Advani in Karachi

ADVANI WILL HAVE A LOT TO ANSWER THE B.J.P. CADRE AND THE SANGH PARIVAR. ALL WILL BE DECIDED AT THE MUMBAI CAMP (NATIONAL STUDY CAMP), WHICH BEGINS ON JUNE 10. THE B.J.P., RIGHT NOW, IS KEEPING QUIET, BOUND BY PROTOCOL, BUT ARE LIKELY TO RESPOND IN A FEW DAYS.
STILL, WHY DID ADVANI MAKE THIS STATEMENT, RIGHT NOW? IS THE B.J.P. RE-THINKING ITS `AKHAND-BHARAT` THEORY? CURIOUS..........
LETS WAIT AND WATCH...............

are there powerplays going on in the BJP as to who would become the future leader of BJP? Is there a conflict between Modi and Advani?

It is such irony when you think this man was screaming death to muslims only a few yrs agao, but i welcome the change of preceptions and the coming of common sense on both sides.

Re: # 4, and did you ask him how much a new birth certificate for the Parvez Musharaf stating a DOB of, say, 1957, would cost?

The shae of things in context with Pakistani politics would be so interesting then!!

Bina,

Yesterday I met Mani Shankar Aiyar in Lahore and interviewed him... and ofcourse one of the questions I asked him was about Jinnah...

He made two points... 1) That ``Quaid-e-Azam`s`` earlier role as best ambassador of Hindu Muslim unity was a major fact of Indian history 2) Quaid-e-Azam`s espousal of the two nation theory was also a major fact of Indian history.

He said that he didnt agree with the latter position of the Quaid-e-Azam for obvious reasons but what I surprised was that while I specifically said ``Jinnah``, he always referred to him as the Quaid-e-Azam.

Ofcourse this has a very significant psychological impact... Pakistanis have been calling Gandhi ``Mahatma Gandhi`` for a very long time (whether I like it or not)... its good that there was reciprocation.. as these things will go a long way in burying the hatchet between Pakistan and India...

-YLH

Indian politicians have started a new and interesting duel on Jinnah it seems...

SanghParivar vs Lalu and the Gang...


Deccan Herald » News Update » Detailed Story



Advani a traitor says Togadia

Vadodra, PTI

Terming BJP President L K Advani as a ``traitor`` for ``glorifying`` Pakistan`s founder leader Mohammed Ali Jinnah, the international general secreatry of VHP, Pravin Togadia today asked the BJP leader to resign his Lok Sabha seat from Gandhinagar.



Terming BJP President L K Advani as a ``traitor`` for ``glorifying`` Pakistan`s founder leader Mohammed Ali Jinnah, the international general secreatry of VHP, Pravin Togadia today asked the BJP leader to resign his Lok Sabha seat from Gandhinagar.

Togadia, who was in Padra town for a Durgavahini function, said Jinnah had demanded creation of Pakistan on the basis of religion and his Muslim League party had adopted a resolution to this effect in Lahore in 1940. Jinnah had presided over the meeting, he added.

``How can Advani describe Jinnah as an Amassador of Hindu-Muslim unity`` he said and questioned Advani`s visit to the Pakistani leader`s Mausoleum.


One million Hindus were killed in Pakistan in 1946 during partition, Togadia said.

``Jinnah was a traitor, is a traitor and will remain a traitor and person glorifying him is also a traitor``, said Togadia, demanding that Advani also resign as Leader of Opposition from Lok Sabha.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1132820.cms
Sangh sore over Advani’s remark on Jinnah

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ SUNDAY, JUNE 05, 2005 02:57:07 AM]
Surf `N` Earn -Sign innow
NEW DELHI: The contradictions within the Sangh parivar were on full display on Saturday when the RSS-VHP combine reacted sharply to BJP president L K Advani’s description of late Mohammed Ali Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan, as a “secular” person, who was also “a symbol of Hindu-Muslim unity.”

Advani, who’s currently on a visit to Pakistan, today visited Jinnah’s mausoleum in Karachi. In what is seen by most Sangh parivar leaders as a desperate bid to get rid of his past, which has often come in his way to find broader acceptance within the country, the BJP president paid homage to Jinnah.

For the RSS and its affiliates, Jinnah is held as the person who sowed the seeds of Muslim fundamentalism and who ultimately forced the partition of the country on religious lines. Advani’s “somersault” on Jinnah, therefore, took everyone aback.

“All these years, we had been taught that Jinnah was responsible for the partition of India on religious lines. The Lahore resolution, passed by the Muslim League in 1940, explicitly stated that Hindus and Muslims cannot stay together,” RSS spokesman Ram Madhav said here this evening.

“Our cadres are not happy with Advani’s statement, as has been reported in the media. To some extent, they’re angry also,” Ram Madhav said, adding, “We’re obviously not in agreement with Advani.” The VHP leaders were, however, not so restrained. “Mr Advani should apologise for his remarks,” asserted VHP general secretary Praveen Togadia. For the VHP leadership, Advani’s latest observations have come as yet another proof of his “betrayal” of the Hindu cause.

The RSS is likely to seek an explanation from Advani on his return to the country. It is clear, however, that relations between Advani and rest of the Sangh parivar may not remain the same again.

Meanwhile in Karachi, the BJP chief said Jinnah’s August 11, 1947 address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan was really “a classic, a forceful espousal of a secular state in which while every citizen would be free to pursue his own religions, the state should make no distinction between one citizen and another on grounds of faith. My respectful homage to this great man”.

Earlier Advani commented the division of India and Pakistan an “unalterable reality of history.”

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=302529

Lalu hails Advani`s `change of heart` on Jinnah and Pakistan
PATNA, JUNE 5 (PTI)
Railway minister Lalu Prasad today welcomed BJP President L K Advani`s utterances at the mausoleum of Pakistan`s founder Mohammed Ali Jinnah stating even if belated, his (Advani) words were from the core of his heart and criticised the VHP, RSS for their adverse response to Advani`s comment.

``Advani`s praise of Jinnah is his natural reaction towards Pakistan`s founder. All his earlier utterances against Pakistan seemed to be artificial,`` Prasad said at a RJD function here.

Taking a potshot at hardliner Hindu organisations like VHP and RSS for protesting Advani`s statement on Jinnah, the RJD supremo said ``they (the VHP and RSS) seem to have forgotten that Advani is a Pakistani by birth and how can he speak lies at his birthplace.`` He said Advani, who is an accused in the murder of Jinnah, seems to have realised his `mistakes` and now is speaking factually correct things.

``I welcome Advani`s statement on Jinnah though belated,`` he said and advised Advani to stand firm on his statement and not take a u-turn in view of protest from the saffron brigade.

Prasad said he and his party had from the very beginning been championing the cause of better relationship between India and Pakistan, but the `communal forces led by BJP` had always tried to create roadblocks by sometimes queering the pitch to prevent Pakistani players from playing in India.

Prasad was addressing a party function to mark the `Sampoorna Kranti divas`, the day on which Loknayak Jayprakash Narayan had in 1974 given a call for total revolution at historic Gandhi Maidan here.

Advani had only quoted Jinnah, say aides
K G SURESH KARACHI, JUN 5 (PTI)
With his remarks praising Pakistan founder Mohammad Ali Jinnah causing a flutter within the Sangh Parivar, BJP President L K Advani`s aides today sought to play down the controversy by releasing copies of the Qaid-E-Azam`s speech in which he had favoured creation of a secular state.

``You are free, you are free to go to your temples. You are free to go to your mosques or any other places of worship in this state of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion, caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the state,`` Jinnah had said in his address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan on August 11, 1947, according to an excerpt from the book `Towards Jinnah`s Pakistan.` The excerpts of the speech were made available to the accompanying journalists by Advani`s media managers.

``In course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense because that is the personal faith of each individual but in the political sense as citizens of the State,`` Jinnah is quoted as saying in the historic address.

In his remarks in the visitors` book at Jinnah`s mousoleum yesterday, the former Deputy Prime Minister had said the Pakistan founder`s address was ``really a classic, a forceful espousal of a secular state in which while every citizen would be free to pursue his own religion, the state shall not make any distinction between one citizen and another on grounds of faith.

RSS and VHP have termed as ``unfortunate`` Advani`s statements on the Babri Masjid demolition and Jinnah. Reacting to Advani`s praise for Jinnah, RSS said yesterday that such remarks were against his ideology. Meanwhile, an aide said ``Advani had only recalled what Jinnah himself had said. Similary, he had quoted freedom fighter Sarojini Naidu, who had described him as an Ambassador of Hindu-Muslim unity.`` On the strong reactions evoked by Advani`s statement that the Ayodhya demolition was the ``saddest day of his life,`` they said, ``what is new? He has made similar statements earlier also.`` They recalled that while on Babri demolition, he had termed it as ``most unfortunate`` in the past, he had even termed the Gujarat violence as a ``blot.

Re: # 8, wait till the petroleum companies start financing the local elections and subsequent, dude.

Re: # 6

He said that the petroleum companies in India were willing to fund Lakshmi mansions restoration and renaissance... :)

Manto,
Has Mani Shankar said something for the preservtion of the Laxmi Mansions?

There are interesting news articles about the varied reactions over Advani`s statements in the Indian Express today.One of the most interesting is from Lalu Yadav who has been staunch opponent of Advani and BJP. He says that this is for the first time that Advani is speaking truth and that all his previous statements were artificial and he asks his critics that that how can a person tell lies at his birth place.
Definitely it is going to be a big challenge for BJP to defend this in India but at the same time they now have a chance to come out of the shadow of RSS.

Re: # 7

I don`t give Mr Aiyar high marks but he is a well intentioned gentleman...

Mantolives,
Pal, don`t give high marks to Mani Shankar Aiyar. The man talks crap a lot of times. He is not popular in his own constituency, where he won because of peculiar coalition dynamics.

I would say Jinnah was a horrible hindooo fanatic...after all he got us rid of 2/3rd of the jihadi populace....

Re: # 11

re: avenger123 / prashant123 / gujjubaniya:

///For statements like that dilute Advani`s credibility and diminish his standing among that section of India`s population (hardcore hindu..small time traders , middle class professionals , government servants , angry unemployed/underemployed youth , code coolies etc.) that is opposed to everything about Pakistan. This section , comprising a voting population of 200-250 million is RSS/BJP`s lifeline.///

Umm... of the 670 million who were eligible to vote in the General Elections, 380 million exercised their franchise. If out of those, 225 million are ``the RSS/BJP`s lifeline``, then they should have gotten 60% of the seats. The Election Commission`s site is down at www.eci.gov.in otherwise i`d have posted the links.

Advani`s statements must have pleased Modi more than most. For statements like that dilute Advani`s credibility and diminish his standing among that section of India`s population (hardcore hindu..small time traders , middle class professionals , government servants , angry unemployed/underemployed youth , code coolies etc.) that is opposed to everything about Pakistan. This section , comprising a voting population of 200-250 million is RSS/BJP`s lifeline.

So , given context of the power struggle that was going on between the ambitious middle- aged Modi and the geriatric half-dead Advani , Modi has received an unexpcted boost with Advani`s self-destructive ramblings in The Land Of The Pure.

Advani is now a spent force electorally and will never win an election again. RSS backed Modi will now assume the mantle of BJP`s top player. Advani will be made to quit.

I like Advani. Advani comes out as a sound politician. Every word is well calculated. Not a single superflouos word. But he can still convey his mind.

``Territorial integrity of both countries to be respected for Kashmir solution``. ``Kashmir has people of many different faiths``.

He is also in a great health for his 78 years. Loud and clear voice. A very alert mind. And probably original teeth.

Hurriyat are moving around and giving speeches. They seem to have reconciled and seem to be ready for to an out-of-box solution. The mixing of both sides has taken the sting out of the Kashmir demon. Only a little more time is reqired for this blah-blah-blah to go on until the normal folks get on the same frequency. And then Governments can pick up the courage to say something. The Governments staying one step behind the masses is a safe long term strategy.

The peace process is doing Ok.

nhk

A huge advantage of Modi becoming BJP`s top man is that he is a lower caste hindu. If BJP is to win , it needs to snatch the lower caste hindu voters from the likes of Lalu and Mulayam. So Modi as the face of BJP will not only consolidate the hardcore hindutva voters , but also get the support of the lower caste hindus . If the middle class and lower caste hindus get together behind BJP , that would guarantee electoral success.

Old men out of touch with the realities of India like Advani and Vajpayee were holding BJP back. BJP has to replace those geriatric fools with real representatives of today`s India > Backward caste hindu leaders like Modi , Uma Bharthi , Kalyan Singh etc.

BJP lost the last election because of their feeble attempt to attract muslim voters instead of wooing the lower caste hindus. Muslims will never vote for BJP. Dont waste time on them. Go for lower caste hindus - Yadavs , Dalits and Tribals. Its not a mere co-incidence that in most of the states where BJP is in power , the Chief Ministers are from the lower castes - Modi (Gujarat) , Ram Yadav (MP) , Arjun Munda - a tribal (Jharkand) ...

Hindu voters need to be consolidated - regardless of caste differences. This can be done by raising the muslim bogey....demonising muslims instead of wooing them.