My Harvard Reunion

Re: # 23
#23, where are you getting that I am euphoric?
I am a very realistic person. I do know the values of both the worlds. America has it`s shortcomings and so do India. As it stands today, everybody wants to come to USA why????

Re: # 12

Don`t get too euphoric just because you spent 4 years in Cambridge(MA) at Harvard Univ. This is only the beginning and there are thousands of graduates from HU. and have not turned US into an ideal world to live in. Your life has just started buddy. Try to get a good job first now. Make sure you return all overdue books before you pack up and go out in the cold world!

BTW where did you live there Elliott house?

Re: # 1
Mr Harimau:
Naam Burra Aur Darshan Chote!

Give credit where due. I am not a Nehru fan but the man is truly responsible of sowing the seeds of educational establishments patterned after Cambridge, University of Leningrad and MIT. But for him there would be no IIT/IIS and IARC in India.
Even Pakistani leadership has acknowledged at numerous times Nehru`s contributions for India. He is known as Father of Modern India.

Delhiwala wrote:

[IIT/IIS were conceived by Nehru in 50ies as model colleges where world class top-notch education would be provided to the merit based students.]

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

It is clear that India is full of idiots who cannot even google for basic facts before they write crap like this.

One thing going for you though: if you actually attended Harvard, you didn`t copy your term papers from the internet because you don`t have the skills for that. You bought them from some fellow hawking them at street corners.

PS. The only thing Nehru could conceive of was a Stalinist cult in his name in India.

Re: # 2
NHK:
I do agree with you that Eastern students are left lonely in America, generally speaking.
At Harvard I was lucky because I met some wonderful fellow students at MIT. In fact there is a full fledged Bhangra Team at MIT that competes all over the world at University level.

One basic difference between American and Indian system of education that I noticed big time was that; I was used to being sincere only during the few weeks prior to the exams. Whereas in America you pretty much have to consistent from day one and have to apply your mind constantly, linearly otherwise you wont make it. Even the very first, introductory class gives you a framework of what to expect year round is very imperative.

Servjit

Harvard is in a different leauge.

But I agree that most US universities are just money making machines. Producing mechanical robots and not scholars. Also giving the Eastern students a psychological punishment of lonliness.

European (including Eastern Europe) & Russian Universities still retain a cultural flavour, have a much longer history, are much cheaper and do tend to produce thinking scholers.

But this `sheep mentality` gets everyone to US - just like every one jumped into IT as if there was no other subject to study.

nhk

[Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.]

harimau...
you calling dilliwala stupid?... i guess you too know him ...;)

Re: # 4
Thanks Tahmed Sir Jee!

It has it`s own charm, there are many people who never leave Universities in their life. They just want to hang on there doing odd jobs.

Mostly, Boston Colleges are money making machines. Maybe there are 5-10% sincere students who really fall under studious category. Rest of them are just there to work hard, get good grades and move on.

One area that I really like at Harvard was Divinity. If time permits one day I would like to go back and study Divinity there.

Greetings, delhiwala. Now I wish I had studied there. :-) I have been to Harvard a few times (not as a student, sad to say - just as a visitor), and it indeed has a nice atmosphere. The students all seem very studious (as one would expect), and I would see them deeply absorbed in their textbooks even in this metro from Boston to Harvard Yard. However, I must say I prefer good old Panjab University, Lahore myself. They didnt teach us as much as they would have done at Harvard, but the two years at New Campus Lahore was among the best times of my life.

Re: # 29
...dilli... you are so stupid you don`t even know your friend salim from gujju... no wonder people think you graduated out of howard school...;)

Re: # 5
Salim Dost, Aslam Walekum!

I pay no attention to this character.

Delhiwala..dont mind Khamkhwa...he is just jealous that you did your MBA at Harvard while he did his at Rawalpindi...

Re: # 6
Thank You Jang.
I do miss Boston very much.
I have whole pothi of my daily logs that hopefuly one day I will publish in free time.

thank you for your well writtern essay. please write more. some suggestions
``How i spent an afternoon on the Charles``
``An evening at the Fanuil Hall Maketplace``

Re: # 7
Oh Really, since when?

``Mr. Harvard was still sitting in the same posture on a high pedestal as I had left him last time when I had shined his shoes before my Final Exam. ``

I don`t think you actually attended Harvard or you would know that the statue is not actually of John Harvard but of a student model instead. Heck, I did not go to Harvard and I knew that simply by living in the vicinity.

Re: # 8

Excuse me Sir, my statement is 100 % true.
Imagine IITian and IAS in India and compare them to CEOs or other leaders in America who went to harvard. Where do you see more elitism?
I see more elitism in India than in America. Check your vectors buddy.

Is the author trying to say that IITs promote elitism while Harvard and MIT don`t?
This must be the statement of the century!

stuka #7:

:)

yah to harvard ka standard gir gaya hay (spelling mistakes galore;))

ya phir humara standard ooncha ho gaya hay thanks to chowk!

This reminds me of my graduation day and consecutive reunions at IBA...good ol`days..

i wish i could reverse the wheel of time and start all over again..

Re: # 17
Dude,
you have one million questions in your post.
My $.02 about IITs
Best IITs in India would in this order in my opinion, kharagpur/Kanpur/Delhi/Bombay/Roorke and the rest.

Kanpur U.P is probably the best in terms of student/teaching quality.

Delhi is best in terms of labs and resources and funding.

IITs are only technology, you can compare IIT to MIT but not Harvard.

As far foreign students are concerned, they do take some NRI(non resident Indians), SAARC students etc. You would need recommendations from your Govt.
I remember that there used to lot of Palestinian students in IIT Delhi, and could still get degree even if they failed(don`t know how it happened).

M Tech courses are not as great as B Tech at IITS, mostly IAS aspirants would join M Tech to save time and money and prepare for IAS while enrolled in M Tech.

Thanks for article about worlds greatest collge. I am confused is there same named college in UK also ( oxford harward and cambridge?). Sir Izzac Newton was prof there in 1600s.
How much is fee per year and is it more engg college like IIT. ( Indians compare that college to IIT). How much is fee for IIT per year? Is harward in IT areas like IIT?
Do they reserve seats for minorities and backward hindus in IIT? Are there any seats for SARAC countries and if yes how much fee per year in dollars? If special reservations are made once admitted to disadvantaged students graded on different scale considering disadvantages or treated as normal students ?
Can any american address if IIT grad and Harwad apply assuming both fine how much harward will have advantage in dollars ? How is lahores managemwnt school grads do in usa? Is IIT engg + management courses taken for engineers or they have MBA (IIT). Which is best IIT in India ? Can any body give how for start salary they do?
Thanks too many questions. I have heard about IIT.
In Arab land IIT is not considered very good.
American collge degree
Europe degree (England top)
Arabic univ- native vernacular schools
Pakistan Univs
IITs
is order.

Re: # 38

I can assure you one thing no matter where you are in the world(with some exceptions), anybody who is a B. TECH from any IIT in India from any branch would be hired at the drop of a hat.
I have seen a Chemical Engg from IIT Delhi(not very high in the scale) being hired by IBM with a starting salary of $120 base + bonus with no IT experience, except some progamming skills in his area of expertise.
This guy ended up creating a microcode based language that is used by IBM microelectrics now. I am not saying this because I was born in India or I am envious of IITians but because I see it on a daily basis.

As far as other Asian IITians are concerned, I really don`t know what to say. Most of them were Political refugees when Indira Gandhi was trying to be friendly with Yasser Arafat. and other NAM countries. These Palestinians(most of them that I knew) were family guys and were happy to live in India in IIT campus hostels with subsidized food. I was told that Palestinians live in camps in their country and India(a third world country) was a haven for them. I did meet 2 foreign IITians(one S African and one Romanian) who went to IIT Madras and they were very happy about IIT, they work in Boston now.

As far as Indian Railways are concerned; they work in India for the Indians. You can travel from N Delhi to Secundrabad, a distance of 1100 miles for $8-10, what else do you want?

It costs, $8 R/T from NJ to NYC, a distance of 5-10 miles.

Re: # 31 Thanks for your answers. Yes some are passed in IIT even if they failed. When I went to Gulf for very short assignment I met IIT grad ( Palestanian) and he did IIT BTech from Kharagpore. He said they are promoted even though he failed many courses. He did not like the branch assigned to him, they were inflexible, hye had no choice as otherwise he would have lost scholorship and admission. He was mad as he was not given mechanical engg but mining engg and he had no interest in that. Later he went to college and did civil engg in USA and is working at big position. As he was given free scholarship and education he had contempt for IIT college. So he being big manager ( hire and fire) gave me his preference for hiring - us college-europe college- Arab college-pakistan-IIT and other colleges in India.

Due to that I asked question the other ordinary Indian students are graded in usual way of their condition is taken into account while grading.
I have watched pictures of Indian railway being rail fan of all world railways. Few times gone to India, you have good local service specially at peak at bombay city where it was fun to watch local train coming every 2 minutes.
About Hyderbad metro I saw pictures its not good. It looks like bombay local chhap type. Metro to be called means it should be shining clean, modern and should be underground most of time. Also lots of people one can see with open doors poking out bodies and people crossing rail path. It is different as some pictures show lots of hundreds of people riding roof of railway. Thanks.

Re: # 18
Ahmed Sahib,
India`s Railway system is not as slow as you think. It is the biggest in the world not the latest though.

There is a huge growth potential for Domestic Airlines in India due to drastic surge in IT, leading to local air travel.

As of now, Indian airports do not have required infrasturcture for the potential growth. For e.g. IGIA at Delhi does not have a CAT-II ILS systems that is critical for landing in 0/0 weather and as probably know, Delhi is full of fog in winters and haze in summers. This was the cause of many international airliners refusing to fly to India or have loimited services.
As per the Govt, India would see big changes in civil and general aviation by 2007.

About IIT read today some IIT man from usa is starting big airline company in India. The news says he has ordered 100 airbus airmachines that is big money. Is there market in India as most travel by slow moving railway built by english over hundred years ago. Can they have passangers for new 100 plane Introduction in India? ( or they have airports also to handle sudden 100 planes).
Thanks sorry for too many questions

Re: # 19
bhaag yeha se, mawali.

#18,
There is typo in the article. This guy actually went to Howard college and that is a black college in Washington, DC. All East coast cities are identical. Dark and dorky!
If a person writes in such a non funny style about a fun event of graduation, must have gone to Howard and not Harvard...

Re: # 80

Is that Kala you are talking about?
Dr Cheema was my Masad Jee.

Re: # 78

Sorry to hear about Dr Harcharan Singh. You make me nostalgic.When I joined,the first introductory lecture was by him and he asked us to write an essay that ``why I want to become a doctor.`` I still remember almost every line of what I wrote 25 years ago.
Throughout,his emphasis used to on how to become a good doctor.

One of my friends(was very senior to me) joined M.D. in S.P.M. after having done M.D. in pediatrics, just to work with Dr. Harcharan Singh.He(my friend) is still one of the vry few who have double M.D.

Re: # 77
If you were his student then you have to be a good Doctor. I miss him very much.

Re: # 40
He is dead now for the last 4 yrs. He joined Planning Commission as Additional Secretary Health Ministry then he joined WHO. He had some Liver complications.

Re: # 34
I am not sure.If you are talking about Prof.Harcharan Singh of Social and Preventive Medicine,then yes.He did not use any surname.He was our vice principle when I joined Medical College Patiala,but he soon got selected to a very high office in Delhi(Deputy Director General and perhaps became Director General of Health Services of India).He was perhaps the finest teacher of S.P.M.around that time in the whole country.

Re: # 20

Drlokraj: Did you goto Patiala medical College?
Was there a Professor Hracharan Singh Cheema there?

Free higher education in India is story of the past.When I graduated from Medical Colege Patiala in eightees,fee of one prof(18 months) was around Rs.1500 or so but now it is several thousands(dont know the exact amount) and all state colleges have reserved several seats for NRIs,costing several lacs of rupees each year.Same is the case with Engineering colleges.
Karnatka state alone has probably more number of professional colleges than rest of India combined and except some,they have no criteria of marit...its only your paying power.
There has been mushrooming of Engineering colleges(and Dental Colleges) in Punjab lately......I can count minimum seven just around Chandigarh...they are all commercial.Admission to a private dental college costs anywhere between 5 lac and 20 lac.
This is the direct effect of discarding the Nehruvian socialistic model and adoption of open economy/globalization since the time of Narsimha Rao.

Why is everyone so jealous if DehliWala went to Harvard to study. I wish you all and me myself the most to get a chance to study there... Check www.usnews.com, harvard MBA grads get an AVERAGE of $99,000 per year starting, and that is just the average, means the top students will easilly cross $100,000 per year!

Gratz Dehlidude... :|

Ref delhiwala #12

[Give credit where due. I am not a Nehru fan but the man is truly responsible of sowing the seeds of educational establishments patterned after Cambridge, University of Leningrad and MIT. But for him there would be no IIT/IIS and IARC in India.]

You know, I am getting sick and tired of crapola from people who in other countries would be institutionalized but in India use papa`s money to get fancy degrees.

Print my response out and go to a browsing center. A 12-year-old chokra there would be able to then do what I want him to do and you can read what appears on the screen.

1. Log on to the internet
2. Type www.google.com and hit the ENTER key.
3. In the textbox that appears, type in Indian Institute of Technology, Kharagpur.
4. Out of the results that appear, choose what is most likely to be the homepage of IIT, Kharagpur.
5. Click on the button that says ``History``.
6. Read that.

Second assignment:

Repeat the above but use Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore instead of Indian Institute of Technology, Kharagpur.

Now, with your Harvard education(?) do you think you can accomplish that?

[Even Pakistani leadership has acknowledged at numerous times Nehru`s contributions for India]

Pakistanis are mainly Punjabis like yourself or UP bhaiyyas. Statistically, their IQ is not going to be higher. And they are behind on the internet boom so they are unable to google effectively.

[He is known as Father of Modern India.]

Yup. I was reading some time back some old vernacular newspapers in India where he was referred to as the ``Light of Asia``. I guess that stopped when the Chinese punched his lights out in 1962.

Ahmed madani,

You are a product of the pathetic paki education system but atleast you have
managed to resist its influence than some of the other pakis. You ask questions.

Answering your question...NO - India does not have the infrastructure at this time.
Air travel is booming. All the airports are clogged and getting more clogged every day.
There are totally about 150 passenger aircraft (all kinds) today.
However, infrastructure/large capacity is being added at this time and it will start showing
massive results in 2007-2008 time frame.
The change in air-travel has been dramatic. The numbers flying is increasing
exponentially.

Also just because an order is placed doesnt mean the aircraft is delivered immediately !
There is a waiting time, all kinds of approvals are needed, all kinds of financial
arrangements etc.

Madani Saheb,

There are about 200 odd OK size airports in india, averaging 2 flightrs a day. They can easilly accept more load..its the large hub-airports which are a problem. the demand is very high, its not easy to get an air-ticket and flights are full.

Eliott house these days holds the best Garba in Town during Navratri :-)

a great IT course at harvard.

http://www.extension.harvard.edu/almit/default.jsp

Re: # 27

I was also getting a feeling that I have encountered him before.
No matter what you do, people will still give away in aliased NICs.
Why can`t everyone be happy and peaceful, why this India/Paki hatred, even on the internet, 58 yrs after the partition??????

#24 by satyamvada
[``Ahmed madani,
You are a product of the pathetic paki education system``]

satya zankhay, madani is one of the 3 Indian java programmers who post on chowk with 62 nicks. He is as pakistani as your father. No offence, just an example.

Re: # 35
Mr Khamkhawa, please leave my thread alone. Spread your hatred elsewhere with your girlfriends.
This is a clean thread with quality participation, if you want to be civil you are welcome otherwise please don`t come here.

Goodbye!

[I remember that there used to lot of Palestinian students in IIT Delhi, and could still get degree even if they failed(don`t know how it happened).] - delhiwala.

... the way it happened with you... ;))

Yaar delhiwale..it doesn`t matter who I am , but Khamkhwa is clearly jealous of Harvard grads..

Delheewallah,

While your piece seems to be focusing on the university as a corporate brand name, this is not news. You might want to include how post 9/11 policies towards immigration and international students have pushed some of the best and brightest towards China, India and Europe for higher education. As the US has always profitted from the influx of highly talented immigrants, the consequences of these misguided and distrustful policies only mark the US`s inevitable decline as superpower. Our Great Leaders seem to be more interested in starting Christian colleges-and once religious ideology passes as the only relevant knowledge making system, we are truly headed towards mediocrity.

Also, not a mention of a single prof or class that changed your life? All that money, and all you got for it was a keychain?

Does anyone want to take up with delhiwala is assertion that IITs promote elitism while Harvard, Cambridge etc are oasis of egilatarism? If no one does it, I will.

The Ivies egalitarian? As egalitarian as William Buckley doling out soup on Thanksgiving....

...at a homeless shelter....

Re: # 47 Mr.Delhiwala... what is meant by NIC ?

Rajiv, sanjay and Rahul and Mrs.Priyanka probably did not go to school due to security reasons is my feeling. Any way many IITians will work for them they just need to manage educated people.

I had no knowledge of high Tech or even low tech and foreign colleges and so I asked questions and please bear with my questions. I also wonder what is Ivy Leage college. Its establ;ished by old english rulers in British North Ameriaca? Also rutger is Ivy school ? Ivy is poison plant? How is Rutger is ranked? Is harward IVY school ?

Recently my health not good and problem of depression suffering me. But I am little better as Dr. Shankar told me to double the dosage Aripiprazole (20 MG) and CITALOPRAM to 40 MG its helping . As I feel little hopeful and i get in writing response for fun only. My suicidal thoughts are getting to least level. I get tired being depressed. I must warn everybody not to take me seriously as just entertainment to me and no expetation of entertaining any other.
Indian railway is good and still working with steam engines, disel engine, electric all combined is amazing circus to run and carry 20 million people per day. They have spoilt poor Indians and by paying nothing railways infrastructure is going down, rakes look old, all old refurbished disel and Elec. M Uints all in good conditions. Need to go. Thans everybody and good luck

Harward is forward - nice slogan.

ahmedmadani Janaab,
Why do I get a feeling that you have another NIC on Chowk?
Anyways, FYI, Benazir Bhutto Mohtarma went to Radcliffe, not Harvard. Now they are merged.

I thought that Gandhis and Bachan kids went to BU not Harvard. Maybe Rahul Gandhi went to Harvard.

There is really no connections here at Harvard. Only good connections are with the pleaseure of working with famous persons. I remember once a case study was being taught by Jack Welch and he was invited. It was nice to see famous people.

Mr. Dilliwallah..... Thanks for wring article.
You should not get disturbed by strange comments as Inadia/ Pakistan is full of loosers and damn poor miserable. For them you success is crime they are only excited and depressed by envy jalosy and greed.
The salary paid for Harward seems very good and other good thing is you do not hyave to take tough IIT entrance exam. If you can take loan you can go to Harward college. Also its better to be in company of powerful people. My prime minister Mrs Bhutto was there as well as royal prince of India and Future prime minister of India Mrs Rahul Gandhi educated there. So moving in proper circle is better than just studying.
BY taking exam it self the IITIANS are ellite and there is noting wrong every body wants to be like that. Beacuse rejecting 99.98% they are making a caste of smart people which is against general social ethos of everybody is unique. Also making money is important. I am disagreement with Prof Saminsha. Only money is key to get ahead. I need to go as some problem it looks. Cats fighting may kill each other/ old male cat/ Bye now later at night if no sleep.

WOW
We have havard chowkie among us.I am so,very proud of his presence that I am unable to move my head up to read this article further.Just I am so,very nervous...oh,gosh,How can i handle this Havard educated chowkie ??He is,too,brilliant for an ignorant like me.........

#49 by Zeena on July 3, 2005 9:13pm PT

We`ve also got people like you...so i guess it all levels out...

delhiwalla #46: ``I can assure you one thing no matter where you are in the world(with some exceptions), anybody who is a B. TECH from any IIT in India from any branch would be hired at the drop of a hat.......I have seen a Chemical Engg from IIT Delhi(not very high in the scale) being hired by IBM with a starting salary of $120 base + bonus with no IT experience, except some progamming skills in his area of expertise.``

I cannot agree with this.

There is no university in the world, of any type, whose graduate will be hired at the drop of a hat. I have done an awful lot of hiring for a lot of companies. We always interviewed candidates, then selected and rejected them. No one came in, ``at the drop of a hat.`` We rejected candidates from MIT, Harvard, etc. As well as IIT. In fact, I remember rejecting a candidate with a Ph.D from Harvard, and one with a BS from MIT (with seven years of experience), and selecting one with a degree from Jawaharlal Nehru (?) university, in their place..........I remember rejecting a Pakistani wtih a Ph.D from Boston University, and hiring one with an M.Sc. from Pakistan`s Punjab university in his place.

This was not the normal trend, but it did happen........Degrees, and the institutions from where they are obtained, at least in my book, are the fourth or fifth criteria. The first few criteria are the candidate`s problem-solving skills, domain knowledge, personality and soft skills........And I have found the top 10-20% from any decent college to be equivalent to those from any other college..........

Only an extremely extremely exceptional candidate, will ever get 120k, with no experience. The person will have to have literally invented something. And not too many people with a B.E. degree can invent anything. It doesn`t matter if he got a degree from the moon. Even the brightest Stanford grads, with double majors, and no experience that we hired, never made close to 120k.

The highest we ever paid for an inexperienced employee, was a double major in CS and economics, from Stanford, with one year experience. We paid him 80-85k. Even this was, because it was the peak of the .com boom, and it was a startup with almost unlimited funding. And the candidate was exceptional, with an excellent personality.

We hired an IIT grad with 4 Masters degree (yes 4!!) - two in Chemical Engineering, one it CS and and MBA, and over 10 years of software development experience. He was hired at 120k, with a quite a few stock options...........Both these guys worked directly for me.......Neither ever complained about their salary..........

Kaisa cartoon log aajkal Harvard jaate hai. Maybe I should app as well.

Khamkwa, I must apologise for calling your pi$$-piece the worst written on chowk in recent times. This one makes yours read like TS Eliot.

:))))

Uh-Oh...Captain Clueless has unleashed his I was a super duper IT businessman advising CIO/VP types on setting up their IT departments and my voluntary relocation to canuckistan was a blow for the US shtick....

seyaaneyaN aakheya aey...``Do not boast about what you can`t justify if asked to``.
may peace find you. :)

delhiwala:

Thanks for sharing your experience. I hope this will encourage more people to share their experiences at their alma mater. I wish you had brought in some more personal experiences, such as the shoe-shining incident.

IITs are an oasis of excellence in higher education in India. Most universities, including the prestigious Delhi University, are going downhill for lack of funds and can barely pay for their staff and faculty.

Holy Moses!
This juvenile fascination with HU commencement. Take a break my friend!

#51(Romair):
I have been active in the US IT business since early 90ies and do know almost all of the major recruiting/consulting companies in East and West Coast.
I am yet to see one, I repeat anyone telling me that an IIT(B TECH) being unemployed. I am only talking B. TECH(IIT) course not PHD, not M.TECH or anything else, anyone who cleared IITJEE(Joint Entrance Examination) for a B.TECH course.

I am serious about this it sounds like that you are in recruiting business. Please let me know if what I am saying is untrue.

As far as MIT/Harvard is concerned you are right, I have personally rejected MIT and Harvard students in the interviews when hiring myself due to some shortcomings or lack of experience in a particular area of expertise.

One more college that is high in the ranking in the world is BITS Pilani(Rajasthan), though I have seen BITS grads not being hired for 2 positions in my career.

Re: # 59 Good excuse. The typo is there even in your intro, actually there are a couple more. And there is something called `proof-reading`, all Harvard grads should be impelled to do it i suppose.
peace

Re: # 59 Forgot to mention, your piece is a good read on the whole. Keep them coming, but i`d re-assert on the importance of proof-reading, do not forget it next time; it is essential for the credibility and overall appeal of any writing i believe.

Re: # 58
Mr. Khamkhwa AKA MR. Choudhry:
I do like you when you are sober and behaving sincerely.

Where did you see my typo? Please ignore it. Most of the time I am working on my Treo and I do things very fast and chances are that I make big time typing mistakes.

when the end product of an indian IIT and harvard does not know the difference between ``there`` and ``their``...then it`s better to send your child to a community college... :(

Re: # 66
Generally speaking there are no dumb students at American Universities otherwise they wont make it to completion. Students are constantly graded with assignments and term papers. This system is still not very prevalent in Indian Universities.

There are some so called avg intelligence, not too rich people on Tutition Assistance programs that I saw at Harvard. For e.g from Private scholarships or endowments, sponsorships etc.

What is your point?
I always feel that you enjoy disproving others if they disagree with your reasoning.

As far as elitism of IIT/IAS is concerned, I observered it by meeting and interacting with them. There is no way to benchmark this statement India is known for Sahib-doms and elitism.

Re: # 63
Delhiwala, I am talking about non-brilliant, non-rich people. Not super rich dumasses. Keeping that in mind, can you elaborate more on your claim that IITs are more `elitist` than Harvard et al?

Re: # 61
probably none.
Like I said before, if you are mediocre like me then you can make it there.

Delhiwala,
How many non-brilliant non-rich students do you see in Harvard?

Khams,

Community college students KNOW the difference b/n ``there`` and ``their``...lets not drag them into Delheewallah`s atrocious grammar....

#57 by delhiwala on July 4, 2005 7:54am PT

you`re wasting your time with capt clueless...he`ll run his usual i`m a super-duper IT guy spiel..fact of the matter is, he doesn`t know java from a latte...

What is this? A kangaroo court? Delhiwala has a right to say what he believes in. You may not agree with him, but that does not mean attacking him for saying his piece in his own style.Mr. Delhiwala, please keep writing. Practice makes perfect.

Why so many people so jealous of poor Mr.Delhiwala ? I know he is from Harvard. But he is a human too. I mean...why so much hatred and anger in this world ? Can`t we all just get along ? The Harvardwallahs as well as the ghatiwallahs.......let us all hold hands and sing >>

We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So lets start giving
Theres a choice we`re making
We`re saving our own lives
its true we`ll make a better day
Just you and me

There comes a time when we hear a certain call
When the world must come together as one
There are people dying
and its time to lend a hand to life
There greatest gift of all

We cant go on pretending day by day
That someone, somewhere will soon make a change
We are all a part of Gods great big family
And the truth, you know,
Love is all we need

[Chorus:]
We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So lets start giving
Theres a choice we`re making
We`re saving our own lives
its true we`ll make a better day
Just you and me

Send them your heart so they`ll know that someone cares
And their lives will be stronger and free
As God has shown us by turning stones to bread
So we all must lend a helping hand

[Chorus:]
We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So lets start giving
Theres a choice we`re making
We`re saving our own lives
its true we`ll make a better day
Just you and me

When you`re down and out, there seems no hope at all
But if you just believe theres no way we can fall
Let us realize that a change can only come
When we stand together as one

[Chorus:]
We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So lets start giving
Theres a choice we`re making
We`re saving our own lives
its true we`ll make a better day
Just you and me

Re: # 72 `` I was born intelligent, education ruined me. `` ;)

Re: # 72 ahmed

``And normally passangers do not like whining drivers as they have -ve attitude so they do not get paid tip as they are not pleasant and do not rush and open door fast for passanger to come out. Lots MBAs from usa are Lafangas``

i found this very funny .....keep writing your posts are really hilarious.

Re: # 88

Khabutarbazi is in decline in Karachi due to congustion of people. One thing necessary for flying ( Udanake liye) is free space where they can fly and come back. There are no places left for Khabutars. Ideally It should be along a creek or river where Place has no material value. ( Its not possible to rent for placing and tending your birds. River Malir banks can be ideal place as birds like to make few rounds over place get height and they go hugging the land almost like fighter planes avoiding radars and they just pull up themself to get height to avoud bridges. Its thrilling to see the good team of these birds and its addictive and I was and still addict. Also we need people who have good money and lots of time to tend and look after them. Areal Khabutarbaz atleast spends 6 hours at that place. In todays fast world people have no time and money. The real estate has really put dent on this hobby. As no open spaces are left as earlier times. Also the need feed ( which consists of dals, wheat, sorgham, mooth is becoming very costly.). It still great fun to control and send once flock and specially during beginning of running season with many young birds first time and at first fights ( mixing) real Bajiwalla like me is as much concerned as fate of India/Pakistan atom war. I really use to get tension when good young bird is missing after first flight its like missing your daughter. And it so great joy see your young trained birds missing finally suddenly appearing in sky and gravitating to your place. Its just like in classical music after initial AAlap the singer starts picking up bols and goes on Pakkad and your ears feel joy. Then you remark this young bird has promise I asways said and then we discuss what may have happened why he didnot depart and start split at proper time .
There are always stories traded about such things and one remenescences about loss of your favorite leader bird hitting some fixed object in River etc.

Mr. ASO1 I do not want to go to much in that as we are talking about important things like Harward or IIT college. IT wrong and imappropriate when people are discussing big problems or topics. If you need really good Khabutors I know people who can sell some Khabutoors with ``Rings`` in eyes ( smart intelligent leader birds). I have seen Imported Ring `` Nilas`` from Hyderbad Deccan/ India and they are great birds. They have great leadership in grazing flights and quite good size and big nosal feature.

Sorry really This is little things compared to big colleges and You should try for Harward or IIT or any us college.
Good luck

Re: # 72

Madani Sahib:

Glad to know that you are feeling better. Please keep writing/posting here. Are you still in to Kabutarbazi?

Re: # 69 I agree with you Mr.Romair generally more you study more you become foolish. In Karachi and lahore many physic and Chemistry MSc are driving cabs and they have wasted so many years in going to college and burden on parents and then they blame parents. Too much education is not good as it creates mental impotency. He cries for job and blame parents and governments. Like if one is not educated then you can start driving cab as soon as you can make money and happy. Educated half employed or underemployed people have to work as uneducated but they have attitude problem they whine all time as they want to find fault with some body and not with himself. There was lahore college management MBA lamenting on TV for no job for him. I am sure also in our mirror country on downside has lots of unemployed whining PhD amd MBAs and IT grads amd IITIANs also driving cabs and lorries all over India in cities like bombay and delhi etc.
And normally passangers do not like whining drivers as they have -ve attitude so they do not get paid tip as they are not pleasant and do not rush and open door fast for passanger to come out. Lots MBAs from usa are Lafangas. They go to usa and do some MBA course of 4th rate co9llege compared to Lahore or Karachiand they work as managers in rental car agencies and night shift supervisors. And when they come to get married back to karachi ( locals can not be deceived) talk as if they are real managers as in pakistan who can hire and fire and rich. Poor boys and girls marry such half educated us people at great disadvantage. They have bad attitude as they only drink beer in Karachi saying water is bad and too much heat humidity while in Usa they drinkm simple tap water. They just want to harras and use other peoples money, they do not have to pay then drink beer under pretext of bad water.
Also I do not believe IIT can get 120,000 /12x60 =600,000 Pakistani dollars (rupees per months) its not possible is all hype. Otherwise all world boys and girls will line up at IIT. IIT is hype just like any thing. We need to IIT stuff and move to great education institutions through out our world. Every body can understand when I say our world means all ``stans``(central asia) and arab mainlands and far east really 54 members of IOC.
Generally getting tired of politics of criticism on this newspaper and all Indians then Iranians , afghans, chineses turks, Morrocans etc. Time has come to lots of Indian contribution like we have -ve list for Imports from India. Our others friends find no point in coming and contributing if all Indians are roaminhg here and critic as if there is no tomorrow and they find all indocentric. Editors should invite contribution from real friends and brother countris than our -ve image the Indians. Hope good articles on how to pick up good companies on KSE, gas pipe line, and all real no india centric stuff or we appear as fools.
Good luck everybody.

Saminashah #: “Community college students KNOW the difference b/n ``there`` and ``their``...lets not drag them into Delheewallah`s atrocious grammar....”

“If you want to work for Steve Jobs, go to college. If you want to be Steve Jobs, drop out.”

“Stanford University graduates were hit with an unlikely commencement message on Sunday. Jobs, founder of both Apple Computer and Pixar Studios, told the nearly 5,000 graduates that dropping out of college was one of his best decisions ever. Jobs said dropping out gave him more time to take courses in things like calligraphy. And to make a bazillion dollars.”

If one carries out a quick analysis of some of the biggest business leaders in the world, one could almost make an argument that the true qualification that is required is to either quit college or go to a community college. There is an interesting book called the Millionaire next door, which highlights some interesting facts about Millionaires, and how many of them are only high-school grads……….

Bill Gates never completed his degree at Harvard. Michael Dell didn’t complete his in Texas. Steve Ballmer dropped out of Stanford Business School. Larry Ellison of Oracle used to be a bum, with no college degree. Steve Jobs dropped out of Reed College…………Ted Turner was expelled from Brown University. Collen Powell, failed in one academic program after another.

Prince Waleed-bin-Talaal, rated the second best investor in the world, and fifth richest man in the world, by Fortune, is a graduate of a community college in San Jose. An Indian entrepreneur, I am subcontracting for right now, has around 50 people deployed on a project. Each one of us is significantly more academically qualified than him. He has a community college degree, yet pays all our salaries !!

Romair,

Indeed. :)

Hey Delhiwala,
I attended my graduation ceremony on Saturday, so, this feels so apt at the moment :)
Only real annoying part was the guest speaker who spoke on `trade liberalisation-multilateralism V. regionalism`, soo strange!! I missed the shit school speeches where everyone would tell us what strong ladies we could be :)

``Brazilians and Chilians``.. i see Brazilians everywhere..from basura cleaners to franchise sub-shop owners. But who are these chilians? Are you refering to Mexicans, who eat a lot of chiles?

Dillidost,
Very well-written and interesting article. I enjoyed your constant questioning of what you observe and how you attempt to provide rational answers.
I found the following very amusing:

{``You could still see some old timers hitting on young girl ushers who did not seem to mind the advances from old men. Frankly I never understood why they had 18 year old girls as ushers for every reunion tent.``}

Good job!

Salim Ahmed Chauhan

MR shobig AKA Khamkhwa:
Even if my English is bad, so who gives a flying ...k.
There are many students at Harvard whose English is not that good, does`nt mean that they will be kicked out or cannot be brilliant.

Your upbringing was probably in a society that has taught you that English is a upper strata language and in order to go to Harvard you have to know very good English. If that were the case Japaneese and South American students would never get good grades.

Do a reality check.

English is very important to know as the medium of instruction is English. Also, I am not going to write novels or be journalist.

Re: # 76
If I remember correctly, percentage of middle class and poor students in IITs is much higher than the same in Harvard/Cambridge etc. (Please compare the tution fees of IITs with Harvard/Cambridge). Do you agree with this fact or not? If you do, then how do IITs become more elitist than Harvard?

Secondly, If YOU THINK that IIT educated students become elitist AFTER they graduate from that institute, that still does NOT make IITs THEMSELVES elitist or promoters of elitism. Please look up the definition of elitism. They may become elitist in their LATER lives, but in no way do you have to have an elite background to get into IITs. In fact, most of the students in IITs are from middle class. The rest are from poor classes. The rich elite kids attend Harvard and Cambridge because their daddies can afford it, whether the kids have brains or not.

This is what a harvard grad has written??.I shall not send my children to harvard.To community college it is.And they are getting their wordly education on the streets of Mumbai.No b*llshit here, people.

#81 hmm i see, no more ``chillians`` to harvard then? heh heh..

i did know one harvard grad..he was even in the crimson crew, who drove a cab. he was an english major, and could only get a secy type job...for wall-street trainees with english major you needed some family influence he claimed. so he was enrolled in big-rig school while driving a cab, since it paid better than secy jobs, and more fun. like all lit majors he was collecting material for his great novel ;-)

Re: # 87
You are learning quickly from Salim ;)

GREAT JOB DILLIDOST!
:)

Re: # 92
Either you have ADD or you are just trying to score a point that is not clear to me.

Finale:
In my opinion based on my experiences, an IIT B. Tech graduate in India, when in job can be expected to behave more elitist/snobbish than an American graduate from Harvard or some other so called Ivy leagues. This could be due to cultural differences also. Of course there are exceptions to this statement.

Re: # 91
What an idiot !
So if they should not be called IITians then what else can you call them? And by the way, aren`t harvard graduates are called harvard graduates for rest of their lives? And aren`t yale graduates called yalies? So what is so elite about an IITian being called IITian?

Re: # 90
You and others have tried to steer the conversation with a twist.
It is obvious that sudents themselves might not be elitist but once they graduate they are called IITians etc. That is where the elitism comes from.

#76 by delhiwala on July 4, 2005 7:37pm PT


As far as elitism of IIT/IAS is concerned, I observered it by meeting and interacting with them.


You seem to be moving the goalposts..Now you`ve added IAS to the mix...anyway..Did you interact with them before of after they got into the IIT...if they were snobbish SOBs before they got in, you`d have a point...

Fact is, a lot of average middle class students work their tails off to get into the IITs..the IITs are their ticket out of the middle class...

Same thing with the NBA...lots of poor black kids work their tails off to make it in the NBA...does the NBA promote elitism? the NHL sure as heck does...not many kids from the hood who can afford the gear and the facilities....