Communal Stereotyping in Bollywood Movies

``wah bhaee wah!

aaj tO yahaaN urdu aur hindi per baat ho rahi hay

humaray ghalib chacha is ko hindustani kehtay thay

yeh aaj bhee hindustan aur pakistan donON kay aik buhat baRay hissay maiN boli aur samjhi jaat hay``

***

now two questions:

(for those who are familiar with hindu only)

1: what is the language of this quote?

(for those who are familiar with urdu only)

2: what is the language of this quote?

Romair #38,
My point is that don`t expect hindi movies to project anything with sensitivity.

#39 Romair ``How many Pakistani movies, in any language, have you seen? ``
Yaar Romair I still get nightmares from the memory - condemned in afterlife to watching that Pakistani pichure forever....oooh....there is story behind how I came to watch but it is too painful to recount.
But it is not all that bad - been a big admirer of the TV plays and comedies (incl Bakra Kishton Pay).

Romair,

This is what Wikipedia says

``The largest difference between Urdu and Hindi is that Urdu is written in the Nasta`liq form of the modified Arabic script while Hindi is written in the Devanagari script.``

This is from the Hindi link

``Hindi along with Urdu is the second most spoken language in the world, after Chinese.``

So, both of us went to the same source and came out with different conclusions :-) You`ve found what massages your ego and I`ve found what interests me. We can argue till the end of time, but the fact is that Urdu/Hindi are one and the same language written in different scripts. Urdu became the rallying point of partition-partisans as reflected in slogan ``Urdu, Muslim, Pakistan`` while Hindi became the counter-point, ``Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan``.

It doesn`t take much to spin a new language if you have the political clout. The CARs are a case to support my point. Early 20th century, all CARs spoke mutually intelleigible forms of Turkish. The Russians made each of these dialects the official language of the corresponding republic and today Uzbek, Tukrmen, Kazakh and Kirghiz are pretty much different languages. Do you know what is the official language of Indonesia and how did it come into being?

``If they (Sardarjis) were passionately concerned about Punjabi`s survival, they should have asked for a nation of their own``

This tells us where you are coming from.

Bhains ke aage been bajawe, bhains khadi paguraaye Since Hindi and Urdu are different languages, you`ll not understand what is written above and I`ll be spared the reprisals, Thank God...

re: Romair # 39

Has Pakistan ever produced an anti Hindu movie?


re: Romair # 40

Urdu is a non Islamic, Indian language. Yet from the start, the elite of a country that was supposed to be Islamic and not a part of India committed themselves to this Indian, non Islamic language and helped it dominate Pakistan`s local languages. How come?

By any objective measure, local languages, including Punjabi, are in stronger position in India than they are in Pakistan.

Netizen #14: ``I guess it is urdu as it will have a larger audience in and outside pak.``

How many Pakistani movies, in any language, have you seen?

The largest movie industry in Pakistan is in Punjabi. Urdu movie industry nearly died. It is only now being revived. By far the most popular movie actors and actresses in Pakistan are famous for Punjabi movies.............

vivek #4: ``Don`t know why you feel so bad about the patriotic movies. I am pretty sure that there are anti-India movies made in Pakistan. So it evens out, no problemo.``

There are very few, if any, anti-India movies made in Pakistan. There is no market for them. The reason is quite simple: Pakistanis have become far too exposed to India, over the years, through various reasons; Indian movies being one of them. Hence it is quite difficult to sell an out and out anti-India movie in Pakistan. (I think it is slowly becoming difficult to sell anti-Pakistan movies in India also, as Indians have started learning about Pakistan)........

So the same thing will happen in India, as Indians gain more knowledge of Pakistan. For example, those Indians who visited Pakistan, during the cricket matches, will now, probably, think twice, before accepting anti-Pakistan movies.

Anti-any country movies only thrive when people exist in a vacuum about the, ``other.`` The fact that you are, ``pretty sure`` that there are anti-India movies made in Pakistan, even though you have no knowledge of Pakistani movies, is an indication that this vacuum still exists in India..........However, as you learn about Pakistani movies and about Pakistan, the vacuum will (hopefully) disappear in India, also.........

delhiwalla #27: ``I think that I can say for all Indians, when I say that Urdu is pretty much exclusive to Muslims in India. No new Non-Muslim speakers of Urdu are added in India since 1947.``

If this is true, then I must say it is quite sad. Urdu is a beautiful language. It`s poetry is so powerful. It is sad to see that it is divided along religious lines in India, if what you say is correct. Urdu is truly the Kohinoor of India. It originated in India, itself, being a combination of the various cultures that swept through Indus and Ganga regions..........One can, perhaps, attirbute the courtly language of Persian as an imposition on India. But Urdu was born in India.....Actually, there was no India, back then, so a creation of the Sub-Continent......

There are far more individuals who consider Urdu their mother tongue, in India, then there are in Pakistan............

So much so, that the spoken language in India is more Urdu than Hindi. The words used in popular Bollywood movies are Urdu, grammatically, moreso than Hindi........In fact, Urdu is the second most spoken langauge in the world, after Mandarin (I am assuming the spoken form of Hindi to be Urdu)...........

``Even though origin was an amalgam of hindi, turki or arabi, it is still considered Muslim language, most probably due to it`s script being Arabic and not Devnagri related.``

You have a tendency to look at everything from religious lines. And that too in a construed manner. Urdu falls into the category of Indo-European languages. Urdu`s origin is actually rooted mostly in Turkish. It`s script is actually an Arabic-Persian script. This script has nothing to do with Islam. Arabic script, names etc. pre-date Islam by many centuries. Even now in Arab countries, there are Chrisitians (and I assume Jews also) with Arabic names. Who read and write Arabic script, like Hussain, Ali etc. Because they are Arabs............And Pakistani and Persian Parsis share common names with Pakistani and Iran Muslims, like Jamshed, Pervez etc..........

There is no, ``Islamic`` language, as such.......Be it Arabic, Persian, Turkish, Urdu etc. Relgions don`t create or obliterate languages. They adapt to the langauges..........

If we use your logic, then Punjabi is a Sikh language. And everyone who is not a Sikh should stop speaking it. And no new Non-Sikh speaker of Punjabi should be added to Punjab..................In fact, if you trace the roots of Punjabi back to its origin, then it becomes, using your definition, a Hindu language...........Hence, extrapolating your logic, only Hindus should speak it. When in fact, today, the largest speakers of Punjabi in the world, by a large margin are Muslims........

Some of the greatest writers and poets in Urdu, like Faiz and Iqbal are originally Punjabi speakers. Ghalib, easily the best poet ever of Urdu, and perhaps of any language in South Asia (or even the world), wrote his best work in Persian. Yet also wrote in Urdu, also..........Iqbal wrote in Persian also......Some of the best Urdu singers are Punjabi speakers, and some of the best Punjabi singers are Urdu speakers......

You would be well-advised to get out of relating everything, from langauge onwards, to religion. I can understand your addiction, for religious reasons, to Punjabi. But you should not force it upon others. Others should be free to follow any language that appeals to them. If a Hindu likes Urdu, he/she should add himself/herself to the list of Urdu speakers, without worrying about the language`s, ``religion.``

In today`s world, languages need a nation surrrounding them to survive. This is due to economic reasons. Hebrew is only surviving because of the creation of Israel. Urdu will survive because of the creation of Pakistan. Bengali because of Bangladesh. Pushtu because of Afghanistan. Farsi because of Iran. So on and so forth. Some countries, as they progress are bringing back old langauges. Gallic in Ireland being an example, which is their official langauge along with English. However, Wales will have a hard time bringing Welsh back, as it is a part of UK, and not a fully independent country.

Quebecors will break away from Canada, tomorrow, if French ceases to be a national language. Keeping a language alive requires a lot of effort and struggle.

If people voluntarily amulgamate themselves, into a nation, then they have, themselves accepted the eventual domination of the national language over their local and/or religious language. They have chosen the economic benefits of being in a large country, over the linguistic benefits of keeping, ``their`` language alive.

I think when the Sardarjis voluntarily accepted joining with India, they voluntarily also accepted that Punjabi - the language of their religion - would die down also. Because Punjabi would be a tiny minority in a large country, which had Hindi and English as the major langauges. If they were passionately concerned about Punjabi`s survival, they should have asked for a nation of their own. At the very least, they should struggle within India, for linguistic rights, much like the Quebecors in Canada, if they are so passionate about the language of their religion. Currently Punjabi is recognized as a language by the Indian Constitution. However, I am not sure if that is enough for it to survive the economic forces of Hindi and English.

Declaring Urdu an Islamic langauge, that no non-Muslim should learn in India, and one that should be considered, ``alien`` in Pakistan, to push the survival of Punjabi is an illogical and counterproductive solution.............

Some cool pics of indian metros....

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=215628

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=212621

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=215851

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=216589

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=216144

Is definitely more enjoyable than reading this article.

Re: # 35
Dear Cayenne,

Thanks so much for the pictures. I was going out of my mind with all this sensitivity claptrap. Thank gods for India tumescent. And your godssent images saved my mind from thinking. So what if a theatre in my town playing a movie that I wanted to see was bombed ? What problems like these need are more pictures of Hiranandani, taken at night time lest we see some unShining Indians.

Cheers,

A_S

Re: # 36

Dear Aha_Snarl,

Ask the puthars who bombed the theater in Delhi about your misgivings.AAH!!.So, Aha_Snark did check out the links.You PHONY you.I`m sorry , i find this article quite blase`, if you will.I`d look at photos of unShining indians too.Why?.Ain`t i communicating with you?.I am considerate to all.


Kisses,

cayenne

[I think that I can say for all Indians, when I say that Urdu is pretty much exclusive to Muslims in India. No new Non-Muslim speakers of Urdu are added in India since 1947.]#27

...this kind of stupid generalization is heard from harvard graduates only... i recently met a pundit family from lucknow and their urdu put me to shame...it was classical urdu which we from punjab will never be able to master... the sheen, qaaf was perfect and that included their kids too who were under 25...

Delhi Bhai,

DrLokraj has explained the caste point very well in 17, it is an ideal, not the ground reality. KPS Gill broke the back of militancy in Punjab by invoking Jat pride. He frequently referred to struggle against militancy being Jat Sikh bunaam Jat Sikh. The boys from villages of Punjab were given 2000 per month, gun and freedom to `deal` with militants.

My take on language: Urdu and Hindi have the same root. A couple of centuries back, it was called Hindustani. If not for the script difference, most people of India and Pakistan would add both Hindi and Urdu in their CVs. If I learn the Arabo-Persian script, I can kick ass of many-a-pretenders from the other side of the border, in Urdu I mean :-) Infact, one of my buddies has proved this. He writes Urdu poetry and does a great job at it.

bongdongs:

how about those lines in ``monsoon wedding`` where the bengali duo ask their punjabi friend, ``why are you punjabis so ostentatious.`` and the punjabi`s response: ``why are you bengalis so pretentious?``

and there are some punjabis and bengalis who admit to being each of those respectively. :)

#15

``Maybe, Bollywood can redeem itself by making at least one movie showing a Sikh character in positive light, I am not talking religously but socially.``

Man, Delhiwala you are one champion whiner.

Sure Hindi movies are not devoid of its seterotypes, but to allege that hindi movies have gone out of their way to disrespect Sikh`s is way off base. Apart from some of the usual jokes, Sardar`s are usually shown as noble and honest in Bollywood movies (which too is a false seterotype).

How about this, Sikh`s probably consitute the single largest numbers of illegal immigrants from India, thus forcing all other Indian`s to go through great scrutinity on their visas`s. I have never seen the illegal immigrant Sikh setreotype in Indian popular culture.

Punjabi and Sikh culture is the one most celebrated by Bollywood. lets take the song sequence from ``Kal ho na ho`` which pokes fun at Gujju`s (remember G-U-J-J-U?) and then is followed by a rousing Bhangda-Shangda sequence. In fact that that particular movie propagates several negative seterotypes of Gujarati`s while celebrating Punjabi culture, but I dont see Gujarati`s complain, maybe its Gujju`s and not Sikh`s who are large-hearted, c`est na pas?

For that matter why is that no hero in bollywood movies is a Bannerjee or a Das, instead its always an Singh, Arora, Kapoor, Malhotra ...?

Seems like I should be the one doing the whining ...

Ally: Thanks for your clairification, I am glad that you are saying that Punjabi is still surviving.
Urdu being Islamic comment:

I think that I can say for all Indians, when I say that Urdu is pretty much exclusive to Muslims in India. No new Non-Muslim speakers of Urdu are added in India since 1947.

Even though origin was an amalgam of hindi, turki or arabi, it is still considered Muslim language, most probably due to it`s script being Arabic and not Devnagri related.