The Book is also Just a Book

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singularity,

FYI, dorkus, pakistan WAS in the list.

Anyhoo...kudos to all those schools. See, this is the difference between an arse who likes to bandy about achievements as if he had anything to do with it, and those who admire achievement on its merits alone.

You go Korea (it`s nice to see NICE people come out on top once and a while)...and way ta be India...nice to see Pakistan had entries on the list. Hope they all get better and better.

``And as we all know, all the dead in the wars between Eastern countries put together wouldn`t amount to the number of dead in the Iran-Iraq war alone.``

Iran-Iraq war was a cold proxy war. Wanna count the dead in viet nam and cambodia (another cold proxy war) - much of it was easterner vs easterner btw...or what about the Japanese during WWII? Exception to the rule? Wanna go back to the Mongolians, who had their own ``eastern`` ways...don`t count? Course, North Korea is not threateing to level Japan and South Korea...no, that`s just crazy talk. And of course, China would never actually attack Tiawan...never! And that war between India and China...never happened, right? Mind you, circumstances were different in every case, but body count alone is not sufficent to say easterners are any ``better``, or have no desire to fight or kill.

In many ways the Indo-Sino war is like the Iran-Iraq war. One day Iraq decided to invade Iran, much like how the Chinese decided to invade India. The difference was, the Chinese obtained their objective rather quick...the Iraqis never quite did and that prolonged the war.

But let there be no doubt, if the match was more even that war woud have been down right brutal.

#214 Alephnell:

Excellent post and analysis. No wonder the Jihadi Muslims like HP come out with mouths frothing with rage when their mask is torn down so easily. He , typical like any Mullah muslim takes performance to be sexual and nothing else.

For such Jihadi muslims....

1. Can you name any top Science, Engineering and Tech university from the hardcore Muslim country in the top Tech school list in asia. For reference please check this link.
http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/features/universities2000/scitech/sci.overall.html

2. Can you find any Top corporations from the hardcore muslim arab countries.
Top 2000 Corporations in the world http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2005/0418/200.html

So essentially what it proves is that most of the muslim countries have been getting by based on FREAKISH oil found beneath their foot. They have no Knowledge pool or no other great resources other than OIL. They didn`t even use the OIL wealth usefully in building great Universities or great corporations.

Thats NO-Performance of the NON-Sexual variety. But yeah they been busy making babies :) No dispute there.

dullabhatti,

Not really. Muslims use the Prophet (pbuh) as a prototype to *practice* the faith. Lines may be blurred between the salient aspects of his actions and those which are actually presecribed rituals, but that is accounted for by a spectrum of practice that ranges between conservative (``better safe than sorry``) and liberal (``follow the spirit, not the form``) approaches to the faith.

Consider the conservatives who insist on wearing flood pants and that whole bit...you wont` see them shuning a car for a hoarse, or a cell phone for a human messenger. Yet they will still use a mishwak (twig) for a toothbrush. Confusing to outsiders, perhaps, but those things that are actually practiced usually have some basis in orignal Islamic literature about the Prophet saying somehting good about something, and then conservativism kicks in and ``better be safe and consider it a practice`` attitude kicks in.

The imitation is far from total, and the intent is not to mimic him as a devine man, but to follow him as a conduit to the devine. We`re only human, so we may err here and there...whatever.

Anyway, as I understand it, the term ``Mohammedian`` (or however you spell it) was intended to be an analog to ``Christian``. I don`t know if it was originally meant to be offensive, but that is not how Muslims refer to themselves or view themselves. Perspecitves to the otherwise are usually based on a superficial understanding of Muslim practice.

#237 I had read word Mohammadan used by some Hindu and Sikh religious oriented writers when I was growing up. I did not know what the difference is..I first thought maybe Mohammdan is a sect of Islam or something. Now after reading about ``popular Islam`` that we see and is discussed day in and day out seems everywhere, Mohammad comes out as the sole pillar of Islamic faith. You take away his word and life examples, and there is no Islam left. You follow Mohammad exactly as he lived and you become a great Muslim even without knowing it. It is common in Indian culture to use terms like Nanak-panthis(who following Nanak only and disregard rest), Kabir-panthis(followers of Bhagat kabir), Budhists (who follow Budha), Jainis(who follow Mahavir Jain`s teachings) etc etc. In that context, Muslims are nothing but Mohammdans...the moment they cease to be Mohammdans they become non-Muslims...or even muritds.

godot,

``You and I are on two different planets and the communication is not getting through from the vastness of space! I am talking apples and you are insisting on oranges. ``

LOL, oranges are the topic of discussion, so why talk about apples? That was the point...

``You should also stop “reading” my thoughts because it’s not going to do you (or me) any good.``

Apologies if I hurt your sentiments, just having fun.

---

``Bet your undies weren`t in a knot when Pakiland occupied Afghanistan for a better part of 10 years via the taliban....``

Umm...I go commando. Anyway, if I had em on there would have been a knot or two. In any case, the NA are no different...so it`s a good thing I do go commando otherwise these knots would have been getting quite uncomforatable `bout now.

``You only care when a muslim is ``oppressed`` by a non-muslim...``

You`re clearly not paying attention. Who`s fault is that?

That Muslims opress other Muslims is a great shame, but what is even more shameful are those who would use this as a pretense for even greater brutality. Pathetic are those who then actually support this brutality as ``something better``. Sad, sad world we live in....

#243 by hindvi on May 27, 2005 12:28pm PT
``Ironically the only guy who has his nuts screwed right on this site is HP``

Satisfactorily articulated!

Ironically the only guy who has his nuts screwed right on this site is HP

#238 by vertex on May 27, 2005 7:55am PT


Bzzt...you didn`t get it. The point is, America IS occupying Afghanistan


Bet your undies weren`t in a knot when Pakiland occupied Afghanistan for a better part of 10 years via the taliban....

Admit it...you`re an Islamist...You only care when a muslim is ``oppressed`` by a non-muslim...When a muslim does the same, it`s all fine and dandy and we don`t see your concern the sufferings of your fellow human beings.....

echoboom#237

I knowingly used ``Mohammedan`` because this word was generally used by Jinnah in his speeches.

You are right about Ghalib`s Muslim indentity coming through in his letters, as did his pride in his Turkish ancestry.

This discussion could go on, but I will let you have the last word.

Regards.

Urstruly,

If I had known you are so eager to distort the issue, I’d have been more careful. C’mon dude …. you should know by now that I condemn desecration against any faith … against Islam, against Hinduism, against Judaism …

Before protesting against desecration of Quran, ullema need to stop persecuting others in their own homelands. For them to imprison Ahmadis for praying, for insisting on killing apostates etc … while protesting desecration of Quran is hypocrisy.

Whatever you learnt about Ahmadis from your ullema … that you posted on chowk … has turned out to be false. You continue to be a victim of your own anger and hatred.


Echo,

As I explained earlier (#212), there was no need for jihad against the British. You may be surprised to learn this … but Allam Iqbal also wrote praises in favor of the Queen. Furthermore, it was mullahs who opposed creation of Pakistan … and called it “paleed-istan”.

Ahmadi leaders played a critical role in bringing Jinnah back to India from England to head the movement for creation of Pakistan. And there’s much more. Such facts are omitted from history books for obvious reasons. If losing jobs, being locked up in prison, and losing land interests you … note that Ahmadis have been subjected to all this by fellow Muslims for the crime of practicing Islam.

In Hudabiyyah, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) accpeted terms and conditions from enemies that were considered very humiliating by his own companions. Making peace and compromises is essential at times for greater good. Fighting useless wars hardly serves any purpose. Nay, it is counterproductive and dangerous.

Vertex, #238 –

You and I are on two different planets and the communication is not getting through from the vastness of space! I am talking apples and you are insisting on oranges.

You should also stop “reading” my thoughts because it’s not going to do you (or me) any good.

godot,

Bzzt...you didn`t get it. The point is, America IS occupying Afghanistan (and all I get from your thoughts is that this is justified simply because they are capable of doing so), and so their desecration of the Quran by the very same occupying army has an entirely different meaning than, say, some obscure artist desecrating the icon of Jesus.

Needless to say, the Renaissance never stopped the so-called Enlightened once from being the more brutal side in this ``war``. What does that say about it?

dost-mittar:232
I`ll try to keep it simple

1. Mohahmmedan is a term invented by the British. No muslim uses this term. It may be and has been used as an adjective in Urdu to eloborate or emphasise a point but never as a
substitute for the word muslim.

2. He was not ``adhha-musalmaan``. Even Ghalib was not ``adhha-musalmaan``. That joke you know very well. Ghalib used this to avoid the Gitmos of 1857. He was chrged with sedition & being a sleeper-cell for muslim ( which he WAS, as his letters are a testimony--only those who can `interpret` a lot of the stuff in the letters can `get` it. A lot of stuff was ``perished``/``disappeared`` when the British baboons raided the houses of Zauq, Mufti Sadruddin , & Ghalib.

People who use Ghalib`s & Jinnah`s wine as a certificate & authentication for their debauchery & drunkeness [ rather than as a sins & deviations from islamic injunction] know not a lot of stuff.

Jinnah was only 16 when he arrived in Imperialist England. Even a few decades ago in Canada a lot of muslims had to make special arrangements for halaal meat & non-alcohol /lard based products. In those days, to become a lawyer, after a grade 10 education, all one had to do was write two papers.

Very Very few people can be called fighter-mujahid muslims [among the celebrities, that is] than Quai-de-Azam. He was the marde-momin who was beseeched by no less a made-momin than Allama Iqbal. [Kanjarrs try to seek `legitimacy` for their own haraamkaree & Nashaybaazi by sullying his name as well]

As per Islamic law one is not SUPPOSED to convert ones own offspring to Islam. Who feeds you this garbage. Jinnah`s wife did embrace Islam, on her own accord--not like the KanjaRR`s marriages in India between hindus and muslims for ``technical`` reasons. Yet Jinnah, as per Islamic law , still bequeathed her with her share from inheritence. Contrary to misguided belief, even among muslims, one has NO right to deny the share of inheritence
no matter what the status or belief of the beneficiery. The ``aaQue`` concept is basically a termination of agency-relationship as fat a loans or business is concerned. Under Islamic law there is a very rigid & clear-cut formula for sons, daughters, even parents & grand parents [ an aspect which when adopted by the vulgar-west, would soon become their ``discover`` & touted & gloated by the wretched kanjaRR NGO class--just like the 1986 family law reform act made western-laws more in tune with Muslim laws: only the kanjaRR orifice-spreading NGO`s think it a s a western idea]


Then he was called to either of the two bars. The bastards would not admit him to the bar < which was really a TAVERN, until & unless one drank with the evil-ones. Such was the opression & atrocities unleashed by the Baboons on slaves. You yourself know how one could not enter a restaurant without a necktie. just 20/30years ago. The slaves of these baboons in Pakistan at least conduct interviews in english & converse in english in instituitions which pay well. The whole purpose is to oppress & keep out the shareef mullah-look learned and skilled people. When visitors from the West speak in their mother language & wear their own dress & express horror at liquor , the baboon-slaves get all confused. MashaAllah hijabs & beards are flourishing & blossoming by the day, especially among the western second-generation, and now the tables have turned ``back home``.
KanjaRR behaviour is spat at & is increasingly being contrasted as an heinous secular./commie disease.


Nehru was thoroughly immersed in Gangaa-Jumni culture. He was schooled at home but he was fully immersed in Urdu & farsi , spoken & written. He chose to write in english mostly because of ``politics`` & not to rile the sensibilities of esprcially the ``south``. He firmly stuck to the contituitional tenets. He and Abul Kalaam Azad , in my view represent the best of the
hindus & muslims of India.

you wrote:
``Are your sure that your Hindu genes are not acting up``

You do not know me enough to say that Dost. It is quite a tight-rope walk to stay as anonymous and to reveal ``personal`` info & broadcast it to untrysworthy audience /readership. Please be assured that you might find me a sufficiently desirable blend of a Nehru and a Maulana Abula Kalaam Azaad.

Interesting isn`t it? all the co-ordinates are there.

Nehru: Urdu, Kashmir, english language, desi attire, home-schooled
Abul-Kalaam Azaad: born in Madina, home-schooled, arabic, urdu, farsi, english, not-in-favour-of-Pakistan.

And they both love each other [ in the sense of the superior eastern civilisation & not the upstart ``civilisation`` of the Baboons]