A Moment of Silence

#31 Ozer

Dear Ozer,

Because of some little-understood reasons, my interactions appear to make many people mad, so there is a chance that this could make other interactors madder still. However, in fairness, and since others have chosen to do it, I must also make a good-faith attempt to provide my comments on your work itself, instead of what you call ``wisecracks``.

1. In spite of your evident and considerable shortcomings in the two areas of looks and talents (both of which are supposedly highly valued commodities in the movie industry), I must give you credit for your quality of persistence. It will be unfair to demonize somebody who can keep trying again and again and not yield an inch, no matter how utterly idiotic that person looks (believe me, I know what I am talking about). You appear to make an attempt to at least answer some of the questions that are thrown your way. The fact that you have dared to address mine from earlier indicates that you are VERY courageous!

2. Not being a literary person, my main complaint with your work is as follows – there appears to be a lack of conviction in your words. My janitorial skills tell me that these words are not quite genuine. The lines of the poem are long (too long), the subject matter too diffused, and every one of your words appears to have been contrived to meet some particular objective. Real poetry (at least the way this janitor sees it) must flow from the heart – yours does not – in fact it appears to owe its origin to the source which our friend Cayenne often (alas, too often) using his own brand of humor, refers to as “where the sun don’t shine”.

3. In my view, use of multiple nicks to conduct conversations with yourself is a patently fraudulent act (mind it, I have no problem with individuals having several nicks for different occasions), a practice you clearly engage in. It shows utter disrespect for the average intelligence level of your intended audience. The fact is that not only you have done so in the past (and never denied it), you continue to engage in this fraudulent act here too. This indicates that you have a very low opinion of your intended target audiences. This also indicates that you are incapable of changing your “spots”.

4. There is also an utter disregard for the feelings and sensitivity of others. For example, your interactor’s page, while revealing a very limited part of you (mostly superficial details) uncovers parts of other people whose concerns regarding such exposures were never taken into consideration by you. This reveals you as a selfish individual who is so consumed by his own needs of the hour that he is incapable of thinking of others.

5. There also appears to be an element of cowardice in this work. You put up a long disclaimer-type introduction up front, as if you anticipate the adverse reaction and are trying your hardest to pre-empt it. If this piece of work were genuine in nature, you would say what came to your heart and not be wishy-washy about it! Your selective responses indicate a similar pattern – you chose to answer some questions but not others. For example, in #31, you chose to respond to the part of my comment regarding Saddam (although you completely ignored the part about “where were you?”) you skipped the part about Kashmir – which would have been a more contentious topic for this crowd.

Since I need to return to my janitorial duties at this point, let me cut this short as follows.

In summary, the beauty of any poem – even this “poem”, must and can only be judged by the proverbial eye of the beholder. As I pointed out in an earlier interact – to find a measure of beauty in this poem, one must have to be really blind, and I’ve a feeling that others may agree with that assessment.

Having said all that, it’s important to add that (even if some of the words the janitor uses are tough) I always wish everyone well, including (and perhaps especially) yourself.

Sincerely,
BeeJay.

Re: # 1

Cayenne wrote ``If the middle east muslims believe in their causes there are other means to pursue them.Not by formenting terrorism.Screw them all.``

Do you mean all the Muslims Cayenne ?

Re: # 33

Dear Beejay,

Finally you have dispensed your opinion, in your own unique style, on the ``subject matter`` of the poem. Fair enough it is not your cup of ``chai`` and I respect that. Anyways I would still seek to ask you the question to a previous comment:

`` And where were you, O great, great knight
When Saddam’s thumb crushed rank and file``

Beejay by making the above comment are you legitimising the attrocities that are ravaging Iraqi civilians under US soldiers post-Saddam ? Seems so to me....and are you saying that what happened in Abu Ghraib is any better than Saddam`s regime ?

RSVP. Thanks.

Dear Ozer,

I read this poem again and again... and some interacts,specially of BeeJay(as he mentioned my name in few of them)in an effort to understand why it offended some of the readers.Even on UP,some people mentioned that they find it hard to understand what you wanted to convey.

First about the content.You have touched a very pertinent topic...one of the major problem which the humanity is facing today.Its very courageous of you to speak about it in the present times when we all in general try to just be in our own shells and pretend not to see anything.To my mind,the problem people are having is to ignore the symbolism and see it in more concrete way.I dont blame them entirely for that because this happens when in a poem we mention specific events,facts and particular people.It becomes difficult to differentiate between the news paper type reports and subtlities of poetry.

Secondly,about the technical aspects of poem.Some verses are too long to be accommodated in poem and preserve the symbolic aspect.It blurrs the underlying message which is in the later part of the poem.Till reaching there,the reader becomes opinionated and ignore the wider message.

Some appear to be more interested in the poet rather than the poem.This may be because of fist and second aspects which I mentioned above or may be because of their personal curiosity to know more about you.

To be fair to BeeJay,nothing escapes his microscopic scrutiny.I agree with his observation that this ppoem does not appear to be coming stright out of heart.It seems,you have worked consciously on it,but I am sure the critism will be taken constructively and will help to improve your poetic skills.

Kulsum Beig you accuse this author of political myopia yet how can you disregard the glaring chariots of fire stoked by Uncle Sam and its cohorts who are refueling the flames of racism?

The US Patriot Act is merely one case in point. Political quiescence may portend to the norm for you Kulsum and human rights a romantic idealism to your ilk, yet it is your demagoguery of the status quo that impels an uphill battle bringing all moral consciousness into dishonorable disrepute.

Public information on illegal detention post 9/11 remains scant. It is brazenly clear that many POW`s were forcibly held incommunicado. Muslim detainees suffered physical and verbal abuse from despotic guards under the cruelest conditions of solitary confinement and the wearing of shackles during non-contact visits.

In Afghanistan hundreds of innocent Muslims were massacred in Qala-i-Jhangi. Despite international humanitarian law yelling for a moratorium on the use of cluster-weapons. Both Uncle Sam and Her Majesty`s government denied Amnesty International’s request for an investigation into the incidents at Qala-i-Jhangi fort.

A number of banana republics sold all their oranges short and jumped onto the ‘anti-terrorist’ bandwagon to stifle political dissent. Since it is de rigueur. Legally definitions of ‘terrorism’ are hazardously vague. The terrorist attacks fuelled a climate of hysteria garnering a useful cloak behind which to make inroads to curb the ambillical chord of democratic rights and civil liberties.

Here where I live in the UK, the “Blairite” government passed scantily clad ‘emergency’ legislation which provided for detention of foreign nationals without charge or trial, thereby tailoring a nebulous shadow criminal justice system.

The Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 cataclysmically contravenes Article 5(t) of the European Convention on Human Rights and Article 9 of the ICCPR [International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights] in order to allow for indefinite detention. Under the Act, the Secretary of State may order such detention, without charge or trial and without recourse to judicial review.

Kulsum what this poem attempts to portray is the hypocrisy and selectivity of governments and their handmaiden: the media. For example why do those who condemn human rights violations in Iraq negligently not protest against human rights violations by Russian troops in Chechnya, or by the authorities in Uzbekistan against Muslims who peacefully practice their faith outside the state apparatus?

Dear Ozer Khalid

If you had hidden anything deep in this poem, you hid it too deep for this reader. Please also write something for us prosaic unpoets and not-so-profound thinkers.

Re: # 36

Dear Dr Lokraj

Your noteworthy points are well-received. Especially when you pin-point that ``Some appear to be more interested in the poet rather than the poem.``

The interest, if any, should only be geared towards the ``poem``. Its ``content``. And nothing else.

Kulsum Beig you accuse this author of political myopia yet how can you disregard the glaring chariots of fire stoked by Uncle Sam and its cohorts who are refueling the flames of racism?

The US Patriot Act is merely one case in point. Political quiescence may portend to the norm for you Kulsum and human rights a romantic idealism to your ilk, yet it is your demagoguery of the status quo that impels an uphill battle bringing all moral consciousness into dishonorable disrepute.

Public information on illegal detention post 9/11 remains scant. It is brazenly clear that many POW`s were forcibly held incommunicado. Muslim detainees suffered physical and verbal abuse from despotic guards under the cruelest conditions of solitary confinement and the wearing of shackles during non-contact visits.

In Afghanistan hundreds of innocent Muslims were massacred in Qala-i-Jhangi. Despite international humanitarian law yelling for a moratorium on the use of cluster-weapons. Both Uncle Sam and Her Majesty`s government denied Amnesty International’s request for an investigation into the incidents at Qala-i-Jhangi fort.

A number of banana republics sold all their oranges short and jumped onto the ‘anti-terrorist’ bandwagon to stifle political dissent. Since it is de rigueur. Legally definitions of ‘terrorism’ are hazardously vague. The terrorist attacks fuelled a climate of hysteria garnering a useful cloak behind which to make inroads to curb the ambillical chord of democratic rights and civil liberties.

Here where I live in the UK, the “Blairite” government passed scantily clad ‘emergency’ legislation which provided for detention of foreign nationals without charge or trial, thereby tailoring a nebulous shadow criminal justice system.

The Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 cataclysmically contravenes Article 5(t) of the European Convention on Human Rights and Article 9 of the ICCPR [International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights] in order to allow for indefinite detention. Under the Act, the Secretary of State may order such detention, without charge or trial and without recourse to judicial review.

Kulsum what this poem attempts to portray is the hypocrisy and selectivity of governments and their handmaiden: the media. For example why do those who condemn human rights violations in Iraq negligently not protest against human rights violations by Russian troops in Chechnya, or by the authorities in Uzbekistan against Muslims who peacefully practice their faith outside the state apparatus?

Re: # 34

OzerK....

Y`know man, ye are like a munchkin, stirring up trouble everywhere ye goeth.Don`t draw me into this sordid stuff on a saturday.This day is reserved for my sacred pursuits of boozing and getting laid, which i single handedly pursue through to the end.Other days i would debate endlessly with you.I MEANT middle-eastern muslims ONLY.

Indian muslims form the second largest grouping of muslims in the islamic world , yet they have not stooped low to conquer.They have class.IM`s may have other peeves, but not one has been involved with terrorism either outside or in Jammu and Kashmir.Our mullah`s traipse through the world without let or hindrance.I know many innocent muslims died too on 9/11.These terrorist bastards will sacrifice anybody for their nefarious ends.

I gotta go, and i hope your weekend is all good.Cheers.

``Muslim detainees suffered physical and verbal abuse from despotic guards under the cruelest conditions of solitary confinement and the wearing of shackles during non-contact visits. ``

Terrorist suspects in GITMO enjoy comfort and dignity compared to political prisoners in Muslim countries like Saudi, Iran, Syria etc. Heck, there would be no need for a rendition policy (sending them to Egypt) if we could torture these bastards here in the states.

``In Afghanistan hundreds of innocent Muslims were massacred in Qala-i-Jhangi. Despite international humanitarian law yelling for a moratorium on the use of cluster-weapons. Both Uncle Sam and Her Majesty`s government denied Amnesty International’s request for an investigation into the incidents at Qala-i-Jhangi fort. ``

Are you going to write a poem on ``innocent Nazis`` killed in the firebombing of Dresden? The ``innocent Muslims`` of Qala e Jhangi were all Taliban and they had killed a CIA officer. They were killed after they refused to surrender.

``Here where I live in the UK, the “Blairite” government passed scantily clad ‘emergency’ legislation which provided for detention of foreign nationals without charge or trial, thereby tailoring a nebulous shadow criminal justice system. ``

Keeping in mind the number of British Muslims arrested/killed in Kashmir, Afghanistan, Iraq etc as well as the arrest of Islamic terrorists in the UK itself makes the need for such legislation mandatory.

The Patriot Act has not affected a single American citizen and the US is under no obligation to give the same degree of protection to non Citizens.

of rhyme and reason..........

............ sometimes there are things that are bereft of rhyme but have some reason, and sometimes there are lines that rhyme and are pleasing to the ear, but have no reason, and then there is this ....... this, a thing with no rhyme or reason ..........

............ by now, i think, everyone agrees that ozer is no line manager - that is, a poet - so let`s see if there is any reason behind this garbage without meter, form or rythm ..........

............he starts off with a mealymouthed expression of sympathy for the victims of 9/11 and then launches into a diatribe against the west and its ``crimes`` against the poor muslims wo were simply sitting around in their suicide belts enjoying the bamiyan buddahs being tumbled down before moving on to a fun filled evening of beheadings and hangings at the kabul stadium .......... he talks about the plight of the poor palestinians - everyone talks about these idiots - conveniently forgetting that they had everthing that they are now asking for in 1967 but chose to gamble it away because they were greedy and just plain stupid ............. then, his lament moves on to kashmir and ramadi and falluja as if there was some kind of a link beween them - what is the connection, except that they are all inhabited by followers of an insidious ideology that is at war with itself and everything else ? ............. and just to show his even handedness, he throws in a few lines about argentina and mexico and somalia - uh ? ......... or ``duh?`` as they say in more intellectual circles ...................

.......... once again, i ask the chowk staff to ban ozer from this forum and pull this horrible piece of gibberish before the children see it ................


p.s. i also suggest that all ``poetry`` should be reviewed by temporal and saminasha before being posted

ozer,

a good idea to illustrate the sheer hypocrisy of the so-called `defenders of freedom`--it has always been thus: one white man`s life is considered 100 x more precious than that of the rest of the world--especially that of muslims.

3000 odd people died in 9/11 and the whole world and their chacha went into paroxysms of mourning yet no one cares about the millions of muslims killed before and since. 60, 000 civilians in Iraq already by conservative estimates. that alone is 20 times the number of 9/11. the ba-ba blacksheeps and uncle toms and mental slaves and house negroes are crying even today because a few thousand of their master`s people got killed but they don`t care about the millions of third world people being killed.

(not that 9/11 wasn`t wrong--it WAS wrong but that doesn`t justify the rest of the killing. those whose kalimah is la ilaha il America (ppl like hamidm and others on this forum) are crying tears even now ; the lives of those whose kalimah is la ilaha il Allah Muhammadur Rasul Allah (sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) do not count for these baysharam people...

#8, scout {``this whole `moment of silence,` `month of silence,` `lifetime of silence` ``}

IS IT TOO MUCH TOO ASK THAT YOU REMAIN SILENT FOR A MOMENT, ANY MOMENT?

#35 Ozer

Sorry, I’m in a hurry, so quickly….

I should have known that you’d ignore virtually all of my legitimate questions – not answer a single one and instead simply harp on what you had already parroted earlier. If you wish to salvage the slightest bit of dignity out of this worthless exercise, you may consider responding to items (1)-(5) in #33.

The question you ask (in #35) in your own unique style (or perhaps not so unique around here, since it’s really accurately described by the term moronic) is highly rhetorical. The speciously obvious answer to your rhetorical question is of course – one atrocity does not justify another. The asinine assumption that super-turkeys (and I mean no disrespect to the country) like you (and third-rate bogus dimwit writers like Farzana) imply is that U.S. intervention in Iraq rises to that definition of an atrocity – a statement so absurd that in most cases, there is no need to answer it. However, I have no problem in giving you a fitting answer in such simple and lucid terms that even you, at your microscopic level of intelligence, can understand. I would like to hold off on my comments on that, since putting them here would partially preempt my next i-log (which I am currently drafting). If this piece of your garbage is still around anywhere in the vicinity of FP then, I’ll make sure to paste in extracts from that. So, hold on with baited breath, and continue with this pseudo-intellectual master-bay-shun, in which, like all such activities, the pleasure is strictly one-sided.

#36 Dr. LokRaj
I believe there was an urgent page for your services from the board entitled “Faraz”, which may be of better service to mankind than anything we see here on this crappy piece here.

Re: # 44

naqsh,

...... i guess you didn`t hear bush say, ``we must fight them there so that we don`t have to fight them here``........... i, for one, subscribe to that logic especially since i just planted some petunias this morning - here ........ besides, the barbaric people of those god forsaken places need to be civilized - the world cannot afford to let them languish in the seventh century ..........

#26 by hamidm2:

[ i am really surprised farzana fell for this hoax - i always thought she had more brains than all the men on chowk put together .............]

Well, while I sincerely hope you (and just you for now) do not alter your opinion about my intelligence, I will still go ahead and ask: In what way have I fallen for ``this hoax``? Is he (heck, it could be a she for all I care) a hoax only because he is saying something different from your world-view? Can both not co-exist even if they be at odds with each other?

In my earlier post I had quoted Woody Allen who said that 9/11 was too small an event. Would you ask the oh-so-Manhattan Allen the queries you pose here? If you feel that this poet`s religious leanings are reflected in this work, then the responses reveal the opposite leanings too. How much objectivity is there then?

I am aware that you have a different take, am aware of it since the day you responded to my poem, or `poem` posted a day after the disaster on the same theme. Your point is valid from one perspective, but there is another one. Since I hold more or less the same views as expressed here (and expressed by me earlier), I cannot possibly be taken in by any `hoax`.

About the literary gaps, I already voiced my opinion...I am surprised at your comment, ``.......... once again, i ask the chowk staff to ban ozer from this forum and pull this horrible piece of gibberish before the children see it ................``

Children are wise. It is the juvenile adults that need to be watched.

PS: There are four new poems put up by Chowk for your reading pleasure!
- - -
#27,29:

Ozer:

Constructive criticism is all you will get from me...and I do feel your response #28 was not quite in order.

[``Both are hunters with hungry intent``? Why kill your own lines?
FV sometimes a stab to one`s own style is uplifting. It puntures any traces of ego.]

If the ego is identity, I see no reason for you to puncture it. You have to decide whether reaching out or renunciation is your goal. It is clear you wish to get your message across, so forget about stabbing your style, and perhaps start some pruning?

[”Also, the use of some words in Caps appeared self-conscious- the flow should be its own emphasis.”
If anything they were “sub-conscious”]

If you wish to raise the conscience, then you have to be conscious.

[Ebbing towards a “Dead Poet`s Society” ?]

Indeed. For the ghosts, the past, are then not dug away or distilled to fall in designated heaps and tagged with labels that flutter like pennants. Without rhyme or reason, as the saying goes...