Union Strike One

Re: # 9

re: cayenne:

You know, your crowing and gloating about India on EACH AND EVERY SINGLE thread about Pakistan is really really crass. Totally uncool. Oh, and just b`cause i`m feeling peverse, here`s a word by word rebuttal.

///Well, click on these links and see what an open, democratic society, free market economics and multiculturalism is doing to your very large neighbor to your east....///

More photos from skyscrapercities ? How come no photos of urban India, at street level, shot during the day ? Of street kids sniffing Erasex one kilometre from the President`s Estate ? Of the choking crowds at the Bombay Virar train ? Of slumdwellers crapping on Marina Beach before the middleclass morning walkers arrive ? How come your links always show the skyline during night, when ad hoc construction is invisible and sodium vapour casts a star wars glow on our urban visage ? Or crowds frantically consuming fast food at elite eating joints ? Or natural scenery?

And as for your points,

///Open///

Sure. Open enough to have ratings, not enforce cuts in movies [1] Open enough to tolerate [2] the shooting of a film on a high caste widow and a low caste man.

/// Democratic ///

Booth capturing ? The ``allotment`` of areas by party thugs to a party so that only a token number of known opponents of the thugs` patrons are allowed to vote in a particular area ? The profoundly undemocratic and non-participative functioning of the administrative system?

///Free market economics///

Please. are you really saying India is a free market economy ? Oh and I`ll believe in free market a lot more when I can trash a McDonalds` carton and know that no human being will retrieve it from it`s stinking hole and lick the mayonnaise from my scraps.

///Multiculturalism///

Of course. Just ask the next ``chinky`` you see how Indian he feels / is made to feel. Or for that matter, how ``chinky`` the next mallu you meet feels.

India IS, in many ways, open, free, democratic, possessed of vast enterpreneurial spirit, and overwhelmingly multicultural. The point, dear cayenne, is that when describing India, all adjectives are simultaneously true. it is exhilarating and wretched, good and bad, beautiful and godawful-ugly at the same time. The profane really does rub shoulders (and sometimes bodies) with the sublime. Try not to present only one side of the picture. ESPECIALLY on completely unrelated boards. Your words appear to be either cynical and uncultured gloating and therefore without credibility or naive boosting of the ``my country right or wrong`` variety and also, again, without credibility.

Can we get back to the topic now ? It was about the privatization of a telecommunications corporation in PAKISTAN. If you have anything to say on the topic of telecommunications, privatization or Pakistan, please do so. In boards long past, you`ve shown the ability to think for yourself when nationalities, religions and Pakistan are not involved. Those interacts were well worth reading. Thank you again for them.

Cheers and my apologies if my words have offended you personally in any way.

A_S

[1] http://www.cflr.org/FOS/cover.html
[2] http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/feb2000/film-f12.shtml

I`m not only sorry to hear a criticism based on `examples from history`, but disappointed too. My guess is that instead of following the reading habits of those you criticise, you have read a few books that are perhaps well out of date! I for one will take those more seriously who have acquired their knowledge by recent prints.

As it happened, all those who have contributed so far didn`t really pretend to be scholarly - merely stated what was happening on the ground in Pakistan, and suggested a way out. You are the first one to come along and start throwing history while looking down on all who may not have read the literature you have read.

I hope your voice will be as irrelevant on this forum, as it has become among all those nations that are trying to deal with TODAY by finding tailored solutions to their problems. And you know who they find getting in the way? People like your good self who have only one argument to stop national innovation: IT HASN’T HAPPENED ANYWHERE ELSE BEFORE! Well, look at the Western nations who didn’t let this sort of mentality seep into their national psyche, and look where they are!!!

Enough time you`ve spent away from books, time to go back perhaps?

But if you do decide to hang around, c`mon do give us a condescending lecture on how what you perceive as liberal policies have ruined certain nations. Examples/counterexamples would be welcomed, although I`ll urge my friends here to not let history dictate what their options may be in future.

All we should be interested in is the solutions to OUR problems TODAY, and I`m sure we have enough talented people amongst ourselves who can see what`s wrong with the current systems that breeds corruption, and perpetuates the misery of the nation.

Dear Friends,
I am sick and admitted in hospital. So first of all plz pray for my health.
plz before giving comments on this article plz try to read in between the line. It is not basically about privatization and not in the favour of PTCL workers but it is stating some other story. The issue is over beacuse of the loyal PTCl people but the writer wanted something eles. This article had less for the PTCL people and more for the people like ROZIBA................ Sorry friend you are the losser once again

Note for Roziba.If you are personally hurt by someone plz do not curse the whole insitution there are people those who love it. And you see while sitting at CHOWK you talk like that.

and yes, my post especially was directed at:
faisaluno, haroonellahi, and JawadJEE.

And just in case you haven`t figured: I am vehemently against P-ing the PTCL, and firing the workers. Because the state, I believe, has a social function.

And for those of you who still insist on State`s function being a privitzer, because privitization seems to increase efficiency, I am sure a day will come when Microsoft or Ruper Murdoch will be bidding for the Pakistani State and you all will be ...

HO HO HO!

A neo-liberal gallore! So how many people here have studied the impact of the free-market and globalisation and the spread of hunger, disease, and other such malignancies since the mid-80s - when Reagan and Thatcher gave this paradigm a new life?

Listen. And I come straight at all those defending the Pee word - please quote with reference the success stories of the market - and do exclude China and India which have been state-led development miracles and not market led miracles. (and for those who have not studied any developmental history at ALL, PLEASE dont even mention the East Asian Miracle).

I wish I could give a short lesson in the history of the neo-liberal policies and the impact (economic, social, political) that these policies have had on the countries who have implemented these. but i will not. because for those who understand and have their eyes and ears and heads open, will already have seen how Pakistan has been impacted - because they look beyond the GDP (which was, btw, dumped by the the ``FIRST`` world twenty years back - but our general seems to have a fixation with), to other and more `uneconomical` and `inefficient` measures such as the gini coefficient and the HDI, will know what great a screwup this regime has been.

So, please. I urge all the neo-liberals to:

a. Stop getting your highly developed and scholarly knowledge from Newsweek, Time, GEO and PTV
b. Stop basing your arguments on the bikaoo scholars of Musharraf Inc.`s regime; and
c. look beyond your comfy drawing room and honda civic to the lives of those whose exploits you are wallowing in.

-bilal

Re: # 36

Yeah everything`s LEAPING and BOUNDING in PAKland!!.Mukthar Mai`s leaping and bounding too , to the west where your country will get more negative publicity among the common man and woman who influences buying and selling.Check out some really neat pics of Chandigarh.Who knew they had so many parks in that city.....

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=202776

and, Munnar in Kerala.God`s own country..............

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=224492

and, New Delhi`s world class Metro rail system soon to be replicated in major indian metros

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=160749

Heck, we`re privatising everything in india, have been for a while now.How come we`re doing it in a peaceful, orderly and systematic manner??.Oh, we ain`t paks, i guess.

Mukhlis #33: ``Much like Pakistan Army has filled every lucrative post from Hockey Federation to Telecom Authority to University Chancellorships with retired & serving generals, brigadiers, colonels et al......Whoever has the power, tries to benefit their own.. be it MQM, PPP, PML or PAP (Pakistan Army Party)``

Yes, this is a good analogy.........Which is exactly the benefit of privatizing govt. owned enterprises. Once they are privitized, no govt. organization can place people in their - be they policians, Army, beaurecracy, etc..............

I am all for govt. servants getting competitive salaries (specifically those with qualifications competitive with the private sector). And I am all for govt. servants having to compete in the private sector on their own merit, after retirement. That is what I did.

Placement into organizations like PIA, Railways, PTCL (yes PTCL), PSO, Gas companies, Banks, Fauji Enterprises, etc. will only stop if they are privatized............

The banking sector of Pakistan is, perhaps, the first sector to be fully privitized. This was initiated during Nawaz Sharif`s time. And completed recently. There were massive layoffs. However, the privitization has paid off. Out of the 50 or so banks in Pakistan, only two - National Bank and First Womens Bank - are now owned by the govt. (and Askari owned by the Army Welfare Trust). Due to this, the banking sector is growing, by leaps and bounds..........

In fact, the financial sector of Pakistan has gone through a complete overhaul. The same is now happening to the telecom sector, which is simulaneously growing and being overhauled............My guess is after the privitization of PTCL etc., in a few years, phone calls will be quite cheap in Pakistan.........I have to currently pay 23c/min to make a call to Pakistan, from Canada, on a calling card. Calls to Singapore etc. are 6c/minute or so..........I assume they reason I pay so much is because PTCL charges an overhead on the calls.............Perhaps to pay its over-staffed employees.............

``#10 by rozaiba on June 15, 2005 2:46am PT
Yes, very well dealt with. Everytime a strike occurs, let`s send in the Army. :D Next time, we should include the Air Force and the Navy (perhaps they could do some exercises on Rawal Lake). ``

Your innocent wish has come true.

Observe a dutiful employee of Pakistan Navy, diligently performing his duty of ensuring smooth operations at PTCL.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050614/481/kar10206141153

There is a difference between privatizing a company to int’l investors (assuming it is a White Elephant) and privatizing something to the Army.

I am totally against privatizing anything to the Army. In fact, I am totally against the Army being in the corporate sector, to begin with. If I had the authority the first thing I would do is get the military (read Army) out of owning corporate sector enterprises. Regardless of whether they are run efficiently or inefficiently.

Pakistan Army, through the Army Welfare Trust, is now the largest corporate entity in Pakistan, owning everything from a bank to an IT company to a fertilizer company, cereal company, construction company. The PAF’s Welfare organization recently got into the call center business.

There is an in-built problem with the Army owning companies in the corporate sector. It is actually no different that the govt. owning companies in the corporate sector. There is, relatively speaking, an unlimited budget available to it. And it has too many contacts inside the govt. to get an unfair advantage. Granted, in many areas, it performs more efficiently than many civilian organizations. For example, the prices of plots in Defence Housing societies is sent through the roof by civilian bidders. And the money actually comes from the Welfare accounts/savings of its employees, but it still has unfair advantages.

If today, I go start a computer company in Pakistan, I will have to compete against Askari computers. If Askari computers simply got all the contracts from the military, it could stay in business. In addition, if it needed money, it could get loans from Askari banks, which could further hold all the accounts of the military, fauji fertilizer, etc.

All of the other Fauji enterprises should be privatized also, regardless of how well or poorly they are being run. This will create a level playing field for entreprenuers………….The only place I would make an exception are the educational institutions. Which should be expanded and opened up to as many civilian candidates, as possible.

The other thing that should be ended is allowing retired military professionals to transition into govt. organizations like Foreign services, PIA, Wapda etc. These are very lucrative positions, with a lot of competition….

All of this is done to compensate the military officers for their low salaries. This applies specifically to those with technical skills. The solution to that is to raise the salaries of such individuals, at young ages, to bring them, comparatively, in line with the civilian sector. Like it is regularly done in the USA. Not to transition him into PIA in his 40s to take the job of a 25 year old civilian, or make him the MD of Wapda, when he retires as a General……….

All of this, of course, has nothing to do with the privitization of PTCL. I don`t think PTCL will be able to compete with the private companies popping up all over the place, in Pakistan, without downsizing. The moment the Govt. withdraws its monopoly, it will not be able to keep everyone employed. I also don`t think foreign companies are going to invest in Pakistan, if they know they don`t have a level playing field, and have to compete with giant govt.-owned monopolies............

Re# 20……….``I think Pakistan Steel Mills may be in the same category. I have heard MQM has filled it with its party members……Much like PPP and PML support strong labor unions in PIA…………… ``

Much like Pakistan Army has filled every lucrative post from Hockey Federation to Telecom Authority to University Chancellorships with retired & serving generals, brigadiers, colonels et al.

Whoever has the power, tries to benefit their own.. be it MQM, PPP, PML or PAP (Pakistan Army Party)

Re: # 24

faisal,

..... you might be wrong about fauji fertilizer and others ..... the goons in khaki, helped by henchmen in the airforce and navy, run the biggest corporation in pakistan with a monopoly in many sectors ..............can you name any cereal other than fauji ?

``Fauji Fertilizer - A leading fertilizer manufacturing company with over 40% share of urea manufacturing and marketing in Pakistan``

http://www.ffc.com.pk/

... in 2002 the govt ``privatized`` pak saudi fertilizer by ``seeling`` it to fauji fertilizer for a bargain price of $136 million !



have you seen an eighteen wheeler in pakistan without a NLC logo ? where is its annual report ?

how do you know that FWO is not the largest construction company in pakistan? where is its annual report ?

how do you know that the army public schools (combined with the fauji foundation, bharia, paf schools) is not the largest educational business in pakistan ? where is their annual report ?

............. in this latest ``privatization`` push, fauji is a leading contendor for PSO, one of pakistan`s biggest, companies and fauji cement is sure to get (steal?) mustehkam cement ..........


let`s be truthful - the fact of the matter is that pakistan is owned by the army .........as somone said, ``most countries have armies, the pakistani army has a country``

Re# 24 engro is the biggest fertilizer company in pak

Fauji Fertilizer Corporation (FFC) is the largest fertilizer manufacturer in Pakistan.

FFC`s Urea manufacturing facility near Sadiqabad alone is greater than Engro`s (FFC-Sadiqabad approx. 1.3 million ton/annum vs Engro`s approx. 0.95 million tons/annum). If we add Fauji Fertiliser Bin Qasim (Formerly FFC-Jordan), then total fertiliser production capacity of FFC is approx. 2.3 milion tons/annum (including 0.45 Milion tons/annum of DAP production). In 2002 FFC also took over Pak Saudi fertilisers. This would have increased FFC`s capacity even further.

askari bank`s 2004 annual statement shows that its tax rate was 33%

http://www.askaribank.com.pk/Askari%20AR%202004%20Account.pdf