Now you seem to suggest that because a certain government is elected therefore it cannot be fascistic. Please recall that both Hitler and Mussolini were originally elected by their respective people.

best regards

...SR

SR:

re: #57

hope is alive!l...

and when she is lit, dark clouds can only linger and pass-by...they cannot extinguish it...they do not carry the moisture nor the thunder to extinguish hope...

god bless!

t

Re: # 58

Mr. T, (or should I say ``T. Rex``)

Hope is all we`ve got... without hope life is like a broken winged bird that cannot fly.

...SR

Urstruly

No need to justify your passive support to the atrocities, injustices and imorality of your new Masters. Most of us will not hold it against you. We know you think that you don`t have a choice... They will put you in jail if you take a moral stand. It is quite humbling isn`t it? I mean to realize that it is a lot easier to rant and rave about our principles than to live by them. Sure, we`d all like to be saints and take the consequences of our convictions, but that can get painful. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. That is what I meant when I said ``you have been assimilated... resistance is futile``...

I do not claim to be any better, but I`ve voted with my feet, not once but twice in my life. When I left Pakiland, it was as a dessenter... it cost me dearly at the time. But I left because I was disgusted... up to my eyeballs with the ultra-primitive minded Neanderthals who would run my life had I stayed back. It was an ideological divorce and I`ve never looked back. At the time I came to an America that had already changed from the one I had hoped to have moved to. As I wrote earlier, I am an uncompromising individualist and my ideological leaning was pro-Jeffersonian. After 2000 we realized that America was a ``Paradise Lost`` and I had to take my family and leave. Mind you I consider myself a true American (by choice) and one who is committed to the principles of Liberty as originally intended in the Declaration of Independence. My wife is American and comes from a southern family with a long military tradition (Patton). We, along with many others in her family, all loyal Americans, believe that the country has been hijacked by the fascists who have destroyed the true American spirit and corrupted the values that America stands for. That is why we are hated the world over. It was an ethical choice ... I call it ``Hijrat``...

While you were busy expounding the virtues of Al Qaida on the one hand and faithfully paying your taxes to Uncle Sam, thus enabling the neo-cons to further their evil agenda, I was disgruntled and planned to quit being a part of the system that I considered fundamentally unjust, exploitative and fascistic. Since you brought it up let me fill you in further.

After having taken two bus loads of protesters, at considerable expense, twelve hundred miles to Washington DC, and participated in anti-war demonstrations, promoted a nation-wide tax-revolt movement, being harassed by the Feds and been an anti-war tax protester since after 1991, we decided, with a heavy heart, to go into self-imposed exile and abandon living in the US. This has come at an enormous personal, emotional, financial and social expense. But we did it because we felt compelled.

So, no, we don`t live in a geo-dome. We do however live our lives in austere simplicity and shun the trappings of consumerism as far as reasonably possible. We do not keep a TV (or play station, x-box etc) in our house because of the children and do not subscribe to main stream news papers either. We try to minimize these corrupting influences as much as possible. Our children attend a rural Waldorf school where Mickey Mouse is not allowed and pottery, wood work, gardening, musical instruments and foreign languages are an integral part of the syllabus. But we are not anti-technology luddites either. My main source of outside information is the internet and Ham Radio. I also get several subscribed publications. I know of several brave and patriotic Americans who are keeping the struggle against the fascists alive back home. They are all waiting and preparing for the Second American Revolution, when the Jeffersonian ideals will be restored and the fascists will be defeated.

Before you go on extolling the virtues of the ummah, please remember that there are many, many genuine Americans (white, black, brown and yellow) who have nothing to do with the present fascist empire and who are paying a far bigger personal price resisting it on grounds of principle than the hypocritical fat muslims of Detroit and Houston who comfortably drive their SUVs to the mosque, bad mouth America and go pay their taxes to the fascist state religiously.

It is much easier to talk about our principles than to live by them.

Best wishes,

...SR