Advani in Karachi

Re: # 551

``You don`t read the papers, do you? Tiny lil Holland has brought the WHOLE process to a halt. They`ve decided European integration has gone as far as they can handle. And guess what, no angry denounciations, no invasions, no 600 000 raping, murdering torturing troops.

Isn`t it just amazing? Europe has NOTHING to learn from India.``.

--

I`d advise you to think before you write.. This is what I said..

`` India now is what EU wants to be in the future, single defence force, single currency, diverse people with diverse and flourishing languages/cultures/food-habits, free to live/work/die anywhere, united by a democratic framework.. ``

See the ``future`` in bold.. EU is slowly working in that direction and in terms of currency they`re almost there.. You cannot imagine any more wars between European nations.. after the mindless wars they have fought between themselves for thousands of years.. Fortunately for India, It was given on a platter and so far India is doing great. we have democratically solved the language issues and the Punjab issue. The only sticking point is Kashmir and that would be solved in a few years/decades too.. Economic growth is the key and who would not want join an economically/militarily stronger safety net.. I think you`d have noticed how Turkey is begging and bending over backwards to join the EU.. I believe the same will happen. the neighboring countries would want to join the Indian Union.. We`ve already seen the Srilankan president asking for an economic union with the south of India..

Re: # 550 ``India now is what EU wants to be in the future, single defence force, single currency, diverse people with diverse and flourishing languages/cultures/food-habits, free to live/work/die anywhere, united by a democratic framework..``

You don`t read the papers, do you? Tiny lil Holland has brought the WHOLE process to a halt. They`ve decided European integration has gone as far as they can handle. And guess what, no angry denounciations, no invasions, no 600 000 raping, murdering torturing troops.

Isn`t it just amazing? Europe has NOTHING to learn from India.

Re: # 547:

India now is what EU wants to be in the future, single defence force, single currency, diverse people with diverse and flourishing languages/cultures/food-habits, free to live/work/die anywhere, united by a democratic framework..

we should thank the Brits for making this possible.. Though it happened by fluke, we indians have realised it`s better to stick together and succeed together..

Compare and Contrast India and Pakistan about the language issue that cropped up in 1965 in India, and the Bengali issue in Pakistan.. You`d get an idea..

Re: # 547 Crap.. undiluted!

Re: # 542 jang ``shivseana also wants to ethnically clean bhaiyas from bombay, so what? there is a bania paradigm at work which does not involve killings like you panjabi folks did in 1947. you know, thre are more evolved ways of doing things besides the violence. ``

hahaha...what your raping, murdering, torturing, occupying 600 000 troops are doing in Kashmir is REALLY evolved, isn`t it?


You people crack me up! hahahaha

Re: # 543 southasian ``5) Most Pakistanis would love to see India split into pieces. Like rest of the world its difficult for them to digest that people with as divergent as Indians can live together with reasonable degree of harmony. ``

Have wasted enough time in this stupid place as it is, but just can`t let this pass. Contrary to your claims we all know how the Indian Union has been kept together. Firstly, viscious anti-Islamic and anti-Pakistani Hindu chauvinism, and where that fails or where it is inapplicable such as in East Punjab or Kashmir, savage violence.

This is the thing with all this peace crap. Indians don`t seem realize that if they make peace with Pakistan they lose the only thing that has kept them united.

Re: # 544 Hindu and Islam are religions not civilizations for me. The name of civilization I belong to is Indian Civilization, I also call it my nation. Religion should not be a matter of state, it should be in personal domain of an individualand polity should be secular. Partition WAS a mistake but now it is more or less irreversible. Perhaps better relations... based on mutual respect is the future.

``I think people need to decide whether they want to use religion as a primary basis of civilization or not. I don`t think it should be. Though I am having a tough time convincing many of our Indian colleagues on that....``

heh heh..i noticed...not many takers.

SouthAsian #543: Actually the gist of the discussion is that Hinduism is not a civilization and cannot be used to define a common civilizational history. That is where the whole discussion started from. There were individuals trying to highlight that all of the Sub-Continent is one historical civilization, because at one time, everyone there was Hindu.......This is actually in-line with the BJP philosophy, on their website..........

Based ont the abvoe, it then led to a discussion that every conquerer of the Sub-Continent who was a Muslim was an invader. While every conquerer who was a Hindu (or Bhuddhist) was simply fighting a civil war...........i.e. if a Hindu started from Bihar and conquered Taxila, he was uniting the country. However, if a Muslim someone started from Samarkand and conquered Taxila, he was invading it..........

Pakistan and India, of today, never quite got into it...........The discussion was more between Bihar, Tamils, Punjabis, Pathans, as members of civilizations............

I think people need to decide whether they want to use religion as a primary basis of civilization or not. I don`t think it should be. Though I am having a tough time convincing many of our Indian colleagues on that.............

So we can sum up something like this:
1) As opposed to India, in Pakistan regional and racial identities are very important even more than the larger national one. A smaller size only accentuates the differences. We should try understand and deal with Punjabis, Sindhis, Pathans, Muhajirs and Balochs differently. I know now someone will now come and post ``we are one`` in upper case.
2) Apparently Indians love whereas Pakistanis love to hate.
3) When we visit Lahore, Pakistanis are nice. Its hospitality not love.
4) For Punjabis of Pakistan variety a reunion with India means loss of their domination which they enjoy over rest of ``nationalities``. Their sense of identity is fragile.
5) Most Pakistanis would love to see India split into pieces. Like rest of the world its difficult for them to digest that people with as divergent as Indians can live together with reasonable degree of harmony.
6) A secular, liberal and united Pakistan at peace with neighbours is in everybody`s interest.
7) PS: Should we strike a deal with Musharraf? Who can speak for Pakistanis? The APHC?
8) Why Deobandis wanted a united India? Please, someone shed light on this one.

dyno,
dont worry, the scenario i suggested is not going to happen soon, it will be gradual in typical bania fashion, not a martial commando op .. you will have time to adapt, you have to learn to think differently.

``You think the Sikhs are just going to stand by and watch foreigners turn them into a minority in their own land?``

are pae, sikhs are living as a minority all over india, whole india is their land, from Patna to Nanded...for a long time too. they are slurping sambhar by the buckets.

shivseana also wants to ethnically clean bhaiyas from bombay, so what? there is a bania paradigm at work which does not involve killings like you panjabi folks did in 1947. you know, thre are more evolved ways of doing things besides the violence.

i heard banias are already buying land in lahore? and no, we dont want a political union, what for? you are absolutely welcome to the green passport and flag, and political system..just watch out for the rupee..unless you make it a yuan.

#540 by dionysus on June 14, 2005 9:11am PT


as if Pakistan is about to become a part of India (Which is what you fuckers really dream about, isn`t it? )


Yes..Indians desperately want to be subject to extra scrutiny when they go to western airports..Indians are just dying to be on the list of nations whose nationals have to register with the US government..Indias are just dreaming of the day when their country will stop being known for the IITs and be known for the madrassahs that produced the taliban...Indians really want 150million people, 65% of whom think Osama Bin Laden is a hero, to be part of their country...

Yup...that`s the secret bania plan...you nailed it...

Re: # 539 jang

``Good for you, you have found your identity.``

Unfortunately for you and your fantasies for all of the whole subcontinent as a Hindustani colony, I am not the only one.


``As Indo-Pak pyar developes,``

I am sitting in Pakistan right now and I really don`t see much Indo-Pak pyar here. Pakistani opinions of India have not changed one bit in the last year or so. All I see is an illegal martial law dictator clearing the ground for another rigged election by pleasing his American Masters. That`s all this ``peace process`` is about. Yet again we see a single man taking control of the entire of country and running it like a personal fiefdom, regardless of what the interets of tens of millions of Pakistanis are. I fully sympathize with those who call Pakistan a ``failed state``.


``you will see good martial panjabis of Lhor hanging out in MTR canteen, bangalore slurping Dosa Sambhar on their training, beharis and bhayyas will be overtaking the kheti under sikh management of farms, and you will be paying (no more pirated VCDs) so see bollywood, and god-forbid, even Tamil maniratnam mivies. Interestingly (and hope not too sadly for you), no one will notice the differene between a bhayya and any other farm-worker, and most will be happy with these turn of events. ``

These are just your fantasies. Nothing more. Two years ago we were on the verge of a nuclear war and now you are talking as if Pakistan is about to become a part of India (Which is what you fuckers really dream about, isn`t it? ) . You think the Sikhs are just going to stand by and watch foreigners turn them into a minority in their own land? If the Pakistan and Islamic bogey is removed what else will unite the nations of India? How do you know they won`t turn on each other? You don`t know shit about how things are going to turn out. So stop dreaming about turning us all into Madrasis.


``Interestingly (and hope not too sadly for you), no one will notice the differene between a bhayya and any other farm-worker, and most will be happy with these turn of events. ``

I have heard Sikhs in Lahore talk about ethnically cleansing Bhayyas from their Punjab. I have heard North Indians in England call Tamils ``filthy South Indian blackies``. So don`t start counting your chickens before they hatch, buddy.


``even Tamil maniratnam mivies``

Pathans and Punjabis are going to watch Tamil Movies?? You people are so deluded it just isn`t funny. LMAO!

#536 by dionysus

dear dino,

Good for you, you have found your identity. If you are young enough, hold-on tight for a rough ride. As Indo-Pak pyar developes, you will see good martial panjabis of Lhor hanging out in MTR canteen, bangalore slurping Dosa Sambhar on their training, beharis and bhayyas will be overtaking the kheti under sikh management of farms, and you will be paying (no more pirated VCDs) so see bollywood, and god-forbid, even Tamil maniratnam mivies. Interestingly (and hope not too sadly for you), no one will notice the differene between a bhayya and any other farm-worker, and most will be happy with these turn of events.

you can offcourse join Dalers new dance troupe...he will continue to rule.

Re: # 537 ``One would think so, given that El Presidente is down on a knee, begging India for a face-saver.``

Heh? you do know that when one person sees things that no one else does it`s called a ``delusion`` or even worse ``madness`.

El Presidente is clearing the ground for the next rigged election to keep him in power for another 5 years. Nothing more. Let`s see if that bullet with his name on it can find its way home before he can do any more damage to Pakistan.

#534 by dionysus

[So redemption for Pakistan comes from India? Who do you think you are, Jesus Friken Christ??]

One would think so, given that El Presidente is down on a knee, begging India for a face-saver.