Communal Stereotyping in Bollywood Movies

Re: # 78

DMji,

Who are Amrit-Dhaari Sikhs? The fellow I`m talking about always wears a white turban (don`t know whether it is relevant). He REALLY doesn not serve non-veg, though he may have taken me for a ride on the Kashmiri part.

You are right on the maansahaari bent of Kashmiri Pandits, I know some :-)

I thought Taamsik-Saatvik concept is only applicable for Vaishnavs. Aren`t Bengalis and Punjabis Shakts (Shakti-poojak)?

rahulmal#76

That dhaba-wallah did pull a fast one on you because Kashmiri Pandits are, in general, voracious meat eaters. It could be that he was baptised as an amrit-dhari sikh who generally do not eat meat. Until 2-3 generations ago, most sikhs, especially khatris refrained from eating meat, but as far as I know there is nothing in Guru Granth Sahib on this issue. There is one verse which advises against eating food which is potentially harmful to body or mind (jis khaaDyan tan peediye, man mein pade vikaar) and some people might interpret it as an advice against eating Tamsik food. As a kid, I remember that we called meat Maa-Pershad, which I believe might be derived for Maha Prasad or Mother Durga`s Prasad.

Bengalis still serve meat during Durga Pooja but non-vegetarian food is never served in the gurudwara. Bhindarnwale`s military advisor, Shahbeg Singh, was very fond of meat and, while holed up in the Golden Temple, tried to convince Bhindranwale that it was alright for a religious sikh to eat meat. He did not succeed.

Simran ji

You say:-
`A turbuned sikh shouting, ``no if, no but, sirf Jatt``, is kind of an oxymoron because Sikhism as no caste`

No it does not convey what you are stating. Had it been `no if no but sikh sirf jatt` then your conclusion would have been correct.

For that matter why it is okay to have public religious identity but wrong to have ethnic racial identity? I am sure makers of this movie were not scrutinising any religious scriptures to see if this is right or wrong because they had no intention to injure the sentiments of any community. For them they were making a simple out and out comedy.

As all of us know in the practical world casteism among followers of Sikhism is widely prevalent and here I am only talking about ground realities and not what is prescribed, so why always look for an ideal situations in movies which in any case are a combination of facts in a make believe world.

The tragedy in the world at present is that every ideology, every philosophy is becoming regressive. We in this part of the world has learnt one great thing from followers of Islam and that is perpetually being sensitive to everything pertaining to religion. Shiv sena and Bajrang Dal is always up in arms on every real and imaginary injury to their senstivities. And now sikh religious bodies are having problems with a film title even when title has not been used in a derogatory or negative manner. In case there is some serious problems then one can always raise this issue in a civilised manner so that such acts are not repeated. Compelling makers of the movie who happen to be sikhs to withdraw this movie or going on rampage as shiv sena does is just not acceptable to common man on the street.

All of us should simply think about good old days when we could laugh at ourselves and also others without bothering too much about their senstivities and everyone was expected to take humour in the right spirit.

Regards

Re: # 73

``A turbuned sikh shouting, ``no if, no but, sirf Jatt``, is kind of an oxymoron because Sikhism as no caste. ``

Simran ji,

It is heartening to note that you are well-versed with the tenets of Sikhi and share them with fellow Chowkies. But, there are ground realities which must be acknowledged. It is no secret that Dharam Paji won his election from a constituency which had Jat majority. He is a popular actor and might have romped home even from some other constituency, but the party he represented did not take a chance. The party I`m talking about ostensibly supports end of casteism. Demands of practicality dictate such decisions and not some ersatz concept like `pillars of religion`. The producer of the movie also tried to take advantage of the prevalent `sense of superiority` amongst Jat Sikhs, as you pointed in your post.

Couple of years back, we used to go to a Dhaba for lunch. The proprietor was a turbaned Sikh. Having got bored of eating the same vegetables and tandoori rotis, we asked him for Egg Bhurji. The man refused to serve anything `non-veg` saying, ``Saab ji, Hum Pundit Hain, meat, anda nahin khate``; even my Kannadiga friend who has never been North of Vindhyas couldn`t suppress his smile of incredulity. On being probed, he told us that he is Kashmiri Pundit and even though they have converted to Sikhi, they still don`t eat meat. I don`t know whether he pulled a fast one :-)

#64 lokraj ``Khamosh Paani is a joint Indo-Pak venture``


I don`t think so. Khamosh Paani was a Pakistani project with German and French collaboration. Indian distributers at one time were worrying about even being able to show the film in India. I don`t know why or how some Indians are now calling it a joint Indo-Pak venture. It was nothing of the sort.

Ghalib is available in Devnaagri. So are Faiz,Sahir,Insha,Parveen Shakir,Josh etc.Try Rajkamal Publications 8/9 DaryaGanj Delhi. I would be very surprised if Ghalib is not taught in India somewhere. I know Manto is in the curricullum in Jamia Milia Islamia,New Delhi.
kaalchakra, ``There aren`t many in India who would not want to know/read of Ghalib more than they already do (which is woefully little). `` The woefully little part is not true.

A turbuned sikh shouting, ``no if, no but, sirf Jatt``, is kind of an oxymoron because Sikhism as no caste. So to stress `Jatt-ness` is in principle against the tenets of the religion. This is especially relevant today when Jatt Sikhs have a sense of superiority over the others and say they are `Jatt Sikh`, instead of just Sikh. Religious bodies objecting to such casteist projections of the religion is understandable in my opinion.

Ally, it is very heartening to know that you and your relatives speak Punjabi at home. My interaction with Pakistanis covers a wide cross section of society, comprising of people from different strata and cities such as Lahore, Rawalpindi, Sialkot, Gujranwale, Islamabad and so on (but I agree that it might be limited in some sense because I haven`t been to Pakistan myself). Even though they followed Punabi, none of them wanted to speak it. Infact one of them expressed surprise and said that I was the first woman he`d heard speaking in Punjabi with such fluency! Others said that they spoke it with shop keepers or their grand parents and that with their parents, and amongst people of their age group, they spoke Urdu. But this is not specific to Pakistan. Even in Indian Punjab (in the cities) some parents speak to each other in Punjabi but switch to Hindi with their kids. I maybe wrong, but it`s been my observation that this is more prevalent among Punjabi Hindus.

Hindvi, I have two different translations and interpretations of Ghalib at my place and have been fortunate enough to have read him. He is, without doubt one of the greatest poets of Urdu and the sub continent. But there are others, in my opinion, on an equal footing with him. What I had a problem with is that a generalization was made in that he is perhaps the greatest in South asia if not the world. My point is that this is very subjective and to stress with authority that his superiority is supreme, is incorrect. He might be your favourite and in your opinion the best in the world, but you cannot force that on me. I beg to differ and can name many other South Asian poets that I admire just as highly, if not more, than Ghalib. As long as it wasn`t meant in a sacrosanct way, I`m fine with what you or Romair said.

Jang, rejection of caste is just one aspect of being a Sikh.

Continuing with my theme that this essay is very trite and not worth a hoot, i would prefer to look at these awesome photos of ` God`s own country` Kerala and i invite you to do the same....

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=207361


Definitely more interesting.India is a very diverse place.So , some look more peculiar than others.So what?.

#70

I have a pdf with some of Galib`s most famous work (about 30 pages) in Devnagri script with persian words explained.

If you are interested e-mail me at bongdongs@yahoo.com

re: hindvi # 60

You are probably right. Hopefully Ghalib`s work will become popularly available in a script we can understand. There aren`t many in India who would not want to know/read of Ghalib more than they already do (which is woefully little).

Ghalib and Faiz - time hasn`t taken the shine off their names, not in India. It is frustrating to not be able to enjoy them as much as we would like to.

That said, Punjabi is the language of a very large number of people. It should not be starved of support for any reason.

ally#66;

I saw it at a desi video rental store. Google turned up this site: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0357283/

Romair:

Glad you clarified.

Dost-mittar #63: ``This is a perfect example of distorting one`s statement. We were discussing a rather abstract question on the Farzana Versey board, namely - which is easier to respect :a person or a person`s religious beliefs? And I had stated:``

Where is your sense of humor? I am surprised you have so much difficulty differentiating between my humor and my non-humor

(Having said that, I still think that deep down inside, you are convinced that I am living in sin, since I have not made an attempt to kill you, as of yet...............)

hindi movies dont show sikhs in lead roles is due to beards and head-gear. 99% of the lead roles are chocolate heros, and that is why the leads are not lungi-coconut-oil keralite either. i was impressed to see an ``ordinary muslim`` role in munnabhai MBBS.. a guy (patient) who comes to mumbai for a job and is detected with some terminal desease. but in general a ``normal`` actor is ``Rohit Khanna``, a bengali has a rassogulla in each cheek, a ghati is a silly havildar (cop), pathan is a loyal friend pining for his homeland, madrassi has a ``funny`` accent and poorbi-bhayya is pan-eating-bhang-making dhobi. also, i suddenly realized that i am a real-practising sikh since i dont believe in caste-based discrimination.

Dost-Mittar

Can you give me a website of where i can get the DVD from. Thanks. Sabiha hubby is a Sri Lankan guy, dunno his name!

drlokraj:

The dvd of Khamosh Pani is now available, at least in Canada. Yes, I am aware of the Indian participation in the film and that it was banned in Pakistan. The Pakistani director also, I believe, lives in New Delhi with her non-muslim husband.

Re: # 63
DM ji,
Khamosh Paani is a joint Indo-Pak venture.directed by Sabiha and the lead role is played by Kiron Kher.I have heard /read a lot about it but have not been able to get its DVD.More such joint ventures are required.Lot of work being done in theatre at least since few years and Almi Punjabi Conferences are also helping to great extent in bridging the gaps.