Fauzia’s Rejection

great....simply fabulous..!!
this society forces girls like fauzia to take such steps...and this sort of bullshits like:
hieght,,colour...i mean...i duno when the thinking of our ppl & especially the so called educated boys working in gud companies ..ready for "perfect marriage"..will change..huh

i have three words for you ...!!
short ,clear, ...and nice

it`s like a smallest love story i once read.
a guy asked a girl,``would you like to marry me ?``
she replied,``NO``
and they lived happily every after.!

Hi Bismil...great one,,,,welll it was very obvious that none of the paki guys would like it hehehehehhe,,,,,,well it showed......any ways,,,,its soo true,,,,,when some of you say that she should have faced the reality.....then she did she came back and started the process again and refused the guyss....welll to be honest she did the best given wht ever oportunity she got.....

welll some of u r right that to go out get a degree and job is not dificult in pakistan,,we dont have to go out....but its about opportunity,,,she got it she took it....

welll dont know wht to comment on the system as it sucks big time,,,,auntys going and searching for girl....its like a business go visit people and have free tea or meals...heheheh...any ways GOD bless every one.

scout betay tum say asay he article kee umeed thee

Chowk Guidelines:
If your post includes words or masked references that are offensive, crude, repugnant, or obscene, your post will be duly deleted.

---

Then why hasn`t this article been deleted yet ?.

She married John who loved her for what she was.So what you are implying is that people who are happily married in the East(there are quite a few) do not love their spouses or do not love them for what they are.Interesting observation but I beg to differ.It looks like the scribe has too much on his/her mind to actually bother with the ending,it sort feels hurried.So all the women who are dark should marry westerners and come back home with wonderful,bi-racial children.What a perfect solution to the endless dowries,nosey in-laws.Excellent solution!!!

it was a bit abrupt. perhaps the anticlimax is meant to be somehwat abrupt but its a bit tOO abrupt...

This is an amazing board full of interesting perspectives. The most amusing perspectives dealt with certain expectations and the fear of either losing or ignoring those expectations. I strongly believe that individuals ought to thrive as individuals first and then assigned into any cultural or religious denominations.

Re: # 311 by ZahraJ

``I strongly believe that individuals ought to thrive as individuals first and then assigned into any cultural or religious denominations.``

A noble notion indeed. However, I do wish you`d think about it in realistic terms vis-a-vis

- nature of human being
- his/her purpose in life
- his/her general behvior, needs, and wants
- his/her control over surroundings
- his/her belief systems and the need for those
- The Supernatural and paranormal forces and their influences, etc.

M`asSalaam to you and your loved ones. :-)~~

RE# NT sahib,

I don`t belong to any group or ``ILK`` as u kindly put it.

I agree to reasonable arguments put forth by either men or women. I however, do not believe in blindly following anybody or anything rather use my mind which Allah gave me to use!!!!!

Re: # 310 by sajal

I`m very glad for you that you are your own person.

My original impression of you was that of an independant and passionate person, with a knack for nothing but the truth and fairness. But it was shaken on this board. I hope the original impression is restored soon.

``I however, do not believe in blindly following anybody or anything rather use my mind which Allah gave me to use!!!!!``

Splendid!

I hope you will also incorporate NOT bashing anybody or anything blindly in your personality, and speak out against injustice even if your blood carries the guilt. For reasons I wouldn`t want to hazard a guess anymore, you failed to do that here.

Caution: the preceding statement may be more loaded than your own, so please think about it.

Please don`t be offended or feel patronized, but unlike most women here your passion reminds me of my sisters - most of them very strong independant professional ``Muslim`` women in deeds; then your innocence in some matters creates the image of my young daughter before my eyes. As it is I`m guilt-ridden for chastising you. Please forgive me for the hurt I have caused you.

I pray you grow to be a stronger, more beautiful, most independant woman you hold the promise for, like my sisters.

May Allah keep you in His Guidance and Protection.

M`asSalaam to you and your loved ones.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Re: # 300

dear echoboom,

I know my friend. Second to Allah`s infinite Blessings, I`m grateful for your endorsement and relentless support.

I never doubt you and others for a moment.

Jazak-Allah

m`asSalaam to you and your loved ones

197 by Saminasha
So is NyetSahib the latest manifestation of Echoboom? He seems handicapped in the intellectual integrity department


#207 by Saminasha on May 22, 2005 5:16am PT
Nyet Sahib,


also know you are particularly an disgusting and worthless example of a human being...but even a jackass such as yourself would be embarrassed at calling a pregnant woman ``fat``....but from what I`ve learned from desi fundos, the depths of stupidity are unfathomable....


#227 by ZahraJ

won`t give a penny`s attention to the person you are wasting your time with. He may be a pervert. Please be on your guard


#223 by Saminasha

He is now a barking dog, and not fit for response.


#273 by ShoreSahib
Re: # 271

What a truly vile and poor excuse for a man are you.

Lanat hai

Mian tum pey


NtSyed.

Please dont be mean :)

Regards.

Re: # 299

Dear escapist,

mean?

moi???

``the handicapped in the intellectual integrity department, particularly disgusting and worthless example of a human being jackass calling a pregnant woman ``fat`` desi fundo with unfathomable depths of stupidity, a pervert barking dog not fit for response truly vile and poor excuse for a man``???

You`ve summed it up very well...LOL

I hear ya, my brother! ;-)~~

Jazak-Allah

m`asSalaam to you and your loved ones.

Muslim author creates conflict by taking a stand for women

By Jessica Yadegaran

CONTRA COSTA TIMES (original publisher)

Asra Nomani stood on the curb outside the Oakland Islamic Center on Saturday, refusing to do as she was told.

``Sister,`` a male congregant pressed for the fifth time, ``there is an entrance around the back for you.``

Nomani, 39, did not respond. Instead, her black eyes burned into the man, who eventually inched far enough out of the way for Nomani to slip into the mosque, minutes before the duhr, or afternoon prayer.

She placed her brown Mary Janes next to at least 50 pairs of men`s shoes before making herself comfortable in the back of the men`s section -- the main prayer hall -- instead of upstairs, behind a glass walled space reserved for women.

Half a dozen other men circled her, insisting she go upstairs. A messenger in the form of a little girl also approached. ``My daddy said there`s a place for you upstairs,`` she chimed in.

But Nomani, the West Virginia author of ``Standing Alone in Mecca,`` did not budge. ``Thank you, my brothers,`` she said. ``But I`m comfortable praying here.``

Nomani`s cause -- to desegregate American mosques, or at least create equal access for women -- is just one of many issues Muslim women are tackling as they redefine their roles within Islam. They are the children of immigrants raised and educated, highly educated, in the United States. They want to be leaders in their mosques, and in the Bay Area, many already are.

Nomani, who sent shock waves cross-country recently when she conducted the first female-led Muslim prayer in New York City, caused the same ripple effect with her visit to the Bay Area over the weekend.

``There`s no compulsion in religion,`` says Nomani, quoting the Quran over coffee at Berkeley`s Caffe Strada. ``The mosque should be the place where people`s spirits are lifted, not devastated. It really hurts your soul.``

Many local Muslims, including women, feel that although Nomani`s intentions are good, her Rosa Parks-style tactics are extreme and counterproductive, causing dissension and hostility in the local communities she visits on her current book tour. Nomani was well-received in Washington, D.C., but harassed out of mosques in Seattle and the Upper West Side of New York City.

Most women said they don`t mind being segregated during prayer -- segregation is for purposes of modesty because the Muslim prostrations are very physical -- as long as their spaces are decent and allow views of the imam, or religious leader. But those spaces range from dark basements to low-ceiling upstairs rooms, separated from the main hall by a curtain or wall. In the case of one local mosque, a broadcast of the pulpit is piped in on a Panasonic TV.

``We have much bigger issues in our community than why women enter through a side narrow entrance while men enter through the bigger, nicer one,`` says Ruby Kazi, 27, of Sunnyvale. ``What about whether their husbands let them leave the house at all? I know women who are beaten, and they say that`s what Muslim men do. But there`s nowhere in Islam that it says that.

``If women would educate themselves about their rights, they could stand up for themselves.``

In fact, Islamic law says only that the sexes should not pray shoulder to shoulder. Some of the world`s most famous mosques, in Cairo and Fez, Morocco, separate no one. During the prophet Muhammad`s time, mosques were thriving centers for community life, where women were active participants.

``That legacy needs to be reinforced,`` says Ameena Jandali, 44, of Berkeley. Jandali is a board member of the female-founded Islamic Networks Group, an educational outreach group. ``Unfortunately, a lot of what people are calling Islam is cultural Islam. Immigrants need to realize we`re in America, and it`s the 21st century.``

Many Bay Area Muslims agree. The large wave of South Asia and Middle Eastern Muslims who immigrated in the 1960s and `70s are still running the mosques, says Shirin Sinnar, an attorney with the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights in San Francisco.

``They`re reacting to a foreign culture and trying to preserve theirs in an environment where they feel very much under attack, especially in a post-9/11 world,`` Sinnar says.

Souleiman Ghali, president of the Islamic Society of San Francisco, sighs heavily when he talks about all the work that needs to be done.

``We`re faced with the reality that we have to build and engage our own community, which includes our women, yet it is under severe pressure to prove itself as peaceful and loyal. It`s a tremendous challenge. But I think the community is living up to the challenge,`` says Ghali, adding that educational outreach has quadrupled since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. ``Prior to that it wasn`t a priority to visit a church. But now if we don`t the consequences are too high.``

Prioritizing progress and engaging all Muslims is how the Bay Area is becoming a model for change, Sinnar says.

A poll taken by the Islamic Society of North America in 2003 found that only one in three mosques allowed women to serve on their board of directors and that members` top priority was improving mosque leadership, especially on gender issues.

Although the smaller mosques are slow to change, the two largest mosques in the Bay Area have at least one woman serving on their boards. The outgoing director of AMILA, American Muslims Intent on Learning and Activism, was a woman who served for three years. At the mosque of the Muslim Community Association Islamic Center in Santa Clara, a sprawling 80,000 square-foot facility, the constitution is being rewritten to make it more women-friendly.

``It`s something we`ve wanted to update for a long time because there are so many women taking leaderships roles,`` says the mosque`s president, Razi Mohiuddin, of the group`s 25-year-old constitution. ``Some positions are open to men only, and we need to change that.``

Of the 26 committees at Muslim Community Association, Mohiuddin says about half are run by women.

That`s not to say that all sisters are sister-friendly. Nausheen Ali, a Fremont real estate broker who was raised by her single mother, prefers praying at home because of negative experiences she`s had in a local mosque.

Ali says she was harassed by an older woman when she was caught volunteering at the mosque without wearing her hijab, or head scarf.

``She said, `You`re such a good girl, such a selfless, generous girl, but all the good that you`re doing is negated by this,``` recalls Ali, 26. ``I haven`t really wanted to go back since.``

Ali is not alone. Even Sinnar, the civil rights lawyer, has had bad experiences. On a recent Friday, when she and her in-laws dropped into a small South Bay mosque, they were surprised to discover there was no area for women. Even more disturbing, Sinnar recalls, the imam told them to leave.

``This was such an alienating experience for us,`` says Sinnar. When she discussed it with her family, they decided to mobilize the community and talk to the imam about how un-Islamic his rules were. It didn`t hurt, Sinnar muses, that her father-in-law dropped more than a few times what his daughter-in-law did for a living.

It worked, sort of. Sinnar and her family were invited back, and a woman`s prayer area had been erected.

``We couldn`t see anything from the space, but for this little mosque, I see that as progress and a step in the right direction,`` she says.

In San Francisco, the progress was even greater.

On Friday, Nomani stepped into the city`s Islamic Society on Jones Street and sat in the back of the men`s prayer, just in time for the duhr. She received the usual harassment, but it didn`t last long. Ghali, the mosque`s president, not only told her she was welcome to stay, he commended her. It was the first time a woman had prayed in the main hall with the men.

``She`s raising some valid points,`` Ghali says. ``She`s putting on the pressure and making the issue alive. We cannot build our community without having women involved. I wish more women would come (and sit closer to the men).``

For Nomani, the real coup came in the form of a quiet, unknown woman who left her place behind the wall to sit beside Nomani. She stayed only for a few minutes and later told Nomani she returned to the women`s area because another woman told her to.

That made Nomani sad, but the few minutes she held that woman`s hand in the mosque made her happier than she`s been in a long time.

Jessica Yadegaran is a lifestyle reporter for the Times. Reach her at jyadegaran@cctimes.com or 925-943-8155.

To hear Asra Nomani read an excerpt from her book go to www.www.contracostatimes.com.

Re: # 297 by sajal

BTW, how come the column didn`t mention her Tantrika? Did it do so bad in sales? Probably that wouldn`t flow with the rest of the article, I suppose, and might hurt her credibility as per her mindset.

Just as I suspected, this is a PMU/MWU affiliate...at least in spirit.

:-)~~

Re: # 297
Sajal ,do you consider, womens leading friday prayers right in the view of your faith?

RE # 287

NT sahib,

I know the difference between sanity and lunacy. I also know the difference between being funny and making fun and you sir have difficulty differentiating between these.

My`` tender age`` knows the difference between being funny or being mean and sarcastic but apparently your ``delicate old age`` is catching up with you now!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: # 296 by Sajal

ohooooo....`tender age` wali baat buri lag gaee aap ko. No problem!

I`m proud of your ability to distinguish between sanity and lunacy, as well as being funny and making fun...

and you sir have difficulty differentiating between these.
Awwww...now you`ve broken my heart. Oh well....like good old Forest Gump said: ``laaife`s like a baux o` chowklates; ya neve` know wichun yer gauna get`` :(~~

My`` tender age`` knows the difference between being funny or being mean and sarcastic but apparently your ``delicate old age`` is catching up with you now!!!!!!!!!!!
Kindly inform me

- where was your knowledge when ``mean and sarcastic`` remarks were hurled at the religiously inclined, including myself?

- does it kick-in only when it bomps your ilk upside the head?

- or does it go out for grazing while a bearded Muslim - who does not question Allah`s Wisdom as a matter of faith - is the target of these?

- where was it when I overlooked a number of your provocative remarks?

But it`s okay, you don`t have to answer. I understand you`ve a dire need to fit in the ``progressive`` flock; answering these few question may jeopardize that.

We`ll settle these on the Final Day ;-)~~

Good Luck!

:-)~~

miriam:

thanks...sigh...you are right!...but to remain silent in the face of travesty is crime too:)

#286:

sir. you can turn and twist and roll and skim and skip and squirm all you want and for as long as you want...and in a fit of fancy you can imagine and gloat all you want over your cybervictories in your mind

but

you cannot escape the jaws of truth

that will catch up with you as it will catch up with every breathing soul

rgds

t

Re: # 295 by temporal

Ameen; thumma ameen!

With every passing moment of my life I look forward to the Day when the jaws of truth...catch up with every breathing soul

It seems to have caught up with you sooner than you expected.

If it helps to alleviate your sobbing induced hiccups, I`m not gloating in anything. I do not gloat over my cybervictories or street fight with gangsters. My knowledge, strength, and skills to compete in any milieu, and ensuing victory or defeat is from Allah. And in every instance I thank Allah try to learn a lesson or two from it.

Regards to you and your loved ones too :-)~~

i dont really understand the essence of this article. what is it trying to say ?

people ego`s ? our lack of virtue ?

NyetSyed,

You`ve gotten far more attention than you deserve in all your howling and spinning around trying to catch your own tail.

Something more to keep that momentum in action:

Religion, like any other systems theory is NOT based on truth. It is a set of performed practices and laws used to organize and control society. It is AS valid as any other system-and LESS effective than socialist and pluralist democracies in offering EQUAL opportunities to its citizens.

You want to believe in fairytales? Knock yourself out. But do not delude yourself for ONE SECOND that your religious beliefs are any manifestation of truth-religion is the biggest hoax SOME of humanity participates in.

Popcorn, anyone? The show`s about to begin....

Re: # 291

LOL

Typical defeatist ``progressive``....spoken from the smoldering ruins.

``You`ve gotten far more attention than you deserve in all your howling and spinning around trying to catch your own tail.``
Judging from your latest post; metaphorically speaking, rather it is you who seems to be chasing my tail with a desperate mating howl .... lol ;-)~~

Oh now look what you made me do....the humor impaired ``progressives`` will now suffer another broken heart with my unfathomable verbiage.....awwwwwwwwww

Give it up, mohterma. Take a cue from your colleagues.......cut your losses and leave while you can.

Truth appears at its designated time set by Allah. When it does, it knocks out its suppressers flat on their behinds irrespective of beards, breasts, genders, ideologies, confusion or what have you.

Sorry you got burned, but you picked up the burning coal by yourself..........ye dhuan sa kahan se uthta haaaaiii..........lol..........

No one is coaxing you into the ``biggest hoax``. It is purely your choice, if that`s what you prefer to call it.

As if once wasn`t enough, you can continue to knock YOURSELF out by quote your neutral ideologues & neutered atheism until the Truth, as in the Creator, declares who lives and who believes in fairytales.

If you wish for your intellectual urges to be satisfied....well, you know where I live. Insha Allah you`ll not return dissatisfied, if you decide to return. This portal is way too small to manage, in your case, the bitter truth as you may have witnessed it already.

ciao :-)~~

Arre nt sahib, aap to bilkul hil gaye.

I asked you why you didnt move to Iran and you started talking to me about Samina. Then about temporal. Then you give me a translation of your incomprehensible post ... and it is STILL incomprehensible - coz it has nothing to do with what I asked you. I dont care if all Muslims move to Iran - I am wondering why YOU didnt move to Iran.

Simple sa question hai - when you had a chance and still have a chance to move to the best Islamic country, why did you choose instead a westernized Islamic country? The only almost reasonable answer you gave is that Allah didnt deem it fit - but I already replied to that.

In fact I have answered everything you put to me - on this subject - but you still havent answered this simple one. Why is that?

Re: # 285 by Amrita

Amrita,

Sweetie, I do not know the cure for dyslexia or ADDS. You`ll have to consult an expert. I believe it`s a long drawn out process.

It seems you suffer from forgetfullness too, as you did not remember your own post to malik99 and myself, to which I responded.

Or may be it`s just plain old mental block due to frustration out of failure to silence a non-english-medium non-progressive bearded mullah as per your definition.

When did I ever say that I had a choice to move to Iran?

But how could I expect you, a non-Muslim, to understand the concept of Allah, His incomprehensible Powers, His Mysterious Ways, etc, when some adult Muslims here are struggling with His Existence.

Although the above response to your query was provided repeatedly, it was my mistake to take you for an open-minded person as per your claims. Kindly accept my sincere apologies for this folly.

Please feel free to continue your rant if you still fail to get it. However, whether I reply or not, the answer remains the same.

Ciao

Re: # 290

NT sahib, ``rant``? Since when is a question a rant? Now lets see -

Dyslexia and ADD - I didnt ask you about either.

Being a Muslim - My posts had nothing to do with being a Muslim or with Muslims in general [I have pointed this out before], My post has to do with you and your conviction that Allah doesnt want you in Iran as per one reply of yours. Please point out one instance where I have asked ALL muslims or even all CONSERVATIVE muslims to move to Iran?

Having the choice to move to Iran - look, when one likes a country so much that one thinks it pretty near perfect, one looks for opportunities to go there. I`m sure the sheikhs didnt come calling for you and invite you to UAE either, but you went there didnt you? Similarly, why not Iran?

Me being open-minded - one cannot be open minded for long unless one is willing to ask questions and find out more. Have I yet called you any names? Have I heaped scorn on you for liking Iran? No. I simply want to know why you have never tried to move to Iran.

Okay, I`ll tell you something - I have never yet met anyone who wants to go to Iran. I know plenty of people moving out of Iran but no one who is going into Iran. Now there is you [and a few others] who appear to really like whats going on in there... so why dont you want to go there?

Re: # 294 by Amrita

Amrita,

No, you haven`t called me names, and nor have you scroned me for liking Iran; and I`m grateful to you for your civility.

1- As I`ve said before: my most ardent wish is to go to Makkah and/or Madinah.

It has nothing to do with the system or govt or resources or anything in any given country, including Iran.

For a Muslim like me, these two places are closer to the paradise more than any other place on this earth. More than any other place, these can be short-cuts to the paradise - the desired ultimate abode for every normal human being.

2- Inspite of, or as per my wishes, when Allah Deems for me to be in Makkah/Madina, Iran, Las Vegas, etc, He will create circumstances for me to be there, which in metaphoric terms means He takes my hands and leads me there.

He Knows my future more than I do and Knows what`s better for me in this life and hereafter. I could not question His Wisdom and Plans even if I wanted to. I just have to remain steadfast in following His instructions and continue to improve my faith, humanity, and actions regardless of surroundings.

3- As for your personal observation - looking at the traffic from where you may be standing, it is possible that you never met anyone going to Iran because they are on the other side of the road, i.e. outbound traffic, TO Iran.

The ones you know are the ones amongst the inbound traffic, FROM Iran. Thus, you keep missing the people with the ``other`` mindset.

Furthermore, it is common for every country to have a segment of population that does not like the system.

Ciao :-)~~

Re: # 301

NT sahib, what a day when one person is actually grateful to another for common civility!

anyhoo - re:

outbound/inbound traffic - i see a lot of people from pakistan, india, etc who disapprove of whats taking place in their country... still eventually they have this idea that they will go home even if its just something they tell themselves out of nostalgia or homesickness. None of the Iranians I know feel that way. Its very puzzling to me because they tell me about people vanishing in the night, about a lack of freedom, about a lack of opportunity, about a country and a people who are slowly petrifying and i understand why they dont want to be there - and you tell me how things are really very different but you still dont want to be there.

Mecca/Medina - these are places every Muslim would want to go. That is not what i am concerned with. I`m talking about Iran as a lifestyle choice rather than a religious visit. Like the way so many Iranians have adopted India, for example, or even the US or UK as their country rather than just visiting Disneyworld or something [no comparison here, just an example]. I think Allah helps those who help themselves.

lil digression to illustrate point - a man hears on the radio that his house in the path of a major flood and all people in his area are advised to evacuate. he thinks, God will help me and stays put. Soon his neighbor comes along and asks him to hop a ride with him. the man refuses saying, God will help me. The floods come and the man is swept away. As he clings to a branch a man comes along on a boat and tries to help him aboard. The man refuses and says, God will help me. Finally, just before he hits a steep waterfall, rescue helicopters show up and extend a rope ladder to him. He refuses saying, God will help me. the man is swept over and is killed. On reaching heaven he asks God why He didnt help him. God says, I sent you a radio warning, a neighbor, a man in a boat and a helicopter - how much more could i help you?

Similarly...

Re: # 301

NT sahib, what a day when one person is actually grateful to another for common civility!

anyhoo - re:

outbound/inbound traffic - i see a lot of people from pakistan, india, etc who disapprove of whats taking place in their country... still eventually they have this idea that they will go home even if its just something they tell themselves out of nostalgia or homesickness. None of the Iranians I know feel that way. Its very puzzling to me because they tell me about people vanishing in the night, about a lack of freedom, about a lack of opportunity, about a country and a people who are slowly petrifying and i understand why they dont want to be there - and you tell me how things are really very different but you still dont want to be there.

Mecca/Medina - these are places every Muslim would want to go. That is not what i am concerned with. I`m talking about Iran as a lifestyle choice rather than a religious visit. Like the way so many Iranians have adopted India, for example, or even the US or UK as their country rather than just visiting Disneyworld or something [no comparison here, just an example]. I think Allah helps those who help themselves.

lil digression to illustrate point - a man hears on the radio that his house in the path of a major flood and all people in his area are advised to evacuate. he thinks, God will help me and stays put. Soon his neighbor comes along and asks him to hop a ride with him. the man refuses saying, God will help me. The floods come and the man is swept away. As he clings to a branch a man comes along on a boat and tries to help him aboard. The man refuses and says, God will help me. Finally, just before he hits a steep waterfall, rescue helicopters show up and extend a rope ladder to him. He refuses saying, God will help me. the man is swept over and is killed. On reaching heaven he asks God why He didnt help him. God says, I sent you a radio warning, a neighbor, a man in a boat and a helicopter - how much more could i help you?

Similarly...

Re: # 307

Amrita,

outbound/inbound traffic - perhaps you should assess the essence of this point in my post again.

1- it is possible that you never met anyone going to Iran because they are on the other side of the road, i.e. outbound traffic, TO Iran, i.e. you may be on the wrong side of the tracks to find the people who wish to live in Iran, or at least facing the wrong way and hoping someone will bump into you from behind.

2- it is common for every country to have a segment of population that does not like the system, vis-a-vis the Iranians you know. They have their ilk in Pakistan, India, KSA, et al. ``Progressives``, ``liberals``, ``democrats`` and ``chalabis`` are but different names of these groups. As for why the Iranian kind of this bunch doesn`t want to go back to Iran, only Allah knows best, but their stories (true or false) certainly seem to justify their move.

You may even find some Americans or Britons or Autralians who would claim ``people vanishing in the night, about a lack of freedom, about a lack of opportunity, about a country and a people who are slowly petrifying``; especially since 9/11. And these may not necessarily Muslims/Arabs/Pakistanis.

Mecca/Medina - that`s what I`m saying dear; that I don`t just want to ``visit`` there. You`re assuming the case to be just a visit. By Allah`s graces, I`ve done that already. I wish to live and be buried there - as close as possible to the center of the earth, the Ka`aba, or as close as possible to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his family and companions (Allah is pleased with them); regardless of rulers, rules, or anything mortal.

Indeed, Allah helps those who help themselves, and insha Allah He will help me establish myself there one day.

As for your lil digression - that`s what I`ve been saying all along: I`m making efforts to go to Makkah/Madinah and looking out for the ``boat`` that`ll carry me there.

Please feel free to let me know if you need further clarification.

:-)~~

ntsyed,

........ you really are a piece of art ! ...... just because you have made peace with your god and are feeling smug about having lined up forty buxom houris, or ten pretty boys, does not mean that you should go around abusing people who don`t share your jihadi fervor ......... why don`t you go down to the cyclone club and see if you can find a nice russian or iranian girl to calm you down - i am sure you have taken many clients to that place ........

Re: # 283

hamidm saheb,

Looks like at your age your memory doesn`t serve you as it should.

As in my interactions with you, I never fire the first shot. But, to expect that one`s opponent cannot respond his/her wise-ass remarks is his/her own folly.

If you notice the entire thread on this board, I consistently kept forgiving people for repeated unawrranted offenses of the ``progressive`` kind. But you have to understand that there`s always a line that must not be crossed lest a retaliation is provoked.

Nice try on your part, though.

Considering your frail disposition, I`ll overlook the last couple of remarks in your post.

Re: 278

NtSyed Sahib,

My grandmother used to say,
Handiya sey Dhakna Utha aur Kuttay ki Zaat pehchani gayi.

The lid from the Pot came off and the Dog revealed his nature.

I think this says it all. What can I say?

Re: # 282

SS,

To her devastating dismay, in your case she seems to have been revealed to more than she had hoped for.

;-)~~

Temporaljee, ShoreSahib:

Out of the deepest regard for both of you, please don’t take this man’s bait. Forget it. The two of you are in an entirely different league of men and you shouldn’t even dignify anything with a comment. Honestly, I can’t even bear to read this stuff. I’m sitting here aghast!

rgds
Miriam

#277:

* what do you think of muslims who do not read arabic, nor understand it, nor follow qur`anic guidelines in spirit going on a rampage?

They`re a million times better than murtads who never read a word of Quran and seek to change it. They are more dearer to Allah for taking a stand in spite of being faced with most advanced militaries, than the murtads who whimper away with their tails tucked between their shivering legs.

now read your own answer and do the LOL bit and ROFTL too...


** is suicide bombing allowed in the qur`an?

you still do not have the courage of your misplaced convictions to give an honest straight forward answer...

now repeat the LOL and ROFTL bit

after you have calmed down check out the qur`an 004.093

YUSUFALI: If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.
PICKTHAL: Whoso slayeth a believer of set purpose, his reward is hell for ever. Allah is wroth against him and He hath cursed him and prepared for him an awful doom.
SHAKIR: And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his punishment is hell; he shall abide in it, and Allah will send His wrath on him and curse him and prepare for him a painful chastisement.

now, i would NOT suggest the same LOL remedy...out of respect for the qur`an...

rgds

t

Re: # 279 by temporal

#1- now read your own answer and do the LOL bit and ROFTL too...

LOL ...are you sure underlined the sentence you wanted to? May be your hands are shaking too much out of hapless seething........ROTFL (sorry, can`t help it)

Let me help you....again (rolling my eyes):

What makes you think that YOU are following the Quran in ``spirit``?

For those you mention, disprespecting Allah, or anything to do with Allah, is more infuriating than if they are personally disrespected....regardless of whether they can read arabic/urdu/english or any language, or not.

More likely than not, they do not have an opportunity to do so, i.e. read, for any number of reasons in a blighted war-ravaged country. On the other hand, what excuse do you have to follow the Quran in ``selective spirit``?

Anyway, that`s why they are a million-times dearer to Allah than the ``murtads`` who renege on their pledge to Allah.

That`s why they are a million-times dearer to Allah than ``munafiqun`` who break their pledge to Allah but remind and expect of Him to keep His.


#2- now repeat the LOL and ROFTL bit

Read the following, take a deep breath, and weep harder:

The answer has been given numerous times on another board, i.e. ``it`s an inherently flawed question as it excludes the authentic ahadith``. Therefore, a flawed question can only be corrected; not answered until it is corrected.

Following the answer on the other board, your position on the Prophet (pbuh) and his authentic ahadith was asked to be clarified. Consistently you seem out of any words in that respect.

Read, take deep breaths, and weep heartily again.

I`m well aware of the translations you`ve posted. Apparently the following is very advanced stuff for you, but since you`ve asked for it....

The hallmark of unbelievers, disbelievers, non-believer, and selective believers is to seek shelter in quranic verses when their mischief is exposed and paid attention to.

More often than not, the verses they quote are out of context.

More often than not, they quote verses for specific situations and seek a blanket interpretation that would maintain their confortable ``gray zone``; and vice versa

In this case, all these verses are referring to law & order viz murder when there`s no struggle to counter an end the unwarranted oppression like the ones ongoing in Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.

ntsyed sahib:
thanks alot for the detailed reply. Islam`s way of life as professed and embodied by the Last Prophet is totally different from a liberal democratic setup. All those arguments have been delineated and gone over many times - so i find it not surprising that we have a fundamental disagreement on who is the Ultimate source of Power.

For Mohammad`s system/Islam - it is God (which you allude to the Higher wisdom that claims superior guidance to Humans) - for a Deomcratic setup it is the People and only the People without an iota of possibility of entertaining any metaphysical thing to interfere in the public space.

I would like to agree to disagree with you, here.

have a good one.
many thanks.

#273:

precise and well articulated post on the qur`an board

allah rey zoar e qal`m aur zyadah...

(tr: may God give more power to your pen)

t

#270:

* what did amrita say to rile you so much?
* do you laugh heartily at your own jokes?
* what do you think of qur`an desecration?
* what do you think of muslims who do not read arabic, nor understand it, nor follow qur`anic guidelines in spirit going on a rampage?

and finally

* is suicide bombing allowed in the qur`an?

rgds

t

Re: # 272 by temporal on May 23, 2005 1:24pm PT


* what did amrita say to rile you so much?
May be she said you`re a limp noodle, may be she didn`t

* do you laugh heartily at your own jokes?
May be I do, may be I don`t....may be I`m still laughing at your indignant haplessness or may be I`m not.

* what do you think of qur`an desecration?
Muslims who selectively believe in it to please the disciples of Satan have allowed it and Allah will hold them to account in His own way in this world and hereafter

* what do you think of muslims who do not read arabic, nor understand it, nor follow qur`anic guidelines in spirit going on a rampage?
They`re a million times better than murtads who never read a word of Quran and seek to change it. They are more dearer to Allah for taking a stand in spite of being faced with most advanced militaries, than the murtads who whimper away with their tails tucked between their shivering legs.

and finally

* is suicide bombing allowed in the qur`an?
LOL.....you`re still sizzling over that one, aren`t you kitty-cat?..............ROFTL

or is it another mighty big hairball rising in your throat? ROTFL

ps: do you know the synonym for kittens that starts with P?........LOL

Nyet Sahib,

So you WILL commit suicide if I propose for you?

Amrita,

Get the papers ready and get Nyet Sahib to a shaadi salon! ;)

Re: # 269

Amrita,

Get the papers ready and get Nyet Sahib to a shaadi salon! ;)

See Amrita, I told you......... she wants me. LOL

Re: # 269

Samina honey,

Please read carefully...your lenses are fogged up.

Who said anything about

1. my contemplating suicide at this point in my life? Or
2. my contemplating a polyandrous arrangement? With YOU? You are on Prozac, aren`t you? LOL

But you can propose if it makes you feel better; I`ll pretend to commit suicide by allowing you to smother me with your suffocating affections. But you`ll have to smother me with your suffocating affections, okay? No pretending there, alright? I think that`ll be very therapeutic for you.

Ciao

Re: # 271

What a truly vile and poor excuse for a man are you.

Lanat hai

Mian tum pey

Bay Hayayi ki Hudd hoti hai

Na Khwateen ka lehaaz, na izzat.


Temporal, Sajal, Saminasha, Miriamk and Amrita have pegged you right. Tuff hai.

Re: # 273 by ShoreSahib


LOL....do you just immitate the chakka party or are one yourself? Oh, that`s right, you`re an undecided major yet. lol

Did you clap your hands in that unique style too when you typed your post? lol

Must`ve been funny to see you do that.

BTW, Mein to sirf therapy se anger-management mein unki madad ker raha hoon.

unki izzat ko aap zyada uchhal rahay hain, chichora rung de ker.

lekin ye baat aap ko tab samajh aye jub aap k zehen se jinsiyat kharij ho chuki ho.

Re: # 278

NT sahib,

Shore sahib`s sexuality is his personal business nothing for you to make fun of................
Apni kamzaat mat dikhayee .........that post was extremely derogatory.

You sir, are a piece of work , all he said was he is confused that does not mean he will start clapping like a bandar ( maybe he should take lessons from you as you do it so well my dear NT sahib).

Life is about choices and confusion, we work through those to get where we are in life. But app to wali Allah hain app ko to koi problem nahi tabhi to app SS ka mazaq bana rahe hain............

Dear Shore Sahib, do not take notice of NT as that was the ravings and rantings of a misguided fool........Take your time and make the choices right for you whatever those are......................................

Re: # 280 by sajal

sajal bibi,

With all due respect to your political correct ``ounchi zaat``, read his post #273 again and tell me if he was NOT reaching for my jewels.

May be you`re unable to see that I STILL did not reciprocrate in his foul manner; not because there`s a shortage of such vocabulary here.

If I remember correctly, you`re the one who eloquently defined the woman as per Quran. Let me remind you your own concept of woman, albeit in different words:

A woman is the God`s manifestation of His love for His creations. She is

* a selfless mother - under whose feet lies paradise
* a loving sister - who cries more for her brother`s anguish than her own and is more happier than him on his success
* a loyal wife - who is the best friend a man can have; who cares for his heart more than her own
* a daughter - who is a culmination of all of the above in addition to being a manifestation of her father`s sensitivities and softer side; whose one drop of tear turns his life upside down.

And you`re saying that a ``confused`` gay can emulate women described above?

That he`s not rendering women as mere sex objects by:
- either pretending to be a woman for other men?
OR
- pretending/seeking/asking other men to serve him as women?

Are you too blind to see that?

All he can emulate is a deviant, a hooker, a wench, a walking-talking wholesale shop of diseases in bulk....not a woman!

If it wasn`t for a woman he wouldn`t even exist, and now his ilk has the audacity to degrade women the way they do?

Do you still think his objectification of women, including my mother, sisters, wife, daughter, is still his personal business?

Puhhhhhhhh-leeeeezzzzz!

Do you think (ma`z Allah) Allah was not paying attention when He created him as a man and you as a woman?

Why do you think Allah created men and women as He has created?

Why do you think Allah made sodomy HARAAM with one`s own wives?

So quit breaking my heart over a self-made nut-case.

Life IS about choices. But to counter the Nature, as Allah has designed and created it (including men an women), is not any more of a choice than choosing to disbelief in Allah or to commit murder or rape.

Hopefully your ilk may have learned NOT to do what you preach here, i.e. demean, degrade, humor the ones who have a different opinion than yours. In this case, the religiously inclined who oppose western decadence to be imposed on them.

You sir, are a piece of work , all he said was he is confused that does not mean he will start clapping like a bandar ( maybe he should take lessons from you as you do it so well my dear NT sahib).
Again, considering your tender age and sheltered life, and because you`re a woman like my mother, sisters, wife, and daughter, I`ll let it slide!

Urstruly Sahib:

Again, with all due respect I truly appreciate you making the concession of clarifying your posts in the future. And I really think my dad will get a kick out of your cheap shot at my ethics, values, and customs. He has a great capacity for humor and laughter :).

NyetSahib,

Why the drag queen vernacular? A bit odd coming from a self proclaimed mullahwannabe....unless of course, you represent not The House of Saud, but Ultra-Omni....

Re: # 262

Samina honey,

Take a cold shower or pop a Prozac. You seem too steamed up with the ``drag vernacular``. Better yet, if you try to stand on your legs, instead of your head, everything will make perfect sense to you.

Urstruly Sahib:

With all due respect, please take pity on illiterate folk like me who don`t understand Urdu as well as they probably should. Or if you insist on posting in Urdu at least provide a translation.

So far, all I have managed to cull from the comments is that you think NGOs are the devil`s offspring. And from your last post I understood (thanks to ShoreSahib) that you find analogies between certain animals and women amusing.

Inspite of our ideological differences, I would like to understand your overriding point. I know, perish the thought! But truly, a translation would be appreciated once in awhile. Thanks.

Re: # 261

The intended audience for my ``urdu`` posts are those people who have their roots in their own land and understand its languages, values, ethics, and customs. The first artcle that I posted was by Hafiz Shafiq-ur-Rehman and it was a masterpiece of urdu prose that is impossible to be translated at least by a mortal like me. I see that someone did translate it for you but the intended meaning was lost in translation or was that because of selcetive quoting? Anyway, I will try to clarify my posts in future but not today.

NGOs


the NGO debate is full of pitfalls in the absence of transparent accountability


* there are west based and local NGOs that declare full transparency...where full financial stream can be traced and questioned....

** then there are foreign as well as major local players that hide and camouflage their financial trail...

Re: 257
Mr Urstruly,

I think Sajal has the right prescription for dealing with ``.....`` like you.

Re: # 258

That`s ok, we are always open and available for debate (except today)

shore sahib

I am extremely busy to post a detailed reply but as far as NGOs are concerned I have written and debatde the subject extensively. In old days when Muslim lands were under colonial aggression from the West and they were being occupied the christian michinaries came along with them to prepare a goup of people, mentally and religiously, who would side with colonial powers and help exploit the local masses, under the pretext that they were spreading the word of God. The NGOs are modern day michinaries but instead of preaching the word of God they preach this new religion called secularism all to lay down the ground work for the neocolonial aggression. This time we will not let them succeed. We have showed enough tolerance to their first wave and enough is enough. A simple litmus test to check the ``sincereity`` of these pimps is to ask them if they can raise all their funding from the local sources and not to take any money from the ideological organizations in West who fund to propagate their ideology, and they will run like satan runs from auozobillah.

NGOs are anti-Muslim and anti-Pakistan. We have to put a check to this cancer before it is too late.

I have come to this conclusion it is absolute stupidity to read certain posts, the ones that are posted by the holier than thou trio..........

I do not get NTsyed`s humor, rather than being funny it disgusts me!!! He keeps contradicting himself and then throws cheap jokes to make his point, whatever it is. And poor mrs NTsyed sitting all alone while her husband keeps busy posting long meaningless posts and masturbating over his cheap shots.

Urstruly, you are the champion at posting vile urdu posts!!! what is the purpose!!!

Echo just spits out whatever foul thoughts his mind comes up with.

There are always two sides to a mirror, and it wouldn`t hurt if you looked at both from time to time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: # 256

Sajjal bibi,

I`ll try my best to tailor this response like a mini-skirt, i.e. long enough to cover the subject and short enough to keep it interesting.

Upon losing the ongoing arguments, in frustration your ilk has sought to turn the ``labor pains, barefeet and pregnant`` in my joke into a ``nigger`` thing. Lord have mercy. All the while relishing the ``smooth mocha colored canvas of beauty on which were painted the dark chocolate areolas and a black triangle of hidden mystery`` of this article.

Neither was it out of line from polyandry bit by a few wise-ass pseudo-Mames here.

While they were giggling over one for groceries, one for babies, etc., I posed another question as per arrangements of having children with all their husbands to be. All in the same vein as theirs. Too bad if it killed their joked. Frankly I was hoping you guys were more intelligent.

It was as per your westernized paradigm of ``gender equality``.

And then you guys complain why there`s an uproar over a recent cartoon.

Several ``responses`` in my mind are dying to rub the masturbating bit in your face: ``And poor mrs NTsyed sitting all alone while her husband keeps busy posting long meaningless posts and masturbating over his cheap shots.``. Some are down right hilarious too. But having given up my unIslamic ways and considering your seemingly tender age and sheltered past, I`ll let it slide. Waisay bhi, bechari Asma Jahangir & Co seem quite incapacitated these days.

I hope you enjoy the skirt, i.e. it covers your subject and remains interesting ;-)~~

cheers

Dear Malik99,

Homosexuality is a very controversial topic, and has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. I would love to answer your question in a personal email though. Feel free to email me, and I shall reply. You can find my email address on my profile page.

As far as I am concerned, actually I am not certain about my own sexuality. There are days I think I should marry a nice Pakistani girl and start a family, and on other days I ponder the alternative life style.

:)

Shorsahib # 253 - What is your stance on homosexuality (very unislamic)??

You have often (subtly) hinted that you are a gay Pakistani. The reason for my above question is not to pass a judgement, but simply to inquire. Although it is not relevant to the current debate, the trigger for my question is the islamic / unislamic issues you pointed out in your post # 253.

Regards

Mr Urstruly,
Before you post such vile MMA propaganda, have you ever stopped and thought why Asma Jahangir wants to hold Marathon races?

As your article points out that the Madar-Pidr Aazaad (free from control of mother and father) workers of the NGO`s only focus their attention on runaway girls and not on the rape victims like Mukhtair Mai and the twelve year old girl Farzana from Jhang.

Your earlier article and this one says that the only reason Asma Jahangir and her supporters want to hold Marathons is because firstly they are on the payroll of foreign countries and secondly that it is their goal to spread anarchy, lechery and indecency in the Pakistani society!

Hmmm. What could be the reason to hold Mixed-Gender Marathons out in the open? Perhaps, to increase the visibility of women in the public sphere.
Perhaps, to show people that women are equal to men.
Perhaps, to instill ideas into the mothers, daughters, and wives of Pakistani men that their women need to empowered.
Perhaps, to point out the health benefits of excercise that is absent in the lives of most Pakistani women.
Perhaps, because as equal citizens, women can and should hold marathons.

Why is that this MMA inspired GOON whose article you have posted failed to mention how the Human Rights Champions like Asma Jahangir have been trying to repeal the Hudood Ordinance because such unfair laws place the burden of proof on the victim your article writer has mentioned.

Have you ever wondered why do girls run away from home in the first place.
Maybe they are being forced to marry someone against their wishes . ( UNISLAMIC)
Maybe they want to marry someone they chose. ( Very Islamic)
Maybe they are being abused physically, verbally, sexually. ( UnIslamic)
Maybe they are denied education, the right to work, and kept at home as indentured servants.
Maybe they dont like the husband their parents forced upon them.
Maybe they are being raped by their husband every night.
Maybe they are being raped by their father in law.
Maybe they are being raped by their own father.

What social recourse do these girls have besides to runaway? And when people like Asma Jahangir help these girls in need so that they are not forced into a life of prostitution, YOU VILLIFY THEM.

You are surely perverted and Vile, while wrapping yourself in the cloak of that rotting corpse you call your Islam. I can smell the stench all the way here.

If the Holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was here, He would surely tell you, `` You do not follow my Islam``

Re:244

Mr Urstruly,

There you go posting another gem of Urdu Prose!

I have a few questions for you?

1) What kind of reaction did the Muslims create in light of the now detracted reports of the desecration of the Quran that forced the US to bend down at its knees?

2) Is that book you hold so dear printed on human created paper and human created ink so divine that it warrants the deaths of many? Those examplary Muslims who killed other Muslims in riots to prove to the world how angry they were at the desecration of the Quran.


`` If you kill one human, it is as if you have killed all humanity`` Al Quran

This Quran, of whom God himself takes responsibilty. Then how can mere humans desecrate it. They desecrated the paper and the ink the words were printed on. How can mortal humans desecrate the divine words. Are the divine words that easy to desecrate?

Is the Quran more than printed pages with ink? Only when it is read and understood, it becomes Holy. Otherwise, it is just another book, created by man and printed by man.

Zahra, the lady who cuaght Herpes is still with the guy who gave it to her.

Re: # 250

Thank you for the update.

Why did she decide to stay with this guy? Since you are her confidant and a friend probably, I am sure you would know the details.

The wise woman who shared with me her perspective was quite right. Wise women like to have a few good men in their lives. They do not lean on only one man. After all, Allah Taa`la has not created any man 100% perfect. And it`s incumbent upon women to seek for that perfection.

To the author: I see the point you`re trying to make, but why does a brown woman have to be saved from a brown man by a white man, paraphrasing a wll-know writer/critic?
Why did John have to stereotype her as well, a dark, sexy princess of the East? Why could she not have stayed single? It is the same theme as thousands of Asian writers, from Bharati Mukherjee to Monica Ali. You can live in the west and not discover yourself at all; the change had to come from within Fauzia.
I also think you make the transformation seem so facile, whereas any woman who lived in such a conservative society wouldn`t just go abroad and start having sex; she`d give it a lot of thought, and it wouldn`t be easy. Besides, the way you write about the sex makes it sound almost mechanical, almost without feeling-`masturbated herself into climax regularly`- like exfoliation and flossing.

WHERE IS NGO SCUM & MARATHON MIRASIS NOW??

Re: # 239

As-salaam o`alaikum dear malik,

Jazak-Allah for your astute observation and input :-)~~

---

FYI:
Following is what I just received in the email:

,b>The new AMERICAN `Quran`: a dangerous trick

A `new Quran` is being distributed in Kuwait, titled ``The True Furqan``.

Al-Furqan weekly magazine has found out that the two American printing ompanies;`Omega 2001` and `Wine Press` are involved in the publishing of `The True Furqan`, a book which has also been titled `The 21st Century Quran`! It is over 366 pages and is in both the Arabic and English languages...

It is being distributed to our children in Kuwait in the private English schools! The book contains 77 Surahs, which include Al-Fatiha, Al-Jana and Al-Injil. Instead of Bismillah, each Surat begins with a longer vesion of this incorporating the Christian belief of the three spirits.

And this so called Quran opposes many Islamic beliefs. In one of its ayahs it describes having more than one wife as fornication, divorce being non-permissable and it uses a new system for the sharing out of the will, opposing the current one.

It states that Jihad is HARAAM. This book even goes as far as attacking Allah, Subhanahu wa Tahala (Glory be to Him, the most high).

Brothers and Sisters please make sure you forward this email to as many people as possible so that we can stop this dangerous trick.

They are trying to poison our children and spread a disease in our ummah (nation).

They are selling this at at US$3 on HYPERLINK ``http://www.amazon.com

Even though the non-Muslims may attempt to plot and plan against Islam and Muslims, Allah also plans. And Allah is the best of planners. By Allah`s grace and will, the Muslims will be in a state of strong Iman and will be guided upon the straight path.

Allah swt has told us: `Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you (O
Muhammad Peace be upon him ) till you follow their religion. Say: ``Verily, the Guidance of Allâh (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism) that is the (only) Guidance.` (2:120)

And Allah swt has promised the belivers - and verily His promise is always fulfilled: `Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur`ân) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).`(15:9)

They will never produce ANYTHING like the Quran, now matter how hard they try:

`And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur`ân) to Our slave (Muhammad Peace be upon him ), then produce a Sûrah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allâh, if you are truthful.

But if you cannot do it, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.` (2:23-24).

Please tell everyone you know and may Allah reward you.

---

Re: # 239

Malik sahib, I absolutely agree with you. It IS a silly line of logic - however, it is not my line...

nt sahib said on several occasions that he thinks Iran is the perfect place for Muslims and he gave a number of reasons for it [I have to confess I didnt read all of it, it was rather too long and since I am not a Muslim and dont feel like moving to Iran I wasnt esp interested]. He has also held forth stridently on the issue of good Muslim living [again, I am going by the size rather than the actual content - it is once again an issue I have next to no interest in].

Having observed all this and noting that nt sahib [who i assume is a pakistani or indian] chooses to live in a middle eastern Islamic country I have to wonder why he chose the middle eastern Islamic country that works contrary to his beliefs [conclusion drawn by having visited Dubai, Abu Dhabi and one more place whose name I can never remember ... I think the name starts with an F? ... in the UAE and with lots of family and friends - Hindu, Muslim and Christian - who live there in conditions very different from those advocated by nt sahib] rather than Iran, which he feels is the shining example of life as it should be lived.

Personally, I couldnt care less where nt sahib chooses to nest. But as a matter of logic I find it puzzling that when given a choice, he chose to go to the relatively decadent UAE than the purer Iran, which is apparently doing extremely well. Its plain old curiosity.

Post 238 to which you seek exception was in rebuttal to post 230. Context.

Re: # 240

Amrita,

Your puzzling curiosity has been answered in my last post to you.

Paruntu, in my koshish of samjhing your logic from ``But as a matter of logic I find it puzzling that when given a choice, he chose to go to the relatively decadent UAE than the purer Iran, which is apparently doing extremely well.``, are you kahing that ALL Muslims jo find Iran, or any country for that maya, to be a shinning misaal, should be chhodring their current ghonslas for the paap and anneyae to thrive and phailing instead of koshishing to theek karing them, sundar nari jee?

WAH...I am qurban ja-ing on your logic, nari jee.

With due respect to your dedrh-hoshyari, hum kahing k that`s a kukri exit.

Besides, what farq that would be making jee, if I`m in UAE, Iran, Pak, Timbuktu, etc? I`ll still be karing what I`m karing here.

Dekhing the ``size`` of your rebuttal, as well as the ``content``, aap ki bottom line is dikhing to be k app ki jabar-dasti ki ``rebuttal`` was to madad your Desperately Seeking Saminasha in her be-hungam and bila-wajeh ki Islam bashing out of andhi-gender-chahat (to save her progressively soukhing thobdra), instead of logic and rationale.

Lo, ker lo baat...hain ji.

Re: # 252

nt sahib you seem to have been taking zeena lessons. or maybe you`re trying to be funny. either way, you really should have stuck to one language, you`re incomprehensible as it is so you dont need to take any extra help.

I only understood two lines from that post - ``desperately seeking saminasha`` and ``Why should I leave uae``.

I cant help you with Samina coz I think she`s already married and even if she feels like going in for polyandry, from certain things she`s let slip in the past I get the feeling that she doesnt share your high opinion of yourself so no go... sorry.

As for you leaving UAE - I would have thought someone as brilliant as you would have figured it out by now: Iran is a place which you [and others on this site] are quick to point out as the best example of Islamic living. You like everything about it - their political system, their laws, their attitudes and you would like to see it replicated. Now, you live abroad in Iran`s neighborhood. But the place in which you live is a place that doesnt follow your ideas of the ideal and it is moreover a place where you are unlikely to get the right to campaign for your ideas. So there is Iran [a place full of economic opportunity an ideological brother of yours said on the Frankenstein board I think], right next to you and here is Allah working in mysterious ways to bring up its name in front of you a dozen times a day through this site and there you are - quibbling over which language to use and petulantly posting that Allah hasnt come, picked you up and deposited you in Iran.

So why arent you in Iran?

Re: # 263

Amrita,

Since the legendary interpretor temporal is absent after caughing a large hairball. I`ll translate my #252 for you :-)~~

Re: # 240

Amrita,

Your puzzling curiosity has been answered in my last post to you.

However, in my effort to figuring out your logic from ``But as a matter of logic I find it puzzling that when given a choice, he chose to go to the relatively decadent UAE than the purer Iran, which is apparently doing extremely well.``, are you suggesting that ALL Muslims who find Iran, or any country for that matter, to be a shinning example, should abandon their current nests for the decadence to thrive and spread instead of trying to correct them, O beautiful maiden?

WOW...I am astounded by your logic, O beautiful maiden.

With due respect to your nascent intelligence, we consider it a chicken exit.

Besides, what difference that would be making jee, if I`m in UAE, Iran, Pak, Timbuktu, etc? I`ll still be doing what I`m doing here.

Looking at the ``size`` of your rebuttal, as well as the ``content``, your bottom line seems to be that your vain ``rebuttal`` was to assist your Desperately Seeking Saminasha in her Islam bashing without a rhyme or reason out of blind-gender-love (to save her progressively wilting face) instead of logic and rationale.

Re: # 263

Amrita,

I apologize for my assumption that you understand hindi or have an IQ high enough to understand jokes.

Anyway... the actual response to your query is in #248. Even though my post #252 directs you there too, I suppose you were too consumed with Saminasha`s marital status and polyandrous fantasies.

The emphasis was not to seek her hand in a polyandrous arrangement. Perhaps I`ll give it a thought when I`m when contemplating suicide. Rather it was to stress that she sought your help in defending the indefensible. But you fell for the Desperately Seeking Susan bit. How old are you, sweetie?

If you notice, she`s still trying to rouse me in #262......and then