Amrita Pritam

#327 by dost-mittar

“HP:
You didn`t say whether the historical information in the excerpt I posted was correct or not.”

Here is what you wrote in your post # 279 “I have been scanning Pakistani news media for almost ten years and I have not read a single article which says that Aurangzeb was not a true Muslim.”

Is there anybody in the subcontinent who would deny that Aurangzeb was a Muslim?

What different historical information did you scan from Pakistani Newspapers? Why would Pakistani Newspaper write something different?

If your emphasis is on TRUE then nobody gets to decide that. Echoboom on this site appears to be a true Muslim but he spends some of his time going to porn sites and he enjoys descriptive sex (read his interacts on some threads) So is he a true Muslim?
True Muslim is just a figure of speech. Nobody knows what a true Muslim is!

DM/KAURA/DILLI
Thanks a lot.
I know the confusion about the religeous identity historically and the discussions which took place between arya samajis and singh sabha at Lahore.One of the founders op sigh sabha and the editor of their first official periodical was Giani Ditt Singh who himself was a member of arya samaj at one stage.His most fierce arguements took place with swami Daya Nand himself where he defeated swami and hence after sikhs started moving away from arya samaj.Recently his biography has been published.

Sikhs still dont have clear cut separate identity.They still stick to castes.Giani Ditt was almost forgotten because he was from lower caste.They keep saying this that all PPs were from lower castes,but still practice casteism in the same way as hindus do.Still many sikhs follow the old hindu rituals like immersing ashes at Haridwar.As kaura said earlier,they will marry their chlidren in hindu families but not in ``lower caste``sikh families.I am sure you will say it is a process of evolution and because of common ancestral pool,some vestigial traditions are bound to be there and will die out gradually.I am not sure of this,hence happy to be atheist.My wife goes to Gurudwara,but I am happy to stay at home.

DM ji,you are right about the common village deities but sadly that tradition is dying down.In my village,there was a similar place-nobody new about its history-just called baba ThakkraN wala.My friend`s grandfather,who was ex INA soldier started living there may be because of some domestic problem and he made the place more popular.Occasionally somebody will organize akhand paath there but during the 80s,he was killed and now there is a huge gurudwara by the name gurudwara baba Thakkar ji.After a few years it will be only a sikh place,not common place as the polarization has already started.

DM,
Thanks, I knew it but was`nt sure about it.

Sindhis are interesting, they goto Gurudwara for all major rituals(marriage, birth, death), younger generation is going away from the Gurudwara(you are right).

Shish: Kiske age been baja raha hai yaar. Tumcha Kal Waste kareel.
A real Sikh would see all the descrepancies and take the charge to fix them, not use these matters excuses to let go of Sikhi.

I just met a man yesterday, who had disasscociated himself from the not only Sikhs but also Indians. His argument was why go to the Gurudwara, where people have politics.

Only weak feeble minded people talk like that, real Khalsa work even harder to make the difference.
Imagine if Guru Nanak had said, ``O` Why bother let them go where they are going, let me meditate in peace`` instead of doing what he did.
This character is not a Sikh, he is in love with his own ego, that`s it.

delhiwalla:

Guru Angad Devji was a Trehan Khatri.
About Sindhis, from my own circle it seems that the sikhi tradition among younger Sindhis is dying. Forced to make a choice between a sikh or a hindu identity, the younger ones are not coming to the gurudwara any more, at least not in Ottawa.

HP:
You didn`t say whether the historical information in the excerpt I posted was correct or not.

323,

This is taking place again today.


Manikaran in the Parvati valley is beautiful and pictureseque drive. There are hot springs. A gurudwara and mandir share common ground and langar (kitchen). The mutherfukking `sadhus` are stoned with narcotics, inappropriate with women.....hassle pilgrims (mostly sikhs)....They have installed Hindu idols in the gurudwara. I threw away the `parsad` received at the mandir.... and refused the langar....ran out of there after 5 minutes......took us 4 hour drive to get there..... told the others to do the same. The place is filthy.

I did the samething - threw away the parsad at ``Gurudwara Chola Sb.`` - Dera Baba Nanak near the Pak border opposite Narowal/Kartarpur. I wasn`t taking any parsad from mutherfukking mahants....and their business.....

#317 shishapa

I cannot change your attempt to put spin on something I wrote. You need to read history and learn a few things before hitting the Keyboard.
Your RSS trained head will clear up once you begin to read history instead of RSS.org

The Mahants at the Gurudwars were Hindus. They had desecerated the places in every way......They installed idols of Hindu dieties......They raped, killed on the premisis.....brought in Hindu rituals.

Led to sikh agitations in 1900s......a lot of sikhs died.....most infamous Nanakana Sb. Saka (massacre).....Sikhs took over Gurudwaras with force and formation of the Gurudawara Act and SGPC.

These events and hostility by Hindu Orgs. like the Arya Samaj created the rift and distinction.

My nani`s several sisters didn`t have sikh names....ALL were hindu names.....though they were Sikhs....probably because they hailed from the eastern most part of United Punjab. My grandparents generation were born in early 1900s. They didn`t visit any Saadhs, pirs, or mandirs - neither did their parents who lived in late 1800s. It was frowned upon.

A few years back, I tried visiting some muslims places that were abandoned in 47. I got yelled at. This has happened more than a few times.

DM #306,
If Dawn is your source of info then I just might tell you have I have not read it in more than two years barring headlines here and there. If you are looking for non-info about Pakistan, you read Dawn. Dawn`s readership is generally Urdu Speaking from UP, CP and articles in Dawn cater to its readership.

Both Ayaz Amir and CowasJi are two columnist whose opinion changes as often as wind changes directions in Karachi. I am not sure about the quality of “Historical” articles in Dawn magazine section but I know one thing they never publish any thing that represent Sindhi, Baloch or Pukhtoon History. They don’t even bother to print article that contradict the Official history views.
Some source of Info you have!
I guess nobody ever told you about who the Haroons are. Ask Omar Qureshi sometime!

Netzen # 304. ``As non-muslims are decreasing as % I guess there is a less chance of knowing others.``
There are more than 1%:)
Only rural Sindh has a significant Hindu population and I doubt that rest of the Pakistan is conversant with any other religion besides Islam. That too is a big question mark!

Re # 310

``Sometime history is cruel, but you will not find a single Sindhi Muslim who would not regret Hindu departure from Sindh. ``

That is good to know but bonds of Islam definitely overrode this feeling. I mean Sindhi Muslims wanted to be part of Muslim Pakistan more than wanting to keep Sindhi Hindus from departing. They did make efforts to become part of Pakistan (didn`t they?) but there were no efforts to keep them from departing, just feeling of regrets. And certainly no efforts to get them back.

He was a Khatri.

311,

That is another MYTH and a LIE . JATS in Punjab were one of the lowest on the social status. Sikhism elevated and liberated their status.

NONE of the original KHALSA was jat. Panj Piyaras, Guru Govind Singh ji, Banda Singh Bahadur were ALL NON-Jats.

Original heroes were ALL NON-Jats. They were Ahluwalias, Ramgarias (Carpenters), Khatris, Rajputs etc.

Jat surperiority is a myth created by Jats and Jat wannabes.

Re: # 314


good info.

``Panj Piyaras, Guru Govind Singh ji, Banda Singh Bahadur were ALL NON-Jats. ``

I know that P.P. were from as far of as Bidar, and Banga Bahadur was a Rajput, what about Guru Govind Singh ji?

Re: # 315
Also, P P were from Hastinapur(UP), Lahore, Bidar, Puri and Dwarka.

Re: # 315
Also, P P were from Hastinapur(UP), Lahore, Bidar, Puri and Dwarka.

Re: # 315
It is Guru Gobind Singh not Guru Govind Singh.

He was born of Sodhi clan a Khatri, it is hard to put where he was from, I would all over India. He was born in Patliputar(Patna), raised in Anandpur and parts of H P.

His rand Father`s Grand Father GuruRamdas was from Lahore.