The Book is also Just a Book

Re: #218 by concerned1


In case anybody is wondering.

Mullah Urstruly could EASILY show concerned1 EXACTLY WHY his post is wrong.

But he is currently very busy with other things.

And even if he was not busy, do you think he would even BOTHER to argue with such childish attempts to prove anything bad about his religion?

Hah! The very thought is laughable.

If his religion was wrong, would there be SO MANY PEOPLE following it?

Hah! Hindu idiots!

And anyway, it’s all true. Because the Prophet said so.

And everybody else is wrong. Because the Prophet said so.

It’s really so very simple. Why don’t the idiots UNDERSTAND?

THIS IS WHY THESE OBSTINATE IDIOT INFIDELS GET THEMSELVES KILLED.

MUSLIMS REALLY WOULD RATHER JUST CONVERT THEM, BUT IF THE INFIDELS DON’t SEE THE OBVIOUS TRUTH (BECAUSE THE PROPHET SAID SO), THEN WHAT CHOICE IS THERE BUT TO KILL THEM?

It’s not as if Muslims ENJOY raping their women that they hold in their right hand. It’s just that they have to. They are only doing their duty. And liberating the women.

Why don’t the idiots UNDERSTAND?

Damn Infidels!

Incapable of seeing the TRUTH!

Dammit!

#214 by A-hole

“yet unable to compete on equal terms with non-Muslims, let alone outstrip, dominate, govern and subdue them, Muslims have been reduced by the Book to the condition of impotent would-be libertines, brimming with desire yet unable to perform.” And more non sense!

There is a reason A-hole is A-hole and there cannot be a better example than post #214.
He most likely goes thru severe muscle ache in his hiney by the time he completes his posts. Every time A-hole writes something with severe muscle ache he comes up with gems that would probably make every idiot on this plant feel good as there is somebody out there in the wilderness who would beat every single one of them in sheer stupidity.

I don’t know who let this A-hole out of the Agra Mental asylum but whosoever did that probably knew that readers at chowk would have some entertainment every so often after reading his posts.

Just to keep it short, A-hole claims that because of the Quran, Muslims are unable to perform. (Obviously, no Muslims would perform when the book is in between the performer and the performee) but for A-hole’s sake we will buy this argument in total.

There are about 1 billion Muslims and per A-hole all of them are unable to perform because of the BOOK(How are they multiplying? A-hole will have answer to that- mind you he is unable to do it himself!) But to be honest, I would say that at least 50 million Muslims in this world are doing pretty well financially or otherwise. I mean A-hole should meet Mullah Fazal that guy is multimillionaire several times over. (Mullah Fazl does not like dark guys so A-hole has no chance of making his living there)
Working with the same equation, about 50 million Muslims out of 1 billion are doing well, there are about 900 million Hindus in this world. Can any body guess how many are doing well? Not more than 25 million. Follow the A-hole logic those 875 million Hindus are not doing well or are doing badly, so, they must be the Quran followers- “Unable to compete, let alone outstrip, dominate, govern and subdue them, Hindus(my replacement) have been reduced by the Book to the condition of impotent would-be libertines, brimming with desire yet unable to perform.”

Can somebody ask this stupid man why 875 million Hindus are performing so badly if they don’t follow the Muslim book?
Let us extend this a little further. There may be about 2.5 billion or more Christians in the world. Can somebody tell me how many are doing well? 200 million, 300 million? Rest of them are failures because of the Bible.
What about Chinese? they are over a billion and 950 million are so poor that they even ask Indians for low level coding Jobs. What book do Chinese read? If you ask A-hole he would tell you...Perhaps the Quran!

How a book determines its followers performance? Dale Carnegie books perhaps!
Kamasutra would be more appropriate! A-hole would know better!
I have no intention to disparage Bible and all its books but Bible has some really interesting stuff in there. All A-hole has to do is read it!

For Arjun
Not even the Low-level coder.

Here is an interesting article which specifically refers to Indians as Low-level coder.
ironically, that could lead to more offshoring. Many low-level programming jobs have already been sent to such countries as India and China.

urstruly #179:

[...Yes, I understand that the Hindus support the torture and humiliation of human beings. I do not exepct anything better from the people who have no respect for equality and respect of fellow human beings and whose religion divide humanity into lesser or better halves...]

but ain`t you glad that at least your religion specifically commands you to `slay them wherever you find them`, of course after the holy months have passed....so just get on with it...

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Re: # 212 sattar

``I condemned ullema’s response to desecration. This does not mean I support desecration. ``

So what does this sentence mean? Does it mean that since you do not support the desecration of Qura`n therefore, you are neutral to the issue or does it mean that you find Americans` desecretaion of Qura`n morally repugnant and below any human ethic or value and therefore you condemn it? So if you condemn it then do you protest its desecration no matter what your faith? See you leave a lot of room for distortion yourself. Why don`t you come straight up and say that you protest the desecration of Qura`n bY Americans and condemn it, and thus you show the mullahs how to register a protest in such matters. Can you do that?

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The very things that Muslims regard as defining their identity and creative of their social and political order – the Quran, the traditions of the Prophet, their religion and the imagined history of their world – are also the primary obstacles to their succeeding or even holding their own in the modern age. Escape from this vicious trap is possible but unavoidably painful.

The Quran is not primarily a book that encourages meditative introspection, quietism, or passive resignation in this world in exchange for salvation in the next. It is unabashedly concerned with the believer’s pursuing (if necessary by violence), seizing, and exercising political power – total dominion over human communities, both believers and non-believers – in the name of the faith. The Arabian skygod who supposedly speaks in first person in the Book promises repeatedly that he will deny the faithful believer nothing; while the non-believer is assured of doom. The Quran and Islam are a book and a religion for winners and would-be winners.

These expectations of victory and earthly sovereignty for Muslims were in fact fulfilled in the Prophet’s own career, and to an unprecedented degree in the explosive expansion of the Arab empire in the century after his death. Muslim empires did in fact dominate the crossroads of the Old World and hold sway over large swathes of territory for many centuries thereafter.

A naïve, or defiantly wrongheaded, Muslim acquainted with the early history of the Islamic world, might understandably – though fallaciously – ascribe its rise to faithful adherence, by the original community of believers, to the dictates of the Book, the tenets of the faith, and to the underlying worldview. From there it is but a small additional misstep to conclude that the stagnation, defeat and current servile condition of the Muslim world are consequences of going astray from the straight path delineated by the Book.

So Muslims are stuck with a Book utterly irrelevant to the modern world; and with a faith that discourages free thought, rejects compartmentalization of human life, and yet insists on its relevance in all times and climes, and to all fields of human activity, from science to politics. In a final cruel twist the Book is claimed to not only be uncreated, divine and eternally existing but also final, complete, perfect. This discourages radical innovations that might lead the faithful out of the morass.

Filled with self-righteousness, triumphalism and a massive sense of entitlement, yet unable to compete on equal terms with non-Muslims, let alone outstrip, dominate, govern and subdue them, Muslims have been reduced by the Book to the condition of impotent would-be libertines, brimming with desire yet unable to perform. A pathetic condition indeed.

dost-mittar:211

India as a country and its leaders have self-respect. They go out of their way to emphasise & instill in the goraa-mind that they are talking to an Indian--a family with old-money (Khandaani among nations) as compared to luchhaa and tuuchhaa bhangees like Brits & Yankees. I admire them for their dress and for their talk on radio & tv in hindi (even if they despise Urdu--fine with me).

This should not be construed as ``buttering`` by anybody. Allah knows, and interactors here perhaps are aware, that it is not in my nature to praise too much, solicit praise, complain to Chowk-staff , whine & request rules change, praise some article to form
``supporters`` for unlicensed-poetry. I am under no illusion that India is our enemy #1 and no amount of our kanjaRR`s retreat , disguised aa victory, is going to change the fact that India wants to be CHOWKIDAR # 1 of Indian Ocean. India too has its share of kanjaRRs & a who are bent upon ruining both Indian & Pakistani society. and paving way for future invaders.
Allah has promised honours & laurels for those who have self-respect & demand self-respect from others. Qur`aan clearly says that honour, respect, is not the ``right`` of muslims. Kafir, atheist, so much so even Mafia-criminals , if they run their organisation with discipline, law & order & JUSTICE for its members will achieve its worldly (secular) objectives. That is the law of nature--operates on ``scientific`` principles & no amount of piety can make one an achiever in the ``secular`` world.

``Adl hai Faatir-e-Hastee kaa azal sey dastoor
Muslim-aaeeN huaa kafir, toa milay hoor O Qasoor``--ALLAMA Iqbal.

meaning: Justice & fairplay is the law of nature/life*: if a kaffir adopts the principles & practises of a muslim then he too would get his reward right in this world(*meaning natural/ material/science laws are indiscriminate of one`s belief-system. )

as sometimes we muslims are fond of saying ( & rightly so) that look a lot of practices & ideas of Quraan & our ancestor muslims have been adopted & co-opted by the western world.


But then look at Pakistan ( and I love Pakistan, in case anyone gets any wrong idea) . The third-rate bhangee leadership falls over each other to convince the goraa-master how much they do not look walk and talk like its own populace anymore. They excel at acting, at aping, as impressionists. Ninety percent energy is dissipated in trying to look-wetsern instead of devoting time & money to real issues. In India at least at state level ALL correspondence office work is done in a non-english languge. Not so in Pakistan, Even to get forms filled & do little work read signs are in ENGLISH! Now the kanjaRRs get hoarse talking about people reading Quraan without knowing arabic, can they answer me why the application form for basic survival are in english language. If China , Iran, Saudi Arabia, ( name one single country in the world) etc etc can be far ahead of Pakistan in literacy --even Bangladesh --without the toataa-mainaa & oscar-performance goraa-goo-chaater performance [such terminolgy is deliberatley used to remove their illusions about being superior to the laborer or farmer of Pakistan: they are NOT; I`m waiting for the day when these McMuslims will be dragged through the streets of Pakistan by the mullah look-alike laborer & farmers).

In one sentence Pakistan`s problem is that people mistakenly think of an english-speaker as a learned person, and they mistake an arabic quoting person as a pious person. Pakistan is being run by these two con-artists.

`` In doa patan kay beech sey, gayaa naa sabat koey``--kabir.

How much upset would you be if India was shown as a dog in a cartoon? Those who are teaching us the art here on this board about the fine & esoteric art of expressing one`s hurt should know very clearly that when even the parameters of expressing emotions start getting established by the masters then the individual is just a robot.

Urstruly,

You are assuming a lot and distorting issues out of context.

Re #184: On desecration …

I condemned ullema’s response to desecration. This does not mean I support desecration. Your accusation is baseless, incorrect, and lame.

Re #185: On divine punishment …

According to Quran, followers of all of Allah’s prophets suffered at the hands of enemies. Struggle and sacrifices of Ahmadis accurately fit this description.

Your own response ... of defiantly asking when divine punishement will befall those persecuting Ahamdis ... is mentioned in Quran as a typical response of rebellious people. Quran accurately describes such behavior ... as you continue to behave in a predictable manner. Does this surprise you at all?

In face of violent persecution, Ahmadis have resorted to patience and prayers to Allah Almighty. This has prevented further, needless violence, allowing Ahmadis to take message of Messiah of Islam to a worldwide audience. And jihadi mullahs continue to fight fruitless wars. Note the difference in results.

And this is exactly what Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) accomplished by migrating to Medina. He also accepted enemies` humiliating terms and conditions, as it allowed him to focus on conveying message of Islam to others. Similarly, the Ahmadis strive not to shed blood or to settle scores … but to spread message of Islam to the world.

Re 185: Messiah to end wars “once and for all” …

You’ve misunderstood the issue and hadith in question. If Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) could not stop violence once and for all, how can Promised Messiah, a following prophet, be expected to accomplish such a task?

Promised Messiah, in the light of Quranic teachings, made it clear that conditions of fighting jihad did not exist during his time. Muslims who accepted him, understood this, and have refrained from absurd jihad ideologies and hatred for others. Those who want to fight wars will continue to do so. They fought against Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), they have fought among each other, and they will contine to fight in the future. Quran lays out conditions and rules for fighting jihad … which suggests that possibility of jihad may very well remain with us till the end of times.

Over 150 million Ahamdi-Muslims worldwide have accepted Messiah`s message. In the post-9/11 era, all ullema are scrambling to come up with a presentable ideology of jihad. They have failed miserably. On the other hand, Ahamdi-Musims have had no need to review their idea of jihad at all. We’ve said all along … that fighting jihad is to be waged only against an invading army of aggressors, for purely defensive purposes, under certain circumstances. At times Quran prefers migration over war. And the greatest of all jihads, is struggle against one’s own self.

Re 189: It is the Muslims who are pissed at Ahmadis … as evidenced by persecution of Ahamdis. Once again you have gotten facts backwards.

echoboom:

This does clarify your position better. I still think that both Jinnah and Nehru were very English in their thinking and attitudes, but they were not what you call ``gora-goo-chaaters``. And that is, indeed, an important distinction.

Shishapa #208:

I agree to your point. But rest assured that Indian ethos wont let that happen. THE MAIN THING IS THERE IS nothing they can quote from GITA or Vedas for their actions. So they simply dont have the divine card to play. So they will never get the critical number to hijack Dharmic philosophies to suit their agenda like it was easy to play the divine card to hijack Christianity and Islam into violence.

#203 vertex

What do u mean, Indian and Chinese army is concurrent with their huge population, area, resource and long coatline. And besides history teaches them to have big army to defend themselves from the barbarians of the west.(To muslims the mongols are the barbarians of the east). So the term barbarian is relative. No need to be offended.

Again, semitic religions are not winning any Useful adherents. Adding numbers means nothing. Islam adds numbers in America among poor blacks. Christianity adds numbers in Africa among people who are not even in the race. BESIDES you forget to reduce the number of muslims who are leaving Islam or Christianity. Europe and parts of USA are essentially NON-christian in evrything except their name. Same is happening to muslims as well. It might be just a trickle now but it will be a torrent before the end of the century.

Islam and Christianity failed in India coz they couldn`t attack the core of Hindu philosophy rationally and beat them. And worse they couldn`t defend their own tribal dogmas rationally. So what if they added up numbers. Adding numbers will help in small resource poor soceities of Europe, Americas and Africa. But in resource rich, big, huge number India and China that is a failed logic. You got to beat the intellectuals which simply never could happen or Will happen. Infact as people evolve and think on their own, outside of their brainwashed from birth dogmas, they become spiritual, start doing Yoga and meditation. Thats the Universal appeal.

Re # 205

Singularity,

``So remove the mullahs and church, there wont be any VHP and bajrang dal. The source for much of regression are Mullahs and Church. ``

I understand what you are saying but I think once they taste the blood, there is no going back. That is why I really hate such organizations and institutions which take law in their own hands to remedy a wrong and would never support them.
That is why I would never support their agends such as Babri Masjid demolition.
There is not end, they will always find a cause.
It is a just a small step towards a lawless society after that. Just look to our west.

Vertex # 202:

Are you saying there is NO REFERENCE TO KAFIR IN Koran or in the muslim minds? Thats the problem with lies. Coz it cant stand scrutiny. And you know it. Thats why muslims react violently instead of responding with rational intellectual debate. Coz Islam cant stand rational scrutiny. So they have no choice but to respond with violence. Problem with violence is it wont work if you are not the dominating force. And another insight those who won by violence also die by violence since the violent DNA becomes part of the culture and pride which cant be removed easily.

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#201 Shishapa:

I deliberately didn`t add the VHP coz VHP was only an answer to the church and the Mullahs due to Indian past wrt to Islam and Christian evangelicals. I even want their presence to beat back the aggressive tendensies of the church mullah and muslim mullah. That way they know the Hindus cant be pushed like they did all over the world from Europe to Americas to Africa to parts of Asia. They tried to Push India too and were successful to a small extent but Indian size, resources and historical continuity was a deadly combo they never encountered anywhere else except maybe China. So contrary to what muslims and christiasn claim, India and Hindus actually gave both of the BIGGEST DEFEAT. And they know it. Thats why they(both christian mullahs and Muslim mullahs) hate the Hindus more than anybody else. If only India/Hindus had been reaten by either Islam or Christianity the rest of the world would have been easy cake walk.

So remove the mullahs and church, there wont be any VHP and bajrang dal. The source for much of regression are Mullahs and Church.