Indians Do Not Like Each Other

SR ,

Who made you the expert ? Shut up you fool. As an Indian with mixed parentage - north Indian mom , south Indian dad - I really cannot see this country breaking up...no chance in hell (although I wouldn`t mind too much losing Bihar ;) )...the days of partition etc. are over......for those of my generation - middle class Indians under the age of 25 , if you take away our `Indian` identity , there really is nothing left. Most of us speak english and hindi no matter where we are from in India , most of are agnostics , wont die or kill for religion , and regional loyalties are a thing of the past too. A 2-hour Air trip from Bangalore to Delhi costs lesser than 1000 bucks. There isn`t much of a difference living in Mumbai or Chennai....infact a Bangalorean would feel a million times more comfortable and familiar in Delhi than in Tumkur....a little sleepy town 40 miles from B`lore.

I think the Sub-Continent is close to breaking up into about as many entities as it is going to break up into, for the time being. The only parts left are Kashmir and the Tamil areas of Sri Lanka. Once they are independent, I think the situation will remain like that for a while.

At least for our lifetimes.......

There are no freedom movements going on in Pakistan, in any capacity. Bangladesh, a separate civilization, has separated. And rightly so. It should have been a separate country to begin with. Every other community of Pakistan, has had ample chance to break away, but none has done so. The reason is that they know they are better off than their neighboring ethnic community, across any border. Pathans in Pakistan are much better off than Pathans in Afghanistan. Kashmiris are much better off than Kashmiris in India. Muhajirs are better off than Muslim population in India (or in Pakistan, for that matter). Punjabis are at about the same level as their cousins in Indian Punjab, but have far more influence over Pakistan, than Indian Punjabis have over India. I don`t know how the Baluchis and Sindhis compare with Baluchis in Iran and Sindhis in India.........

India is the same. The Kashmriis want to separate desparately, and will do so, sooner or later. I don`t know what the issue is in Assam. But on the whole everyone else seems ok, considering how large the country happens to be, and how many civilizations it encompases. As long as the economy of India keeps growing, and its various provinces have the level of autonomy they have, they will keep moving along..........

Bangladesh is one civilization to begin with, and the most homogenous country in South Asia. It is the only country that is also a civilization. So they aren`t going to break, even if they remain poor.....

Sri Lanka has the biggest problem. They will have to figure out something, and may break in two large chunks.............

The only other major potential issue that I see at the moment is the situation of Indian Mulsims, if the BJP rises and completely takes control. So far that has not happened. If it does, then even in a rising economy, the BJP could threaten the Muslims, just on an ideological basis and create problems for them. Which would subsequently create problems for India...............And in case of India, the Mulsims are not a small minority, they are a huge sized minority............

Re: # 59 Romair {``... At least for our lifetimes.... ``}

With this provision, betting on inertia is safer. It is the higher probability. But consider this thought:

A moth that has a life-span of eleven days thinks of the tree bark where he dwells as eternal and immutable.

A few dozen years in the life of a state entity are a brief period. England, for example, has been, in some shape or form, a nation state for over a thousand years. You cannot say the same of Poland, for instance. That state entity came and went three times in a shorter period. But Poland endures because ultimately it was ethno-linguistically much more homogenous than, say, is Pakistan, which is hardly over half a century old even if we were to accept its post-`71 rump state as the original thing. This is no time at all. Surviving thus far is not the same as being out of the woods yet. Infant mortality may yet claim this unfortunate birth-defected baby, as yet barely out of the cradle.

There may or may not be insurgency in Pakistan, I do not claim to know. However, you may find it noteworthy that a son of people from our old Icchra neighborhood in Lahore serves the army. He has been involved in some ongoing military action in Balauchistan. One wonders?

cheers

...SR

#55 by SR

ummm..... i am not so sure about that USSR route. If the fervent fighting in Kargil and the resultant swell of national pride in all Indians was any indication, India will definitely remain very cohesive. To many south indians ( like me ) the desire to see India become super powerful is very real. Not to mention we have the same gods. When Mahabharat and Ramayan TV serials were being shown, I could have driven my hero honda bike at 80kmph on empty Hyderabad roads. Such is the powerful effect the gods have on us ``Bharatians`` psyche. Also the Romantic notion of India ( as a nation ) extending across such a vast area has been indoctrinated in our minds since childhood.

Ok .. here are my 2 cents... South Indians are resentful of Northies because they see them as being backward idiots who are responsible for arresting India`s growth. They see them as being shallow people incapable of serious deep thinking as judged by their Mass cultural movement called Bollywood. They are amazed at the incredible stupidity of people who elect such featherless bipeds as Lallooo and Mulayam. Other than that ... we love our Maharashtrians and Punjabis.

Re: # 58 sri {``...i am not so sure about that USSR route. ...``}

Come on now, don`t be so exacting. What`s so bad about the path of the USSR? The Ccmmonwealth of Independent States (CIS), is not doing as badly as they may have. Plus things are looking up for the future. Sure they had a difficult decade, but with the Big Soviet Government gone the local enterprise is better off and will do fine. Bharat and China seem, so far at least, to be doing okay with allowing their economic progress to go ahead despite their Big Governments. Perhaps the secret is the abundant and nearly free labor force. Be that as it may, the success so far is not because of their Big Governments, but in spite of them.


{``... If the fervent fighting in Kargil and the resultant swell of national pride in all Indians was any indication, India will definitely remain very cohesive. ...``}

Betting on a high value of the Popular Index of Martial Patriotism (let`s call it: PIMP) as a predictive indicator of the longevity of the bureaucratic state entity betrays a blatent disregard of history. It is a contrarian indicator. To gamble on it wouldn`t be wise.

best,

...SR

SR.. debate of bharat or india is essentially a pakistani one. indians have transcended it.

Is there anyone who does like Indians?

Re: # 52

Ahem, about three and a half million tourists visiting each year and rising, the entire world doing business with us, all nations maintaining diplomatic ties and us??.Yes, we do love each other.Even the crusty old `Kaura` can`t `do` witout his `baingans`, kvetch as he may.That`s what he notices the minute he rolls into CostCo to buy his panty hoses in bulk.

Re: # 53

What really pisses me off is the fact that we the Pakistanis at first glance are taken as Indians, racially profiled, and pigeonholed into smelly category. Our looks are killing us. Trust me, no one likes you. Where is hamidm.

Re: # 54

You would be lucky if you were indian.Indians travel without let or hindrance.Unlike paks.The only south asians targeted by the authorities in the US are pak or bangla.Indians are increasing in numbers.The most recent recruitment being nurses from india as green card holders from india direct.No filing or waiting period.There is not one indian muslim in detention for terrorism or related activities.The only one in detention is a hindu businessman from the UK.Infact, most indians are wary of being profiled as pak.

soysauce: I assume you are speaking for yourself. You can get through life without hating other ethnicities etc. Hard to believe it must be (as Yoda would say). But true it is (as Yoda would also say). Nevertheless.

reminds me of this woman i saw who was selling an ``islami calendar`` in the muslim center....to people gathered there for a funeral.

This is a dumb article for the way it tries to simplify things. India is an amalagam of different nations, states, subnations, tribes, etc. So long as its internal contradictions do not overwhelm a shared identity, any nation will survive.
Israel, for being a theocracy, suffers terribly from ethnic tensions. The russians hate the ethiopians, the seculars hate the orthodox, and so on, but it endures because there is nothing else to compete with the idea of a nation for jews of all ethnicities.
Iraq`s internal contradictions are what it made it possible for colonial powers to take it over. If it had been a nation where Kurds felt like they were Iraqis first we would not have the situation we have today.
The US is probably going through the second most divisive period in its history after the civil war. The yanks hate the southern trailer trash, the democrats hate the republicans, the religious fundamentalists hate the baby-killing secular humanists, everybody hates everybody else and yet no one saying this is an UNnatural nation or a nation on the brink of self destruction.

I am surrounded by those well oiled baingans , wrapped in brightly colored wrappers.

It is easier to relate to goras.

I can see tennis courts from my window. The sight of these baingans `playing` tennis. I get free entertainment almost every evening. Spindly legs and toothpick arms - can`t tell where the arm ends and the racket begins.... flaying at the ball......then the chest puffs when the equally endowed opponent fails to return the `serve`.....then they take 5 minutes to catch the breath before the next `serve`.

and those so obvious sideway glances that stare and pierce you. fobs at Walmart who walk as if they just landed on the moon.

there was a time when you saw another injun once every year or so and it was more or less a cordial meeting. now they throng Costcos, clearance racks at evey store, buying bright clothes that are 10 sizes too big.

looky.. when an indian starts coming towards me with broad smile in a mall, i bolt in to the nearest ladies rest-room and lock myself in. i just dont want to be invited into an independant bussiness venture which surprisingly requires no skills of any kind. i am talking Amway. This is why desis in the west glare at each other.

Re: # 46

jang,

what you wrote reminded me of this indian woman who met my newly arrived to the city indian friends in costco, baRe dosti ke saath gall baat hui, and turned out that she wanted my friends to be part of this sales/business venture -- and it was not amway! my girlfriend kind of got suckered in, and once she extricated herself before it got too late, lo ji dosti bhi khat`m. :)

we joked about her roaming the aisles of costco preying on unsuspecting desis after that.