The Alternative Muslim Identity

a good list you got there, SS. (sorry if you take offense for the SS :-) )

Amorres Perroes had a lot going on.

Before Night Falls was a straight ripoff (imagery-wise) from Tarkovsky`s Andrei Rubilev.

cheers.

Re: # 79

RawDust Sahib:
You asked, ``My question to you: Before asking Why this Islam or that islam, a rather more pertinent question to be asked is Why should a person buy into a belief system that talks about Hell and eternal condemnation for the deviant and infidels?``

I have a theory that addresses the question you have posed. Humans because of their very fragile existence are morbidly afraid of the unknown. Death presents the most feared unknown. A belief system provides answers, a system of moralities and most of all; a comfort zone.

In my opinion, there is no physical place as Heaven or Hell. This earth is either like heaven or hell. On a more esoteric note, I must add, that to me Hell means a separation from the divine. I am firm believer in the Chandogaya Upanishada teaching that all creation stems from the infinite divine called Brahman in Sanskrit. This universal divine power is the primogenitor of the human soul in my opinion. After death, this tiny spark of the divine seeks to be united with the Ultimate divine power, and I consider nearness to this divine energy a source of bliss, or a state of heaven. On the other hand, the further away one`s soul is from the divine light, the more anguished and tortured one`s soul is, whether in this human life or the next life without matter; it is a state of hell.
Hell to me is simply an absence of the divine in one`s life.
One does not need to be a Muslim, a christian or any religion to have this divine light illuminating their lives. The sages of the Vedantic period had no religion, yet lived bathed in divine light of wisdom. Wisdom brings bliss and contentment. Ignorance brings anguish, fear and pride.

I didnt mean to go on an on. I didnt know how else to answer your question.

ShoreSahib:
many thanks for your reply. one of these days, i am gonna readup on vedas and upanishads.

Re: # 81
I am not taking offense at SS.

I grant thee permission to call me that. :))

I loved Amorres Perros. Great movie.

Have you seen, ``Requiem for a Dream``.

I would also urge you to see, `` Babette`s Feast``. Cest Magnifique, Monsieur.

shoresahib:

i have seen four of the movies you`ve mentioned. like water for chocolate, fire, raise the red lantern, and bhaji on the beach. fire was now when i think about it, much better than earth, all of these were good movies, although i know that gurinder chadha has been criticized for the dimensionality of her characters. but still, i think ``bhaji`` is a good movie in terms of the generational relationships, and the varying aspirations, conflicts of the women, and if memory serves me correctly, wasn`t one of the women characters actually from the mothership i. e. india herself and was seen as more ``outrageous`` by both the older and the younger women? that, if i`m not mistaken, was interesting. and if there are those who feel that the desi man was being stereotyped yet again. . . there are plenty of jerks around like the husband who beat his wife.

hopefully this will all flow and connect back to zehra in some way. . :)

arjun:

saving private ryan, i hear, was a good movie. would you believe, i haven`t seen it yet? okay, for a moment i thought you were going to give me a golan-globus movie, and if you had i would have freaked and concluded that you truly are a lost soul. (i guess unlike some others, i haven`t reached that conclusion yet. foolish me.)

I congratulate Ana, Raw_dust and ShoreSahib for hijacking this thread for a conversation that is best suited for UP.
I respect your taste in movies but none of them had any entertainment value. Why waste hours and money on movies that make you run out of theatres!
I cannot bear to watch them on DVD either.

HP:
i saw the list and couldnot resist commenting. apologies to the peeps - if that amounted to hijacking.
for the question of movies and entertainment - start a thread on UP if you really wanna, ill stop by sometime.

I read this piece as a desperate--often cheeky--attempt at an explanation of a dithering individual; and I take the term ``identity`` (thanks Alephnull) to be the crux of the cake, so to speak. In the end what is gained? Nothing. Beyond that nugatory meandering of an “identity-less” Muslim, then what? I`m lost; and by implication, so is Zehra. And cheap shots against America don’t highlight the ‘progressiveness’ of this new Muslim intelligentsia.

--Ibn

I read this piece as a desperate--often cheeky--attempt at an explanation of a dithering individual; and I take the term ``identity`` (thanks Alephnull) to be the crux of the cake, so to speak. In the end what is gained? Nothing. Beyond that nugatory meandering of an “identity-less” Muslim, then what? I`m lost; and by implication, so is Zehra. And cheap shots against America don’t highlight the ‘progressiveness’ of this new Muslim intelligentsia.

--Ibn

Re: # 76
perverted comprehensions

LoL, Shore, you seriously are screwed in the head... Refering to the #70 post you made... you said:

I am a Muslim. I am gay. I am not going to Hell and I will not let anyone tell me that I am. Last time I checked they werent sitting on the Throne of Allah.

Damn, whos the pervert now... :S For one, Allah needs no throne, theek... if you cry democracy and freespeech all the time, be ready to listen to some shit like going to hell. Lets not be hypocritical at the same time, ok?

I, myself am all cool with who you vote for, thats your right, coz you must have made a wise decision doing so. Or not doing the otherway round. But please refrain from accusing others of hijacking Islam, when you yourself dont have a good grasp of it. And in the same ignorance attempt hijacking it for your own good.

The stuff about ONE ISLAM, in your post, really doesnt stick out, what is it about ?!

The most admirable of all this could be the activism amongst minorities, like Muslim in the US, all working to get their rights.

Goodnight.

#85 by ana on June 20, 2005 2:19pm PT



saving private ryan, i hear, was a good movie. would you believe, i haven`t seen it yet?


Try Mr and Mrs Smith....it`s True lies with two pairs of balls....


okay, for a moment i thought you were going to give me a golan-globus movie,


Hey...what`s wrong with Superman II?



that you truly are a lost soul.


heck, my nani thinks i`m a lost soul, destined for that barbecue in hell....are you a practicing catholic?

HP:

arre, i had no intentions of ``hijacking`` the board but i very well couldn`t ignore the question now could i? and plus talking about the content of some of these movies isn`t completely divorced from the issues zehra`s footnoted.

vaisay, not to ``hijack`` any further, but do you read, write and speak sindhi? if so, i`ve come across some sindhi poems and i have just a few questions. okay, maybe one.

arjuna:

naah. greek orthodox. and not much of a truly practicing one these days.
and superman ii is good! chillax!

re: ShoreSahib # 82

One doesn`t know what to say when one sees Vedanta being combined with Islam-1 to create Islam-2.

Hopefully, one day someone will explain what Islam-2 has to do with Islam-1.

zeh`r with apologies for this intrusion:

Please circulate widely.

PRESS CONFERENCE
June 22, 2003

10:30 a.m – 12:30 p.m.

65th Street, Fifth Ave., New York



A press conference will be held on Wednesday June 22, 2005 at 10:30 a.m at 65th Street and Fifth Ave. in Manhattan. The press conference is being sponsored by ANAA (Asian American Network Against Abuse of Women), Turning Point for Women and Families NY and Amnesty International, USA.

The press conference is being held to urge the Pakistani government to allow Mukhtaran Bibi to travel and speak freely within and outside Pakistan. Representatives of ANAA, Turning Point, Amnesty International, Human Rights First will address the conference along with other well known rights advocates.

As has been widely reported in the international media, Mukhtaran Bibi endured the harrowing tragedy of being sentenced to rape by a tribal jirga, maligned by her community and yet emerged courageous and committed to improving the society around her. Tragically, she is now refused the right to speak the truth about her ordeal while all the men who raped Mukhtaran Bibi are now free.

Mukhtaran Bibi was put under house arrest on June 9 only to be spirited away for a day and reproduced at a Press Conference organized by government officials. In the Press Conference she stated that she was foregoing her invitation to the United States to attend the ANAA Symposium on Violence against Women in South Asia. In the mean time, while Pakistani government officials maintain she is ``free to leave``, police continue to surround her house and monitor all telephone conversations. In addition, Mukhtaran Bibi`s passport has been taken and is no longer in her possession. Victimized first at the hands of a tribal jirga and gang raped by twelve men, Mukhtaran Bibi has now been made to believe that telling her story and bringing attention to the plight of women like herself would make her ``an enemy of Pakistan.``

ANAA is deeply disappointed at the Pakistan Government`s efforts to thwart a public advocacy campaign that aims to draw attention to thousands of women in Pakistan who are regularly brutalized that result from a collusion between discriminatory laws, a patriarchal society and an establishment that fails to implement legislative and social reforms that would end the brutalization of women. We call on the Government of Pakistan to immediately ensure that those charged with the brutal crime will not endanger Mukhtaran Bibi or her family and will be brought to justice.

The legal, physical and psychological intimidation Mukhtaran Bibi has faced in recent days as a result of her desire to come to the United States is an example of the extreme lack of value placed on women lives and well being in Pakistan. It also illustrates the repressive silence imposed on all victims of sexual violence

Together with Amnesty International, Turning Point, community and religious leaders and a range of women`s advocacy and human rights organizations, we urge every one to join us in our efforts to ensure the safety of Mukhtaran Bibi and exert pressure on the Government of Pakistan to desist from their pressure tactics on her and her family, including granting Mukhtaran Bibi the freedom to speak and travel.

Contacts:
Amna Buttar
ANAA
Tel: 608-658-7866
abbuttar@aol.com

Robina Niaz,
Turning Point
Tel: 917-575-8069
Email: gardenia02@earthlink.net

Sheila Dauer,
Amnesty International
Tel: 212/807-8400
Email: sdauer@aiusa.org

Re: # 93
I am not the first one to do it.
Baba Farid did it. Baba Bulhey Shah as well. Nizam Ud din awliya, yes I think so. Salim ud din Chishti ofcourse. Baba Bhit Shah, yes indeed.

Guru Nanak as well.
It has been done before. I am simply the parrot reciting philosophy. Not my original thoughts about combining Vedanta with Islam.

It can be done. It has be done.

Seek Knowledge even if you have to go to China. Well, India is in the way.

:))

Re: # 86
Thou shalt not cast your pearls before Swine.

The Holy Bible