S F Hasnat June 13, 2005
#8 Posted by Urstruly on June 14, 2005 1:11:11 pm
I am all for the revolution in Pakistan, as long as me, my family and our assets remain safe.
#7 Posted by DoubleC on June 14, 2005 10:47:04 am
and the end result will be that the Islamist will take advantage of this anger and frustration that the young generation has and use it to take over the country. They will then impose sharia law all over Pakistan. Please remember that they would only do this to benefit themselves and not Islam.
The solution: Pakistan needs a revolution. Someone who will think for the country and the people and not for one`s personal gain.
Sadly there isn`t an individual in Pakistan that will think of the country and people before he/she thinks of themselves.
End result: The Islamist will take over Pakistan for a few decades and then there will be another revolution that will rid the country of Islamist. These individuals will then have the backbone to sort things out and think firstly for the betterment for the country and then themselves.
In short: It ain`t happening in our lifetime.
The solution: Pakistan needs a revolution. Someone who will think for the country and the people and not for one`s personal gain.
Sadly there isn`t an individual in Pakistan that will think of the country and people before he/she thinks of themselves.
End result: The Islamist will take over Pakistan for a few decades and then there will be another revolution that will rid the country of Islamist. These individuals will then have the backbone to sort things out and think firstly for the betterment for the country and then themselves.
In short: It ain`t happening in our lifetime.
#6 Posted by HP on June 14, 2005 10:37:36 am
“Decades of military rule created a way of life, where the real Pakistani values were undermined, which ultimately eroded for the worse. Oppression, intolerance and disregard for law were practiced by the ruling elite, as an accepted model.”
What are the “real Pakistani Values” that you refer to? The Pakistani values ARE made of “Oppression, intolerance and disregard for law” . The Pak army did not develop these values, Pakistan inherited them from undivided India and our long gone colonial masters developed them. Why blame the army for something they inherited?
Now tell me how these values are any different in India, which is a supposedly democratic country! The Indian democracy or the Pakistani Army has not made a dent in the system. For the simple reason that they don’t know how to do that. Just to illustrate my point, a police inspector from Ancholi, UP would be at home in Chumber, Sindh or Mian Chunoon, Punjab because he is serving the same laws, same government officials and the same mindset. A lowly placed clerk in Delhi would ask for a similar monetary favor, as the one in Islamabad would do.
Whatever value system Pakistan has, is inherited from the undivided India courtesy our foreign masters. This system is secular, it is designed to create privileges and it is based on corruption.
By secular, I mean it never distinguishes between people and treats them equally(mostly badly) unless you have an inside track and if you have an inside track, you are privileged and once you have privileges you have the right to abuse your privileges and that is corruption.
Both Indian and Pakistani societies follow similar values the only difference is the form of government but has the Indian democracy eliminated “Oppression, intolerance and disregard for law”? No! not at all!
With Indian democracy, there is a hope (extremely faint though) that things would change and with the Pak army, hope is an illusion.
Why democracy creates hope and the army rule diminishes it? Because the democracy has to constantly bring more people in to share the privileges. With the army, the circle keeps shirking as the army or any despotic group continues to grab more instead of sharing it.
“This is accompanied by the feeling of deprivation, amongst a large majority of the people.”
It is all about privileges. Poor have no privileges and they don’t count. They are insects.
Sounds too harsh? Follow me. In the US, 3 to 4 people can tend a ten thousand acre agriculture farm. In India or Pakistan, it will require 400-500 people. So if the farming were industrialized in both countries, millions of people and their families would have nothing to eat. Both Pakistan and Indian can afford to change things in the countryside. But if they do that, all these unemployed people would swamp the cities, ruin great neighborhoods, and would be begging in rags everywhere. Do you really want an insect attack? Who would squish them?
“Large majority of people” should not feel deprived; governments are helping them keep their jobs.
Bottom line you can’t blame the army for everything they do lots of things to help people too.
#5
``I’d like to believe the masses, oppressed enough will one day emerge from dormancy.``
Pipedream! It has never happened in the histroy and it will never happen in Pakistan too.
Poor were doomed from the get go.
#5 Posted by miriamk on June 14, 2005 10:20:03 am
Temp:
#4
“...revolts occcur and succeed in species that have spine...through dormancy what passed for backbone once is brittle now…”
:(…a sad and resigned view of Pakistan. I hope that’s not true. I’d like to believe the masses, oppressed enough will one day emerge from dormancy. Aren’t the heralds of revolution the seemingly spineless and feeble masses that one day make a choice to no longer languish in their docility?
#4
“...revolts occcur and succeed in species that have spine...through dormancy what passed for backbone once is brittle now…”
:(…a sad and resigned view of Pakistan. I hope that’s not true. I’d like to believe the masses, oppressed enough will one day emerge from dormancy. Aren’t the heralds of revolution the seemingly spineless and feeble masses that one day make a choice to no longer languish in their docility?
#4 Posted by temporal on June 14, 2005 7:32:25 am
Farooq:
this caught my eye!
... the manner in which the State is being governed and the types of relief a citizen is denied, through normal economic, legal and administrative/political methods.
is this a freudian slip or reflective of your mindset?;)
james davies aside...revolts occcur and succeed in species that have spine...through dormancy what passed for backbone once is brittle now...apologise for somewhat true but strong words
welcome to chowk:)
rgds
t
this caught my eye!
... the manner in which the State is being governed and the types of relief a citizen is denied, through normal economic, legal and administrative/political methods.
is this a freudian slip or reflective of your mindset?;)
james davies aside...revolts occcur and succeed in species that have spine...through dormancy what passed for backbone once is brittle now...apologise for somewhat true but strong words
welcome to chowk:)
rgds
t
#3 Posted by arjun_m on June 14, 2005 5:15:21 am
#2 by Siddhartha on June 14, 2005 2:16am PT
is the fact that in order to bleed India Pakistan supported kashmiri militancy
Yes they did...and a majority of the pakistani public supported that policy...now it`s come to bite them back in the rear(which, in the case of pakis, is likely to result in severe brain damage)....
karma...it`s a female of the canine species...
Sheikh Rashid trained Kashmiri fighters: Yasin
By Shahzad Raza
ISLAMABAD: When the armed struggle in held Kashmir was at its zenith, Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed set up a camp where around 3,500 Jihadis were trained in guerrilla warfare, revealed Yasin Malik, the Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) chairman, at an exhibition of 1.5 million signatures by Kashmiris demanding their involvement in the dialogue process.
is the fact that in order to bleed India Pakistan supported kashmiri militancy
Yes they did...and a majority of the pakistani public supported that policy...now it`s come to bite them back in the rear(which, in the case of pakis, is likely to result in severe brain damage)....
karma...it`s a female of the canine species...
Sheikh Rashid trained Kashmiri fighters: Yasin
By Shahzad Raza
ISLAMABAD: When the armed struggle in held Kashmir was at its zenith, Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed set up a camp where around 3,500 Jihadis were trained in guerrilla warfare, revealed Yasin Malik, the Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) chairman, at an exhibition of 1.5 million signatures by Kashmiris demanding their involvement in the dialogue process.
#2 Posted by Siddhartha on June 14, 2005 2:16:48 am
A very good analysis. What I would add in sidelines is the fact that in order to bleed India
Pakistan supported kashmiri militancy and help training camps for terrorist in its soil. This
no doubt kept Kashmir problem in the psyche but ``Ye shall reap what ye seed``.
It has been common to hear about killings in Pakistan because of this psyche. A vibrant
nation it could have been, a haven for knowledge and learning it could have been, but
because of hatred and revenge mentality, it has become a pariah state.
But all is not lost. A normal Pakistani man or woman has enough talents to shine out and
if given good environment they do prosper.
May be the military should control Mullahs with a strict hand?
May be the next Karo Kiri case should be dealt with life imprisonment?
May be next rape case should be seen as a crime against humanity?
May be next bomb blast at any holy site (shia, sunni, hindu, christian) should lead to
removal of all police-people?
May be the next election should be ``free, fair and forthcoming`?
But these are wishes only..
Pakistan supported kashmiri militancy and help training camps for terrorist in its soil. This
no doubt kept Kashmir problem in the psyche but ``Ye shall reap what ye seed``.
It has been common to hear about killings in Pakistan because of this psyche. A vibrant
nation it could have been, a haven for knowledge and learning it could have been, but
because of hatred and revenge mentality, it has become a pariah state.
But all is not lost. A normal Pakistani man or woman has enough talents to shine out and
if given good environment they do prosper.
May be the military should control Mullahs with a strict hand?
May be the next Karo Kiri case should be dealt with life imprisonment?
May be next rape case should be seen as a crime against humanity?
May be next bomb blast at any holy site (shia, sunni, hindu, christian) should lead to
removal of all police-people?
May be the next election should be ``free, fair and forthcoming`?
But these are wishes only..
#1 Posted by cayenne on June 14, 2005 2:06:55 am
The genesis of militancy in pakistan is a result of avarice and stupidity, both qualities found in abundance in the land of the pure.The rest of the reasons are purely consequential.
listing 16-32
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