A Bismil May 18, 2005
#237 Posted by Simran on May 22, 2005 8:34:33 pm
Fauzia`s rejection is one of the most superficial artiles that i`ve read in quite some time.
The superior West comes to the rescue of poor Fauzia. But, of course, they had to a la
George Bush. They are always the true liberators. We should never have asked for
independence from the benign West and should have humbly remained slaves indebted to them. Maybe they would have been successful in civilizing us poor heathens. A. Bismil, i`m sorry but the sooner you get over your colonial hangover the better.
``Fauzia went back to the West and married John, who loved her for who she was: a dark, sexy, princess of the East.`` Wonderful. Keep sucking up to the West. Fauzia was everything a woman of the subcontinent is made out to be out there: mysterious, exotic, dark and sexy. We`re the sexy savages. This is one of the most degrading articles i`ve read in a long time.
John loved her and she married him. Apparently for Fauzia love is all about someone appreciating her body and sex drive. Good for her. She`s just living upto what women are portrayed to be more often than not in the media, i.e., sex symbols. Hopefully Fauzia`s marriage won`t end up in a divorce if John comes across an even sexier, exotic savage.
``She got a degree and a good job. She made herself happy. She was desirable and beautiful. Fauzia started loving herself.`` Beauty, sex and money is all that`s apparently needed to make one love oneself and be happy. Bismil just revealed the sercet of life and I am indebted to him/her. We need more Fauzias in this world to make it a better place. In the meantime, lets just not take any notice of poverty, illiteracy, dergradation of the environment, human and animal rights abuses, unfair trade practices and the millions of other problems ailing the world. As women, let`s just get oursleves a man from the West, blow up money and masturbate ourselves crazy. Way to go.
Of course Fauzia couldn`t have been indepenedent even after getting a much coveted western education for she needed a man to complete her. A civilized, western man. She needed John (and not Jahangir) to make her feel like a woman.
Bismil, maybe Fauzia got rejected not because she was dark skinned but because she was just dumb.
Listen i`m not denying the fact that we are a society obsessed with white skin and that women have to go through a lot of discrimination at various stages in life. But the shallow and patronizing attitude of your article is revolting.
The superior West comes to the rescue of poor Fauzia. But, of course, they had to a la
George Bush. They are always the true liberators. We should never have asked for
independence from the benign West and should have humbly remained slaves indebted to them. Maybe they would have been successful in civilizing us poor heathens. A. Bismil, i`m sorry but the sooner you get over your colonial hangover the better.
``Fauzia went back to the West and married John, who loved her for who she was: a dark, sexy, princess of the East.`` Wonderful. Keep sucking up to the West. Fauzia was everything a woman of the subcontinent is made out to be out there: mysterious, exotic, dark and sexy. We`re the sexy savages. This is one of the most degrading articles i`ve read in a long time.
John loved her and she married him. Apparently for Fauzia love is all about someone appreciating her body and sex drive. Good for her. She`s just living upto what women are portrayed to be more often than not in the media, i.e., sex symbols. Hopefully Fauzia`s marriage won`t end up in a divorce if John comes across an even sexier, exotic savage.
``She got a degree and a good job. She made herself happy. She was desirable and beautiful. Fauzia started loving herself.`` Beauty, sex and money is all that`s apparently needed to make one love oneself and be happy. Bismil just revealed the sercet of life and I am indebted to him/her. We need more Fauzias in this world to make it a better place. In the meantime, lets just not take any notice of poverty, illiteracy, dergradation of the environment, human and animal rights abuses, unfair trade practices and the millions of other problems ailing the world. As women, let`s just get oursleves a man from the West, blow up money and masturbate ourselves crazy. Way to go.
Of course Fauzia couldn`t have been indepenedent even after getting a much coveted western education for she needed a man to complete her. A civilized, western man. She needed John (and not Jahangir) to make her feel like a woman.
Bismil, maybe Fauzia got rejected not because she was dark skinned but because she was just dumb.
Listen i`m not denying the fact that we are a society obsessed with white skin and that women have to go through a lot of discrimination at various stages in life. But the shallow and patronizing attitude of your article is revolting.
#236 Posted by ZahraJ on May 22, 2005 7:12:13 pm
#235:
[But I guess its all about sex as a woman once said to me that she is fine with all the work so long as she gets good sex every night.]
I hope she isn`t the same woman who shared with you the details on getting herpes from a Western Guy. By the way, did she leave him or decided to stay with him? I am curious, if you don`t mind.
[South Asian women are better off marying western men rather than South Asian men. ]
Why do you think that A.Bismal came up with the above? It`s so damn easy to take bits and pieces of an article and twist those bits to make your point and satisfy your ego.
How egotistical and sweet!
Note: I am still analyzing the topic under discussion therefore my post does not qualify to be considered a digression :)
[But I guess its all about sex as a woman once said to me that she is fine with all the work so long as she gets good sex every night.]
I hope she isn`t the same woman who shared with you the details on getting herpes from a Western Guy. By the way, did she leave him or decided to stay with him? I am curious, if you don`t mind.
[South Asian women are better off marying western men rather than South Asian men. ]
Why do you think that A.Bismal came up with the above? It`s so damn easy to take bits and pieces of an article and twist those bits to make your point and satisfy your ego.
How egotistical and sweet!
Note: I am still analyzing the topic under discussion therefore my post does not qualify to be considered a digression :)
#235 Posted by Pakfin on May 22, 2005 6:49:03 pm
It seems that the posts have now started to digress from the original theme. This article revolves around two things, one that it is all right for a woman to sleep around and two that South Asian women are better off marying western men rather than South Asian men.
A womans sexuality has nothing to do with sleeping around and being liberated has nothing to do with being promiscuous.
Most Indian and Pakistani women from affluent families are better off then their conterparts in the West and lead more comfortable lives. Think of the the western woman who has to get up early in the morning, make breakfast for the children, get them ready for school and then leave for work herself. In the evening she comes back home cooks dinner and helps the kids with their homework. But I guess its all about sex as a woman once said to me that she is fine with all the work so long as she gets good sex every night.
A womans sexuality has nothing to do with sleeping around and being liberated has nothing to do with being promiscuous.
Most Indian and Pakistani women from affluent families are better off then their conterparts in the West and lead more comfortable lives. Think of the the western woman who has to get up early in the morning, make breakfast for the children, get them ready for school and then leave for work herself. In the evening she comes back home cooks dinner and helps the kids with their homework. But I guess its all about sex as a woman once said to me that she is fine with all the work so long as she gets good sex every night.
#234 Posted by hamidm2 on May 22, 2005 3:21:12 pm
ntsyed,
.......... uae, eh ?............ do you realize that abu dhabi is one of the most sinful cities on earth - arn`t you afraid of divine retribution ?.............. you have a better chance of finding god in amsterdam or vegas !
.......... uae, eh ?............ do you realize that abu dhabi is one of the most sinful cities on earth - arn`t you afraid of divine retribution ?.............. you have a better chance of finding god in amsterdam or vegas !
#247 Posted by ntsyed on May 23, 2005 7:08:20 am
Re: # 234
hamidm,
Like I said, if it was up to me, I`d go straight to the heavens. Meanwhile, amsterdamned or damned vegas, abu dhabi, or dhabeji... I have to be where Allah Wills me to be and obey His orders there as they should be. One is only sinful and errs when he/she doesn`t care about the long-term and/or wants to be sinful.
:-)~~
hamidm,
Like I said, if it was up to me, I`d go straight to the heavens. Meanwhile, amsterdamned or damned vegas, abu dhabi, or dhabeji... I have to be where Allah Wills me to be and obey His orders there as they should be. One is only sinful and errs when he/she doesn`t care about the long-term and/or wants to be sinful.
:-)~~
#233 Posted by Raw_Dust on May 22, 2005 1:40:28 pm
ntsyed sahib:
ok. point well-taken.
just a question: do you think there is any State in the world today which in your opinion is similar to the Islamic State founded by Last Prophet in 1st Hijri?
My assertion originally was that a liberal democratic setup provides equal opportunities to the Individuals (irrespective of gender/race/religion) as compared to a state that draws its ideas of Justice from Muhammad`s Medinah State.
(i think, we disagree on this point)
many thanks.
ok. point well-taken.
just a question: do you think there is any State in the world today which in your opinion is similar to the Islamic State founded by Last Prophet in 1st Hijri?
My assertion originally was that a liberal democratic setup provides equal opportunities to the Individuals (irrespective of gender/race/religion) as compared to a state that draws its ideas of Justice from Muhammad`s Medinah State.
(i think, we disagree on this point)
many thanks.
#246 Posted by ntsyed on May 23, 2005 7:07:32 am
Re: # 233
Raw_Dust,
The answer to your question is Iran, but it`s not a replica of the Prophet`s (pbuh) state as it should be.
Taliban could`ve been another if they were ``guided`` and financially helped out of their religious misinterpretations and misconceptions instead of ``bombing`` them out. But that would`ve rubbed the western hegemonic plans the wrong way; as you can see from the current upheavals in the Central Asian Islamic belt. Have you noticed that the US, Israel, and Europe have recently ceased to call for general elections in predominantly Muslim countries like Pak, Saudi, etc?
To a certain extent I agree with you that a liberal democratic setup provides equal opportunities to the Individiuals (irrespective of gender/race/religion). However, one must not lose sight of the fact that there are limits to EVERY SINGLE THING in this world, in every society. And that human element is the key element where a criminal mind is always two steps ahead of the sincere masses.
Islam addresses all the aspects of the human life, because Allah made this system for us, not the Prophets (pbut) as is commonly ill-percieved. Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) did not set up the state in Madinah on his own as he had no such training. He (pbuh) was following divine Orders and showed us how to achieve this natural balance. And it can be revived today, because we have the whole system available ready to be implemented. The only thing needed is the desire and effort to do so, and one must be prepared for most severe resistence as did Prophet (pbuh) and his blessed companions.
This is not to claim that Muslims are incapable of sins and wrongdoings. They`re just as humans as anyone and everyone else. In fact it was their deviation from the true path that brought down the 1000 years of prosperity for Muslims and brought the Europe out of dark-ages. It provided a cleavage point to the enemies of humanity - not just Muslims - to shatter away the most natural way of life. The result is poking us in the eyes as we speak.
That`s what we need to change - to open our eyes and correct our ways. And in order to do that we must first study the Quran and authentic Sunnah to discern the purpose of our existence in this world; to learn to manage our emotional & physical behaviors; the difference between needs and wants, right and wrong, etc., not just at individual level but more importantly at communal and global levels.
Once we do that, we see that everything falls into place as per Islam - the most naturally balanced way of life. It is not merely a set of rituals because rituals are only expressions of faith and often people fake these expressions for various reasons. But their contradictions and hypocrisy become apparent very quickly if proper Shari`ah parameters are in place. Otherwise, we fall prey to the jali mullahs and fiend politicians like rats following the Pied piper, and that must change. But Islam bashing is hardly the answer, at least by the educated Muslims. What good is our education if we simply follow jingles, buzzwords, headlines, etc, constantly shoved down our throats?
That`s not to say that the whole western culture is a gutter and all western people are scum. But one should only adopt the good aspects of other cultures. In order to distinguish good from bad, one must have another perspective. With respect to Pakistan and other Islamic countries, an impartial study of True Islam.
Anyway, I`m doing my part. May be it`ll change a thing or two, and may be not; but not trying is not an option.
Many thanks for your kindness, jazak-Allah.
ntsyed
Raw_Dust,
The answer to your question is Iran, but it`s not a replica of the Prophet`s (pbuh) state as it should be.
Taliban could`ve been another if they were ``guided`` and financially helped out of their religious misinterpretations and misconceptions instead of ``bombing`` them out. But that would`ve rubbed the western hegemonic plans the wrong way; as you can see from the current upheavals in the Central Asian Islamic belt. Have you noticed that the US, Israel, and Europe have recently ceased to call for general elections in predominantly Muslim countries like Pak, Saudi, etc?
To a certain extent I agree with you that a liberal democratic setup provides equal opportunities to the Individiuals (irrespective of gender/race/religion). However, one must not lose sight of the fact that there are limits to EVERY SINGLE THING in this world, in every society. And that human element is the key element where a criminal mind is always two steps ahead of the sincere masses.
Islam addresses all the aspects of the human life, because Allah made this system for us, not the Prophets (pbut) as is commonly ill-percieved. Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) did not set up the state in Madinah on his own as he had no such training. He (pbuh) was following divine Orders and showed us how to achieve this natural balance. And it can be revived today, because we have the whole system available ready to be implemented. The only thing needed is the desire and effort to do so, and one must be prepared for most severe resistence as did Prophet (pbuh) and his blessed companions.
This is not to claim that Muslims are incapable of sins and wrongdoings. They`re just as humans as anyone and everyone else. In fact it was their deviation from the true path that brought down the 1000 years of prosperity for Muslims and brought the Europe out of dark-ages. It provided a cleavage point to the enemies of humanity - not just Muslims - to shatter away the most natural way of life. The result is poking us in the eyes as we speak.
That`s what we need to change - to open our eyes and correct our ways. And in order to do that we must first study the Quran and authentic Sunnah to discern the purpose of our existence in this world; to learn to manage our emotional & physical behaviors; the difference between needs and wants, right and wrong, etc., not just at individual level but more importantly at communal and global levels.
Once we do that, we see that everything falls into place as per Islam - the most naturally balanced way of life. It is not merely a set of rituals because rituals are only expressions of faith and often people fake these expressions for various reasons. But their contradictions and hypocrisy become apparent very quickly if proper Shari`ah parameters are in place. Otherwise, we fall prey to the jali mullahs and fiend politicians like rats following the Pied piper, and that must change. But Islam bashing is hardly the answer, at least by the educated Muslims. What good is our education if we simply follow jingles, buzzwords, headlines, etc, constantly shoved down our throats?
That`s not to say that the whole western culture is a gutter and all western people are scum. But one should only adopt the good aspects of other cultures. In order to distinguish good from bad, one must have another perspective. With respect to Pakistan and other Islamic countries, an impartial study of True Islam.
Anyway, I`m doing my part. May be it`ll change a thing or two, and may be not; but not trying is not an option.
Many thanks for your kindness, jazak-Allah.
ntsyed
#228 Posted by miriamk on May 22, 2005 12:34:40 pm
Ntsyed Sahib:
#212
It is painfully obvious that you are infatuated with your verbal prowess. Honestly, I usually can’t manage to get beyond the first few of your sentences, but seeing how brevity is no friend of your’s, I managed to sit through #212.
Sir, you truly are a specimen!
Thank goodness for the discerning capabilities of our women that some of them still manage to find upstanding men in a culture that is so sadly blighted.
#212
It is painfully obvious that you are infatuated with your verbal prowess. Honestly, I usually can’t manage to get beyond the first few of your sentences, but seeing how brevity is no friend of your’s, I managed to sit through #212.
Sir, you truly are a specimen!
Thank goodness for the discerning capabilities of our women that some of them still manage to find upstanding men in a culture that is so sadly blighted.
#232 Posted by ntsyed on May 22, 2005 1:29:13 pm
Re: # 228
Miriamk,
No infatuation here, whatsoever. Gross unfair generalizations have to be responded thoroughly to keep the dumbos of the world from repeating their BS propaganda. You probably log on for some light interaction, so it`s not your fault if my interacts lose your attention. Thank you for enduring the one you did, though.
I`m much obliged for your compliment, even if you`re being cynical.
Amen to your last para.
:-)~~
Miriamk,
No infatuation here, whatsoever. Gross unfair generalizations have to be responded thoroughly to keep the dumbos of the world from repeating their BS propaganda. You probably log on for some light interaction, so it`s not your fault if my interacts lose your attention. Thank you for enduring the one you did, though.
I`m much obliged for your compliment, even if you`re being cynical.
Amen to your last para.
:-)~~
#223 Posted by Saminasha on May 22, 2005 11:09:12 am
Since NYET Sahib seems to be incapable of providing any substantial evidence to back his hysterical and inaccurate claims, or at least seems not to have read a book or article written by someone ideologically neutral, I now call for the official demotion of his credibility.
He is now a barking dog, and not fit for response.
He is now a barking dog, and not fit for response.
#225 Posted by ntsyed on May 22, 2005 11:28:37 am
Re: # 223
He is now a barking dog
Sumo honey,
In the name of Allah, the Oft Forgiving and Most Merciful: I Forgive you! But`s it`s imperative you see a shrink ASAP.
sincerely,
ntsyed :-)~~
He is now a barking dog
Sumo honey,
In the name of Allah, the Oft Forgiving and Most Merciful: I Forgive you! But`s it`s imperative you see a shrink ASAP.
sincerely,
ntsyed :-)~~
#220 Posted by Saminasha on May 22, 2005 11:03:16 am
Zahra,
Lets be real....
We should run a poll on chowk and find out which gender is more educated and gainfully employed....salt on wounds and all that....
Plus, did you actually read Not a Syed`s post? I stopped....he seems to be overstimulated....
Lets be real....
We should run a poll on chowk and find out which gender is more educated and gainfully employed....salt on wounds and all that....
Plus, did you actually read Not a Syed`s post? I stopped....he seems to be overstimulated....
#227 Posted by ZahraJ on May 22, 2005 11:52:05 am
Re: # 220
Samina,
I don`t think we need to conduct any polls sholls. I do think we need to develop the basic decency of treating interactors on an equal basis. With due respect, no man (maulvi/mevlana/phd/good for nothing) can make a woman feel bad for who she is, provided she knows where she stands. I won`t give a penny`s attention to the person you are wasting your time with. He may be a pervert. Please be on your guard.
Samina,
I don`t think we need to conduct any polls sholls. I do think we need to develop the basic decency of treating interactors on an equal basis. With due respect, no man (maulvi/mevlana/phd/good for nothing) can make a woman feel bad for who she is, provided she knows where she stands. I won`t give a penny`s attention to the person you are wasting your time with. He may be a pervert. Please be on your guard.
#231 Posted by ntsyed on May 22, 2005 1:29:01 pm
Re: # 227
#227: ``He may be a pervert``
ZahraJ, in the name of Allah, the Oft Forgiving and Most Merciful: I Forgive You, Too!
:-)~~
#227: ``He may be a pervert``
ZahraJ, in the name of Allah, the Oft Forgiving and Most Merciful: I Forgive You, Too!
:-)~~
#217 Posted by Naqshbandi on May 22, 2005 10:32:51 am
ZahraJ: it seems you don`t like looking at pics of ulema...oh well...(it WAS in context of my post).
as for your comments about my comments to echoboom--well that is the shariah position if you don`t like it there`s not much i can do really. unless you can bring evidence from shariah that polygymy is not allowed or that asking the first wive`s permission is a condition of marrying again in which case i am happy to be corrected..
i pray everyday to become a majnun in the love of the Prophet insha Allah...i would be happy to be a `lunatic` then...
best wishes too!
as for your comments about my comments to echoboom--well that is the shariah position if you don`t like it there`s not much i can do really. unless you can bring evidence from shariah that polygymy is not allowed or that asking the first wive`s permission is a condition of marrying again in which case i am happy to be corrected..
i pray everyday to become a majnun in the love of the Prophet insha Allah...i would be happy to be a `lunatic` then...
best wishes too!
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