Advani in Karachi

More than Gandhi , its the worshippers of Gandhi that Indians dread and treat with vehemence. Had the Gandhians been in charge of India any longer , India would be on the brink of sub-saharan poverty. Infact `India` wouldn`t exist today as Gandhians are anarchists and do not believe in the concept of a `Nation-State`.

Advani is a normal democratic politician – not a member of that rare breed with scruples. He will say whatever he thinks the situation demands of him.

I pity those nincompoops who take his comments on Jinnah at face value. Pakistanis were his bakras in May 1998 and some still are today.

Re: # 34

As usual Alephnull`s chaddis are on fire and his comments are as usual way off mark. Well clearly only Indians have taken his statements seriously... since they have them on the front page of every major newspaper in India...

Which Pakistani Newspaper has it on the front page? Dawn, Jinnah`s own newspaper, didn`t even report it. Look ... we don`t need your patronisation in any way.

Right Manto! A-hole`s chadd i is on fire and I will put so many flames in by the time this thread is over that his nuts would fall off.

#35 ,

Advani`s statements on Jinnah have made headlines because they raise questions on the old man`s senility , and have a significant bearing on the power struggle within the BJP between Advani and Modi , effectively putting a fullstop on the old man`s slagging career.

Remember the democratic primaries when Howard Dean was seen to be the front runner for the candidacy until he had the `Dean Moment` ( YEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHH!!) , after which he simply imploded ? That got a lot of publicity.

Well...Advani has just had his `Dean Moment`...

“The leader`s assertion comes two days after his declaration in Islamabad that the demolition of the Babri Masjid was the ``saddest day`` of his life and that his image and persona were not the same.”

Now isn’t this guy who actually led the charge?

But why is he saying what he is saying?

The reason is here!
The fear that RSS would be officially declared a terrorist organization that it is.

“the US think tank on this issue, has used but it has gone on to label RSS, the patriarch of Hindutva organizations, BJP, VHP, Bajarang dal etc., as a terrorist outfit. RSS shares this category with other organizations defamed in different parts of the World as terrorists like Al Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Tayyaba, Hamas etc. Sangh`s (RSS progeny) own definition and understanding of terrorists has been summed up by RSS pracharak
(propagator) and current Gujarat Chief Minister, Narendra Modi in the sentence, ``All Muslims are not terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims!`` How come a Muslim baiter organization itself has been so labeled!”

Advani is a parchark since the days he lived in Sindh. The poor guy is putting out his neck out to save the RSS. He needs to show that he and the organization he represents, the RSS are both secular and non terrorist.

The other part is the Indian Muslim votes. No party in the current India can win elections with out the Muslim vote and he knows that.


More on this as I find time...

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HP...there are a million `think tanks` in the US . Some influential , most not . Can you even name the `think tank` that considers RSS to be a terrorist outfit ? Even you can start your own `think tank` sitting in your trailer trash...

This is a simple and straightforward presentation of the account of Advani’s visit, sans comments based on political leanings! That’s always a refreshing change.

I honestly believe that there ought to be a term limit of some sort on all these OLD political leaders (both within the executive structure as well as within political parties). They get entrenched within political bases and stifle new leadership from coming up. More importantly, they stifle all new and creative ideas!

Notes:

[Pakistan is not pressing forward with the FIR lodged at Karachi`s Jamshed Quarters police station, on September 10, 1947, against Advani, ….]
Isn’t there a statute of limitation on these things? If not, there ought to be!

#12 by nazarhayatkhan

[I like Advani. Advani comes out as a sound politician. Every word is well calculated. Not a single superflouos word. But he can still convey his mind.]
Khan saheb, we are not discussing a literary event here!

[He is also in a great health for his 78 years. Loud and clear voice. A very alert mind. And probably original teeth.]
Nor a medical one, either!

#13 by avenger123
[Hindu voters need to be consolidated - regardless of caste differences. This can be done by raising the muslim bogey....demonising muslims instead of wooing them.]
How about consolidating INDIAN votes? Won’t that be larger base and make the country stronger.

anyone who talks about demonizing INDIAN voters, no matter what their caste or creed is, is not speaking in india`s best interests.

raising the muslim bogey and demonizing them sounds more like a chapter from goebbels, or propagandists of late such as those in pre-genocide rwanda and i hate making such comparisons but it`s the truth. if every hindu sounded like the poster who`s made this statement, then more`s the pity for an ``advancing`` india.

thankfully there are more aware indians of all creeds both in india and the diaspora.

Ana , the state where the `muslim bogey` was raised , all hindus of all castes got united and beat the crap out of the Mian Musharafs , is also the one with the best roads , best administration , higest economic and industrial growth rate , lowest poverty levels. I am talking about Gujarat. Gujarat has more in common with Shanghai as far as economic performace and standards of living are concerned than with any part of India. If rasing the `muslim bogey` gets me a administration that stands for hardcore capitalism and economic liberalisation , I am all for it.

Ideally , one would like a `Secular-Right` administration. An administration that promotes capitalism and secularism. But realities are that in India today the political parties ones that stand for secularism also stand for self-defeating retrogressive socialism and worse.

Basically , its nothing personal. Whatever one needs to win , one must do. If demonising muslims can get one into power , one should go ahead and do it with all due enthusiasm.

(But care should be taken to let the Christian Missionaries have their fun...any serious opposition to the BJP/RSS from the Big Daddy US of A is because of the RSS/BJP`s antipathy to missionary activity , not because of anti-muslim pogroms. Basically as long as one keeps the Church and thereby the red state senators happy , one can go on killing and raping as many muslims as one wants to...and the US will be fine and dandy about it...)

#42 Ana

Don’t get me wrong! Relax, I agree with you.

I was only asking Avenger123 to reverse his approach! Consolidate people (bring them together) instead of dividing them along groups, etc.! (To me INDIAN means Indians of all hues, religions, languages, sexes, etc.) That’s all! However, I do understand your sensitivity on this issue! (No quarrel from me on THAT.)

HP...

Indeed if what Alephnull says is true then Advani is an extremely stupid politician... because not only has he failed to make an impression on us Pakistanis (as pointed out earlier Jinnah`s own Dawn didn`t even carry the news and Daily Times put a mere blurb) but he has managed to isolate the Indian voter (who according to Avenger is anti-Muslim, bigoted and fanatical) who are up in arms because every Indian newspaper has carried the story and Sangh Parivar`s reaction on frontpage. So much for him being a normal ``democratic`` politician.


I am going to reserve my further comments on the cause of the fire in Mr Null`s chaddiz.

beejay,

i didn`t get you wrong at all. . . which is why i said what i did. i agreed with you. but avenger has given his justifications for not reversing his approach, and as retrograde as i find them, i will let someone else tackle those justifications. a linguistics final tomorrow calls me away from this discussion. :)

but before i leave. . .

i can see that this board is going to turn into a field for setting each and everyone`s chaDDies on fire, and if that is the case, then i see no reason particularly to have a ``reasonable`` discussion here, where we can discuss issues rather than light fires up people`s asses.

obviously and for good reason (for many) the names of gandhi, jinnah, and the names of vajpayee, modi, advani cause many to lose their reason. and intelligent men (i don`t see too many women here) already have.

so i withdraw. . . to more reasonable discussions. as it is not possible to reason with those who don`t wish to see it. i think one could have talked about this article, without all the demonizations and the insults.

echoboom #39

That is quite a digression from Advani’s visit to Pakistan. Nevertheless …

I figured out ages ago that the system in Pakistan is a long-running scam by a kleptocratic elite to fleece the awam – to corner the productive resources of a country plus any foreign assistance it might get, for exploitation by a small minority with a massive sense of entitlement – whatever the official form the government takes, whether overt dictatorship or military-dominated ‘democracy.’

This scam needs props, both internal and external, to keep it going. Internally, ‘Islam khatre mein hain’, hatred and fear of India, Kashmir issue, are some of the devices used to keep the awam in line. Meanwhile, on the external front, the prospect (specifically engineered by the regime) of takeover by hardcore Islamists – people you sympathize with - is used to extort money from the United States and western support for the ‘enlightened secular moderate’ regime of the day. The Americans of course don’t care who rules in Islamabad or what happens to Pakistanis as long as the rulers do the US’s bidding and there’s no blowback that hits the US homeland or global US interests.

I do not think the maulanas, as a class, are clean either. If the reported exploits of Dieselur Rahman and Sandwich-ul-Haq are any indication, they too have their price - they make sure that they get their cut. Like the rest, they probably prefer the pleasures of this world to the promised delights of the next. The US would happily cut deals with them if it became necessary.

You are perhaps too hung up on issues of izzat, ghairat, etc. ‘Honour’ is often a pretty tangled notion. A foolish obsession with ‘honour and dignity’ could lend itself to exploitation. I might as well tell you that the superficial preoccupation of Pakistan’s rulers and chatterati with ‘H & D’ is a running joke among Indians. Your real problem isn’t that Pakistan’s rulers will pawn themselves or their grandmothers, but that they’ll sell off the future prospects of the entire population of Pakistan to keep their tottering system going. They really don’t seem to care one bit what happens to the awam. They make even India’s scoundrels of politicans look good by comparison.