Asif Naqshbandi June 21, 2005
#1 Posted by kaurasach on June 21, 2005 1:06:27 pm
Only recently I read that Anarkali may be fiction? Why would someone raise a monument to a fictious legend.
I think it is based on a real character which was muddled and exaggerated over time.
I think it is based on a real character which was muddled and exaggerated over time.
#2 Posted by Naqshbandi on June 21, 2005 3:22:04 pm
The play translated is a fiction--but based on what may be historical fact, embellished as all legend is.
#3 Posted by temporal on June 21, 2005 4:29:51 pm
asif:
itni mehnat karnay kay lyay shukria:)
rgds
t
itni mehnat karnay kay lyay shukria:)
rgds
t
#4 Posted by mdk on June 21, 2005 9:46:31 pm
They say Akbar himself had sexual relationship with Anarkali and he could not tolerate his son having similar invovlment with her.
#6 Posted by rahulmal on June 22, 2005 3:48:58 am
Asif,
Good one! Could you point to the original in Roman or Devanagari script.
Is `Shadow of God` ZilleElahi or ZilleSubhani?
Good one! Could you point to the original in Roman or Devanagari script.
Is `Shadow of God` ZilleElahi or ZilleSubhani?
#7 Posted by patwari on June 22, 2005 3:57:40 am
xcellent Asif naqshbandi...this was sort of different than some of your last stuff I have read on this site. very detailed but remaining simple.
#8 Posted by dost_mittar on June 22, 2005 7:30:33 am
Asif:
A true labour of love! For those who are not familiar with the detalied background, who asked Dilaram to spike Anarkali`s drink and why?
A true labour of love! For those who are not familiar with the detalied background, who asked Dilaram to spike Anarkali`s drink and why?
#9 Posted by echoboom on June 22, 2005 7:56:34 am
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#10 Posted by Naqshbandi on June 22, 2005 11:07:27 am
Re: # 8
dost-mittar: the reason for Dilaram (pronounced Dil-aaraam: Heart-Repose) wanting to spike Anarkali`s drink is because she was herself in love with Saleem; also before Anarkali she was the favourite of the Emperor`s affections...hence the reason was jealousy...
***
Echoboom Sahib: Thank you for that wonderfully entertaining history lesson! Indeed our great and glorious heritage is so different from the stereotype...:-)
****
Rahulmal: I cannot find an online version in either Roman, Devnagari or Urdu script; the original book in Urdu is quite easily available from any good Urdu bookseller.
Shadow of God is Zill-e-ilaahi in Urdu and Farsi and DHill al Ilahi Fil `Ard in Arabi: a common title for Mughal emperors.
An `ashiq has written a eulogy for the Sultan of the Saints, al-Ghawth al Azam Shaykh Sayyid Abd al Qadir al Jilani using this phrase:
Qad-e-bay-saaya zill-e-kibriyaa hai
Tu iss bay-saaya zill ka zill hai Ya Ghawth!
My translation:
His shadowless form [sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam] is the shadow of
the Great Shadow
You are the shadow of that shadowless shadow [sal Allahu alayhi wa
sallam] Ya Ghawth!
dost-mittar: the reason for Dilaram (pronounced Dil-aaraam: Heart-Repose) wanting to spike Anarkali`s drink is because she was herself in love with Saleem; also before Anarkali she was the favourite of the Emperor`s affections...hence the reason was jealousy...
***
Echoboom Sahib: Thank you for that wonderfully entertaining history lesson! Indeed our great and glorious heritage is so different from the stereotype...:-)
****
Rahulmal: I cannot find an online version in either Roman, Devnagari or Urdu script; the original book in Urdu is quite easily available from any good Urdu bookseller.
Shadow of God is Zill-e-ilaahi in Urdu and Farsi and DHill al Ilahi Fil `Ard in Arabi: a common title for Mughal emperors.
An `ashiq has written a eulogy for the Sultan of the Saints, al-Ghawth al Azam Shaykh Sayyid Abd al Qadir al Jilani using this phrase:
Qad-e-bay-saaya zill-e-kibriyaa hai
Tu iss bay-saaya zill ka zill hai Ya Ghawth!
My translation:
His shadowless form [sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam] is the shadow of
the Great Shadow
You are the shadow of that shadowless shadow [sal Allahu alayhi wa
sallam] Ya Ghawth!
#11 Posted by Raw_Dust on June 22, 2005 11:45:54 am
Naqshbandi: this was awesome just for making the effort that you did.
although i think the language could have been translated in a more dated way... in Ulysses, joyce tried these various forms to write the same novel.. there is one chapter that is done in a baroque style.. it almost gives you the feeling that the scenes of the chapter are nothing but a collage of baroque paintings... taj`s beautiful play seems like a series of mughal miniature paintings with special care for detail and classical moseeke...
my favorite scene is the rendezvous of Saleem and Anarkali in the garden .. also Bakhtyar was a funny character...
cheers!
although i think the language could have been translated in a more dated way... in Ulysses, joyce tried these various forms to write the same novel.. there is one chapter that is done in a baroque style.. it almost gives you the feeling that the scenes of the chapter are nothing but a collage of baroque paintings... taj`s beautiful play seems like a series of mughal miniature paintings with special care for detail and classical moseeke...
my favorite scene is the rendezvous of Saleem and Anarkali in the garden .. also Bakhtyar was a funny character...
cheers!
#12 Posted by HP on June 22, 2005 4:10:48 pm
I neither am an expert in Urdu nor write good English. I hesitated to write on this board but I certainly feel that a good translation becomes bad when you do literal translation.
I don’t wanna take things away from Asif and appreciate his effort but here are a few things that I noticed and I feel there is another way to translate them.
So here is my version of a few dialogs.
1.
“Dilaram (whispering to Salim): Prince of the World will you not also reward this dance?”
The prince of the world appears to be the translation of Shahzada-e-Alam. But Alam is not world, it is universe so the correct version should be “the prince of the universe” and that provides the correct reference of the endearment. I think the term of endearment that Akber used mostly was Jaan-e Alam and not Shahzada-e- alam. Alam could be a reference to the personal universe like in my Universe. Since I have not read the play in Urdu, I could be wrong here.
So this dialog should read as:
“The Life of my universe, would you please honor the rendition!” (or the art or the artist)
2.
“Salim (standing up at once): Shadow of God! With your permission, I too would like to reward this dance.”
Zill-e ilahi is not exactly “Shadow of God”. It is a little trickier than that. It would have been better to just use “My Lord” here
My take.
“My Lord, with high regards and I bow to your consent, I present the artist my gratitude.”
3.
“Akbar: Shekhu you have stolen the very words from my mouth!”
My version:
Akber: Shekhu, How nice! You took those words away from me!”
Some more later…Kill me if you want...
#13 Posted by Naqshbandi on June 23, 2005 2:40:10 am
HP sahib; I did toy with the idea of using archaic forms of English for this but then I decided against this for the reason that it would put off many people. Also, I chose to translate literal wherever possible since the greatness of Taj`s play lies in its high-falutin` language and by being literal I wished to convey some of that.
Raw_Dust: you`re welcome.
I`m actually a bit disappointed with the small number of responses!
Raw_Dust: you`re welcome.
I`m actually a bit disappointed with the small number of responses!
#14 Posted by temporal on June 23, 2005 8:01:53 am
asif:
come on, you should know by now;)
the only submissions that get incessant hits and posts are those that mention these trigger words kashmir, hindu, muslim, india, pakistan, jinnah, gandhi, yasser`s obsession, veeresh`s intransigence, ...
here is a test if you do not believe me...
pen something...even incomprehensible gibberish will do (chowk editors pls. forgive me...this is just to drive a point ...am not actually urging him to do it;)...with the following titles and see the hits soar:
* Pork Eating Wine Guzzling Fathers
* Old Man Sleeping Naked With Nieces
* The Drinking Days of the Allama
* Frustrated Allama & His Four Marriages
* Sex and the Prime Minister (you can chose any period and almost any Indian or Pakistani PM)
come on, you should know by now;)
the only submissions that get incessant hits and posts are those that mention these trigger words kashmir, hindu, muslim, india, pakistan, jinnah, gandhi, yasser`s obsession, veeresh`s intransigence, ...
here is a test if you do not believe me...
pen something...even incomprehensible gibberish will do (chowk editors pls. forgive me...this is just to drive a point ...am not actually urging him to do it;)...with the following titles and see the hits soar:
* Pork Eating Wine Guzzling Fathers
* Old Man Sleeping Naked With Nieces
* The Drinking Days of the Allama
* Frustrated Allama & His Four Marriages
* Sex and the Prime Minister (you can chose any period and almost any Indian or Pakistani PM)
#15 Posted by ZahraJ on June 24, 2005 6:56:13 pm
Naqshbandi:
I think I have seen this play during my high school days. Personally, I am not a fan of mughals and their fiascos. Nothing is simply stated. Everything has ornaments around it. I think you should contemplate on art/drama in real life. I am sure you will have a ball.
I think I have seen this play during my high school days. Personally, I am not a fan of mughals and their fiascos. Nothing is simply stated. Everything has ornaments around it. I think you should contemplate on art/drama in real life. I am sure you will have a ball.
#16 Posted by khamkhwa. on June 24, 2005 8:31:18 pm
[Sanober was trained not only as a dancer but in all the arts & crafts military or civil as well. Muslim society were not tainted & tarnished by the backward & uncouth British.]
boomboom...
... a dancer under moghals is respectable yet a dancer under the brits is tarnished...?
boomboom...
... a dancer under moghals is respectable yet a dancer under the brits is tarnished...?
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