The Book is also Just a Book
Farzana Versey May 23, 2005
#33 Posted by vagabond78 on May 23, 2005 11:45:58 pm
``Why can’t those Arabs learn landscaping, oil drilling?``
``Arey where`s the time Farzana bibi? I have 4 wives to take care of and then I have to read quran 5 times daily. You live in a democratic country so you need not worry being `muslim` but I`ll be damned if anyone finds out that I`m not reading quran. In fact it`s the only book I ever read and have started reading 6 times now - just in case, you know``
``Arey where`s the time Farzana bibi? I have 4 wives to take care of and then I have to read quran 5 times daily. You live in a democratic country so you need not worry being `muslim` but I`ll be damned if anyone finds out that I`m not reading quran. In fact it`s the only book I ever read and have started reading 6 times now - just in case, you know``
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#34 Posted by hamzaad on May 24, 2005 1:58:54 am
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#35 Posted by arstoo on May 24, 2005 2:55:41 am
Dear Chowk Moderator,
Please don`t filter out some of our friends like echoboom, haramzaad, urstruly etc. We should be able to read their point of view how so ever vulgar, violent, vicious it may be.
These true believers may using blind faith combined with vaginal morality as the torch on the path of spirtuality. I am sorry I am trying to read their mind. It is too bad.
Please don`t filter out some of our friends like echoboom, haramzaad, urstruly etc. We should be able to read their point of view how so ever vulgar, violent, vicious it may be.
These true believers may using blind faith combined with vaginal morality as the torch on the path of spirtuality. I am sorry I am trying to read their mind. It is too bad.
#36 Posted by arstoo on May 24, 2005 3:23:51 am
`The Muslim world could with its wealth and heritage easily take on the West in one fell swoop – reject it. Why can’t those Arabs learn landscaping, oil drilling? A friend who teaches at the American University in UAE told me that his task is tough. Most of the men are sons of sheikhs and aware that they will not have to work, so they take absolutely no interest in the classes. Whereas some of the women may wear traditional dress, but are extremely enthusiastic and talented. They could contribute a great deal to society. `
This is sixty four thousand dollor question. What I think is for these people it is easier to live with an idea but difficult to love fellow human being ( whether muslim, christian, jew, hindu or any body).
People are too occupied with their sexual urges. Life of the prophet in a way is guide for them. They learn from it it is all right to marry an old woman or 9 year old child because god understands and is kind. Many a Sheikh who can afford marry 4 wives and then keep on getting rid of older wives and adding new younger wives to their house hold.
Sexuality of the people rises to the summit of their spirtuality. (Nietzsche)
Prophet is`nt very helpfull. How can you find spirtualty in a man who marries a nine year old ? To stop others to pin point these type of flaws Muslim will use violence, intimidation and avoid any type of open discussion or intercourse about this.
This talk about that Quran is word of God, Can any body tell me what in this universe is not manifestation of the word of god. I feel a leaf, a flower or even this message is word of god in a way although an arsehole is typing it.
Moreover the Quran dictates that non belivers ( mean who don`t believe in or know Islamic thoght) are to be treated as badly as possible. Like they are not equal to a Muslim ( to put it mildly) and therefore they are fare game.
Which god will utter these type of words? Where is this vindictive god?
For all the faithful I will give them a couplet of Meer
Deen-o-Iman ki Meer ke kya poocho ho, Unn ne to
Kashka khencha, dair me betha, kab ka tarq Islam kiya
This is sixty four thousand dollor question. What I think is for these people it is easier to live with an idea but difficult to love fellow human being ( whether muslim, christian, jew, hindu or any body).
People are too occupied with their sexual urges. Life of the prophet in a way is guide for them. They learn from it it is all right to marry an old woman or 9 year old child because god understands and is kind. Many a Sheikh who can afford marry 4 wives and then keep on getting rid of older wives and adding new younger wives to their house hold.
Sexuality of the people rises to the summit of their spirtuality. (Nietzsche)
Prophet is`nt very helpfull. How can you find spirtualty in a man who marries a nine year old ? To stop others to pin point these type of flaws Muslim will use violence, intimidation and avoid any type of open discussion or intercourse about this.
This talk about that Quran is word of God, Can any body tell me what in this universe is not manifestation of the word of god. I feel a leaf, a flower or even this message is word of god in a way although an arsehole is typing it.
Moreover the Quran dictates that non belivers ( mean who don`t believe in or know Islamic thoght) are to be treated as badly as possible. Like they are not equal to a Muslim ( to put it mildly) and therefore they are fare game.
Which god will utter these type of words? Where is this vindictive god?
For all the faithful I will give them a couplet of Meer
Deen-o-Iman ki Meer ke kya poocho ho, Unn ne to
Kashka khencha, dair me betha, kab ka tarq Islam kiya
#37 Posted by arjun_m on May 24, 2005 4:40:06 am
#30 by ana on May 23, 2005 9:37pm PT
it might have quite a bit to do with why you`re atheist perhaps in terms of religious hypocrisy though?
Yes...It has everything to do with that...atheists can`t understand why muslims in afghanistan should be killing each other over a book being flushed down the toilet....Does it in anyway diminish the truth they think it represents? If I flush a math book down a toilet, does it mean 2 plus 2 will no longer be 4?
internet + religious people with thin skins = fun for the rest of us...i`m just going to sit on the sidelines(with a ganesha beer and popcorn) and watch as the copycats post even more offensive images....
personally I would never flush any holy book down my toilet...not because I believe in the holiness of the books..i don`t...it`s because I don`t want my toilet getting all choked up and desecrating my home....
it might have quite a bit to do with why you`re atheist perhaps in terms of religious hypocrisy though?
Yes...It has everything to do with that...atheists can`t understand why muslims in afghanistan should be killing each other over a book being flushed down the toilet....Does it in anyway diminish the truth they think it represents? If I flush a math book down a toilet, does it mean 2 plus 2 will no longer be 4?
internet + religious people with thin skins = fun for the rest of us...i`m just going to sit on the sidelines(with a ganesha beer and popcorn) and watch as the copycats post even more offensive images....
personally I would never flush any holy book down my toilet...not because I believe in the holiness of the books..i don`t...it`s because I don`t want my toilet getting all choked up and desecrating my home....
#38 Posted by Aisha_Sarwari on May 24, 2005 5:03:29 am
Islam that was marked by an anti-idoleterous ideology is now just that. I think the Quran was descecrated the day it was preserved in a book, not for study but for protection, not for critique but for the ``feel good factor.``
Great read, as always.
Aisha Sarwari
Great read, as always.
Aisha Sarwari
#39 Posted by Inquirer on May 24, 2005 5:32:20 am
Re: # 25
A very valid point NHK but don`t expect the usual Mullah crowd to address your comment.
A very valid point NHK but don`t expect the usual Mullah crowd to address your comment.
#40 Posted by Inquirer on May 24, 2005 5:34:27 am
Re: # 19
All Muslims should ponder over your comment. Hopefully, this point will be picked up.
All Muslims should ponder over your comment. Hopefully, this point will be picked up.
#41 Posted by Kamath on May 24, 2005 6:25:03 am
Re: # 36 by Arstoo...
Farzana has the right attitude: dismiss this incident as no big deal. I have read Quran and find it a source of many wonderful ideas and Quran does not have any special monopoly on eternal truths.
but it also has so many references that asks its followers to hate non-Muslims and engage in acts of violence. It is confused in its flow of thoughts, sometimes with chopped sentences. ( Boy you find elsewhere in sacred books of other faiths too!).
Why Allah did not dictate this trancendental knowledge in clear language to Muhammad? Or did Muhammad wrote it down very badly? This obviously gives rise to lots of interpretation by its followers or critics.
Quran is simply man-made visionary creation. So treat that way.
Farzana has the right attitude: dismiss this incident as no big deal. I have read Quran and find it a source of many wonderful ideas and Quran does not have any special monopoly on eternal truths.
but it also has so many references that asks its followers to hate non-Muslims and engage in acts of violence. It is confused in its flow of thoughts, sometimes with chopped sentences. ( Boy you find elsewhere in sacred books of other faiths too!).
Why Allah did not dictate this trancendental knowledge in clear language to Muhammad? Or did Muhammad wrote it down very badly? This obviously gives rise to lots of interpretation by its followers or critics.
Quran is simply man-made visionary creation. So treat that way.
#43 Posted by shishapa on May 24, 2005 7:31:26 am
Re # 38
I think it is time for God to send another prophet with another book. He thought he had sent last prophet and perfected message in Quran and done with humankind forever (till Qayamat). Obviously, he (or is it she?) needs to reconsider. May be Qayamat is just around the corner!
If God decides to send a prophet, hope it is a woman this time. I do not think God has ever sent a woman as a prophet so far!
#44 Posted by Naqshbandi on May 24, 2005 7:31:47 am
FV,
Your article didn`t make sense. Using non-entity `secular` Muslim ``scholars`` quotes and the quotes of Pipes (who the hell gives a f.c.u.k. what that idiot has to say? Especially on Islam!!) and a few examples of people swearing on the Qu`ran (who has said this is right in the first place?) etc. and Qadaffi (another heretic!) or the fact that Shias and Sunnis don`t get on sometimes....(a) none of these are desecration (b) they are examples of people being bad Muslims not desecrating the Qu`ran. (c) the Qu`ran is for MUSLIMS the Uncreated actual SPEECH of Allah; it is part of His Attributes. It is Eternal. It is not `just a book`. It is the heart of Islam. So of course anyone flushing it down the toilet is going to offend and hurt anyone with even an iota of imaan in their hearts.
If you don`t feel anything that says more about the state of your own imaan than anything else!
Your article didn`t make sense. Using non-entity `secular` Muslim ``scholars`` quotes and the quotes of Pipes (who the hell gives a f.c.u.k. what that idiot has to say? Especially on Islam!!) and a few examples of people swearing on the Qu`ran (who has said this is right in the first place?) etc. and Qadaffi (another heretic!) or the fact that Shias and Sunnis don`t get on sometimes....(a) none of these are desecration (b) they are examples of people being bad Muslims not desecrating the Qu`ran. (c) the Qu`ran is for MUSLIMS the Uncreated actual SPEECH of Allah; it is part of His Attributes. It is Eternal. It is not `just a book`. It is the heart of Islam. So of course anyone flushing it down the toilet is going to offend and hurt anyone with even an iota of imaan in their hearts.
If you don`t feel anything that says more about the state of your own imaan than anything else!
#45 Posted by vivek on May 24, 2005 7:47:55 am
My interpretation from the article is that FV wants muslims to take decisions not on instinct but based on collective good. A noble aim but difficult to achieve. But the later part of the article gets into unneccesary ant-western bias that FV cannot get rid herself of. Religion plays a very important part in our lives and it is natural for co-believers to share a set of views even on non-religious matters, but for muslims to do collective good, they don`t have to be anti-anybody.
#46 Posted by Inquirer on May 24, 2005 7:51:34 am
I propose that non-Muslims keep out of the fray for a while so that they can learn from the interactions of the moderate Muslims and the Mullah brigade.
There is need for an independent moderate Muslim voice. It needs to be articulated by continued support of the legitimate Muslim needs but exposing the irrationality, injustice and inconsistency Whaabist jihadis. This voice has to be clear and definitive.
There is need for an independent moderate Muslim voice. It needs to be articulated by continued support of the legitimate Muslim needs but exposing the irrationality, injustice and inconsistency Whaabist jihadis. This voice has to be clear and definitive.
#47 Posted by aslam644 on May 24, 2005 8:08:01 am
`` power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely``
This is the position amrica is in today, you can`t really blame them, they have gone from barbarism to decadence without creating a civilisation in between.
This is the position amrica is in today, you can`t really blame them, they have gone from barbarism to decadence without creating a civilisation in between.
#48 Posted by drlokraj on May 24, 2005 8:32:39 am
Re: # 36
arstoo,just correcting Meer`s sheyr
``Meer kay deen-o-mazhab ko ab poochhtay kya ho un nay to
kashka khaincha,dair meiN baitha,kab ka tarq islam kiya
arstoo,just correcting Meer`s sheyr
``Meer kay deen-o-mazhab ko ab poochhtay kya ho un nay to
kashka khaincha,dair meiN baitha,kab ka tarq islam kiya
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