Amrita Pritam

I read somewhere that Auranzeb`s cap weaving and rope making was a sham a political photo op simmilar to the politicians today.

Yes it is plain area. My aunt lives there. It used to be muslim stronghold. A lot of houses were muslim. I visited some of them - now occupied by sikhs/Hindus from W Punjab. Hoshiarpur city is almost all Hindu.

Hoshiarpur is famous for Ivory (now plastic is used) inlay work furniture. Most artisans are Ramgaria sikhs. There is a `sheesh mahal` in the bazar. Nothing to do or see in Hoshiarpur.

Pmishra:
Quran does not say anything bad about others, it genuinely talks about goodness of all mankind.
However, you are probably confused about Shariat and Quran. I still have`nt understood where the boundaries are.
Taliban and other Fanatic muslims wants to implement Shariat word-by-word everywhere.
Their interpretations are very pathetic. Mughals used shariat to impelement Jaziya tax on non-beleievers. Even the beheadings in Iraq are taken verbosum from Shariat, stone to death, amputations etc. That is what Westerns freak about.

I did read a book about Quran lately, like any other religious book it does speak good things. I tired reading Urdu Versions, but the vocabulary was beyond me.

However, I do not understand about the reveleations to Hazrat Mohammad part. I know that Muslims think it was divine. But my rational mind takes me to other places.
On the other hand, Guru Nanak also talks about God`s word coming to him
``Jaise me Aye Khasam ki Bani``.(Khasam(husband) as God).
???????

There have been attempts by some Muslims in the past to keep shariat away from Islam, as in Turkey and Dagestan etc.
But these peoples are not considered as Muslims by other conservative Muslims.
I think Islam religion is at cross-roads of the History as never seen before, most likely there will be revivalist movements to remove the disparity with other cultures in next 100 yrs or so.

Re: # 269

``Taliban and other Fanatic muslims wants to implement Shariat word-by-word everywhere. ``

even muslims in northern nigeria want that, pakis want that, chechens want that, indian muslims have good part of it in there personal laws.


``However, you are probably confused about Shariat and Quran. I still have`nt understood where the boundaries are. ``

Can someone explain this please?

``There have been attempts by some Muslims in the past to keep shariat away from Islam, as in Turkey and Dagestan etc.``

in turkey the army has kept the country ``secular`` the people have given a very a pro-islamic verdict. If i am not wrong the present gov. came to power on a islamic base. Isn`t Dagestan still a Russain republic?

Re #260

``(to his credit he did not waste public money on extravagent projects, lead a spartan life and preferred to have a open air /simple grave rather than a big monumnet). ``

And used to stitch his own caps.

tahmed:

If I am not wrong, long time back in some other post you had made an observation that hindus/indians are mad at(or don`t like) pakistanis because they are converts. If you look at the history from native perspective you will realise that a lot of blood was shed to preserve the native culture and religion. A lot of agony and pain was suffered by the people be it from punjab or Deccan. a lot did convert but others bravely put resistance. that is one of the reasons for your observation.

pmishra: you are entitled to your views. i have no interest in changing them.

kaura: thanks for the link. I have pictures of the place as well (my late father had written a letter in the late 1990`s, and had received a very warm response including a picture of our ancestral home (the last of the homes still standing from 1947) and an invitation to visit. He passed away before he could do that unfortunately, but my elder brother made the trip a couple of years ago.

delhiwala: from pictures my brother took, it seems to be a flat plain, very fertile. Just as the ``bazoorgwar`` used to mention it.

dm #253 ``who cares whether Muslims who forced conversions were following their religion or not? T``

I do. Since if it was indeed islam that was the root of this evil, then i would have no problem renouncing the faith. Who would dare to stop me? I remain a muslim by choice. And I have no problem with someone remaining a hindu or sikh or agnostic by choice either - these are personal matters.

I am not one those people call themselves muslims and berate this great religion. Just like I am not like one of those people who live in the US and berate this great country.

Tahmeed,

Here is your pind SASOLI

Hinduism does have a concept of Monotheism. ``Bhagwan``

At another website, all hell broke lose and people got thrown out, when I initiated this comment that - Hinduism is closer to nature and natural laws with its caste system, than the so called ``equality`` of monotheistic religions.

I also stated, human nature is closer to the thesis of Hindu ideologies than so callled ``monotheistic`` religions - THAT is why followers of monotheistic religions LIVE lives that contradict their teachings.

#249

Our friend tahmed claims:

``monotheism and equality of man is from islam,``

I am sorry but there is nothing in islam that suggests equality of man. There is a strong statement about equality of muslim men (and a very different suggestion about the relationship between muslims and non-muslims :-).

One of the pleasing aspects of the sikh tradition is that it avoids the ugly supremacist ideology for muslim men from islam. There is very little denigration of the ``other`` as found in christianity and later taken to extreme heights in islam. Certain practices are rejected but there is no equivalent to the murderous language about non-believers as found in the Koran and many other islamic sources. In this aspect it remains deeply true to its indic roots.

Re # 253

``The end result was the same - an entry into a one way street from which there was no exit. You read hundreds of instances in Indian history where Muslims gave Hindus the choice to convert or lose their life, sometimes through torture.``

I know at least one exception to that, Netaji Palkar. He was Shivaji`s COAS who was captured by Mughals, forced to convert to Islam, fought for Mughals in Northwest India, but he became Hindu again when he escaped Mughal army after being posted in the south in a prominent ceremony initiated by Shivaji.

delhiwala#250

You are mistaken about Sambhaji, who was Shivaji`s son and not his guru. BTW Sambhaji was blinded and tortured to death by Aurangzeb in the streets of Delhi.

Re: # 255

I don`t think it was in Delhi, Sambhaji was tortured to death in Maharashtra itself. Sambhaji had given shelter to Aurangzebs son, Akbar (?) who had rebelled against his father. When the Mughal forces captured both of them akbars life was spared but Sambhaji was given an option to convert or die. Before he was killed, his poet friend was tortured in front of his eyes to instill fear and force him to convert. But he was stubborn and died a hindu. there is a book written on his sacrifice.

Re: # 255

``You are mistaken about Sambhaji, who was Shivaji`s son and not his guru. BTW Sambhaji was blinded and tortured to death by Aurangzeb in the streets of Delhi.``

after his refusal to convert to Islam

Re # 249

``monotheism and equality of man is from islam,``

I think that is certainly true, and I do not mean to start an entirely new discussion but
Hinduism does have concept of Monotheism i.e. Adwait (without two/double) and it is
fairly prominent concept.