Why Mukhtar Mai Matters

....... exorcising jinns and taming women .........

..........in the sixties, duting ayub khan`s military rule, we had an orderly from chakwal who claimed that his wife was posessed by jinns and had given his brother permission to give her a sound beating if she ever got out of line ........... then she moved into the quarters with with her husband in peshawar, who continued to beat her with a stick whenever she fell on the ground foaming at the mouth and making strange noises until someone told him to make her smell an old shoe and take her to a pir in multan ......... the man was not a feudal, but he was a fauji - temporal 1, romair 0

....... in the seventies, a pathan father and his sons killed their sister and buried her in the middle of the night because, earlier in the day, they had seen her peeking out of the window at the hujra of men ............ the father was a landowner, the brothers included army and police officers - one of whom later rose to the rank of lt general .......... temporal 0.5, romair 0.5


........ in the eighties, a shopkeeper in the dheri hasanabad bazar which is about a mile from the ghq, sliced of his wife`s nose because he thought she had been unfaithful ....... the man was acquitted by the courts ...... he was neither a feudal nor an armyman ...... temporal 0, romair 0

....... in the eighties, a dhobi raped his niece in lahore cantt ...... when the police were called, they proceeded to beat up the fifteen year girl to get the ``truth`` ...... when the girl`s father and mother intervened, they too got a sound thrashing for not being able to ``control`` their bad-challan daughter ........... the man was a dhobi who worked for the army .......... temporal 1, romair 0 ...........

.......... so, based on this small sample i think the army is responsible for at least half the rapes in pakistan - the rest are equally divided among the feudals and dhobis ............

hamidm and everyone else here but romair (a separate reply for you will come shortly)

(sigh)

this is a general follow through for everyone:

removal of occupying army means a level playing field for all the parties in pakistan...

only then the process to stand, stumble, walk run will earnestly begin

this process will be long and drawn out and there are bound to mis-steps...and some innocent blood even may be spilt...but if the playing field is level...then ultimately sense would prevail and some working and acceptable order will emerge

only when the playing field is level will the forces of progress and regress fight it out ... and one or the other emerge victorious (minimum requirement for this level playing field: the army in the barracks, independent judiciary and rule of law)

please note: i am not aligning myself with any one side...all i am painting is a scenario where the feudals, mullahs, big business, small business, regional parties etc. can slug out the political football for the benefit of the citizens...the citizens will make the ultimate choice...you and i will live with it...i know i will...

Beej
#109

Those were the 10 most anticlimactic seconds of my life since Dubya was reelected. Arre jee, hum nay aap ka kiya bigaRa hai? Why must you insist on inflicting this “cruel and unusual punishment” on innocent bystanders? ;)

Khair….some key qualities you delineate there. But the million dollar question is, if someone like that does exist why in God’s name would this “agent for change” want to be part of the unholy mess that is Pakistani politics? Why? Why? Hmmm…? :)

# 111

`` .......... there is something fundamentally wrong with the pakistani society ....... ``


Umbilical cord that ties you with the 7th century social value system of Bedouins.

Cut it like Turkish did it and everything will be fine.

..... what does all this have to do with the price of tea in china ?


........... i still don`t understand why women are relegated to third class status and abused in peshawar, islamabad, the tribal territories, lahore, gujranwala and karachi where there are no feudals for miles around .............. why does unwashed and unemployed abdul, who sits on the wall all day long soaking the sun and watching the trafiic , visually undress and rape any woman passing by ?........... why is it that the first thing you notice when you land in pakistan is the eerie absence of women from the streets ?............. why do women end up eating chicken necks and fish heads ? ............... what does the army or the feudal have to do with the neanderthal mindset of the pakistani male ?

........... i read through some of the posts on this board and i am sorry to say that most of them are sheer rubbish, bumkum, doo doo, drivel and regurgitated nonsense .......... according to our resident mr knowitall, romair, if we maintain a growth rate of 7.237 % rapes will go down by 28.75 % and according to temporal if the people of pakistan are allowed to eat any other brand of cereal other than the crap from the almighty fauji foundation, women will be able to walk down the mall in halter tops without getting molested by bearded demons ............... there might be some merit to the argument that the goons in khaki are leeches and parasites, but it still does not explain the way women are treated all over pakistan ............ and the feudals of southern punjab and sindh might not be the nicest guys in the world but i doubt if they go around raping women as a pastime .................. there is something fundamentally wrong with the pakistani society .........

beejay,

arre, be serious! that was good though. :)

The ultimate solution:

The ultimate solution, the ultimate stabilizing power for Pakistan (at least in the short run) must meet ALL of the following criteria:

(1) Must be human.
(2) Must be alive.
(3) Must be widely popular in Pakistan.
(4) Must have a track record for mobilizing large populations in streets (so the army will never think of taking over again)
(5) Must be liked by the army, the politicians, and the religious forces
(6) Must have enough assets of own (so there won’t ever be a need to rip off the Pakistani treasury)
(7) Must have not a single accusation of corruption against him/her in a single Pakistani court of law
(8) Must have a good, harmonious rapport with minorities and a proven track record of protecting minority lives and rights
(9) Must have a desire to rule and the necessary political experience to stay in power, and
(10) Must be available, and if not, the current employers must be absolutely unhesitant to let him go.

Is there such a person? Is it even possible?

Don’t you worry, my very dear Pakistani brothers and sisters, there IS such a person.

Dear friends, never ever stop from thinking “outside the box”!

And to find out who this agent for change is - this ultimate answer to all of our combined prayers, please click here.!

Thanks.

Romair,

Please for once.
Say that you were talking about Mantolives.

I mean, please! Just once, say that you meant Mantolives, when you were talking about Feudals.

Thanks.

All Interactors:

Here is how I see the discussions developing so far on this board:

All of you agree that:

(1) The Pakistani society is all messed up,
(2) It needs a strong supporting structure to stabilize it while it “heals”, and
(3) At this moment, the three potential supporting structures are (a) the army, (b) the politicians, and (c) the religious forces

There is serious disagreement among y’all on which one it should be.

(1) Romair believes that for now, it should be the army.
(2) Temporal believes that forever, it should be anybody but the army.
(3) (Miriamk agrees with both Romair and Temporal.)

Please continue talking, while I find the ultimate solution – a truly unique one which NOBODY on this board has come up with yet (yes, there is such a solution, just bear with me, please!)

Thanks.

“I don`t agree with this. Even if you type it in bold capitals. And not just in bold small letters.....”

Four expressions and a song come to mind…

Raj hut, Ballak hut, Tirya hut, and the biggest of them all “hut dharam!”

And the song…

Na manoon, Na manoon, Na manoon ray,
Temporal teri batiyan Na manoon ray!

temporal #104: Are you suggesting the maulvis are not an issue, at all? Or the feudals? Suppose an Iranian type revolution occured in Pakistan, overthrowing all the forces - Army, feudals, us upperclass elite on Chowk (which we are regardless of how much we try to deny it). You would be alright with that?

It is actually not that difficult to get rid of Army rule. All people have to do is come out into the streets, in large numbers.........Why do you think the average middle class urbanite in Pakistan is not doing that right now? I think it is because they are fed up with the alternatives of Zardari and Qazi Hussain............And they are happy seeing the economy rise.....

Army, in politics and business, is not the solution. It is, in the long run, part of the problem. But it is only a portion of the problem. There are other portions, also, which you seem unwilling to acknowledge............No Army in the world can throw out any leadership that has middle class popularity and middle class leadership.........

``rebuilding of pakistan imho will only begin when army is removed from the equation and the citizenry including all the other forces mentioned by you, me and others battle it out``

I don`t agree with this. If you ask a maulvi, he will say rebuilding of Pakistan will being, when all non-religious forces are removed. If you ask someone who is secular, they will say it will begin when all maulvis are kicked out. Everyone thinks their group is perfect and others are the problem.......

Rebuilding of Pakistan will begin, when all regressive forces are kicked out. It will not begin by replacing one with the other. And that will only happen, when everyone has some economic assets. And that will happen when the economy grows.........

For a country like Pakistan, the first and foremost priority should be growth of economy and creation of jobs, by anyone - be they a leftist labor leader or a pro-USA army general.

I sense there are a quite a few individuals on this site, who are scared of the status-quo of Pakistan being shaken by a growing economy, and want things as they are and as they were............

Romair:#103:

I think there are three factors that act as a regressive force in Pakistani politics. Not just one. And they act regressively in different areas. They are feudals, maulvis and Army. These are, interestingly, the three most powerful political forces in Pakistan, also.

alright, lets take them one by one in the light of the following queries

(a) feudals, (b) maulvis and (c) the occupying army

1: who holds the ultimate power in today’s Pakistan?
2: whose budget appropriations cannot be collectively or line by line questioned by the highest elected body in the country?
3: who can appoint and dismiss government leaders at will
4: who has the doog-duggi (small drum) and who dances to it?
5: where does the buck finally stops?

:)

my answer is obvious…hint: it is not (a) and (b)

rgds

t

ps: i would welcome other chowkies considered opinion on this subject

pps: rebuilding of pakistan imho will only begin when army is removed from the equation and the citizenry including all the other forces mentioned by you, me and others battle it out...let the child stand, stumble, walk, run through trial and error

temporal #97: ``the cancer that is eating Pakistan is the occupying army...that is the final culprit, god, terminal cancer... not the feudals, bureaucrats, mullahs, bugtis, mengals, chaudhries, pagaros, fahims, altafs...once it ceases to be in the power equation the civilians would learn to stand, stumble, walk and run the mile in under four...``

I don`t agree with this. Even if you type it in bold capitals. And not just in bold small letters.....

I think there are three factors that act as a regressive force in Pakistani politics. Not just one. And they act regressively in different areas. They are feudals, maulvis and Army. These are, interestingly, the three most powerful political forces in Pakistan, also.

However, the catalyst in starting a cycle towards creating and empowering a large urban middle class will be strong economic growth. All of us on Chowk are not affected by this, because we are already rich. But if you look at surveys in Pakistan, you will see that economic growth and jobs are the top priority. Moreso than issues that come up regularly on Chowk, like democracy, elections, secularism, shariah, Kashmir etc.......

I think all our Chowk views represent a tiny insignificant, relatively elitist, minority in Pakistan. In the big scheme of things, we are statistically a completely skewed representation of Pakistan............

Temp
#99

I hear you T. It is a tangled web they weave, etc. etc. :). Sigh...

p.s. check your email

Bina_Shah #57: ``You are completely incorrect about me, Romair, but we`ll leave my background for another day...``

I did not ask you for your background. You are the one who stated I was addressing you. When infact I never mentioned your name. Nor was I addressing you. But, since you are the author, and have yourself brought up the topic, hence I think it is the reader`s perrogative to have information about where the author is coming from.........

So, where exactly are you coming from? Are you from a feudal family, yourself? This is what I assume you implied, when you stated that I was talking about u. It`s a very fair question. Specifically, in relation to this article........

``I`ve given some of your statements to some of my family members to read, and I must say they have had a good laugh out of them. For example, ``Letting them own the land``? That`s a good one.``

What`s so funny about this? Becoming owners of one`s own land is the easiest way to empower someone. I am surprised people would laugh at this. This is the basis of land reforms, i.e. breaking down large landholdings into smaller ones, so that one person cannot influence a whole area.

Either the land should be owned by a larger group of people, individually. Or they govt. should own it. Are you against land reforms, and people owning their own land?

P.S. it is interesting to see people assume certain comments are about them, when, in fact, I have no idea who those people are. Chor kee darhi mein tinka :-)

tehsah #96: ``My point is simply that firstly; the sex in any form is not a crime as such. Qurane hakim says, “Women are your tilth (kheti) which may be used in any manner you like``..........In fact a lot of men and women would like to be raped, more so, if it is administered judicially in the manner done to Mukhtaran..........The real justice aught to be ‘rape for rape’ as demanded by the principle of ‘Qasaas’ and not publicity and money for the rape victim.``

So basically what you are stating is that people like to be raped, on occassion, and that rape for rape is justice.........Not to get personal, but seriously speaking, would you like to get raped, if the opportunity presented itself? And where exactly does it state that rape for rape is a just punishment? Not to mention the fact that it can be administrated by a panchayat? And how in the world would a women rape a man, specifically in Pakistan, to begin with? So your solution would imply that if a man rapes a woman, then, as a punishment that man`s female relative should get raped??

Following is your description in your profile:

``I am a retired public servant passing my free time by reading and writing, both in Urdu and English. I belong to the generation which sang songs of Mother India with Allama Iqbal but also had a passion for Pakistan to the extent of `Janoon`. We saw Qaid-e-Azam and heard his speaches but were also inspired by Gandhi and Nehru for their freedom movement.``

Could I ask you which branch of the civil services you belonged to......And what you like to read?