Indians Do Not Like Each Other

SR is obviously an ignoramus when he talks about a `Big Government` supposedly hampering development in India. Idiot probably equates India with a failed state like Pakistan which survives on external aid. India has a highly federal structure with the state governments running the show in their respective provinces - about 27 of them .

The impediment to development is however state interference in the economy - which has been reduced to a large extent by the economic liberalisation of process over the last 15 years. So `government` or the `state`- both big and small continue to be a problem.

But `state` employs over 10 million people , so every Indian family probably has one member working for the `state`. Ad those running the show - the politicians - for good or bad , are elected by the people of India via a free and fair democratic process.So basically people of India themselves are responsible for the mess they find themselves in. And they are all in it together.

SR #61: In the end, it is all economics and security.

People will break off from a center, if they feel they can get a higher living standard and more security - emotional, cultural, physical, religious, etc. - on their own. In general, there is no option, at the moment, that I see for anyone in Pakistan, where they could achieve that outside Pakistan. The only group I see that could pull it off is a Jinnahpur in urban Sindh. That could, theoretically be turned into a Singapore. It would have the human resources, industry, trade routes, infrastructure, etc.

Other than that, it`s a few people making a lot of noise. When given the choice, they know where their interests lie. There is a reason, after all, that any current or defunct leader of Pakhtoonistan, Sindhu Desh or Baluchistan opts for the pleasures of Karachi and Islmabad, whenever he can.

The net flow of immigrants within South Asia, has always been in towards Pakistan. Never outwards, into other coutries. I can`t see Wali Khan wanting to move to Kabul. Or Bugti limiting himself to just his lands in Bugti.........They want some say in the larger economic pie.......

SR ,

Who made you the expert ? Shut up you fool. As an Indian with mixed parentage - north Indian mom , south Indian dad - I really cannot see this country breaking up...no chance in hell (although I wouldn`t mind too much losing Bihar ;) )...the days of partition etc. are over......for those of my generation - middle class Indians under the age of 25 , if you take away our `Indian` identity , there really is nothing left. Most of us speak english and hindi no matter where we are from in India , most of are agnostics , wont die or kill for religion , and regional loyalties are a thing of the past too. A 2-hour Air trip from Bangalore to Delhi costs lesser than 1000 bucks. There isn`t much of a difference living in Mumbai or Chennai....infact a Bangalorean would feel a million times more comfortable and familiar in Delhi than in Tumkur....a little sleepy town 40 miles from B`lore.

Re: # 59 Romair {``... At least for our lifetimes.... ``}

With this provision, betting on inertia is safer. It is the higher probability. But consider this thought:

A moth that has a life-span of eleven days thinks of the tree bark where he dwells as eternal and immutable.

A few dozen years in the life of a state entity are a brief period. England, for example, has been, in some shape or form, a nation state for over a thousand years. You cannot say the same of Poland, for instance. That state entity came and went three times in a shorter period. But Poland endures because ultimately it was ethno-linguistically much more homogenous than, say, is Pakistan, which is hardly over half a century old even if we were to accept its post-`71 rump state as the original thing. This is no time at all. Surviving thus far is not the same as being out of the woods yet. Infant mortality may yet claim this unfortunate birth-defected baby, as yet barely out of the cradle.

There may or may not be insurgency in Pakistan, I do not claim to know. However, you may find it noteworthy that a son of people from our old Icchra neighborhood in Lahore serves the army. He has been involved in some ongoing military action in Balauchistan. One wonders?

cheers

...SR

Re: # 58 sri {``...i am not so sure about that USSR route. ...``}

Come on now, don`t be so exacting. What`s so bad about the path of the USSR? The Ccmmonwealth of Independent States (CIS), is not doing as badly as they may have. Plus things are looking up for the future. Sure they had a difficult decade, but with the Big Soviet Government gone the local enterprise is better off and will do fine. Bharat and China seem, so far at least, to be doing okay with allowing their economic progress to go ahead despite their Big Governments. Perhaps the secret is the abundant and nearly free labor force. Be that as it may, the success so far is not because of their Big Governments, but in spite of them.


{``... If the fervent fighting in Kargil and the resultant swell of national pride in all Indians was any indication, India will definitely remain very cohesive. ...``}

Betting on a high value of the Popular Index of Martial Patriotism (let`s call it: PIMP) as a predictive indicator of the longevity of the bureaucratic state entity betrays a blatent disregard of history. It is a contrarian indicator. To gamble on it wouldn`t be wise.

best,

...SR

I think the Sub-Continent is close to breaking up into about as many entities as it is going to break up into, for the time being. The only parts left are Kashmir and the Tamil areas of Sri Lanka. Once they are independent, I think the situation will remain like that for a while.

At least for our lifetimes.......

There are no freedom movements going on in Pakistan, in any capacity. Bangladesh, a separate civilization, has separated. And rightly so. It should have been a separate country to begin with. Every other community of Pakistan, has had ample chance to break away, but none has done so. The reason is that they know they are better off than their neighboring ethnic community, across any border. Pathans in Pakistan are much better off than Pathans in Afghanistan. Kashmiris are much better off than Kashmiris in India. Muhajirs are better off than Muslim population in India (or in Pakistan, for that matter). Punjabis are at about the same level as their cousins in Indian Punjab, but have far more influence over Pakistan, than Indian Punjabis have over India. I don`t know how the Baluchis and Sindhis compare with Baluchis in Iran and Sindhis in India.........

India is the same. The Kashmriis want to separate desparately, and will do so, sooner or later. I don`t know what the issue is in Assam. But on the whole everyone else seems ok, considering how large the country happens to be, and how many civilizations it encompases. As long as the economy of India keeps growing, and its various provinces have the level of autonomy they have, they will keep moving along..........

Bangladesh is one civilization to begin with, and the most homogenous country in South Asia. It is the only country that is also a civilization. So they aren`t going to break, even if they remain poor.....

Sri Lanka has the biggest problem. They will have to figure out something, and may break in two large chunks.............

The only other major potential issue that I see at the moment is the situation of Indian Mulsims, if the BJP rises and completely takes control. So far that has not happened. If it does, then even in a rising economy, the BJP could threaten the Muslims, just on an ideological basis and create problems for them. Which would subsequently create problems for India...............And in case of India, the Mulsims are not a small minority, they are a huge sized minority............

#55 by SR

ummm..... i am not so sure about that USSR route. If the fervent fighting in Kargil and the resultant swell of national pride in all Indians was any indication, India will definitely remain very cohesive. To many south indians ( like me ) the desire to see India become super powerful is very real. Not to mention we have the same gods. When Mahabharat and Ramayan TV serials were being shown, I could have driven my hero honda bike at 80kmph on empty Hyderabad roads. Such is the powerful effect the gods have on us ``Bharatians`` psyche. Also the Romantic notion of India ( as a nation ) extending across such a vast area has been indoctrinated in our minds since childhood.

Ok .. here are my 2 cents... South Indians are resentful of Northies because they see them as being backward idiots who are responsible for arresting India`s growth. They see them as being shallow people incapable of serious deep thinking as judged by their Mass cultural movement called Bollywood. They are amazed at the incredible stupidity of people who elect such featherless bipeds as Lallooo and Mulayam. Other than that ... we love our Maharashtrians and Punjabis.

SR.. debate of bharat or india is essentially a pakistani one. indians have transcended it.

Re: # 25
ever been there on a Tuesday? soo crowded! mmm...

Re: # 45 {``...I disagree that India will go down the path of Yugoslavia. India, despite all its differences, remains a stable nation where people are adept at living with each other. ...``}

I agree. Bharat will not go down the road of Yougoslavia. THAT is Pakiland`s fate. Bharat will be more mature and civilized about it and will follow the USSR`s model.

BTW, why does everyone insist on calling Bharat by the presumptuous name India. India, in all its majesty is a geographical entity, not a political one. India stretches from the Indus (thus the name given it by ancient Persian and Greek writers) to the jungles of Burma, from the peaks of Himalia to the streights of Jaffna. Please don`t malign the sacred name of India by making it synonymous with Bharat.

...SR

Re: # 53

What really pisses me off is the fact that we the Pakistanis at first glance are taken as Indians, racially profiled, and pigeonholed into smelly category. Our looks are killing us. Trust me, no one likes you. Where is hamidm.

Re: # 52

Ahem, about three and a half million tourists visiting each year and rising, the entire world doing business with us, all nations maintaining diplomatic ties and us??.Yes, we do love each other.Even the crusty old `Kaura` can`t `do` witout his `baingans`, kvetch as he may.That`s what he notices the minute he rolls into CostCo to buy his panty hoses in bulk.

Is there anyone who does like Indians?

soysauce: I assume you are speaking for yourself. You can get through life without hating other ethnicities etc. Hard to believe it must be (as Yoda would say). But true it is (as Yoda would also say). Nevertheless.

reminds me of this woman i saw who was selling an ``islami calendar`` in the muslim center....to people gathered there for a funeral.

Re: # 46

jang,

what you wrote reminded me of this indian woman who met my newly arrived to the city indian friends in costco, baRe dosti ke saath gall baat hui, and turned out that she wanted my friends to be part of this sales/business venture -- and it was not amway! my girlfriend kind of got suckered in, and once she extricated herself before it got too late, lo ji dosti bhi khat`m. :)

we joked about her roaming the aisles of costco preying on unsuspecting desis after that.