The Book is also Just a Book

Re: # 169
But then they do not have any right to declare from the roof top that they uphold highest of position in human rights, as USA does.

Re: # 168
HP, it was a pleasure to read your reasoned response both to a Hindu and a Muslim. I wish there were a lot more Muslims like you. Dost-Mittar, of course, committed the error of using sarcasm in his initial comments which never come across as intended. When he was forced to defend his statement, instead of taking a positive attitude - as he normally does - he went overboard in making the generalized statement of his Kafirhood.

Maulana urstryly..i`ve got good news and i`ve got bad news...

when they lock you up in camp delta in gitmo, you will have hot female american GIs doing things to you...bad news(for you): they`ll also be doing the flushing thingy...

Female staff at Guantanamao sexually abused Pakistani prisoners:-

Three Pakistani nationals who were picked up by the US forces from Afghanistan in 2002 and sent to Guantanamao jail, have revealed that the US security personnel desecrated the Quran and the female prison staff sexually and physically abused them.

These allegations are contained in the documents obtained by the Daily Times in which the three prisoners confess about the ill-treatment meted to them at Guantanamao to a joint interrogation team (JIT) of Pakistani intelligence agencies - Military Intelligence (MI), Intelligence Bureau (IB), ISI, Special Investigation Group (SIG) and Sindh Police personnel. The JIT interrogated the three prisoners from April 18 to May 10.

In an illegal detention camp, the captors adopt every possible method to crush the sensibilities of the captives.

We don`t need a lesson in what ``descretion`` is.

#165 by dost-mittar, #167 by vertex

“Not by my ``logic`` but by the quranic logic [This is why I am not a great admirer of Islam!]”

I am not going to comment on your funny observations but no conquest is ever politically correct.

What Ghauri and Ghaznvi did was part of the conquests at that time. Even in not too distant past 1521 AD Spanish conquest of Mexico was completed in the name of religion.
This after almost 500 years of Ghauri attacks on India.
Some quotes.
“[After telling the Cholulans that they should abandon their Idols, end human sacrifice, and stop practicing sodomy, all of which offended Christians,”
“He first announced to the chief, that he was the subject of a great monarch who dwelt beyond the waters; that he had come to the Aztec shores, to abolish the inhuman worship which prevailed there, and to introduce the knowledge of the true God.”
“A once great civilization, the Mexican Empire was left in ruins when the Spaniards razed Tenochtitlan to replace it with a Spanish capital, Mexico City. “


There is more to it such as all places of worship were converted to Churches, all idols destroyed and the local population was not allowed to even worship their own customs, religion etc.

The problem is that Hindutva folks -soft or hard- wear victim robe, Indian culture, and Hindu religion on their sleeves 24 hours a day.
What happened in India was nothing sensational or different than what happened all over the world before the Industrial revolution and the French revolution. After those revolutions, recognition of human rights, respect for religions and cultures became the buzz words.

The Bamiyan Buddha and the Babri Masjid incident are separated by two factors. While the Babri demolition was designed to humiliate Muslims in India, the Biyaman destruction was to show that Buddhist civilization, that was already extinct in Afghanistan, was being replaced by the new civilization. Lucky for the humanity, the New Civilization in Afghanistan did not last long.

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Vertex #151
“If there were but one Muslim power, for example, the unity would have been realized into something much more than the vaporous rhetoric we`re seeing by the fustrated majority against a self-serving elite.”

It is hard to comment on some thing that is not there but I believe you are implying a Muslim power as big and as powerful as the US. Any less would be of no consequence, which is the case now!

On one issue unity- I should again repeat that there is no precedence of that happening in the history. The Mullah or the Islamic fundamentalists initiated this war. The US or the West did not. Now the West, based on its superior skills and knowledge, controls the outcome of this war. In fact the outcome is pretty obvious. The US would let it linger until it achieves most of its geo-political objective in the area. The Mullah provided that opportunity to the West and that makes me feel that even if the west sponsored Muslims leaders don’t deliver quickly or at all, there is not going to be any force left in the Muslim countries to make them accountable.
We will talk about the Arab nationalism some other time but the Mullah/Osama destroyed the Arab unity by riding on the backs of dead Palestinians and forced a perfectly legitimate political struggle into a bizarre melee by bringing individual suicide bombers in to the struggle.

dost-mittarji,

LOL, one of the mose barbaric acts in recent times? Yarr...how about a little perspective.

To parrot those who say the Quran is just a book, let`s just say those things were just stone and move on with it...no? Or was the Quran desecration equally barbaric? Or does one need to wait a thousand years before doing said act would be considered as such?

It`s sad, but the Talibs were just excercising the same logic people here are, namely those things were just stone and the money should have bee spent on the poor in the country and never on those idols...that is percicely the reason they blew the things up.

Now I for one think the Talibs went to damn far (and no, dear, it`s not at all equivalent to the Prophet smashing idols taken to be as partners to God in God`s house...but more akin to Christian iconogrpahy and from what I understand, when the Christans came to visit the Prophet at his mosque, he did not order his followers to break their crucifix...too much history?), but then...why are others complainin`?

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kulhari, kaurasach:

kulhari, your wishes will certainly be fulfilled; I am a self-confessed Kafir who is destined to hell even without your recommendation:-).

No, I do not approve of the destruction of Bamiyan Buddha, which was one of the most barbaric acts in recent times. What I am saying is that it was quite in keeping with the fundamental tenets of Islam that guided the Taleban - the way was shown by the Prophet himself.

``Using your ``logic``, ALL the havoc wrecked by invaders since Ghazni, Qasim etc. is ``PROPER`` since it was their fundamental belief. WOW!`` (ks)

Not by my ``logic`` but by the quranic logic [This is why I am not a great admirer of Islam!]

[Sunil Dutt was from my neck of the woods and quite a bit senior to me]

Ref FarzanaVersey #112
- - -
[Harimau (#102):

Hate to keep you waiting. So…

Zakaat is also an excuse for a new wardrobe.
Namaaz is also a fine meditation and exercise regimen.
The ghusal is a good way to clean up untended parts of your body (e.g.behind the ears).
The Haj is also the only time for Muslims of all nationalities to come together dressed up as senators of the old Roman Empire.

You get the drift? Now you may exhale…]

I was expecting full-length articles on Chowk. Obviously, you didn`t get MY drift ;-)

jang,

Ahhh, the might-makes-right school of thought.

Needless to say, the Afghans life has been made miserable in the name of ideology over the past two years, and it isn`t Islamism....

Needless to say, if the Taliban had created a SA like place (which is quite modern), I doubt you would be saying you would like to visit the place because it was ``nice``.

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#135 by vertex

``So what? The Taliban were also laying down fiber optic lines...oooo, ahhhh...is infrastructure all that impresses you? ``

it does impress me. had taliban created a nice place, i would see some of my relatives working there. but no, they gave refuge to osama, who had to go an ``ungali`` in the way of 9/11 and the rest is history. bottomline, if you are weak, dont be a torchbearer. you are then just a hijra clapping hands (just quoting kaura heh heh). talibans would be nowhere without SAMs .. so please be real.

anyhoo.. that was then and this is now..taliban is lost.. now do you not want to have a nice life for afgans or are you ideologically bent to throw misery on them?

Re # 156

I do not think the British had good of India in mind. They did scheme to divide India before leaving and succeeded because there were willing and scheming namoonas in Muslim League leadership such as Allama Iqbal and Mr. Jinnah and blinded masses behind that leadership, but it proved good for current India albeit at a masssssive human cost paid at the partition. The excellent leadership of Mr. Nehru, Sardar Patel, Babasaheb Ambedkar made sure of that.

re: 157

It may be useful to answer that question in light of the fact that this extreme sensitivity has been very much a constant over time.

Re: # 157

.... i don`t mean to answer for fv, but since i have a few minutes to spare :

a) because the flock (aka ummah) is largely illiterate and superstitious
b) because islam is a poorly pirated copy of judaism and christianity and the herders (ulema) are afraid that everyone else will find that out
c) because the rligion itself calls upon the flock and the herders to defend it (with blood if necessary)
d) because the flock consists of primitive folks who like to raise mayhem
e) because most unmarried muslim men are sexually frustrated (segregation of women and all that)
f) because most muslims are insecure and feel inadequate and therefore are easily threatened
g) their faith cannot be defended intellectually, hence they riot in the streets at the drop of a koran
h)..........

........... now i have to get back to this terribly boring meeting ...........

Farzana -

Why do you think Muslims are so sensitive about their religion and its symbols?