Fatimah Ihsan June 23, 2005
#10 Posted by BeeJay on June 26, 2005 11:16:19 am
#9 bluegaze
Dear Fatimah,
Thanks for this little but very critical piece of information, which puts the whole poem into a totally new light. I thought that South Asia has no (out of closet) lesbians, but I must be wrong, of course. Perhaps a technicality, but I suppose the term would be a “bi” rather than “straight” for the other woman (and perhaps that’s why you put it within quotes).
I am a little at a disadvantage here (unchartered waters and all that) because the relationship is same-sex, but common sense tells me, and I assume it would be obvious to anyone with a heart that the pain would be very real, no matter what the sexual orientation. A feeling of helplessness would accompany and further complicate the situation. (I hastily withdraw and apologize for using the “gigolo?” term, since it presupposed a heterosexual, consensual relationship between essentially equal individuals.) The way I see it now, at minimum, a lot of compassion would be in order, at least for one of the parties!
Darn! Those chowk editors! Always screwing up with original (and genuine) stuff to conform, conform, and conform! Why do the readers have to be “protected” so?! And protected from what? Isn’t this an adult crowd? No faith in the hardiness of this crowd, I suppose! Or just a case of too much chicken?!!!
#7 Temporal
I think a goat should be presented as a goat, if one is to be honest (to oneself, I mean). I say, let the readers decide for themselves! Presupposing that the readers’ perspective is so screwed up that they will confuse a goat for an elephant shows scant regard for their independent ability to make a judgment! Also, passing it on as a lamb would be patently dishonest! In fact, you have frequently reminded this crowd of the same fact numerous times with respect to the “military-mullah nexus” – that they want to dictate people’s thought processes. In my book, there is no gray area between genuine and fake, just like there is no such thing as “a little bit pregnant”! That’s all!
Dear Fatimah,
Thanks for this little but very critical piece of information, which puts the whole poem into a totally new light. I thought that South Asia has no (out of closet) lesbians, but I must be wrong, of course. Perhaps a technicality, but I suppose the term would be a “bi” rather than “straight” for the other woman (and perhaps that’s why you put it within quotes).
I am a little at a disadvantage here (unchartered waters and all that) because the relationship is same-sex, but common sense tells me, and I assume it would be obvious to anyone with a heart that the pain would be very real, no matter what the sexual orientation. A feeling of helplessness would accompany and further complicate the situation. (I hastily withdraw and apologize for using the “gigolo?” term, since it presupposed a heterosexual, consensual relationship between essentially equal individuals.) The way I see it now, at minimum, a lot of compassion would be in order, at least for one of the parties!
Darn! Those chowk editors! Always screwing up with original (and genuine) stuff to conform, conform, and conform! Why do the readers have to be “protected” so?! And protected from what? Isn’t this an adult crowd? No faith in the hardiness of this crowd, I suppose! Or just a case of too much chicken?!!!
#7 Temporal
I think a goat should be presented as a goat, if one is to be honest (to oneself, I mean). I say, let the readers decide for themselves! Presupposing that the readers’ perspective is so screwed up that they will confuse a goat for an elephant shows scant regard for their independent ability to make a judgment! Also, passing it on as a lamb would be patently dishonest! In fact, you have frequently reminded this crowd of the same fact numerous times with respect to the “military-mullah nexus” – that they want to dictate people’s thought processes. In my book, there is no gray area between genuine and fake, just like there is no such thing as “a little bit pregnant”! That’s all!
#9 Posted by bluegaze on June 26, 2005 7:54:00 am
Dear Beejay,
No that is not what the poem is all about. The original title of the poem was ``anti-depressant for a Butch``. The editors at chowk did not like it and asked for it to be changed. The poem is about a butch lesbian who has the hots for a ``straight`` woman who uses her for her pleasure. The butch lesbian feels some resentment because the woman is straight, but also feels that the pain she feels inside her can be pacified by the woman so she hangs on to her nonetheless.
Let me know if you think differently of the poem. I was also asked by the editors to tone the poem down a little, but i wanted so see what people`s reactions would be to something raw.
fatimah
No that is not what the poem is all about. The original title of the poem was ``anti-depressant for a Butch``. The editors at chowk did not like it and asked for it to be changed. The poem is about a butch lesbian who has the hots for a ``straight`` woman who uses her for her pleasure. The butch lesbian feels some resentment because the woman is straight, but also feels that the pain she feels inside her can be pacified by the woman so she hangs on to her nonetheless.
Let me know if you think differently of the poem. I was also asked by the editors to tone the poem down a little, but i wanted so see what people`s reactions would be to something raw.
fatimah
#8 Posted by BeeJay on June 25, 2005 10:29:05 am
Fatimah,
I don’t mean to sound unduly critical and please don`t take this the wrong way. I read this poem several times and tried very hard and (maybe I just am not a poet because) this is honestly all that I can make out of it – a young man (a gigolo?) obliges an older lady (in high heels) with sex. She appears to have consistent periodic hots for him, but he only feels sad for himself. He then starts feeling something for her. The end.
If there is more to this story, it probably needs to be clarified somehow! I wish you good luck!
I don’t mean to sound unduly critical and please don`t take this the wrong way. I read this poem several times and tried very hard and (maybe I just am not a poet because) this is honestly all that I can make out of it – a young man (a gigolo?) obliges an older lady (in high heels) with sex. She appears to have consistent periodic hots for him, but he only feels sad for himself. He then starts feeling something for her. The end.
If there is more to this story, it probably needs to be clarified somehow! I wish you good luck!
#7 Posted by temporal on June 25, 2005 7:08:52 am
Why are people so averse to jarring and harsh lines, may i ask?
hmmmm...
will venture two replies
1: words are tools in a poet`s hands...with words s/he creates a sculpture...there are two perspectives involved here....the poet`s and the reader`s...if the poet`s goat is seen by the reader as a lamb...it would be one thing...but if the goat is seen as an elephant then there is a serious communication gap somewhere...
the lines could be smooth, mellifluous, rhyming, smooth in blank, free or iambic verse depending on what and how ( the theme, subject, mood) the poet wants to convey...
2: in this specific instance (#5) the ya stood out from the expression in the rest of the poem
hmmmm...
will venture two replies
1: words are tools in a poet`s hands...with words s/he creates a sculpture...there are two perspectives involved here....the poet`s and the reader`s...if the poet`s goat is seen by the reader as a lamb...it would be one thing...but if the goat is seen as an elephant then there is a serious communication gap somewhere...
the lines could be smooth, mellifluous, rhyming, smooth in blank, free or iambic verse depending on what and how ( the theme, subject, mood) the poet wants to convey...
2: in this specific instance (#5) the ya stood out from the expression in the rest of the poem
#6 Posted by bluegaze on June 25, 2005 2:27:32 am
Why are people so averse to jarring and harsh lines, may i ask? though life is benevolent in many ways, it is not always soft and rosy. I chose to look at it from this lens. Comments?
#5 Posted by temporal on June 24, 2005 5:44:36 pm
fatimah:
welcome to chowk!
found this jarring
that demon is rising from my core, do ya hear?
maybe you had a reason?
lve
t
welcome to chowk!
found this jarring
that demon is rising from my core, do ya hear?
maybe you had a reason?
lve
t
#3 Posted by Ameena on June 23, 2005 9:19:35 pm
Fatimah I loved the way the title contrasts with the text or maybe not? :)
#2 Posted by Saminasha on June 23, 2005 2:24:09 pm
erm...please listen to me ``Rid of Me`` by PJ Harvey. You lost me after ``...to fulfill your aging fantasies with my boy-like charms, no?``, a real clunker compared to the dark rock lyrics of this poem.
Send this to Trent Reznor. He might use it. :)
Send this to Trent Reznor. He might use it. :)
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