Communal Stereotyping in Bollywood Movies
Rahul Malviya May 27, 2005
#63 Posted by dost_mittar on May 31, 2005 5:44:25 am
Romair#56:
I recently saw a Pakistani film, Khamosh Pani. It was better than any bollywood film I have seen this year.
``Even, Dost-mittar, who is convinced that every Muslim in the world is commanded by Islam to kill him, since he is a Hindu, seems to feel relatively safe in Pakistan........``
This is a perfect example of distorting one`s statement. We were discussing a rather abstract question on the Farzana Versey board, namely - which is easier to respect :a person or a person`s religious beliefs? And I had stated:
``For anyone who has been ``jhukk-marrowing`` on chowk for someitme, there is nothing new or suprising in your post. You and I are both aware that there are verses in the Qur`an where Allah instructs the believers to kill those who join Allah with other gods (i.e, practice shirk) for whom the worst torments are awaiting in hell anyway. Now, please tell me how anyone who believes this to be an instruction from Allah can respect a religion whose adherents do precisely that, without some spin-doctoring that they are really not idolators? Now, switch to the other side - how can any adherent of those religions respect a religon whose God says such awful things about their beliefs, regardless of what their religion says regarding all paths to God being true paths? On the other hand, it is easier to respect people because most adherents are innocent ineheritors of those faiths or beliefs.``
..And I elaborated:
``For the record: I should have added that the instructions about killing a pagan is frequently interpreted as contextual. Even the statement itself says that anyone willing to accept the supremacy of Islam and paying jaziya should be spared his life. As I have frequently stated in the past, the life of a Hindu or any other Muslim under the Muslim rule was not always bad as long as they accepted a second class status.``
I recently saw a Pakistani film, Khamosh Pani. It was better than any bollywood film I have seen this year.
``Even, Dost-mittar, who is convinced that every Muslim in the world is commanded by Islam to kill him, since he is a Hindu, seems to feel relatively safe in Pakistan........``
This is a perfect example of distorting one`s statement. We were discussing a rather abstract question on the Farzana Versey board, namely - which is easier to respect :a person or a person`s religious beliefs? And I had stated:
``For anyone who has been ``jhukk-marrowing`` on chowk for someitme, there is nothing new or suprising in your post. You and I are both aware that there are verses in the Qur`an where Allah instructs the believers to kill those who join Allah with other gods (i.e, practice shirk) for whom the worst torments are awaiting in hell anyway. Now, please tell me how anyone who believes this to be an instruction from Allah can respect a religion whose adherents do precisely that, without some spin-doctoring that they are really not idolators? Now, switch to the other side - how can any adherent of those religions respect a religon whose God says such awful things about their beliefs, regardless of what their religion says regarding all paths to God being true paths? On the other hand, it is easier to respect people because most adherents are innocent ineheritors of those faiths or beliefs.``
..And I elaborated:
``For the record: I should have added that the instructions about killing a pagan is frequently interpreted as contextual. Even the statement itself says that anyone willing to accept the supremacy of Islam and paying jaziya should be spared his life. As I have frequently stated in the past, the life of a Hindu or any other Muslim under the Muslim rule was not always bad as long as they accepted a second class status.``
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#62 Posted by Ally on May 31, 2005 5:08:48 am
#34 Khamkhwa
``...this kind of stupid generalization is heard from harvard graduates only... i recently met a pundit family from lucknow and their urdu put me to shame...it was classical urdu which we from punjab will never be able to master... the sheen, qaaf was perfect and that included their kids too who were under 25...``
Why should Punjabi ppl `Master` Urdu, the fact that we can get our point across sufficiently in Urdu is good enough, how many Urdu speakers have mastered Punjabi, come to think of it how many Urdu speakers can get their point across in Punjabi at all?
Punjabi is not better than Urdu, and Urdu is not better than Punjabi. Punjabi ppl should not be made to feel lesser because they do not speak flawless Urdu. Sindhi, Balochi, Kashmiri, Pathan, and Punjabi ppl all have accents when they speak Urdu this is because it is not their mother tongue and if an Urdu speaker was to learn any of their languages s/he too would have an accent. The fact that almost everyone in Pakistan understands Urdu is a miracle in itself.
People think that Punjabi is crude, unsophisticated and lacks much vocabulary, but they often forget that the great saints they all revere such as Bulleh Shah and Baba Nanak Dev, all wrote unmatched poetry in this very language, many hundreds of years ago.
Urdu can be extremely crude too, with the `tere ko mere ko bola re` street style, and Punjabi can and does sound very polite when spoken with respect and softness to your parents or elders, or anyone else for that matter.
The point is any language can be made to sound crude or polite depending on the speaker and the situation.
Simran Ji,
You made some very good points, and i agree with your post, however, where you mention your Pakistani Punjabi friends only speaking Urdu, i must disagree, maybe you only know a few or very elite Pakistani Punjabi ppl. All of the Pakistani Punjabi people i know speak Punjabi in the house and in everyday life, yes we do all learn Urdu but thats because we have to, and also when we write Punjabi we use the same script as Urdu, with some slight modifications.
``...this kind of stupid generalization is heard from harvard graduates only... i recently met a pundit family from lucknow and their urdu put me to shame...it was classical urdu which we from punjab will never be able to master... the sheen, qaaf was perfect and that included their kids too who were under 25...``
Why should Punjabi ppl `Master` Urdu, the fact that we can get our point across sufficiently in Urdu is good enough, how many Urdu speakers have mastered Punjabi, come to think of it how many Urdu speakers can get their point across in Punjabi at all?
Punjabi is not better than Urdu, and Urdu is not better than Punjabi. Punjabi ppl should not be made to feel lesser because they do not speak flawless Urdu. Sindhi, Balochi, Kashmiri, Pathan, and Punjabi ppl all have accents when they speak Urdu this is because it is not their mother tongue and if an Urdu speaker was to learn any of their languages s/he too would have an accent. The fact that almost everyone in Pakistan understands Urdu is a miracle in itself.
People think that Punjabi is crude, unsophisticated and lacks much vocabulary, but they often forget that the great saints they all revere such as Bulleh Shah and Baba Nanak Dev, all wrote unmatched poetry in this very language, many hundreds of years ago.
Urdu can be extremely crude too, with the `tere ko mere ko bola re` street style, and Punjabi can and does sound very polite when spoken with respect and softness to your parents or elders, or anyone else for that matter.
The point is any language can be made to sound crude or polite depending on the speaker and the situation.
Simran Ji,
You made some very good points, and i agree with your post, however, where you mention your Pakistani Punjabi friends only speaking Urdu, i must disagree, maybe you only know a few or very elite Pakistani Punjabi ppl. All of the Pakistani Punjabi people i know speak Punjabi in the house and in everyday life, yes we do all learn Urdu but thats because we have to, and also when we write Punjabi we use the same script as Urdu, with some slight modifications.
#61 Posted by Humsab on May 31, 2005 4:52:56 am
Simran ji
# 57
You wrote:-
The punch line of the movie, ``No if, no but, sirf Jatt`` is in principle against the Sikh religion.
Will you please enlighten me how it is against Sikh religion and where is this connection?
Regards and thanks in anticipation
# 57
You wrote:-
The punch line of the movie, ``No if, no but, sirf Jatt`` is in principle against the Sikh religion.
Will you please enlighten me how it is against Sikh religion and where is this connection?
Regards and thanks in anticipation
#60 Posted by hindvi on May 31, 2005 4:36:30 am
dear Simran
i dont think you have read Ghalib. or if you have you havent understood his idiom or expresion. i dont blame you since in India he isnt taught at school, but ghalib precedes all existentialists including their father Nietzsche. the depth of his poetry can only be described as singular. muslims cannot own him because most of his poetry is agnostic in character and non muslims cannot follow him because most dont understand his language. few can follow him even in the city he lived most of his life in.
i dont think you have read Ghalib. or if you have you havent understood his idiom or expresion. i dont blame you since in India he isnt taught at school, but ghalib precedes all existentialists including their father Nietzsche. the depth of his poetry can only be described as singular. muslims cannot own him because most of his poetry is agnostic in character and non muslims cannot follow him because most dont understand his language. few can follow him even in the city he lived most of his life in.
#59 Posted by drlokraj on May 31, 2005 2:24:25 am
Re: # 47
You have put linguistic issue put in right perspective.
Masses are never bothered about these issues as majority are still struggling to meet their basic needs and the ruling classes keep doing their job of creating the divide silently.Before the Hindi-Urdu dichotomy,the spoken language was called Hindostani or Hindvi and did not have any religeous connotations.
It was primarily same language with regional dialects from Sindh to the Brahamputra.
As language is the biggest uniting force,there have been conscious efforts to use the same for dividing people by breaking,distorting or even camouflaging it and they have been successful in that.That is why different scripts were adopted for Punjabi on both sides of the border-majority of the Punjabis on east side dont know what is being written in Punjabi on the other side and vice versa because they cant read each other`s script.On west side,there are forces which ant to make Saraiki a separate language and may be even Potohari and on east side,already Dogri(which is a dilect of Punjabi)has been accorded the status of an independent language and it is written in devnagri and not gurmukhi.
Somebody said,we cant follow lot of words spoken in Urdu news on Pakistani channels,similarly we can`t follow many words in Hindi news on Door Darshan.This is deliberate on both sides.Considering what politicians,beaurocrats and their sponsored liguistic experts and the sarkari adeeb have done in terms of creating divisions,what bollywood has done is nothing.Bollywood has just tried to encash those stereotypes and their impact is very superficial and short lasting.
You have put linguistic issue put in right perspective.
Masses are never bothered about these issues as majority are still struggling to meet their basic needs and the ruling classes keep doing their job of creating the divide silently.Before the Hindi-Urdu dichotomy,the spoken language was called Hindostani or Hindvi and did not have any religeous connotations.
It was primarily same language with regional dialects from Sindh to the Brahamputra.
As language is the biggest uniting force,there have been conscious efforts to use the same for dividing people by breaking,distorting or even camouflaging it and they have been successful in that.That is why different scripts were adopted for Punjabi on both sides of the border-majority of the Punjabis on east side dont know what is being written in Punjabi on the other side and vice versa because they cant read each other`s script.On west side,there are forces which ant to make Saraiki a separate language and may be even Potohari and on east side,already Dogri(which is a dilect of Punjabi)has been accorded the status of an independent language and it is written in devnagri and not gurmukhi.
Somebody said,we cant follow lot of words spoken in Urdu news on Pakistani channels,similarly we can`t follow many words in Hindi news on Door Darshan.This is deliberate on both sides.Considering what politicians,beaurocrats and their sponsored liguistic experts and the sarkari adeeb have done in terms of creating divisions,what bollywood has done is nothing.Bollywood has just tried to encash those stereotypes and their impact is very superficial and short lasting.
#58 Posted by KaalChakra on May 30, 2005 10:29:52 pm
re: simran # 57
Excellent post.
{A minor point. When you said that ``No if, no but, sirf Jatt`` is in principle against the Sikh religion,`` did you have in mind the wrong impression the punch line may give that the Sikh religion is only for `Jatts?`}
Excellent post.
{A minor point. When you said that ``No if, no but, sirf Jatt`` is in principle against the Sikh religion,`` did you have in mind the wrong impression the punch line may give that the Sikh religion is only for `Jatts?`}
#57 Posted by Simran on May 30, 2005 9:18:57 pm
Stereotyping in movies exists not only in Bollywood but in Hollywood and probably all other film industries as well. Some people find stereotyped roles to be derogatory while others have a good laugh and just brush them off. Jo Bole So Nihal is but an example as there are some who have an issue with it, while others don`t. The punch line of the movie, ``No if, no but, sirf Jatt`` is in principle against the Sikh religion. Objection to that by a Sikh religious body is understandable but not arguments like only Sikhs should play Sikh roles in movies. That is just plain stupid. Calling for a ban of the movie is also a very unwelome move as are statements by the SGPC head to the effect that Sikhs know how to deal with this in their own way. The SGPC is in no way representative of the Sikh community or its mouthpiece for that matter. However, they have rightly condemned the violence as any protests to the movie should`ve been made in a democratic manner.
Good cinema, for me, is cinema that breaks through stereotypes and is thought provoking. There is certainly a dearth of such cinema the world over. It`s perhaps easier to conform to set norms.
It is true that there are very few roles in Bollywood that are multidiemsional as far as Sikhs are concerned. They are either made fun off or their bravery and valor is exemplified be it in the army or otherwise. I maybe wrong, but prior to Jo Bole, I remember only Vijeta as having a turbuned Sikh as the (young) lead character. Sikhs appear in Bollywood more often than not for comic effect.
Cayenne, the SGPC head is addressed as Bibi Jagir Kaur; absolutely nothing wrong with that. Calling someone ``Bibi`` is in no way disrespescting them and being from the villages does not imply being unknowledgeable.
A true Sikh, someone who beleives in the Guru, will never support the caste system. I guess that is what Delhiwala means when he says ``practicing sikhs``. As far as I remember, Bibi Jagir Kaur had an issue with her daughter`s wedding not beause the boy was from another caste but because he was not a keshadhari Sikh, i.e, he did not have unshorn hair. Her alleged involvement in her daughter`s wedding is disturbing to say the least.
I haven`t got a chance to read all the interacts but I did glance through some and came across arguments about the status of punjabi in Pakistan. None of my Pakistani Punjabi friends speak Punjabi at home or otherwise as they consider it to be unsophisticated and below their status. To speak flawless Urdu is a confirmation of their elite status. Without doubt Punjabi is faring better in Indian Punjab as it is taught in shools and there is a vibrant Punjabi Press. As far as I remember, there is only one school in Pakistan (in Lahore) where Punjabi is taught and one Punjabi magazine.
Romair, please do not refer to Sikhs as Sardarjis as the latter implies only the male population of the Sikhs and has also become a derogatory term, one that is used in Sikh jokes. I don`t agree with you when you say that for a language to survive, a separate nation needs to be formed. India was a unique experiment in that sense and even today every state has its own language(s) that are taught in schools and are part of the government machinery of the state. However, the world over, English has today become the most coveted language due to economic benefits. Even France is beginning to come to terms with that. So being a nation does not guarantee preservation of a language. If the predominant language of the world has become English, it will remain the most sought after language irrespective of the native language. At the state level in India, efforts(however inadequate) are made to preserve the langauge of the land. Not so in Pakistan.
``Ghalib, easily the best poet ever of Urdu, and perhaps of any language in South Asia (or even the world), wrote his best work in Persian.`` This is very very subjective so don`t make a generalization of it. Saying that Ghlalib is the best poet ever of Urdu is completely different from saying that he was perhaps the best of any South Asian language. How many other South Asian poets have you studied?
Every language is beautiful and to say that any one is more so than the other is pure chauvanism. Language should also transcend religious lines and be preserved and promoted at both the State and people to people level.
Good cinema, for me, is cinema that breaks through stereotypes and is thought provoking. There is certainly a dearth of such cinema the world over. It`s perhaps easier to conform to set norms.
It is true that there are very few roles in Bollywood that are multidiemsional as far as Sikhs are concerned. They are either made fun off or their bravery and valor is exemplified be it in the army or otherwise. I maybe wrong, but prior to Jo Bole, I remember only Vijeta as having a turbuned Sikh as the (young) lead character. Sikhs appear in Bollywood more often than not for comic effect.
Cayenne, the SGPC head is addressed as Bibi Jagir Kaur; absolutely nothing wrong with that. Calling someone ``Bibi`` is in no way disrespescting them and being from the villages does not imply being unknowledgeable.
A true Sikh, someone who beleives in the Guru, will never support the caste system. I guess that is what Delhiwala means when he says ``practicing sikhs``. As far as I remember, Bibi Jagir Kaur had an issue with her daughter`s wedding not beause the boy was from another caste but because he was not a keshadhari Sikh, i.e, he did not have unshorn hair. Her alleged involvement in her daughter`s wedding is disturbing to say the least.
I haven`t got a chance to read all the interacts but I did glance through some and came across arguments about the status of punjabi in Pakistan. None of my Pakistani Punjabi friends speak Punjabi at home or otherwise as they consider it to be unsophisticated and below their status. To speak flawless Urdu is a confirmation of their elite status. Without doubt Punjabi is faring better in Indian Punjab as it is taught in shools and there is a vibrant Punjabi Press. As far as I remember, there is only one school in Pakistan (in Lahore) where Punjabi is taught and one Punjabi magazine.
Romair, please do not refer to Sikhs as Sardarjis as the latter implies only the male population of the Sikhs and has also become a derogatory term, one that is used in Sikh jokes. I don`t agree with you when you say that for a language to survive, a separate nation needs to be formed. India was a unique experiment in that sense and even today every state has its own language(s) that are taught in schools and are part of the government machinery of the state. However, the world over, English has today become the most coveted language due to economic benefits. Even France is beginning to come to terms with that. So being a nation does not guarantee preservation of a language. If the predominant language of the world has become English, it will remain the most sought after language irrespective of the native language. At the state level in India, efforts(however inadequate) are made to preserve the langauge of the land. Not so in Pakistan.
``Ghalib, easily the best poet ever of Urdu, and perhaps of any language in South Asia (or even the world), wrote his best work in Persian.`` This is very very subjective so don`t make a generalization of it. Saying that Ghlalib is the best poet ever of Urdu is completely different from saying that he was perhaps the best of any South Asian language. How many other South Asian poets have you studied?
Every language is beautiful and to say that any one is more so than the other is pure chauvanism. Language should also transcend religious lines and be preserved and promoted at both the State and people to people level.
#56 Posted by Romair on May 30, 2005 6:56:24 pm
vivek #43: ``My point is that don`t expect hindi movies to project anything with sensitivity.``
All said and done, I have to admit I am a pretty big fan of Indian movies. I have seen them all; including the ones that are heavily anti-Pakistan. There have been quite a few (actually few hundred) boring nights, I have spent in the boondocks of Pakistan, where the only entertainment available to us was Indian movies. So I cannot complain.........
They aren`t that great, but they are good enough. And most of all, nothing better is available in a non-foreign language. And the Indian actresses have started looking better and better. Some of them, like Karishma Kapoor, have even started spending time in the gym........
I started watching Indian movies exactly in the summer vacations of 1980. Laawaris, with Amitabh and Zeenat Aman was the first one I watched. Raaz, the mystery movie, with Raakhi (?) and Raj Babbar was the second. Followed by one with Poonam and Rekha (can`t remember the name). They were both married to the same guy - Rishi Kapoor.
So if we average one movie per week (including re-runs), over 25 years, that equals around 1500 movies. The real figure is probably quite a bit lower, but definitely well into the hundreds........
In any case, for any of Indian colleagues on this site: Pakistanis have moved on. They moved on, a while back. Barring a small minority, they are not into anti-India stuff. It is pretty difficult for the govt. to get them riled up on things like Siachen, BJP etc. It is evident on this site, and it is evident in events like cricket matches, etc. And in surveys........Hardly anyone in Pakistan complained when Musharraf significantly altered Pakistan`s position on Kashmir, recently.......
Even, Dost-mittar, who is convinced that every Muslim in the world is commanded by Islam to kill him, since he is a Hindu, seems to feel relatively safe in Pakistan........
I think Indians are slowly starting to move on, regarding anti-Pakistan stuff also. It will take some time to filter out the govt. propoganda, since most know next to nothing about Pakistan. But as they learn more about Pakistan, they will move on faster. While it is still possible to get Indians riled up on things like Kargil etc., however I think the market for anti-Pakistan movies, in India, is dying down. Movies like Veer-Zara etc. seem to be the new flavor of the month, in India.........
There are many Pakistanis who have written articles, on this site, on prominent Indians. I have, myself, written two. There is one from a Pakistani on the front page, right now. Perhaps the day isn`t far off, when we will see the first Indian on this site, write an article about a prominent Pakistani. It hasn`t happened yet. But there is still hope...........
I would like to make one suggestion: instead of being, ``pretty sure`` about things, which have not been explored. One should have, ``no opinion,`` then explore them and then form an opinion.............
All said and done, I have to admit I am a pretty big fan of Indian movies. I have seen them all; including the ones that are heavily anti-Pakistan. There have been quite a few (actually few hundred) boring nights, I have spent in the boondocks of Pakistan, where the only entertainment available to us was Indian movies. So I cannot complain.........
They aren`t that great, but they are good enough. And most of all, nothing better is available in a non-foreign language. And the Indian actresses have started looking better and better. Some of them, like Karishma Kapoor, have even started spending time in the gym........
I started watching Indian movies exactly in the summer vacations of 1980. Laawaris, with Amitabh and Zeenat Aman was the first one I watched. Raaz, the mystery movie, with Raakhi (?) and Raj Babbar was the second. Followed by one with Poonam and Rekha (can`t remember the name). They were both married to the same guy - Rishi Kapoor.
So if we average one movie per week (including re-runs), over 25 years, that equals around 1500 movies. The real figure is probably quite a bit lower, but definitely well into the hundreds........
In any case, for any of Indian colleagues on this site: Pakistanis have moved on. They moved on, a while back. Barring a small minority, they are not into anti-India stuff. It is pretty difficult for the govt. to get them riled up on things like Siachen, BJP etc. It is evident on this site, and it is evident in events like cricket matches, etc. And in surveys........Hardly anyone in Pakistan complained when Musharraf significantly altered Pakistan`s position on Kashmir, recently.......
Even, Dost-mittar, who is convinced that every Muslim in the world is commanded by Islam to kill him, since he is a Hindu, seems to feel relatively safe in Pakistan........
I think Indians are slowly starting to move on, regarding anti-Pakistan stuff also. It will take some time to filter out the govt. propoganda, since most know next to nothing about Pakistan. But as they learn more about Pakistan, they will move on faster. While it is still possible to get Indians riled up on things like Kargil etc., however I think the market for anti-Pakistan movies, in India, is dying down. Movies like Veer-Zara etc. seem to be the new flavor of the month, in India.........
There are many Pakistanis who have written articles, on this site, on prominent Indians. I have, myself, written two. There is one from a Pakistani on the front page, right now. Perhaps the day isn`t far off, when we will see the first Indian on this site, write an article about a prominent Pakistani. It hasn`t happened yet. But there is still hope...........
I would like to make one suggestion: instead of being, ``pretty sure`` about things, which have not been explored. One should have, ``no opinion,`` then explore them and then form an opinion.............
#55 Posted by rsridhar on May 30, 2005 6:53:08 pm
re: Romair`s post
``How many Pakistani movies, in any language, have you seen? ...``
Are they still making movies in Pakistan? I thought that was as good as dead. Meeras of this world can relax. Bollywood is welcoming them with open arms.
Sridhar
``How many Pakistani movies, in any language, have you seen? ...``
Are they still making movies in Pakistan? I thought that was as good as dead. Meeras of this world can relax. Bollywood is welcoming them with open arms.
Sridhar
#54 Posted by rsridhar on May 30, 2005 6:49:11 pm
re: Romair`s post
``I think when the Sardarjis voluntarily accepted joining with India, they voluntarily also accepted that Punjabi - the language of their religion - would die down also. Because Punjabi would be a tiny minority in a large country, which had Hindi and English as the major langauges. If they were passionately concerned about Punjabi`s survival, they should have asked for a nation of their own. At the very least, they should struggle within India, for linguistic rights, much like the Quebecors in Canada, if they are so passionate about the language of their religion. Currently Punjabi is recognized as a language by the Indian Constitution. However, I am not sure if that is enough for it to survive the economic forces of Hindi and English.``
This is the kind of crap that goes to prove Romair mian is still on the stuff that is peddled from across the Afghan border.
Sikhs have preserved Punjabi much better than Punjabis in Pakistan have preserved it. Punjabi hegemony in Pakistan is causing much friction with Sindhis. Sindhis are now questioning their right of accession to Pakistan.
Sridhar
``I think when the Sardarjis voluntarily accepted joining with India, they voluntarily also accepted that Punjabi - the language of their religion - would die down also. Because Punjabi would be a tiny minority in a large country, which had Hindi and English as the major langauges. If they were passionately concerned about Punjabi`s survival, they should have asked for a nation of their own. At the very least, they should struggle within India, for linguistic rights, much like the Quebecors in Canada, if they are so passionate about the language of their religion. Currently Punjabi is recognized as a language by the Indian Constitution. However, I am not sure if that is enough for it to survive the economic forces of Hindi and English.``
This is the kind of crap that goes to prove Romair mian is still on the stuff that is peddled from across the Afghan border.
Sikhs have preserved Punjabi much better than Punjabis in Pakistan have preserved it. Punjabi hegemony in Pakistan is causing much friction with Sindhis. Sindhis are now questioning their right of accession to Pakistan.
Sridhar
#53 Posted by cayenne on May 30, 2005 6:15:12 pm
Re: # 36
Dear Aha_Snarl,
Ask the puthars who bombed the theater in Delhi about your misgivings.AAH!!.So, Aha_Snark did check out the links.You PHONY you.I`m sorry , i find this article quite blase`, if you will.I`d look at photos of unShining indians too.Why?.Ain`t i communicating with you?.I am considerate to all.
Kisses,
cayenne
Dear Aha_Snarl,
Ask the puthars who bombed the theater in Delhi about your misgivings.AAH!!.So, Aha_Snark did check out the links.You PHONY you.I`m sorry , i find this article quite blase`, if you will.I`d look at photos of unShining indians too.Why?.Ain`t i communicating with you?.I am considerate to all.
Kisses,
cayenne
#52 Posted by rsridhar on May 30, 2005 6:14:42 pm
re:#19 by dost-mittar
I saw ``Morning Raga`` too. Amazing acting by Shabana Azmi who acts as a Carnatic singer. I saw an interview by her on T.V some months ago (before the movie was released). She said she had to learn the basics of Carnatic singing before actiing in the movie. She actually sang a ``Ganapathi Stuti`` to the utter delight of my mom who was watching the program on T.V with me at that time.
Sridhar
I saw ``Morning Raga`` too. Amazing acting by Shabana Azmi who acts as a Carnatic singer. I saw an interview by her on T.V some months ago (before the movie was released). She said she had to learn the basics of Carnatic singing before actiing in the movie. She actually sang a ``Ganapathi Stuti`` to the utter delight of my mom who was watching the program on T.V with me at that time.
Sridhar
#51 Posted by m_souza on May 30, 2005 6:13:28 pm
Re: # 46
Ally, just like you can`t speak good Hindi even if you try to( not that you will)...similarly why should Hindi speakers be expected to speak Urdu words in the same manner as Urdu speakers. Hindi speakers are proud of their ancietn Sanskrit heritage just as you all are of your Arabic/Perisn one.
My father (I don`t call him Abbu....I call him Dad...because if I call him `Pita ji` or `Pita Shri` then non-Hindus will make fun of me, calling me a Hindu fanatic, that is because I am a majority).
anyway..my father basically was from pre-partition India(renamed Pakistan later) and live dther till the age of 8 or 9. He loved speaking in Urdu and writing too. But I feel I`ll vomit if I try to say GH...KH...really I get a strange feeling and stomach churning when I listen to very pure Urdu.
Simple nice Urdu is fine and sweet but the heavy Persian/Arabic style doesn`t appeal me at all.
Ally, just like you can`t speak good Hindi even if you try to( not that you will)...similarly why should Hindi speakers be expected to speak Urdu words in the same manner as Urdu speakers. Hindi speakers are proud of their ancietn Sanskrit heritage just as you all are of your Arabic/Perisn one.
My father (I don`t call him Abbu....I call him Dad...because if I call him `Pita ji` or `Pita Shri` then non-Hindus will make fun of me, calling me a Hindu fanatic, that is because I am a majority).
anyway..my father basically was from pre-partition India(renamed Pakistan later) and live dther till the age of 8 or 9. He loved speaking in Urdu and writing too. But I feel I`ll vomit if I try to say GH...KH...really I get a strange feeling and stomach churning when I listen to very pure Urdu.
Simple nice Urdu is fine and sweet but the heavy Persian/Arabic style doesn`t appeal me at all.
#50 Posted by rsridhar on May 30, 2005 6:09:30 pm
re: Bollywood movies
I think Bollywood movies are fun to watch if u are willing to suspend your brain activity for the 3 hours u are watching them and do not try to make any sense out of them. That said, i did like the last movie i saw that goes by the name of ``Black``. It had some superb actiing by a kid who acts as deaf and dumb and good acting by Rani Mukherjee. AB did a lot of overaciting but i am sure most Indians would not even notice it.
Steroetyping about ``madrassi`` character has gone on for so long that this is not even funny anymore. Movies in the 50s and 60s made fun of the ``madrassi`` accent and ``dosa`` or ``idli`` eating madrassi. Now-a-days, these are common items even in North. Besides, third generation ``Madrassis`` like me can put a North Indian to shame with my ``faultless`` hindi. So, i think the moronic North Indians have yet to realize that these things are not funny but annoying.
Somebody said ``Nobody makes movies showing Muslims negatively because they know that there will be riots and also Bollywood has considerable Muslim population....``
That is not true. Muslims are shown either as very patriotic or as smugglers or villains. How many hindi movies have shown a muslim character as a normal being doing things that normal beings do? Not one, i bet. Has Bollywood ever made a movie in which a muslim character was a hero? or a Sikh character? See my point?
Sridhar
I think Bollywood movies are fun to watch if u are willing to suspend your brain activity for the 3 hours u are watching them and do not try to make any sense out of them. That said, i did like the last movie i saw that goes by the name of ``Black``. It had some superb actiing by a kid who acts as deaf and dumb and good acting by Rani Mukherjee. AB did a lot of overaciting but i am sure most Indians would not even notice it.
Steroetyping about ``madrassi`` character has gone on for so long that this is not even funny anymore. Movies in the 50s and 60s made fun of the ``madrassi`` accent and ``dosa`` or ``idli`` eating madrassi. Now-a-days, these are common items even in North. Besides, third generation ``Madrassis`` like me can put a North Indian to shame with my ``faultless`` hindi. So, i think the moronic North Indians have yet to realize that these things are not funny but annoying.
Somebody said ``Nobody makes movies showing Muslims negatively because they know that there will be riots and also Bollywood has considerable Muslim population....``
That is not true. Muslims are shown either as very patriotic or as smugglers or villains. How many hindi movies have shown a muslim character as a normal being doing things that normal beings do? Not one, i bet. Has Bollywood ever made a movie in which a muslim character was a hero? or a Sikh character? See my point?
Sridhar
#49 Posted by m_souza on May 30, 2005 6:02:54 pm
Re: # 27
``I think that I can say for all Indians, when I say that Urdu is pretty much exclusive to Muslims in India. No new Non-Muslim speakers of Urdu are added in India since 1947.``
That may not be true. People who speak Hindi also very widely use Urdu words, some even speak pure Urdu too as I saw in Lucknow and Hyderabad. And these are Hindu speakers.
Also how many people in Pakistan learn Hindi for that matter. And yet, they speak plenty of Hindi words.
delhiwalla...why didn`t you learn Urdu? Maybe we can have at least one Non-Muslim speaker of Urdu added in India since 1947.
``I think that I can say for all Indians, when I say that Urdu is pretty much exclusive to Muslims in India. No new Non-Muslim speakers of Urdu are added in India since 1947.``
That may not be true. People who speak Hindi also very widely use Urdu words, some even speak pure Urdu too as I saw in Lucknow and Hyderabad. And these are Hindu speakers.
Also how many people in Pakistan learn Hindi for that matter. And yet, they speak plenty of Hindi words.
delhiwalla...why didn`t you learn Urdu? Maybe we can have at least one Non-Muslim speaker of Urdu added in India since 1947.
#48 Posted by m_souza on May 30, 2005 6:01:33 pm
Re: # 27
``I think that I can say for all Indians, when I say that Urdu is pretty much exclusive to Muslims in India. No new Non-Muslim speakers of Urdu are added in India since 1947.``
That may not be true. People who speak Hindi also very widely use Urdu words, some even speak pure Urdu too as I saw in Lucknow and Hyderabad. And these are Hindu speakers.
Also how many people in Pakistan learn Hindi for that matter. And yet, they speak plenty of Hindi words.
delhiwalla...why didn`t you learn Urdu? Mayeb we can have at least one Non-Muslim speaker of Urdu added in India since 1947.
``I think that I can say for all Indians, when I say that Urdu is pretty much exclusive to Muslims in India. No new Non-Muslim speakers of Urdu are added in India since 1947.``
That may not be true. People who speak Hindi also very widely use Urdu words, some even speak pure Urdu too as I saw in Lucknow and Hyderabad. And these are Hindu speakers.
Also how many people in Pakistan learn Hindi for that matter. And yet, they speak plenty of Hindi words.
delhiwalla...why didn`t you learn Urdu? Mayeb we can have at least one Non-Muslim speaker of Urdu added in India since 1947.
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