Fauzia’s Rejection
A Bismil May 18, 2005
#59 Posted by harish_hyd on May 18, 2005 9:11:22 pm
#29 by Saminasha
[There is NO way you can prove conclusively that the Pakistani marriage institute is overwhelmingly successful. That would entail exhaustive study-and you havent done it.]
Then how come you`ve taken all Paki men to be jerks? Did you conduct an ``exhaustive study`` too?
[There is NO way you can prove conclusively that the Pakistani marriage institute is overwhelmingly successful. That would entail exhaustive study-and you havent done it.]
Then how come you`ve taken all Paki men to be jerks? Did you conduct an ``exhaustive study`` too?
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#60 Posted by cipram on May 18, 2005 10:04:50 pm
echoboom #57,
he,he , you always turn serious topic into a laughter.
thanx ,
with regards.
he,he , you always turn serious topic into a laughter.
thanx ,
with regards.
#61 Posted by terranova on May 18, 2005 10:33:21 pm
well well..
i see this articles kicked up quite the storm. seems anything that involves desi women and sex is a sure firestarter.
saminasha - what are you trying to prove by asking me what I`ve done to improve society? I didn`t claim anything. Even if I did, I don`t think I need to justify it to you.
Fauzia can make a change by not turning into one of those evil ``saas and nand`` combinatinos that so many women dread pre-marriage yet turn into themselves. Women themselves are mostly to blame for this societal aspect of our culture. I have yet to meet a pakistani guy who likes or purposely goes around rejecting girls on these dumb wife-finding trips.
i see this articles kicked up quite the storm. seems anything that involves desi women and sex is a sure firestarter.
saminasha - what are you trying to prove by asking me what I`ve done to improve society? I didn`t claim anything. Even if I did, I don`t think I need to justify it to you.
Fauzia can make a change by not turning into one of those evil ``saas and nand`` combinatinos that so many women dread pre-marriage yet turn into themselves. Women themselves are mostly to blame for this societal aspect of our culture. I have yet to meet a pakistani guy who likes or purposely goes around rejecting girls on these dumb wife-finding trips.
#62 Posted by SR on May 18, 2005 10:56:15 pm
The blame lies with the women
This is not the first time the subject has been raised on Chowk. The subject of continued treatment of our young women as if they were domesticated farm animals, raised on one farm only to be transferred to another farm to be settled so that they can begin breeding. This, of course, is the extreme model and then there are the milder varients where the owner afford some measure of latitude to the young woman so she can meet with the stud from the other farm before being committed.
It is a system that has been in place for centuries but the advent of the steam engine and gun powder started wittling away at it. Now a couple of centuries later this system is losing its grip but its still going strong in many societies. The modernists typically blame men, male dominance and patriarchy for the continuation of this system. I beg to disagree. Its the women themselves that are responsible for it. Why should the men change such a system which does not enslave them?
Its the mothers that are the banner carriers of this system. It is they who play the most pernicious role in perpetuating the model. They were treated thus, so they must in turn, ensure that the next generation fares no better.
Until the women wake up and refuse to go along nothing will change. Rights are never granted, they are fought for and earned.
Fauzia was a fighter. There need to be more Fauzias.
...SR
This is not the first time the subject has been raised on Chowk. The subject of continued treatment of our young women as if they were domesticated farm animals, raised on one farm only to be transferred to another farm to be settled so that they can begin breeding. This, of course, is the extreme model and then there are the milder varients where the owner afford some measure of latitude to the young woman so she can meet with the stud from the other farm before being committed.
It is a system that has been in place for centuries but the advent of the steam engine and gun powder started wittling away at it. Now a couple of centuries later this system is losing its grip but its still going strong in many societies. The modernists typically blame men, male dominance and patriarchy for the continuation of this system. I beg to disagree. Its the women themselves that are responsible for it. Why should the men change such a system which does not enslave them?
Its the mothers that are the banner carriers of this system. It is they who play the most pernicious role in perpetuating the model. They were treated thus, so they must in turn, ensure that the next generation fares no better.
Until the women wake up and refuse to go along nothing will change. Rights are never granted, they are fought for and earned.
Fauzia was a fighter. There need to be more Fauzias.
...SR
#63 Posted by SR on May 18, 2005 11:15:35 pm
The blame lies with the women
This is not the first time the subject has been raised on Chowk. The subject of continued treatment of our young women as if they were domesticated farm animals, raised on one farm only to be transferred to another farm to be settled so that they can begin breeding. This, of course, is the extreme model and then there are the milder varients where the owner afford some measure of latitude to the young woman so she can meet with the stud from the other farm before being committed.
It is a system that has been in place for centuries but the advent of the steam engine and gun powder started wittling away at it. Now a couple of centuries later this system is losing its grip but its still going strong in many societies. The modernists typically blame men, male dominance and patriarchy for the continuation of this system. I beg to disagree. Its the women themselves that are responsible for it. Why should the men change such a system which does not enslave them?
Its the mothers that are the banner carriers of this system. It is they who play the most pernicious role in perpetuating the model. They were treated thus, so they must in turn, ensure that the next generation fares no better.
Until the women wake up and refuse to go along nothing will change. Rights are never granted, they are fought for and earned.
Fauzia was a fighter. There need to be more Fauzias.
...SR
This is not the first time the subject has been raised on Chowk. The subject of continued treatment of our young women as if they were domesticated farm animals, raised on one farm only to be transferred to another farm to be settled so that they can begin breeding. This, of course, is the extreme model and then there are the milder varients where the owner afford some measure of latitude to the young woman so she can meet with the stud from the other farm before being committed.
It is a system that has been in place for centuries but the advent of the steam engine and gun powder started wittling away at it. Now a couple of centuries later this system is losing its grip but its still going strong in many societies. The modernists typically blame men, male dominance and patriarchy for the continuation of this system. I beg to disagree. Its the women themselves that are responsible for it. Why should the men change such a system which does not enslave them?
Its the mothers that are the banner carriers of this system. It is they who play the most pernicious role in perpetuating the model. They were treated thus, so they must in turn, ensure that the next generation fares no better.
Until the women wake up and refuse to go along nothing will change. Rights are never granted, they are fought for and earned.
Fauzia was a fighter. There need to be more Fauzias.
...SR
#64 Posted by Romair on May 18, 2005 11:44:42 pm
``Fauzia stood in front a full length mirror, staring at her naked body. Her skin was a smooth mocha colored canvas of beauty on which were painted the dark chocolate areolas and a black triangle of hidden mystery.``
Look, if you are going to start out a story, with such excitement, then could you extend and finish it with an equal amount of excitement..........What an anti-climax........
I think in Chapter 2, we need to find out how Fauzia discovers herself, a bit more..........for sociological reasons, of course............
Look, if you are going to start out a story, with such excitement, then could you extend and finish it with an equal amount of excitement..........What an anti-climax........
I think in Chapter 2, we need to find out how Fauzia discovers herself, a bit more..........for sociological reasons, of course............
#65 Posted by amrita on May 18, 2005 11:47:09 pm
Jang - you got me! Never read that one. :( Tell me more if you find it.
RE: the general discussion - none of the truly progressive men [ i.e. men who didnt have to be convinced or converted to the idea that women have an equal right to things like dignity, sexuality, politics, reproduction, free will, etc] I have ever known have ever thought of themselves as ``progressive men``. They simply held those beliefs as part of who they were.
and the reason for that is their upbringing - not just the mom or the dad but the mom and the dad. Its all very well to blame one or the other and God knows there`re enough facts on both sides to support each claim but most kids learn from the example of both parents.
RE: the general discussion - none of the truly progressive men [ i.e. men who didnt have to be convinced or converted to the idea that women have an equal right to things like dignity, sexuality, politics, reproduction, free will, etc] I have ever known have ever thought of themselves as ``progressive men``. They simply held those beliefs as part of who they were.
and the reason for that is their upbringing - not just the mom or the dad but the mom and the dad. Its all very well to blame one or the other and God knows there`re enough facts on both sides to support each claim but most kids learn from the example of both parents.
#66 Posted by rahulmal on May 19, 2005 12:12:11 am
Being the acting president of UPA (Ugly &/Unsuccessful People`s Association), I demand equal consideration from women who are pushing `look beyond the mirror`, `it doesn`t matter what you have in the vallet` garbage on this board. Yes, the fair damsels might fall for a crow but only if he has enough moolah to present a diamond ring once in a while.
#67 Posted by rozaiba on May 19, 2005 1:02:08 am
Vaisay this is a serious article. Like, alot of people say `oh that whole process of bride selection is bad and all`.... but eventually resign to the process.
Of what use `sincerity` of emotions if they are crushed for practicality and social norms?
Of what use `sincerity` of emotions if they are crushed for practicality and social norms?
#68 Posted by harimau on May 19, 2005 1:58:48 am
Ref Saminasha #52
[Echoboom Sahib,
For once I am in agreement with you. I am waiting for a heroine far more exciting than one that has the courage to practice self determination....I am looking for my muse-the desi woman who captures, interrogates, tortures and beats to death frothing fundos....that I think, would excite all of us literary types to no end...much better than mere sexual agency, dont you think?]
I think that is easily arranged. Let her join the US Army as an interprter serving in Gitmo Bay!
(Exit, bowing to applause)
[Echoboom Sahib,
For once I am in agreement with you. I am waiting for a heroine far more exciting than one that has the courage to practice self determination....I am looking for my muse-the desi woman who captures, interrogates, tortures and beats to death frothing fundos....that I think, would excite all of us literary types to no end...much better than mere sexual agency, dont you think?]
I think that is easily arranged. Let her join the US Army as an interprter serving in Gitmo Bay!
(Exit, bowing to applause)
#69 Posted by Nadia_Zehra on May 19, 2005 3:44:13 am
A tête-à-tête story
Any interest in Adab?
“Fanoon-e-Latifa” I understood
Yeah some with Poetry? I replied with my breath out for first time in the exchange.
(There was a Pause) and I was thinking as a repercussion of the conversation, no use to harm this topic.
But her only English speaking words only coming back forth induced me to reply her inquires.
It was then anguish which appeared on my faces, and with a feeling, for your interest only I am telling you…
“Yes I do poetry…”
The next disgusting thing was …. In Urdu?
I knew my compel of not using any English word during the conversation has made her mind to ask this question.
In both...I answered softly.
In English too? She stressed with claim of unbelieving?
This time his bald/fat husband altered his eye balls diagonally with some sense of appraisal at this point in whole conversation.
And I smiled just. Wish could laugh.
I just eyed my mother then and looked her feeling. I knew she would bring a Dewan for evidence if I had one.
The bamboozle in the room has now lifted to the ceiling. And I was focused to the little 2.5 years baby who was busy in collecting brand new spoons my mother has taken out from the drawer that day just to cater these guests. Now she was playing with plates. Took the whole patty in mouth, and was eager to eat the chaat despite her mommy was telling the infectivity she could get after eating. Little she could talk, more how come she listen to. But it was a fun to see her understand the English oblique commands of her Doctor mommy just like a little puppy.
The conversation was bipolar now. Among the elderly males on one corner. And focused on me at ladies side exhausting corollaries on me, my career, my hobbies, the school, colleges, universities I went through. She sensed me out some and it became apparent on her face and talk now. But I sensed emptiness as the timer my mother had given me of 5 minutes has figuratively exploded. I gave an expression of “I am leaving” to mother who visage permission and I came out of room.
She was wandering from room to room and came in my room. TeleTebiz she found hanging in my room. And that was the only word she spoke profoundly.
After they left I told my father. I don’t like them. And there are so many reasons…
Yaeh I know that he replied.
But he also subdued many queries of mine. Those daughters of Ex-Army families have a habit of speaking English though they don’t find it atypical in their hubs, communities.
Okay, okay,
I don’t like them, I said decisively to the one who matter to me the most and they respected it. And I looked at mommy who had persuaded me for the sitting. There wasn’t any air of that situation in the follow-ups
(The End)
Any interest in Adab?
“Fanoon-e-Latifa” I understood
Yeah some with Poetry? I replied with my breath out for first time in the exchange.
(There was a Pause) and I was thinking as a repercussion of the conversation, no use to harm this topic.
But her only English speaking words only coming back forth induced me to reply her inquires.
It was then anguish which appeared on my faces, and with a feeling, for your interest only I am telling you…
“Yes I do poetry…”
The next disgusting thing was …. In Urdu?
I knew my compel of not using any English word during the conversation has made her mind to ask this question.
In both...I answered softly.
In English too? She stressed with claim of unbelieving?
This time his bald/fat husband altered his eye balls diagonally with some sense of appraisal at this point in whole conversation.
And I smiled just. Wish could laugh.
I just eyed my mother then and looked her feeling. I knew she would bring a Dewan for evidence if I had one.
The bamboozle in the room has now lifted to the ceiling. And I was focused to the little 2.5 years baby who was busy in collecting brand new spoons my mother has taken out from the drawer that day just to cater these guests. Now she was playing with plates. Took the whole patty in mouth, and was eager to eat the chaat despite her mommy was telling the infectivity she could get after eating. Little she could talk, more how come she listen to. But it was a fun to see her understand the English oblique commands of her Doctor mommy just like a little puppy.
The conversation was bipolar now. Among the elderly males on one corner. And focused on me at ladies side exhausting corollaries on me, my career, my hobbies, the school, colleges, universities I went through. She sensed me out some and it became apparent on her face and talk now. But I sensed emptiness as the timer my mother had given me of 5 minutes has figuratively exploded. I gave an expression of “I am leaving” to mother who visage permission and I came out of room.
She was wandering from room to room and came in my room. TeleTebiz she found hanging in my room. And that was the only word she spoke profoundly.
After they left I told my father. I don’t like them. And there are so many reasons…
Yaeh I know that he replied.
But he also subdued many queries of mine. Those daughters of Ex-Army families have a habit of speaking English though they don’t find it atypical in their hubs, communities.
Okay, okay,
I don’t like them, I said decisively to the one who matter to me the most and they respected it. And I looked at mommy who had persuaded me for the sitting. There wasn’t any air of that situation in the follow-ups
(The End)
#72 Posted by drlokraj on May 19, 2005 4:12:31 am
It is a fact that in the sub-continent,average middle and lower middle class girls go through this very painful and egodystonic experince of being presented like a commodity in a market,and being scruitinized,bargained and rejected.So many girls go into depression or psychosomatic/somatoform illnesses.But the solution suggested here is far more fairy tail like.It is more of a fantasy rather than being plausible possibility.How many parents will be willing to,leave alone afford to take such a step.Also I fail to understand why just westernization is seen as solution for all our problems when in most cases that is actually the cause of our problem.Har chamkanay wali cheez sona nahiN hoti....we teach this to our children,how much do we follow it ouselves?
#74 Posted by shobig_sifar on May 19, 2005 4:32:53 am
Now this is a unique piece of writing! Despite being utterly demoralising, it has got quite a few morals...
- Above75% of desi females do not get married, and have to eventually delve into masturbation-and-sleeping-around habits, since hardly 25% of girls would fall into that
`special` category that renders them acceptable.
-Only desi men seek beauty and perfection, and so are selective..now that is a highly distinguishing attribute!(SHREK was an exception)
-Parents of girls should keep a reasonable sum of money safe, so that in case their daughters fail to find a legitimate partner, they could send their daughters to west, to enjoy their share of illegitimate partnerships.
-Even though, it is the boy`s mother- a woman herself- who plays the dominant role in the approval or rejection of a certain girl, still the `desi` boy is to be blamed.
-Girls and their parents do not put forth any demands or conditions whatsoever on the `laRa`s` parents, and are really really submissive. I am living in utopia, wake me up!
-Desi men do not adore mocha chokolate skins and curvy bodies.(sheer misconception- ask me!)
-Last but not the least, standing naked in front of a full-length mirror staring at your body, leads, ultimately, to masturbation!...can`t help agreeing to this bit at least.
touche :((
shobig
- Above75% of desi females do not get married, and have to eventually delve into masturbation-and-sleeping-around habits, since hardly 25% of girls would fall into that
`special` category that renders them acceptable.
-Only desi men seek beauty and perfection, and so are selective..now that is a highly distinguishing attribute!(SHREK was an exception)
-Parents of girls should keep a reasonable sum of money safe, so that in case their daughters fail to find a legitimate partner, they could send their daughters to west, to enjoy their share of illegitimate partnerships.
-Even though, it is the boy`s mother- a woman herself- who plays the dominant role in the approval or rejection of a certain girl, still the `desi` boy is to be blamed.
-Girls and their parents do not put forth any demands or conditions whatsoever on the `laRa`s` parents, and are really really submissive. I am living in utopia, wake me up!
-Desi men do not adore mocha chokolate skins and curvy bodies.(sheer misconception- ask me!)
-Last but not the least, standing naked in front of a full-length mirror staring at your body, leads, ultimately, to masturbation!...can`t help agreeing to this bit at least.
touche :((
shobig
#75 Posted by Saminasha on May 19, 2005 4:35:30 am
Harimau,
Forget Gitmo.
The payback for centuries of oppression under fundo totalitarianism will reduce Gitmo to a speck of dust. The fundos know what I`m talking about-they are so scared they are babbling ganaa shair from the halcyon days of yore....you know, when the crushing inequity of the subcontinental genders was escaped by insipid bollywood ``charm``.....
Forget Gitmo.
The payback for centuries of oppression under fundo totalitarianism will reduce Gitmo to a speck of dust. The fundos know what I`m talking about-they are so scared they are babbling ganaa shair from the halcyon days of yore....you know, when the crushing inequity of the subcontinental genders was escaped by insipid bollywood ``charm``.....
#76 Posted by echoboom on May 19, 2005 5:00:35 am
Nadia_Zehra: 69
That was really very well written. Is it yours? Translated from Urdu? from which..?
In the passage the atmosphere is leaden & time seems almost at a standstill. Superb indeed!
What a great reply to ``litlechery`` above.
Thanks.
drlokraj:
It is about ecology.
Destruction of cultural ecology. ( newly-coined term!)
Just as the white-man has plundered & pillaged the physical world [ earth water, air , & light], he is hell bent upon polluting the emotional, cultural, and spiritual world also with his poison of greed, ego and transforming the world into his own image.
It is consumerism which is strangulating humanity. It is this this Mayaa-kaa-jaal ( the net/web of material possessions). Snakes of mayaa in the closets. One has to plan, organise, and create systems just to maintain stuff one may or may not use ever. Unopened gifts; gadgets--used once only; etc etc ; Even charity and giving-away is a method, an organisation; something for which one must find time.
It is the entire foundation of western-thought which has to be razed & buried so deep that future-archaeologists should find it difficult to unearth.
That was really very well written. Is it yours? Translated from Urdu? from which..?
In the passage the atmosphere is leaden & time seems almost at a standstill. Superb indeed!
What a great reply to ``litlechery`` above.
Thanks.
drlokraj:
It is about ecology.
Destruction of cultural ecology. ( newly-coined term!)
Just as the white-man has plundered & pillaged the physical world [ earth water, air , & light], he is hell bent upon polluting the emotional, cultural, and spiritual world also with his poison of greed, ego and transforming the world into his own image.
It is consumerism which is strangulating humanity. It is this this Mayaa-kaa-jaal ( the net/web of material possessions). Snakes of mayaa in the closets. One has to plan, organise, and create systems just to maintain stuff one may or may not use ever. Unopened gifts; gadgets--used once only; etc etc ; Even charity and giving-away is a method, an organisation; something for which one must find time.
It is the entire foundation of western-thought which has to be razed & buried so deep that future-archaeologists should find it difficult to unearth.
#77 Posted by Saminasha on May 19, 2005 5:03:41 am
``Time at a standstill``....even the irony of that phrase escapes the Great Diaper Sahib....
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