Amrita Pritam

Re: # 144 dost-mittar ``Who was `we`? `We` were certainly not Punjabis but Muslims of `phoney India`, including Punjabi Muslims to demand a separate nation of all Muslims. Elementary, Mr. Watson!``

Elementary?? I don`t know what your point is. In fact I`m pretty sure you don`t even have a point to make and are just trying to obfuscate. My point is that despite all this pith-sayapa we hear all the time from Punjab Hindus about partition they, NOT Punjabi Muslims, were responsible for the crime of partitioning a nation. They, NOT Punjabi Muslims, are responsible for having extra territorial loyalties to foriegn lands and nations on the basis of religious nationalism.

What is your point??

So was Pakistan which came to be in 1947 ``fake and phoney entity`` or a nation?
Is current Pakistan a ``fake and phoney entity`` or a nation?

Do you think Punjabi Muslims of West Punjab should have just resolved to have independent nation of Punjab in 1947 instead of becoming part of another nation called Pakistan.
Is current India still a ``fake and phoney entity``?

BTW, what is a ``fake and phoney entity`` and what makes a nation?

Re: # 143 Shishapa

`Pakistan` is just as fake and phony as `India`. The best option in 1947 was without a doubt an independent Punjab, including Punjabi speaking areas of the NWFP and J & K. Once the religious fever wears off in both parts of Punjab, and there are signs that is beginning to happen, it may even once again in the future become the best option..

Ustad Daman fought for Punjabi boli single handedly for a long time.He was arrested for this ``crime`` several times by different governments.His single room where he lived in Lahore has been converted into the office of ``Daaman Academi``sarted by some his disciples.It is good to see people carrying his legacy forward.

Here is his ``Punjabinaama``

ethay boli punjabi hi boli jayegi
urdu vich kitabaaN than`di rahaygi

ehda put haaN ehday toN dudh mangdaaN
meri bhukh ehdi chhaati tan`di rahaygi

ehday lakh hareef paye hon paida
din b`din ehdi shakal ban`di rahaygi

udoN teek punjabi tay nahiN mardi
jadoN teek punjaban koyi jan`di rahaygi

---

maiN punjabi punjab da rehn waala
sadaa khair punjabi di mangna haaN
moti kisay suhagan di nath da haaN
tukRa kisay punjaban di vang da haaN

---

jadoN kaday punjabi di gull karna, faaN faaN karda fooN fooN auNda
tooN punjabi punjabi kee laayi hoyi ae, chaaN chaaN karda chooN chooN auNda
oh bolda bolda turi jaaNda, khabray meray bullhaaN nooN siuun auNda
eh gull ae maaN tay puttraaN di,koyi teesra ehday vich kyoN auNda

---

May not be on this site,but there have been a number of articles about Faiz,Noor Jahan,Alam Lohar,Fakhar Jaman,Ameen Malik,Sibtul Zaighum,Ustad Daman and others in Punjabi Tribune,Ajeet and Preetlari.Preet lari regularly publishes transcripted articles,stories and poems by pakistani punjabi writes also.Even may issue has article by a pakistani punjabi writer.
About Noor Jahan,
she is definitely heard in east punjab,but then there is Surinder Kaur who is better singer.How many pakistanis have listened to her?

Corrected

With apologies to Irfan paa`h for mistakes and more

---

Bhasha
(Irfan Malik)

Saade kol akhar han
Te shabad vi
Par boli koi nahin

tooN saadi soch da laarha
nai ban sakda
sadi dhee goongi bolhi nai
par asin hamatarh
maarhay lok aan...

saade koll akhar hann
te shabad vi
par boli da daaj nai dey sakday
saade waDheyaN, baaj besharmi
saade lai kujh vi nai chhaddeya
parh-daadeyaN dittay saah
chugatteyaN ditti haveli
goreyaN ditti bhoyeiN
sabh kha pee gaye hunh

saadi khair ay
par dheeyaN jawaan payeaN hundiyaN ne
te saade koll bass akhar han
te shabad vi
par boli koi nahin

Language
(Irfan Malik)

We have letters
And words too
But no language

You can’t be son-in-law (laarha) of our dreams
Our daughter is not dumb or deaf
But we are lowly, poor people

We have letters and words too
But we can’ give dowry of language (to our daughters)
Our elders
Haven’t left anything for us
Except sense of shame
Great grandfathers gave us breaths
Chughatay gave us haveli
British gave land
But they (elders) finished all

No worry about us
But daughters are growing up fast
And we have only letters and words
But no language (to gift)

With apoligies to Irfan paa`h for mistakes and more

---

Bhasha
(Irfan Malik)

Saade kol akhar han
Te shabad vi
Par boli koi nahin

tooN saadi soch da laarha
nai ban sakda
sadi dhee gooni bolhi nai
par asin hamatarh
maarhay lok aan

saade koll akhar hann
te shabad vi
par boli da daaj nai dey sakday
saade waDheyaN kujh vi nai chhaddeya
parh-daadeyaN dittay saah
chugatteyaN ditti haveli
goreyaN ditti bhoyeiN
sabh kha pee gaye hunh

saadi khair ay
par dheeyaN jawaan payeaN hundiyaN ne
te saade koll bass akhar han
te shabad vi
par boli koi nahin

Language
(Irfan Malik)

We have letters
And words too
But no language

You can’t be son-in-law (laarha) of our dreams
Our daughter is not dumb or deaf
But we are lowly, poor people

We have letters and words too
But we can’ give dowry of language (to our daughters)
Our elders
Haven’t left anything for us
Except sense of shame
Great grandfathers gave us breaths
Chughatay gave us haveli
British gave land
But they (elders) finished all

No worry about us
But daughters are growing up fast
And we have only letters and words
But no language (to gift)

``I don`t think a single Indian has written an article, on this site, about any Pakistani. There are only a few travelogues. Why is that? ``

Because there are none. Besides Asma Jahangir and Abdul Sattar Edhi, there are not any Pakistani worthy of writing about. At the most, rest are mediocres. That is why.

Tomorrow you will ask/demand Nobel prize committee, why have not they awarded any Pakistani any Nobel prize (assuming Abdus Salam has been disowned by Pakistanis).
Why is that, because none of them deserved it.
Sorry, you can`t demand prize parity or threaten to partition Nobel prize committee.

#(I dunno)
Noorjehan and Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan`s popularity in India.
Noorjehan is definitely more popular than NFAH. NFAK got more popularity in West than in India, except some movie songs.
That could be due to his style of Quwalli is not so hot these days in India, only Quwals who were hot in India were Sabri brothers(dunno what happened to them).

Romair: I agree with DB on crocodile tears being shed by Pakistani politicans quite often. Problem as I see it is, Kashmir is compared with Bosnia or Concentrations camps of Nazis, whereas picture is pasted as Golden of Pakistan. When the whole world(other than Indians) sees it differently.
I am no lover of Indian Politicians but you have to give them that they don`t hide their dirty laundry, of course there are serious shortcomings in there behaviours.

Also, I read somewhere before Kashmiris speak Punjabi in Pakistani Kashmir, how did that happen?
Indian Kashmiris speak their Kashmiri intact neither Urdu nor Punjabi has altered there demographics. In fact Urdu is one of the state languages out of 22. No Indian is allowed to buy land in Kashmir or Jammu. Pakistan has made Kashmir totally Punjabistan India has kept it as it was.

I met some Pak-Kashmiris ``Dar`` who speak only Punjabi or English, then I know a close Kak Kashmiri Hindu, also a ``Dar`` who only speaks Kashmiri with his family.
BTW, Dars are originally Dhar brahmins.

Anyways, enjoy your vacation and talk to you later.

Dost ji: For God`s sake we know more about Karzai`s cabinet that this poor freezing place upstairs.:-)

tooN kitay nai julleya....sachi gall te eh vaa ke tooN haale vi screen de aggay ain...tooN raatin...sorry sawere 3 wajjay vi aithey si, dupehar de 3 wajjay vi...eh kamm koi Tabbar-tohR wale bandeyaN de nai...na jaani..mainu te tere baare bahut fikkar hoan lagg piya..

na tusi Kasuri, na tusi Lahori, tusi Jammu shehar de Doghray O
magarmachh de athroo poonjh leyso, saade zakham kiyoN allay chhaiRdey O
jehRi maaN da dudh peenday O, ossey maaN nu androN kosday O
Bulleh Shah de naaN nu laO leekaN, tusi kiweiN ussdi qaum dey O

Romair#133

``main julee aan``

Reminded me of an old song:

main julee aaN
pind (chowk!) saara, te main kalli aaN :-)

Rabb kare zor-e-keyboard hor zyaada!
Jao aish karo, chhuttiyaN manao

[here`s a news for you if you are not watching Canadian news. Belinda has dumped Stephen and Peter for Paul. So, the chances for the survival of the government on Thursday are looking better]

dullahbhatti #130: ``Your taahna in #123 is naive...and can be thrown back at you too in some other respect.``

DM #126: ``There is a difference between claiming to be an expert about something -as you do about India - and being acknowledged as such by others.``

OK. I give up...............

Tusseen uchhchay, tussaan di zaat ucchhi, tussaan ucch shaher day rahen aaley
Assaan Kasuri, saadi zaat kasuri, assaan shaher Kasur day rahen aaley

.................Rab Rakha, Salaam, Bandagi, Ram Ram tay Waheguru ji ki fateh................

Time to go.........As they say in my nukkar of the pind..........``I am Julie`` (mein julee aan)

Romair, I can`t believe someone on vacation will be let to spend so much time online(your wife must be very lenient to you:-) )....

Your taahna in #123 is naive...and can be thrown back at you too in some other respect.

HP:

I agree on your new persepctive except you misunderstood me here

``I don’t agree with your contention that one should get education in mother tongue to be successful in the corporate world. That has not been proven yet. Liberals have imposed some unproven concepts on people and the dynamics of learning have proven those concepts to be wrong. More on this some other time. ``

What I was implying is that kids already learn 2 languages in Pakistani Schools (and 3 in Sindh, NWFP and Balochstan etc..which is already happening), now giving them one additional language which is their mother language should not burden them...but excuse I have heard in the past is that oh jee it is too many languages and will burden the kids....so I concluded, if it is too much burden for a kid to learn his own language then how can you expect him to outperform in other languages and areas? If one does not want to learn, fine but you can;t say it will burden them too much. Almost everyone who went to school in India learned 3 languages.

#125 Romair

``Pehno tay praho,

mein vacation tay haan. Mairay kol, tussaan subhaan day naal, hor sar khapaan da taeem nahin hay.....Tuwaday comments da shukar-gazar haan

har ikk civilization noon waqt dhay naal badaltia rahna chahida aaye.......jinaan noon Punjabi naal innah ishq hay, unnah noonh chahida haye kay ooh Cnada tay Amrika noonh chhad kay, Punjab shift hoonh...........tay udhar jaa kay Punjabi di khidmat karan......Walayat icch rahenday ho, tay aapoon Walayiti ichh gallan karday ho. Phir Punjabi aastay ainj rola paanh dha kee fayida...........

Hoor kuj neeh kar sakday, tay mairey wargoon ikk adh translation hee kar dayo.......``


That was funny :).

Enjoy your vacation and take rest. You are a good man.