East and West

Re: # 11
Only western civilization is allowed to be imperfect, a work in progress. The other civilizations of the world are worthless if they are not perfect right now. They are not allowed to improve, to progress. All they can hope is to be replaced by an imperfect western civilization. Thank god for white man`s burden and his civilization, eh?

#15 by hamidm2

Dear sir,

The points that you feebly raised are easily addressed as follows:

[....... that`s exactly what i tried to tell my sister when her in-laws camp out at her place for months on end during the summer ...... her answer:`` why don`t they just stay in multan where it is much warmer - why do i have to toil all day in the kitchen cooking]

Any discerning reader can immediately take notice of the “why do EYE have to” part – it’s eminently clear that the lady in question toils in kitchen all ALONE and the help provided by Mr. Hamidm2 and other male members of the entourage is strictly moral! Her response under the circumstances is fully understandable – after all, she has been carrying the burden of these male free-labor-loaders all alone and must have been tired out and the advent of the extra relations was probably the proverbial straw that broke THAT camel’s back!! However, the stressed-out response of one lady should not be an excuse to condemn the eastern society as a whole – the buck needs to stop with YOU, the real culprit – please do not attempt to weasel out!

[........ and i also tried to explain the ``warmth`` thing to other members of my family when their wives complained about the heat radiating from their mothers-in-law]

There is a lot of superficial conflict among powerful ladies in Eastern families – usually over the control of the male member of the society – according to Dr. Laura Schlessinger, such conflicts are easily traced to a vacillating male member who finds himself in conflict – a classical conflict between the obedient son at odds with the Joroo ka ghulam…

[........some of them even ran off never to come back and were replaced by more ``accomodating`` women with better manners and dowries ]

Again, the problem rests at the door of the male member – the male member, who must be accommodated, is usually the root cause of many a problem – better manners and dowries can be considered only side effects!

[............. i have seen ``close`` families fighting over who is going to take care of the schizophrenic grandma who insists that her sons are trying to poison .......... and when she finally passes away they continue to fight over the poor woman`s trinkets ..........]

Greed is a universal vice – not exclusive to the east! Kindly explain what would have been the chemistry between Jackie Kennedy and Aristotle Onasis – inspite of a significant age difference.

[......... the companionship of fellow family members is fine as long as they go home after dinner and don`t ask you for money .............]

People only ask for help from those who have a track record of providing such help – voluntarily or otherwise! For example, if I were related to you, I would have no trouble helping you see the wisdom of sending a million or two my way!!

I hope that you can come up with better arguments than THOSE to establish the superiority of the occidental model!

Sincerely,
Beej.

Re: # 18

beej mian,

.......... there is no ``occidental`` model - they just do what we want to do because they are able to do it ........... but it took centuries of economic and social progress for the west to get here - we are still a long long way off .......... it is hard for a man sleeping in one room with seventeen family members and a goat to think about personal liberty - after all misery does love company .............

.......... and really, i don`t have to ``prove`` the superiority of western culture - the results speak for themselves ..... don`t they ?............pakistan, and i am sure india too, is a a nice place to visit, but you can only eat so much biryani and put up with so much pretentious shows of affection ..........

SalimDost,
Whoever said about Wari Batta is a homo.
In rural Punjab such as Batinda area, this is how Gays talk with each other for having Sex.

Mr. Nasim, how long have you lived in the west??????? I suspect that you have not assimilated in this society. Human beings are the SAME east or west. The reason why you find differences is because you are chosing to discriminate. It takes a person who is open minded to extend a hand of friendship to a Jew or a christian, or oriental or as you say to a westerner in the same manner as you would to a desi. Your article is suggesting that you have been unable to do that. Please do not assume that others share your experience. I have made closer long lasting friendships with westerners than I have with easterners. And I came from Pakistan when I was seventeen. I feel that you are interested in maintaining the differences instead of building bridges. I noticed that some immigrants from the east have a rough time adjusting to the western climate. I also noticed that these are the same people who prepetuate stereotypes of the west. You will find warm hearted people even if you live in Alaska. The response you will get depends upon what kind of attitude you put out. If you feel that westerners are not very friendly, then that bias will become a self-fulfilling prophacy.

Re #19 by hamidm2

Mian, you still don’t get it!

People doing what they wish to do is universal – there is no East-West divide at all – but there is a difference in the way people think on the two sides of the hemisphere – which creates these pathetic conditions and situations that you keep complaining about – complaining louder and more frequently than a hen who has just delivered her latest prized possession!

Taking responsibility “personally” for one’s role (for example men helping or not helping out ladies in the kitchen (and other such problematic issues which some men assiduously avoid)) does not change on the basis of geography – but it is sensitive to income levels, education, etc. That’s why desis continue to have some of the same problems in Western lands as they had back “home”.

Mian, you just don’t see it for what it is. If you think that those close-to-one’s-hearts in Multan are in any worse shape than those not-so-genetically-related hillbillies of West Virginia, an in-person visit to those mountain mamas can immediately remedy the misimpression!

Re: # 20

``Whoever said about Wari Batta is a homo. ``

thats really funny...

Re: # 21

Dear Azzer:

I have lived in the USA for past thirty years and always had great time with Jews, Christians, Hindus and Sikhs. Assimilation in any culture depends on individual circumstances. Some assimilate more than others. You are right in saying that I have not completely merged in this society. For any first generation immigrant, the total assimilation is simply not possible.

I have adopted a large number of attributes of this society because it is not possible to survive without it.

While making an observation, I can not make a judgement about minority in the USA. Similarly while talking about the East, we can not base our judgement on minority. I know people in the East who are much more western in outlook, culture and habits while living in India and Pakistan.

Similarly, I have many friends who were born in the USA but think like Eastern people. But such people as exceptions.

I am very clear in my mind that people have different experiences. This is what make this life very interesting. People look at exactly the same situation and reach their own opinions. The current debate about intelligent design as compared to theory of evolution is a case in point.

I have visited Sweden and Morroco within a period of few months. I have found Swedes very quiet while in Casablanca people just want to talk and discuss anything and everything with you.

I have found the same thing in India and Pakistan. Gossip is our national past-time.

This is my personal observation and I am sure you will observe the situation from a different angle.

Good luck and best wishes,

Nasim Hassan (nhassa@yahoo.com)