Last Rites in Kashmir or a New Journey?

Over the last thirty years, has any Indian or Pakistani ever been swayed by the logic presented by the other side? :)

ALL arguments have been infinitely repeated, are understood by every newborn child in both countries, but surprisingly, continue to be made with great passion as if people had just thought them up!

sif

Since we are so sure - where is the need for a referendum? Anycase - you pakis should be last people demanding such things. I mean you guys are ruled by a tinpot dictator - so why should anybody listen to you? To make matters worse - even the tinpot mushy has publicly discarded the idea of referendum.

Like I said - stop shedding crocodile tears. First thing first - get a democracy for yourselves and then we will lprobably isten your sub story about ``referendum for akshmiris``. Until then stop bothering us.

Re: # 315
My pleasure, I am moving on...for no one likes to waste time trying to reason with unreasonables

Mohar, the statistics you are referring to are from the survey conducted by indian press, published at the eve of president Mushraf`s visit...its valadity is questionable...to us for you it may not be. Ok if you indians are so sure, why not to have plebesite under neutral observation? Give it a go every thing will come in black and white, and you should not be afraid as you say Kashmiris have learnt!
Regarding the other two responces, including that of you mohar, I feel sorry, for education, culture and values do not permit me to go this level. Better behave, get real and talk sense.

Re: # 313 On referndology you guys are an expert especially democrats of the military variey. General Z conducted one and so did the present General M. We will need General M`s expertise on conducting a referendum. Your legal luminaries are also experts at framing referendum questions. Only shortfall is on the part of general public who seem to know more of Indian Army`s atrocities in Kashmir on Kashmiris than of their own on themselves. Subversion of constitution and democracy obviously mean nothing to you. By the way why don`t your APHC brothers take part in elections. If taking part in rigged elections is sin than surely you guys should stop participating in rigged referenda (or is it referendums)?
By the way who invented this phrase ``doctrine of necessity``?

Dear Arjun (ref#302)
I am a researcher and a developer, and a frequent traveller to all of the continents. Mostly to the developed part of the world! I never had any problem before and will never! Just for a change, I suggest you to try and seek the truth in all aspects you have mentioned, for sure, whenever you have the time and willingness to do so. Once you have the light of truth, you will be afraid of no darkness at all may it be from the west, east, north or south!
Hope you find the light
Take care

Hi friends remember if today your neighbour forcefully enters your home and drive some of your family members out, you would not like it. Further, if the neighbour start throwing parties in that home, as a very special place, all new neighbourhood would love to go there and enjoy unaware of the fact that the host is not the real owner of the place. The only people who will never become part of the party enjoying group would be the real home owners, both driven out and left in, and their sincere friends, they would be fighting to get back their home and freedom along with honour and respectability.

Few decades later, if the saga continues, some of the weak family members remained inside the home may give up and accept the new owner, nevertheless those with integrity, strength and honour would never give up their struggle will go on and the support of those driven out would always be there.

The new neighbourhood, party visitors and some ignorant peace lovers may also look at the freedom fighters as troublemakers in the neighbourhood; they may not understand why these few people are fighting and turning such a beautiful home into a shamble. The ‘culprit’ who took over your home would always be showing an innocent face to these new neighbours and visitors seeking their blessing and support against the fighters.

This is what is happening in Kashmir. The people who are fighting in Kashmir against Indian army are not terrorist rather freedom fighters only trying to get back their home and their freedom. Past Indian government and United Nations have on record accepted these facts. All the right-minded people in the world should help the Kashmiries. They have suffered a lot; lets put an end to the continuing suffering of these people. 80,000 (Indian news statistics) to over 200,000 (Pakistani news figures) have been killed, many raped (even Indian army court-martialled some of its soldiers for gang rape), abducted and tortured.

Sincerely, if Indians today do announce for accepting the will of Kashmiries and give in, their image will not go down in the eyes of the world rather enhance, for they say “subha ka bhoola agar shaam ko lot aye tu ussay bhoola nahein kehtey…; though in the Kashmir case this shaam has gone a bit too long…almost 58 years.

Re: # 308 Sifjal the only ones who were thrown out of their houses in Kashmir were Kashmiri Pandits. For all I know your freedom fighters are not fighting for them nor are you Pakistanis shedding tears for them.

Re: # 311 southasian

Sifjal, like all pakis when it comes to kashmir, is a jacka$$. The story never changes. It`s the same old BS about muslims - the same old Acquired Victim Syndrome. These guys have been sponsoring a violent jihad for years and now that it failed - they have started breast-beating about ``will of kashmiris``.

Re: # 308 sif
//...Indians today do announce for accepting the will of Kashmiries and give in, their image will not go down in the eyes of the world rather enhance,...//

Thanks for the advice - but Indians will decide about that .... And Indians` decision has been very clear - kashmir stays where it is, with india. If any kashmiri is not happy for whatever reasons, he/she can move over to pakistan - that`s why that country was created for - it was created for disgruntled and delusional muslims.

That has been our position all the time - nothing has changed and nothing will change. How many times do we have to repeat this?? It`s time for all islamic crocodiles like you to stop shedding false tears about kashmiris[or anybody else]. Nobody gives flying f***.

So stop crying and move on with your life. With time and realization - kashmiris will be just fine..... Actually, they are already beginning to be fine. Here are some quotes, from a paki paper:

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_17-6-2005_pg3_2

``54 percent of Kashmiris in Held Kashmir wanted the LoC to become permanent border while 74 percent Indians, too, wanted it. Only 3 percent Kashmiris in Held Kashmir wanted Kashmir to be a part of Pakistan while 43 percent of them thought of Musharraf as their favourite personality.``

Like I said - Kashmiris have already learnt. So just let them be.

#304 by dionysus

[If we`re going to have a friken slanging match, can`t you try to be a bit more creative in your insults instead of repeating the same old crap, you mindless moron?]

Who told you this is a slanging match? With your ranting and raving in impotent rage, you`ve proved that you`re a hijRa, and nothing I call you is going to change that.

#303 by dionysus on June 16, 2005 7:17am PT

``Bite us``

Majority of 1 billion Indians to Pakiland...


Funny how Indians are hateful and celebrate when Kashmiris are killed but Pakis are angels when the completely deny that they train the kashmiri islamic terrorists....

denial is bliss?

#298 by dionysus

its a little hard to understand what you saying, its wrapped in all kinds of insults, references to skinny black asses and such. also, you seem to spell fuck wrong.

in any case, there is a consensus in india that a politically united india is good for its citizenery. our history tell us that when there was political unstability due to weak states in northern india, in medieval and especially post-shahjehan times, the citizens suffered a lot. stable deccani sultanates, for that matter musalman ones at that, were better for its citizenary. you seem to think political instability is droll (and makes you laugh apparently). we differ in our outlook. given the political consensus built in india, and we will defend our worldview with strength, and in time you will see that less bhayyas or madrasis are not that scary...many are working on the kashmir rail projects. they could in time work on amritsar-lahore rail project too, so that we can have a amritsar-nankana shatabdi express. its not very scary, no killing, no ethnic-cleansing.

in return we have a pledge to increse the pentration of panjabi-suit among our women from 60 to 71% by 2010.

#299 by sifzal on June 16, 2005 1:54am PT

That`s right...Indians are hateful and bigoted...

and the people who supported jihad aka islamic terrorism in kashmir, created and wholeheartedly supported the taliban and still think Osama is a hero......they`re just full of love....

The world isn`t buying it...the next time you land at any western airport, they`ll be checking you for rope burn marks..not the hateful bigoted indians....

#299 by sifzal

[I can only say that it hurt to read the response of Harish...bigoted, unreasonable typical indi mentality ensuring no justice or peace to prevail in Pakistani-indian subcontinent.]

Yup. Now that your bleed India policy is biting you in the rear, you play the morality card. Nice try, but no cigar.

[Wake up Harish and get out of this ``we all know...`` stuff. Get real and courageous enough to do research from real historic archives not Indian media fed articles.]

Funny, coming as it does from a Paki. You folks have turned denial into such a fine art, if Goebbels were alive today, he would be ashamed of himself.

[Even your so close friend America does not accept forged papers of Maharaja acceding with India...]

Are you telling us that you`ve been so incompetent that you couldn`t forge similar papers?

BTW, what`s this `India`s close friend America` sh!t? I thought it was Pakiland that was `bestowed` the status of Major Non-NATO Ally.

Re: # 301 harish ``Funny, coming as it does from a Paki. You folks have turned denial into such a fine art, if Goebbels were alive today, he would be ashamed of himself. ``

HAHAHAHAHA...No Paki or Geoebells can match Indian levels of self-delusion:

``I wish to draw your attention to broadcast on Kashmir which l made last evening. have stated our
Government`s policy and made it clear that we have no desire to impose our will on Kashmir but to
leave final decision to people of Kashmir. l further stated that we have agreed on impartial
international agency like United Nation`, supervising any referendum.``

Pandit Nehru PM of India to Liaqat Ali Khan