Nauman Nisar May 15, 2005
#1 Posted by trashman on May 16, 2005 2:04:43 am
I havnt seen any Americans crying like this when Pakistani papers show American Presidents as satan, chimps and all. Actually we`re quite alike, US and us. Hippocrits of the highest order.
#2 Posted by Malyck on May 16, 2005 3:25:03 am
Reply to cartoon mania in Pakistan published on May 10, 2005 in The Washington Times
A DOG’S LIFE (AND TIMES)
``East is east and West is west, and never the twain shall meet.`` The jet airplane and the Internet have rendered a lot of Kipling`s eloquence irrelevant, but the old boy had a point. Cultures, if not necessarily at war, still clash.
Consider the noble dog. In the West we regard him as man`s best friend. For one thing, he sees and hears a lot, and he`ll never tell. Little old ladies have been known to bequeath fortunes to his interests. ``A gay dog`` was once a sly compliment for the man about town and with very different connotations than such a compliment would imply today. Shakespeare characterized mighty armies with canine metaphor (``let slip the dogs of war``). Great universities invoke him as mascot for their beloved athletic teams. Yalies sing a hymn to him: ``Bulldog, Bulldog, bow, wow, wow,`` and the Georgia Bulldogs are annually the scourge of college football. The most loyal Democrats of yesteryear proudly called themselves ``yellow dogs.`` Loyal Democrats of the present day style themselves ``the blue dogs,`` and our soldiers are ``working like dogs`` on far-flung fronts today in the interests of what our French friends celebrate as liberte, egalite, fraternite. Indeed, we regard the dog as one of God`s greatest gifts, one of the noblest expressions of patience, loyalty, kindness and devotion.
A dog, in short, has soul, if not a soul. But this, alas, doesn`t always translate accurately to other cultures. In much of the Islamic world, for example, the dog is not, not to put too fine a point on it, held in such high repute, and is often regarded as not much better than, say, the sole of a man`s shoe. You can offend a devout Muslim, as the editorial page of this newspaper has learned to our chagrin, with a canine comparison that would cheer a conscientious Christian.
Our Bill Garner, whom we regard as the most incisive and talented cartoonist at work on American newspapers, set out last week to express, in a cartoonist`s irreverent way, a little gratitude for Pakistan`s work in the pursuit and capture of Abu Faraj al-Libbi, believed to be the third-in-command of al Qaeda.
In an unexpected ``tribute`` to the long reach of the influence of this newspaper, the Pakistani parliament adopted, unanimously, a resolution decrying Mr. Garner`s cartoon, and the Pakistani embassy has protested ``an insult to the sentiments of the people of both Pakistan and the United States as it strengthens the hands of the extremists.`` This imputes more power to a mere newspaper than any newspaper deserves, but we take the embassy`s point and offer the assurance that no insult was intended. Other Pakistani politicians have demanded an apology from no less than the president of the United States. The suggestion that any American newspaper speaks for the government or a president betrays a profound ignorance of how America works. If an American president could prevent newspaper cartoonists from insulting, reviling, abusing, affronting and ``dissing`` politicians, he would not exercise this power in behalf of anyone but himself. Newspaper cartoonists have been insulting, reviling, abusing, affronting and ``dissing`` presidents for more than a century, and all that presidents can do about it is grin, bear it and ask for the originals, for framing and display on desk or wall.
For his part, Mr. Garner, who admires Pakistan and, we might as well say it, loves old hounds, meant no offense or injury. Indeed, quite the contrary: ``When I showed a dog bringing in a terrorist I did it in the spirit of goodwill and friendship that exists between the two countries. I did not mean anything disparaging.`` Nevertheless, he says he will find other metaphors next time: ``I now understand that it obviously is a very negative symbol in Pakistan. I hope they will have an understanding of what I intended, and will accept differences among religions and cultures.``
And if he knows what`s good for him, he`ll be careful about what he says about cats.
Copyright © 2005 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved.
A DOG’S LIFE (AND TIMES)
``East is east and West is west, and never the twain shall meet.`` The jet airplane and the Internet have rendered a lot of Kipling`s eloquence irrelevant, but the old boy had a point. Cultures, if not necessarily at war, still clash.
Consider the noble dog. In the West we regard him as man`s best friend. For one thing, he sees and hears a lot, and he`ll never tell. Little old ladies have been known to bequeath fortunes to his interests. ``A gay dog`` was once a sly compliment for the man about town and with very different connotations than such a compliment would imply today. Shakespeare characterized mighty armies with canine metaphor (``let slip the dogs of war``). Great universities invoke him as mascot for their beloved athletic teams. Yalies sing a hymn to him: ``Bulldog, Bulldog, bow, wow, wow,`` and the Georgia Bulldogs are annually the scourge of college football. The most loyal Democrats of yesteryear proudly called themselves ``yellow dogs.`` Loyal Democrats of the present day style themselves ``the blue dogs,`` and our soldiers are ``working like dogs`` on far-flung fronts today in the interests of what our French friends celebrate as liberte, egalite, fraternite. Indeed, we regard the dog as one of God`s greatest gifts, one of the noblest expressions of patience, loyalty, kindness and devotion.
A dog, in short, has soul, if not a soul. But this, alas, doesn`t always translate accurately to other cultures. In much of the Islamic world, for example, the dog is not, not to put too fine a point on it, held in such high repute, and is often regarded as not much better than, say, the sole of a man`s shoe. You can offend a devout Muslim, as the editorial page of this newspaper has learned to our chagrin, with a canine comparison that would cheer a conscientious Christian.
Our Bill Garner, whom we regard as the most incisive and talented cartoonist at work on American newspapers, set out last week to express, in a cartoonist`s irreverent way, a little gratitude for Pakistan`s work in the pursuit and capture of Abu Faraj al-Libbi, believed to be the third-in-command of al Qaeda.
In an unexpected ``tribute`` to the long reach of the influence of this newspaper, the Pakistani parliament adopted, unanimously, a resolution decrying Mr. Garner`s cartoon, and the Pakistani embassy has protested ``an insult to the sentiments of the people of both Pakistan and the United States as it strengthens the hands of the extremists.`` This imputes more power to a mere newspaper than any newspaper deserves, but we take the embassy`s point and offer the assurance that no insult was intended. Other Pakistani politicians have demanded an apology from no less than the president of the United States. The suggestion that any American newspaper speaks for the government or a president betrays a profound ignorance of how America works. If an American president could prevent newspaper cartoonists from insulting, reviling, abusing, affronting and ``dissing`` politicians, he would not exercise this power in behalf of anyone but himself. Newspaper cartoonists have been insulting, reviling, abusing, affronting and ``dissing`` presidents for more than a century, and all that presidents can do about it is grin, bear it and ask for the originals, for framing and display on desk or wall.
For his part, Mr. Garner, who admires Pakistan and, we might as well say it, loves old hounds, meant no offense or injury. Indeed, quite the contrary: ``When I showed a dog bringing in a terrorist I did it in the spirit of goodwill and friendship that exists between the two countries. I did not mean anything disparaging.`` Nevertheless, he says he will find other metaphors next time: ``I now understand that it obviously is a very negative symbol in Pakistan. I hope they will have an understanding of what I intended, and will accept differences among religions and cultures.``
And if he knows what`s good for him, he`ll be careful about what he says about cats.
Copyright © 2005 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved.
#9 Posted by nauman9 on May 16, 2005 8:43:50 am
Re: # 3
Ntsyed
[I doubt the Pakistanis have lost the sense of humor, any more than the Americans have.]
I totally agree. Americans loose their sense of humor more often than it is perceived. Even Pop Star, George Michael has to go live on CNN and defend himself for his video “Shoot the dog”. Still many American callers to the program were mad as hell.
“Variable sensitivities” seem to be at play when a commercial in UK was outright banned which showed George W. Bush setting a video on fire after failing to play it.
See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/2518151.stm
Other cultures may show “intolerance” too. Indians, in fact, protested strongly to Maxim Magazine when they published 23 computer generated cartoon images showing Gandhi beaten by a man. The magazine issued an apology later.
Nauman Nisar.
Ntsyed
[I doubt the Pakistanis have lost the sense of humor, any more than the Americans have.]
I totally agree. Americans loose their sense of humor more often than it is perceived. Even Pop Star, George Michael has to go live on CNN and defend himself for his video “Shoot the dog”. Still many American callers to the program were mad as hell.
“Variable sensitivities” seem to be at play when a commercial in UK was outright banned which showed George W. Bush setting a video on fire after failing to play it.
See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/2518151.stm
Other cultures may show “intolerance” too. Indians, in fact, protested strongly to Maxim Magazine when they published 23 computer generated cartoon images showing Gandhi beaten by a man. The magazine issued an apology later.
Nauman Nisar.
#3 Posted by ntsyed on May 16, 2005 3:48:00 am
Nauman, your point is well taken, especially the final sentence.
While the cartoon seems quite innocent from the general American public`s perspective, the political cartoonists are highly intelligent, much more informed, and politically astute to symbolize objects and characters in specific circumstances to get the point across. It is no uncommon to use dual-symbolism in their work, which on the surface says one thing yet gets another more acute message across...kinda like Anwer Maqsood style.
I doubt the Pakistanis have lost the sense of humor, any more than the Americans have. Bill Maher was vehemently denounced by the American public for claiming that right or wrong 9/11 suicide bomber were anything but cowards (as immediately labelled by GWB) who gave up their lives for their cause, whereas the US pilots dropping cluster bombs from high altitudes were, in his talk show ``Politically Correct``.
You`re right about cultural perceptions having more to do with outrage at the public level, and political jabbing at the govt./politician level.
I think the whole rukus is about US treating Pakistan as dog - a four legged, slobering, dumber than human, beast...period. The breed may mean something different to Westerners, but perhaps not to Pakistanis. It doesn`t matter how good the kind is, it is still a beast and cannot be equated a nation. Even in the US and Europe, depiction of a person or nation as an animal is often meant as an insult. Your own example of Blair in the music video is a proof of that. Then western women often use the term ``dogs`` while referring to men.
So, the outrage is not that unjustified. The Pakistani pro-US moderates were awaiting rewards for their loyalty and efficiency as human partners, not demotion to a lesser creature. But then again, this group got exactly what it deserves, and the anti-US group is naturally upset at being insulted despite its political stance. :-)~~
While the cartoon seems quite innocent from the general American public`s perspective, the political cartoonists are highly intelligent, much more informed, and politically astute to symbolize objects and characters in specific circumstances to get the point across. It is no uncommon to use dual-symbolism in their work, which on the surface says one thing yet gets another more acute message across...kinda like Anwer Maqsood style.
I doubt the Pakistanis have lost the sense of humor, any more than the Americans have. Bill Maher was vehemently denounced by the American public for claiming that right or wrong 9/11 suicide bomber were anything but cowards (as immediately labelled by GWB) who gave up their lives for their cause, whereas the US pilots dropping cluster bombs from high altitudes were, in his talk show ``Politically Correct``.
You`re right about cultural perceptions having more to do with outrage at the public level, and political jabbing at the govt./politician level.
I think the whole rukus is about US treating Pakistan as dog - a four legged, slobering, dumber than human, beast...period. The breed may mean something different to Westerners, but perhaps not to Pakistanis. It doesn`t matter how good the kind is, it is still a beast and cannot be equated a nation. Even in the US and Europe, depiction of a person or nation as an animal is often meant as an insult. Your own example of Blair in the music video is a proof of that. Then western women often use the term ``dogs`` while referring to men.
So, the outrage is not that unjustified. The Pakistani pro-US moderates were awaiting rewards for their loyalty and efficiency as human partners, not demotion to a lesser creature. But then again, this group got exactly what it deserves, and the anti-US group is naturally upset at being insulted despite its political stance. :-)~~
#4 Posted by aquaris on May 16, 2005 4:42:03 am
May be ..... They were testing the temperature.....!!
#5 Posted by irfanhamid on May 16, 2005 4:54:16 am
Well said Nauman. I think our government, under duress from the opposition and pressure groups, had to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Obviously, demanding that the Whitehouse apologize for something like this was mal-targeted as the Whitehouse had nothing to do with this cartoon. A proper response would have been a cold and snide remark to the Washington Times accusing them of being politically inept and childish. An insult goes much farther than raising a hue and cry.
On a side note, US conservatives are crying foul over a billboard advertisement of a spanish radio station on a California highway leading to LA which reads Welcome to Los Angeles, after which the CA is crossed out and in place of it is written Mexico. So, we are not the only ones prones to prima donna histrionics.
Musharraf does deserve credit for showing some backbone and resisting American requests to send troops to Iraq. Plus the Pakistani government has never approved of the Iraq war. We are allies, but fortunately we have defined our limits.
On a side note, US conservatives are crying foul over a billboard advertisement of a spanish radio station on a California highway leading to LA which reads Welcome to Los Angeles, after which the CA is crossed out and in place of it is written Mexico. So, we are not the only ones prones to prima donna histrionics.
Musharraf does deserve credit for showing some backbone and resisting American requests to send troops to Iraq. Plus the Pakistani government has never approved of the Iraq war. We are allies, but fortunately we have defined our limits.
#6 Posted by arjun_m on May 16, 2005 5:01:45 am
Why so much uproar over an editorial cartoon?
Most pakis think the decision to abandon the taliban was voluntary....They`re just shocked to see reality of their position...
One can interpret this cartoon as strong anti-Bush.
anti-Bush....from the washington times? That`s even more unlikely than the cartoonist showing pakistan as a dog because ``dogs are considered man`s best friend``.....
Pakistan solidly supports US where the interest of Pakistan and US overlaps, i.e., capturing Osama and its cohorts, withdrawing its support for Taliban and stabilizing Afghanistan.
Umm...okay...Pakistan voluntarily withdrew support for the taliban...and the taliban, which till 9/10 was providing strategic depth, suddenly became something that was against pakistan`s interests....and coincidentally, after a phone call from the state department with allusions to the stone age....mmkay...
Pakistan needs to have a consensus as to how far the nation could go.
How radical....citizens of a country having a say in how their country is run!!
#7 Posted by Saj1981 on May 16, 2005 6:13:29 am
All this is...is evidence of how far Pakistan has to go towards becoming a rationale mature and democratic society. The hypocrisy factor has someone has earlier mentioned too is stunning...for god sakes it seems that daily US and other Western flags are burned..effigies of leaders too for that matter...are these not even more ``symbolic`` than some stupic WT cartoon... a paper that 80% of average Pakistanis wouldnt have under normal circumstances known to exist. The extreme hyperbole from the Pakistani leadership especially seems to be more than adequete evidence of how close the cartoon hits home...but they shouldnt fret there are about another 10 or so states that are ``frontline`` states in the ``war on terrorism`` ...and fundamentally if they are being forced to do a lot of Dubya`s dirty work....well that indeed is the price for 20 years of plying a religious fundamentalism based geo-political strategy in the region. What goes around..always comes around...
#8 Posted by Saj1981 on May 16, 2005 6:13:40 am
All this is...is evidence of how far Pakistan has to go towards becoming a rationale mature and democratic society. The hypocrisy factor has someone has earlier mentioned too is stunning...for god sakes it seems that daily US and other Western flags are burned..effigies of leaders too for that matter...are these not even more ``symbolic`` than some stupic WT cartoon... a paper that 80% of average Pakistanis wouldnt have under normal circumstances known to exist. The extreme hyperbole from the Pakistani leadership especially seems to be more than adequete evidence of how close the cartoon hits home...but they shouldnt fret there are about another 10 or so states that are ``frontline`` states in the ``war on terrorism`` ...and fundamentally if they are being forced to do a lot of Dubya`s dirty work....well that indeed is the price for 20 years of plying a religious fundamentalism based geo-political strategy in the region. What goes around..always comes around...
#26 Posted by ntsyed on May 17, 2005 4:18:51 am
Re: # 10
ferozk,
Please note my arguments as well to see that there are exceptions to the rule you describe. However, thank you for reinforcing my point with ``The FOX NEWS is often refered to the ``junkyard dog of the Republican Party`` because it zealously guards the interests of the Republican Party.``
While I too think that the depiction of Pakistan (as an active partner in war on terrorism) is right on the dot, the point expressed/implied (whichever way one wishes to look at it) in the cartoon may be that FOX or Pakistan do not have a mind and/or an agenda of their own viz always following the orders of his master not thinking where it may lead.
What American public and administration think of Pakistan; what Pakistani inept politicians think of their relationship with the US or about their position the bigger scheme of things; how the general Pak populace percieves this relationship; etc, etc, at the end of the day, it`s all politics....dirty game to exploit people. People simply do not have anything else they can do but to protest, agitate, vent...whatever else you want to call it.
I forget who, but someone here made a very pertinent point that may be they`re testing the temperature.
Same thing with desecration of Quran story in the Newsweek. Such incidents have reported by many high-profile newspaper many times in the recent past as you can see here. May be wanted to see how the entire Muslim nation would react globally, or if there would be call for jihad :-)~~
As for the uproar, in every situation different people respond differently becuase they receive the message differently, and seldom one is able to prove the other. I think most of the offended are upset at their own leadership, more so than the Americans, for their support for the latter.
ferozk,
Please note my arguments as well to see that there are exceptions to the rule you describe. However, thank you for reinforcing my point with ``The FOX NEWS is often refered to the ``junkyard dog of the Republican Party`` because it zealously guards the interests of the Republican Party.``
While I too think that the depiction of Pakistan (as an active partner in war on terrorism) is right on the dot, the point expressed/implied (whichever way one wishes to look at it) in the cartoon may be that FOX or Pakistan do not have a mind and/or an agenda of their own viz always following the orders of his master not thinking where it may lead.
What American public and administration think of Pakistan; what Pakistani inept politicians think of their relationship with the US or about their position the bigger scheme of things; how the general Pak populace percieves this relationship; etc, etc, at the end of the day, it`s all politics....dirty game to exploit people. People simply do not have anything else they can do but to protest, agitate, vent...whatever else you want to call it.
I forget who, but someone here made a very pertinent point that may be they`re testing the temperature.
Same thing with desecration of Quran story in the Newsweek. Such incidents have reported by many high-profile newspaper many times in the recent past as you can see here. May be wanted to see how the entire Muslim nation would react globally, or if there would be call for jihad :-)~~
As for the uproar, in every situation different people respond differently becuase they receive the message differently, and seldom one is able to prove the other. I think most of the offended are upset at their own leadership, more so than the Americans, for their support for the latter.
#10 Posted by ferozk on May 16, 2005 8:58:20 am
re: ntsyed # 3
``Even in the US and Europe, depiction of a person or nation as an animal is often meant as an insult``.
I would disagree. During the Second World War, the bulldog was the symbol of British defiance against Germany. The FOX NEWS is often refered to the ``junkyard dog of the Republican Party`` because it zealously guards the interests of the Republican Party.
The up roar of the Washington Times cartoon in Pakistan is nothing more than a rude awakening to the reality of our relationship with United States. There is no denying the fact that Pakistan is the hound dog of the United States and rudeness of the awareness comes from the fact that for too long we were in a self-denial about the true nature of our relationship with Washington.
Ciao
``Even in the US and Europe, depiction of a person or nation as an animal is often meant as an insult``.
I would disagree. During the Second World War, the bulldog was the symbol of British defiance against Germany. The FOX NEWS is often refered to the ``junkyard dog of the Republican Party`` because it zealously guards the interests of the Republican Party.
The up roar of the Washington Times cartoon in Pakistan is nothing more than a rude awakening to the reality of our relationship with United States. There is no denying the fact that Pakistan is the hound dog of the United States and rudeness of the awareness comes from the fact that for too long we were in a self-denial about the true nature of our relationship with Washington.
Ciao
#11 Posted by kaurasach on May 16, 2005 9:03:52 am
In South Asia, it is OK to behave like a dog or worse, and in most circles even an admired quality. And, someone points it out, and all hell breaks loose. Moral of Story, don`t call them dogs even though they behave like one or worse.
#12 Posted by tahmed32 on May 16, 2005 10:15:21 am
Good points made in this article. In fact, at a press conference a few months back in Washington with both Blair and Bush in attendance, Blair was asked what he had to say about the common talk about his being Bush`s poodle. Blair laughed it off. And that was the end of that. No calls in the British House of Commons for an apology from the reporter who asked this question to Blair`s face. No fuss in the public.
What explains the differing reactions between UK and Pakistan? I think it reflects different levels of confidence in the general public.
btw, dogs may be derided in pakistani culture, but it has nothing to do with islam and is in fact a reflection of the primitive nature of pakistani society: as gandhi pointed out - the level of civilization of a society can be gauged by how it treats dogs. In fact, in the Quran there is a story about some holy men and their dog who retreat into a cave and go to sleep (with the dog next to them). Another example of the vast gap between the pagan and primitive beliefs prevalent in pakistan led by the pagan priests aka the ulema; and the shining example of tolerance and civilized behavior reflected in the Quran that is venerated and ignored at the same time.
What explains the differing reactions between UK and Pakistan? I think it reflects different levels of confidence in the general public.
btw, dogs may be derided in pakistani culture, but it has nothing to do with islam and is in fact a reflection of the primitive nature of pakistani society: as gandhi pointed out - the level of civilization of a society can be gauged by how it treats dogs. In fact, in the Quran there is a story about some holy men and their dog who retreat into a cave and go to sleep (with the dog next to them). Another example of the vast gap between the pagan and primitive beliefs prevalent in pakistan led by the pagan priests aka the ulema; and the shining example of tolerance and civilized behavior reflected in the Quran that is venerated and ignored at the same time.
#13 Posted by Urstruly on May 16, 2005 1:12:15 pm
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#19 Posted by hamzaad on May 16, 2005 9:35:18 pm
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#14 Posted by Godot on May 16, 2005 1:13:37 pm
Pakistan’s reaction to the Washington Times’ cartoon is nothing but a reflection of Pakistan’s deep-seated insecurities. Pakistan is not a mature country, the maturity that comes with a country’s economic development followed by intellectual development of its large middle-class – the middle-class that forms the backbone of a stable country.
Pakistan is not strong and secure enough to laugh at itself. It is an economically very weak and emotionally very vulnerable country. Given where Pakistan stands today vis-à-vis the fast moving world around it in general and the Unites States in particular, that reaction is not surprising at all.
Very nice and a thoughtful article, Nauman...except that people like you are not part of the Pakistani group that is deeply hurting because of the weakness and vulnerability of its country. Your thoughts represent the intellectually mature and emotionally secure middle-class of a developed country, not of people of Pakistan.
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