The Ultimate Betrayal

this article is interesting at many levels. Interesting in that it is extremely disturbing. Interesting in that is is describing the power shakeel has over the kid - read that last line.
But it doenot answer any issue associated with child molestation, child pornography, incest or whatsoever.

If this hadnt appeared on Chowk, I woud I would say that this is what paedophiles of this world write and read (even that damned last line, can change its meaning) and we would all be arrested for this.

But, hey, these 78 posts indicated otherwise. It should have been expected that Urstruly would have taken this line, and the others lining up on the other side. Both respectfully circling each other, waiting for the other to slip up.

Re: # 81

miriamk Sahiba,

Today ain`t yer lucky day, either...not as of May 28, 2005 5:51am PT. Oooh.....yer`n early birdie, aincha? Or you couldn`t sleep?

Keep tryin` :-)~~

Re: # 81
Dear Miriamk,
I am sure you must have figured out that the hapless trio ( UrstrulySONOtTruly, EchoDoom and NtFakeSyed) seriously lack the testicular fortitude to discuss issues at hand. They would rather glorify the past and present glories of the version of their Islam. I think it stems from their deep sense of insecurity and an unconscious inferiority complex that instead of thinking for themselves as independent humans, they have to color everything with their ultra-conservative, misinformed, and very very misguided view of Islam.

U know Miriam Aapi,
I have realized that it is absolutely no use discussing issues with the hapless trio because our aims are totally different. You and I would like to discuss issues and create dialogue.
They would rather heckle, poke fun at liberal minded people and reiterate to ad infinitum their morally superior position on every known issue to WO(MANKIND).

Ntsyed Sahib:
#38, #51

I understand completely the question Urstruly Sahib or yourself have posed (please read posts #49 and #76). What I don’t understand is why you (or anyone else) prefer to assert a values framework instead of discussing the issue at hand (i.e. the abuse of a child by her father). Could you and/or anyone else please explain that to me.

Re: # 82
You know Ana, when I was nine I was sexually abused. I did not even know at the time what sex was, or what this man was doing was wrong.
I so totally agree with you.
You know it takes courage to admit in public that you were sexually molested.

God bless your heart.

Re: # 125 think you need basic english language skills. That was not a psychoanalysis of you personality. Thank you for the grand announcement, hope the crabs you got were tasty. (T)

Re: # 124
Congratulations on my psychoanalysis.
Thanks.
Now go Fuck yourself.
You are on ignore!

Re: # 100
so finally your so called liberal ass is itching...maybe you just got a pocketfull of crabs...no go hang yourself from the nearest yardarm.

Look at yourself : you are saying this is a story...go ahead and shout it out...then it is nothing but pornography for the paedophiles. And you are nothing but a pimp encouraging paedophilia.

And for your kind information, people in the US and the UK and many parts of this world have been ARRESTED FOR HAVING SUCH STORIES on THEIR HARDDRIVES. There was abig operation sometime back involving the FBI the Scotland Yard, and is still on going.

And you are not insulting me - you are insulting yourself by your ignorance of this particular fact. So dont get so uppity and shout. Learn to distinguish between a piece of fiction making a statement and a piece of pornography.

So dont become a pimp for paedophiles with your attitude.

Re: # 91
Ok. Are you slow or just plain Stupid. Believe me I am not trying to insult you.
Read my words Carefully,

THIS IS A STORY< A WORK OF FICTION>
IT IS INTENDED TO BRING ATTENTION TO AN ISSUE.
IT IS NEITHER PORNOGRAPHIC, NOR TITTILATING.
IT DOES NOT NEED FACTS AND FIGURES BECAUSE IT IS FICTION.
IT IS A STORY, A WORK OF FICTION.


I HOPE YOU GET IT AND GET OFF THE FRIGGING FACT AND FIGURE BANDWAGON.

IF YOU ARE ITCHING SO MUCH, WHY THE F**k DONT YOU ADD SOME AND ENLIGHTEN ALL OF US.

OR BETTER YET,

WRITE YOUR OWN DAMN STORY AND INCLUDE FACTS AND FIGURES.

ALLAH KI PANAH
TOBA

Re: # 82 from almost the beginning of the interacts here, this story was described as a ``white people`s story.`` from that moment on a judgment was attached to this which is being explained in various ways.


The refuge of the blind, the mute, and the deaf. The image of three monkeys came to mind when I read this in the initial interacts. What is really appalling, and I know this for a fact since I have worked for and amongst these people, is the callous attitude of those around them - both relatives as well as friends. It is very much similar to the stories you women being paraded naked through streets not for doing anything illegal or being morally wrong, and for the legislated gang rape. All this done in front of gaping and gwaking crowds, and there is not one man (or any one even a woman) who dares lift his/her finger to help.

This discussion, wouldnt have gone in the direction of incest, and away from child molestation if the author and editors were a bit more careful, and provided a footnote, an epilogue or a prologue giving some facts and figures. At the very least, since, we are reading all of this using a web browser a damned link from where this could have been obtained, should have been provided.

Anyway all of this way to dipressing to discuss. The only way to tackle it right now it seems to to provide a framewokr of care for the victims.

from almost the beginning of the interacts here, this story was described as a ``white people`s story.`` from that moment on a judgment was attached to this which is being explained in various ways.

as miriam put it so succinctly, there is a power dynamic at work here in this story, and there is a power dynamic involved when a man/woman who is an authority figure in a child`s life is involved in sexual relations with her/him. . . a child ``consenting`` to sex assumes that a child is aware of what the sexual act involves and that is simply NOT the case for most of the children involved. a child is overpowered by confusion and fear, and the words of an elder telling him/her that he/she is loved more than anything on earth, or she is beautiful.

i was six years old when a stranger, a oily-haired man who looked all grown-up to me with a moustache was unzipping my trousers, telling me how nice they looked, and touching me in an area i had little awareness of save that it was ``there``. if my siblings hadn`t rescued me, there is no telling what could have happened. i was very frightened and confused. and this didn`t happen in farangi lands, this happened in lahore, on a college campus. it wasn`t a family member, but had my father, or my elder brother done this i would have been no less confused or frightened. and because of my paralysis from fear, what happened to me was determined as being my fault, as my father`s reaction showed us the next day.
it is all well and good for us to attach incest to religion, or a value system, but really, a value system is NOT the issue here. an issue here is having sex with a child under the guise of love linked to abuse. and what has been disturbing about many of these interacts, is the assumption that a) a child is able to consent. and b) a child is fully aware of what he or she is consenting to. and it doesn`t look like we`re going to talk about that, if we keep harping on religious vs. secular value systems.

Ana:
#82

Thank you for sharing that story. No matter how many times I hear stories like that the feelings elicited are the same; intense anger for the person inflicting the abuse and terrible sadness/helplessness for the child in question.

I hope what you said drives the point home because it is quite evident that what I (and others) have been saying is falling on deaf ears :).

Ntsyed sahib:
#83

That`s right Ntsyed sahib let`s discuss my sleeping and waking habits because I`m almost certain that`s what sajal intended. Nice tangent/diversion by the way! :).

If all of us seem to have missed this esoteric point why don`t you in your infinite and Yoda-ish wisdom enlighten us. Or is it more fun to play games when a serious topic of abuse is being discussed?

You know Ana,
I am a social worker and I work in close proximity with these so called White people.
They are just people, like any other peoples on the earth. They have the same problems, wishes, desires, ambitions like any from the South Asian community.

People like the Hapless Trio always want to create divisions and point fingers and make fun of the ``OTHER``. This ``OTher`` can be western societies or on a more personal level, those South Asians that have been blessed with good education and a liberal all inclusive mind set.

It is funny that Urstruly mentioned that girls get pregnant at the ages of eight and nine regularly in the West. Perhaps the ones he knows. I work with unwed pregnant women and girls, and I have yet to see or hear about a nine year old that ended up pregnant.
Mr. Urstruly`s reality testing is extremely poor.

Ana and Shore Sahib,

Perhaps Chowk and its interactors will one day be worthy enough to hear your ideas and input.

ana, miriam, shore, sammi, amrita, HP, dotty and others:

thoughtful posts...and thoughtful deliberations...up there i see this artilce has been read or clicked 1891 times...please keep up with your thoughtful posts...the majority of readers can easily discern between the posts of the insecuristas and the abdul hates

insecurista
n: singular

a person who displays one or more of the following symptoms:

a person who is insecure about his/her world view, mental outlook, physical self, who froth easily, provoke unnecessarily, have deep seated complexes camouflaged with righteous indignation, think s/he knows the value of everything when in reality s/he knows only the price, henpecked, in lousy relationships with their spouse and children, and a menace and a danger to themselves if left untreated e.g. most abdul-hates