Fauzia’s Rejection

hamidm:

let us not mention the six letter word please...dormancy is the key word... or the eight lettered one...astaghfirallah!...;)

now

do i understand correctly coke and diet pepsi are not mentioned?

and while at it...what about the internet?

yeah i know the goat gets the goat...and i am doing my cyber `go to china to learn` bit here...and you are such a fine teacher...never once you have done a cut n paste job...

on the learning curve...t

Re: # 175

t

... you are a trouble maker !.......

......... i have successfully used my dog-eared copy of the book to indulge in my bad habit and therefore have no quarrel with mr ntsyed if he has done the same to justify his smoking - we all do what we have to do ........ maybe the women should also use the book in their struggle against their tormentors, but the risks are too great with god obviously on the mullah`s side on this issue .............. damn the goat !

hamidm:

you could have missed it...no rush....whenever...here or zehra`s board

#22 by temporal on May 20, 2005 5:00pm PT

hamidm:

pull out your dog-eared copy of the book

tell me if it mentions cigars...(ok i`ll settle for bidis too)

while at it...also tell me if it mentions cell-phones...(ok i will settle for rotary dialled phones too)...aeroplanes (not ababils)...parka...snow...am on a learning quest tonight

ntsyed sahib,

what do you think of asma jehangir and hina jilani, women who are fighting for the rights that saminasha mentions ......... borrowing from your friend echoboom`s lexicon, do you think they are :

a) kanjris
b) gashtis
c) gora-goo chatters
d) baa baa black sheeps
e) haramzadees
f) ghulamzadees
g) bayghairat
h) bayhaya

...........i am sure i have missed half a dozen other titles that people of your ilk who were trained in mansoora and akora khattak routinely bestow on these women........

Tbhai,

I know...my ideas are monstrously preposterous....

sammi:

you commie-socilaist-liberal-agnostic-gnostic-munaifque-wannabee-muslim

;)

Nyet Sahib,

As your writing style is so tangentially torturous, I only skimmed. Really, its too much to ask any intelligent and reasonable person to have to sit though such sodden displays of fireworks.

I`ve tried to make this post as CLEAR AS POSSIBLE.

1. When women in Islamic theocracies are able to
a. assemble
b. march
c. protest
d. discuss

issues significant and relevant to them, REGARDLESS of the ideological basis

AND

e. question
f. interpret
g. practice
h. perform
i. reform
j. defend
k. initiate and support laws regarding

ANY POLICY that relates to them, their national citizenry

AND

live with NO FEAR of harrassment, imprisonment, torture, exile, slander, and murder, then YOU can talk.

If you cannot understand this PRIMARY concept, we have nothing to discuss.

Re: # 155

Saminasha:
Again, the point of this piece is agency.

AGENCY:
Bibi jee...in case you missed it in your embarrassed jealousy driven anti-Islamic zealotry (that someone other than the self-proclaimed ``progressives`` are actually doing more than just yapping), that`s what my post is about too - a functional agency, not mere Jerry Springer mud-slinging talk-show antics with a chowk twist :-)~~

You could really start bragging when Muslim and formerly Muslim women make their choices without fear of reprisal, harrassment, imprisonment, torture and abuse from fundamentalist institutions and individuals. Otherwise, its all yang.
What? Still no commitment from the progressive zealots to put their money where their mouths are, i.e. no action plan beyond yapping?

Besides, if your allegation is assumed to have any weight, the fundamentalist institution and individuals have miserably failed in reprisals, harrassment, imprisoment, torture and abuse of dissenter. You and your chowk ilk are living proofs of that, don`t you think?

FYEnlightenment: most of the success stories referred to in my post are fearless choices made by individuals who witnessed the hot-air in the ``progressive`` propaganda for themselves that
- it only seeks freedom for the well-to-do mames and their zan-mureeds to run mix marathons and sport flesh in the open market. They do not wish to be the walking talking meat-shop merchandise for the sharabi and kababi elites.

- they saw the silence of this ``progressive`` bunch when the ``secular`` court aquitted and released the 5/6 violators of Mukhtaran Mai, who by the way were convicted and condemned to death by a Shari`ah court two years prior, washing-off the struggle the victim had taken on with more courage than all the bloody ``progressives`` could ever muster collectively by providing her a condescending photo-op with Shauki (who was probably fantasizing being one of the four that violated her).

As for bragging...if only it was one.

In your zeal to discredit Islam and it followers (that includes some bad elements as in every society) you missed (or probably decided not to repond to) the whole point: a challenge to the disoriented progressive bullhorns to actually do something productive instead of polluting the airwaves with their ill-informed gibrish.

Perhaps that`s too much to ask from this lot..... thus, they cling to their hollow YING! lol

Meanwhile, your ilk also needs to prove that fear of reprisal, harrassment, imprisonment, torture and abuse are from fundamentalist institutions and individuals and NOT the unIslamically influenced (farangi, hindu, communist, et al) feudal, bureucratic, autocratic, military and other such chauvinistic institutions and individuals. Case in point: Mukharan Mai, while your goldfish memory still retains the aforementioned example.

More of evidence of happy all women are in ``traditional marriages``..with all the ``honour`` bestowed upon them from their caring men....honour that clearly outweights their miserable lives.


mother lies in a coma after being shot by son. Her crime? Talking about her brutal husband on TV

Nicholas Birch in Istanbul
Saturday May 21, 2005
The Guardian

Birgul Isik had not expected to find her oldest son waiting for her at the bus station when she and four of her children returned from Istanbul to the central Anatolian province of Elazigon on Tuesday.
She certainly wasn`t expecting the 14-year-old to pull out a gun as she moved to embrace him. ``You`ve disgraced the family``, he said, and shot her five times in the head and chest. She is still in a coma.


Article continues

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For the police who charged the boy with attempted murder, and arrested his father and uncle on suspicion of incitement, it is just another example of the ``honour`` crimes that result in the deaths of scores if not hundreds of Turkish women each year. Most die for breaking the rules of propriety: they talk to men in the street, they wear the wrong clothes, they insist on education rather than an early arranged marriage.
Ms Isik`s crime was to appear on television. It was the fifth time she had fled her violent, bigamous husband. Ignored by the authorities, abandoned by her own parents, who reportedly told her ``a woman`s place is with her husband``, she finally agreed last Friday to appear on a show many have described as Turkey`s equivalent of Oprah Winfrey.

You only have to glance at Yasemin Bozkurt`s daily programme Woman`s Voice to see why. There`s the live studio audience, the frequent angry exchanges. The themes are familiar too: match-making, runaway children, violent husbands.

A radical break from Turkish TV`s traditional mix of local sitcoms and Hollywood fare, the show, like its half-a-dozen competitors, has proved a hit. Despite the early afternoon slot, it regularly rates among the country`s top 10. It has also courted controversy from the start.

The presenters see themselves as defenders of women`s rights, confronting issues that had previously been hidden away in the silence of family homes. For their critics, they are purveyors of ``victimisation TV``, using people`s suffering to improve ratings and advertising revenue.

According to RTUK, the state body that monitors - and censors - broadcasts, 3,600 viewers complained about the shows in the first three months of 2005. ``I`m fed up with watching women fight on TV``, said one. Another complained that his wife was so engrossed she no longer got up to get her children a glass of milk.

Nedim Hazar, a columnist for the conservative daily Zaman, was blunter. If the presenters refuse to make changes, he wrote this April, ``they should build a clinic, a prison and a morgue in their studios``. Events on April 16 seemed to prove the critics right.

A day after they appeared on Woman`s Voice to talk about bride exchange, a custom particularly widespread among Turkey`s Kurdish minority, two men were shot to death by a relative. A policeman was also killed trying to intervene.

Despite media outrage, the show escaped unscathed. This week`s attempted murder in Elazig changed that. On Wednesday, Kanal D announced it was suspending Woman`s Voice. Another private channel followed suit with its equivalent, You`re Not Alone. ``These programmes touch a raw nerve``, said the RTUK`s head, Fatih Karaca, in support of the closures. ``They discuss family, children, marital relations - sensitive topics to Turks - in an indecently open way.``

Yasemin Bozkurt`s peers rallied round her. Blaming the violence on the show is absurd, argued her Show TV rival Serap Ezgu. ``Let`s ban Formula 1 - it encourages speeding. Let`s ban cartoons - last month a kid jumped from the fourth floor because he thought he was Superman.``

For sociologist Ayse Oncu, the vilification of the shows has a lot to do with the audience they cultivate - lower-middle-class housewives. It`s not for nothing, she says, that critics condescendingly call the shows shanty-town TV. ``These programmes do present issues in a cheap way,`` said Leyla Pervizat, a commentator on women`s issues. ``But they are an accurate reflection of what is out there.``

There are no Turkey-wide statistics on the incidence of domestic violence, though experts estimate that at least a third of the adult female population have been victims. A series of local surveys quoted in an Amnesty International report last year suggest a higher figure.

Turkish civil society is still too weak to replace traditional social structures, and decades of huge rural exodus have probably only increased the phenomenon. There are barely a dozen women`s shelters in the country, and none is up to international standards. Their staff, women`s activists complain, often refuse access to women without ID or even those most in need of protection - women who have ``lost their honour``.

The police and judiciary are little better. Amnesty cites cases of prosecutors refusing to open domestic violence cases unless the woman was able to prove she could not work for a week.

According to reports, it was the Istanbul police who encouraged Birgul Isik to contact Yasemin Bozkurt`s show. ``Appearing on TV was as good as a death sentence,`` says Leyla Pervizat. ``What in God`s name did they think they were doing?``

For Haluk Sahin, a columnist for the liberal daily Radikal, the TV agony aunts can take credit for publicising the issue. Before they came along, he says, the audiences they cater for had no voice. ``Now that they do, what they are saying should be taken as an alarm signal. If people heed the alarm, maybe something good will come out of all this.``

Fauzia`s rejection is one of the most superficial artiles that i`ve read in quite some time.
The superior West comes to the rescue of poor Fauzia. But, of course, they had to a la
George Bush. They are always the true liberators. We should never have asked for
independence from the benign West and should have humbly remained slaves indebted to them. Maybe they would have been successful in civilizing us poor heathens. A. Bismil, i`m sorry but the sooner you get over your colonial hangover the better.

``Fauzia went back to the West and married John, who loved her for who she was: a dark, sexy, princess of the East.`` Wonderful. Keep sucking up to the West. Fauzia was everything a woman of the subcontinent is made out to be out there: mysterious, exotic, dark and sexy. We`re the sexy savages. This is one of the most degrading articles i`ve read in a long time.

John loved her and she married him. Apparently for Fauzia love is all about someone appreciating her body and sex drive. Good for her. She`s just living upto what women are portrayed to be more often than not in the media, i.e., sex symbols. Hopefully Fauzia`s marriage won`t end up in a divorce if John comes across an even sexier, exotic savage.

``She got a degree and a good job. She made herself happy. She was desirable and beautiful. Fauzia started loving herself.`` Beauty, sex and money is all that`s apparently needed to make one love oneself and be happy. Bismil just revealed the sercet of life and I am indebted to him/her. We need more Fauzias in this world to make it a better place. In the meantime, lets just not take any notice of poverty, illiteracy, dergradation of the environment, human and animal rights abuses, unfair trade practices and the millions of other problems ailing the world. As women, let`s just get oursleves a man from the West, blow up money and masturbate ourselves crazy. Way to go.

Of course Fauzia couldn`t have been indepenedent even after getting a much coveted western education for she needed a man to complete her. A civilized, western man. She needed John (and not Jahangir) to make her feel like a woman.

Bismil, maybe Fauzia got rejected not because she was dark skinned but because she was just dumb.

Listen i`m not denying the fact that we are a society obsessed with white skin and that women have to go through a lot of discrimination at various stages in life. But the shallow and patronizing attitude of your article is revolting.

I think Mr. Boom had to leave for some obvious reasons. Religiously, married men are not permissible to think about polygamy till they get permission from their wives. In Echo`s case, it was a slip of the keyboard and he is getting proper beating from his wife for making such a blunder. Mrs. Echo is exercising her rights. Based on this fiasco, Echo is no longer in the good books of sweet angels. Shaitan is smiling at him. May God guide Mr. Echo. (Amen)


Miriam: Your post reminded me of a dear old friend who wanted to get married so that her husband could carry her grocery and heavy stuff. Her apartment had almost 15-20 flight of stairs and it was difficult for her to take her stuff up and down for weekly errands. By the way, she kept on rejecting people since they were not from her clan - syed and shias (both). Finally, she has bought her own townhouse in the last year or so. Now, she is fine with taking stuff up and down since she has grown wiser.

I like the concept of ``8``. That was very thoughtful and creative. When you are used to dealing with your matters on your own, I think it is real difficult to tolerate any intrusion. I won`t welcome anyone taking my laundry to wash and fold or doing my groceries. I may appreciate someone bringing them out of the car and placing them in the kicthen. I have to take it from there. I won`t like anyone meddling with my fridge and its contents. I think living with a man is not everyone`s cup of tea. It`s fine to be romantically involved or like someone and be liked, but living with someone is difficult if you are an independent soul. All this sweetie-cutie stuff about marriage and relationships is good on the surface, but I do not think that everyone is cut out to appreciate and acknowledge the value.

It all depends on what`s important to a woman.

Fauzia wanted to be appreciated and valued. Not every woman has the same need in looking for a long term relationship. Every woman`s evolution pattern and direction is quite different.

Zahra

Echoboomjee:
#162

Such enlightened ideas! You have rendered me almost speechless, quite an accomplishment in itself. In the spirit of being enlightened may I inquire; how do you feel about a woman having multiple husbands?

Zahraj:
#165 :)

I’m thinking an even eight should do it. I mean there’s the wash, groceries, tending to kids, dishes, cooking, dusting, furniture-moving/VCR fixing type of stuff, and let’s not forget snow-shoveling. Did I miss anything?

Re: # 162

Echo,

Nope. You are missing a critical element here. If polygamy is talked about loud and clear than polyandry ought to be practiced and cherished with equal passion! We believe in the world of equal opportunities. Don`t we? After all, just letting a few Pakistani women fly a plane, train or automobile ain`t sufficient for the rest.

!

Re: # 163

Dost Mittar:

A Bimsal had a strategy in mind and that strategy was to make interactors react. She was quite successful in luring the buzzing bees of Chowk and making them think, in addition to criticizing her approach. That`s good. She had her unique style whether abrupt, flowing or terse. We do not need to read flowing styles always. We need to learn from the abruptness of life as well.

Personally, I did not like the mother`s thinking. But then even in that thinking there was concern for her daughter. That`s quite natural no matter how it`s stated.

ZahraJ#152:

I think that they give a frivolous colour to a serious subject. But maybe this was necessary to attract attention.

The solution is polygamy. No woman, chocolate or vanilla, would remain unmanned or unchained.

Ah! the grand old days of the Arabian Nights when the harem was never enough full of lasvicsous damsels. Only a long lost dream now.

``Dil ko kaee kahaaniaN, yaad cee aa kay reh gaeeN``

but the dream must live on!
`` balaa sey hUm ney naa dekhhaa, toa aur daikhain gey``

* not intended to rile anyone.

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Polygamy - The Ultimate Feminist Lifestyle
By Elizabeth Joseph

I`ve often said that if polygamy didn`t exist, the modern American career woman would have invented it. Because, despite its reputation, polygamy is the one lifestyle that offers an independent woman a real chance to ``have it all``.

One of my heroes is Dr. Martha Hughes Cannon, a physician and a plural wife who in 1896 became the first woman legislator in any U.S. state or territory. Dr. Cannon once said, ``You show me a woman who thinks about something besides cookstoves and washtubs and baby flannels, and I will show you nine times out of ten a successful mother``. With all due respect, Gloria Steinem has nothing on Dr. Cannon.

As a journalist, I work many unpredictable hours in a fast-paced environment. The news determines my schedule. But am I calling home, asking my husband to please pick up the kids and pop something in the microwave and get them to bed on time just in case I`m really late? Because of my plural marriage arrangement, I don`t have to worry. I know that when I have to work late my daughter will be at home surrounded by loving adults with whom she is comfortable and who know her schedule without my telling them. My eight-year-old has never seen the inside of a day-care center, and my husband has never eaten a TV dinner. And I know that when I get home from work, if I`m dog-tired and stressed-out, I can be alone and guilt-free. It`s a rare day when all eight of my husband`s wives are tired and stressed at the same time.

It`s helpful to think of polygamy in terms of a free-market approach to marriage. Why shouldn`t you or your daughters have the opportunity to marry the best man available, regardless of his marital status?

I married the best man I ever met. The fact that he already had five wives did not prevent me from doing that. For twenty-three years I have observed how Alex`s marriage to Margaret, Bo, Joanna, Diana, Leslie, Dawn, and Delinda has enhanced his marriage to me. The guy has hundreds of years of marital experience; as a result, he is a very skilled husband.

It`s no mystery to me why Alex loves his other wives. I`d worry about him if he didn`t. I did worry in the case of Delinda, whom I hired as my secretary when I was practicing law in Salt Lake City. Alex was in and out of my office a lot over the course of several months, and he never said a word about her. Finally, late one night on our way home from work, I said, ``Why haven`t you said anything about Delinda?``

He said, ``Why should I?``

I said, ``She`s smart, she`s beautiful. What, have you gone stupid on me?``

They were married a few months later.

Polygamy is an empowering lifestyle for women. It provides me the environment and opportunity to maximize my female potential without all the tradeoffs and compromises that attend monogamy. The women in my family are friends. You don`t share two decades of experience, and a man, without those friendships becoming very special.

I imagine that across America there are groups of young women preparing to launch careers. They sit around tables, talking about the ideal lifestyle to them in their aspirations for work, motherhood, and personal fulfillment. ``A man might be nice,`` they might muse. ``A man on our own terms,`` they might add. What they don`t realize is that there is an alternative that would allow their dreams to come true. That alternative is polygamy, the ultimate feminist lifestyle.



From a speech given by Elizabeth Joseph at ``Creating a Dialogue: Women Talking to Women``, a conference organized by the Utah chapter of the National Organization for Women. Joseph is an attorney, a journalist, and lives in Big Water, Utah.