Bunty aur Babli: The latest RSS-BJP tango

Subroto/Jang: I am glad you dont feel the need to defend Bose - since he cannot be defended by any any rational means. If you disagree, kindly review #132 and tell if there is anything wrong in what I wrote.

60 posts later, I have yet to see a straight response from any Bose-lover on #132. No one has denied the facts, and no one has acknowledged the logical conclusion. Only angry, emotional responses, clever remarks about ``our handsome meat-eating cousins``, ``counter-insults`` to Jinnah and what not.

I think such emotion is best spared for the brave soldiers of the British Indian Army (hindus, muslims, sikhs) who defended India from the Japanese onslaught. The same soldiers against whom Bose and his turncoats were turned their guns after surrendering to the Japanese. But for those soldiers, and their British and American and Russian and Chinese and countless other comrades from many nationalities who fought and defeated the Japanese and Nazi evil in WWII, India would have been one big slave pit run for the benefit of the Japanese emperor. With Puppet Bose sending monthly reports to them on production figures.

I don`t think Subhash Chandra Bose needs to be defended by anyone here. As Jang has pointed out his place as a legit freedom fighter is assured. And other freedom fighters of low character like Azad, Bhagat Singh, Ram Prasad Bismil, Ashfaqullah, Rajguru and Sukhdev are equally admired. And probably not just by us dark, ugly, head-nodding, heeng smelling types but even by some of our fair, handsome, meat eating cousins.

Farzana #146(also kaalchakra #163)
Well said. Some nations themselves revise and define cultures,explicitly or implicitly,so in time cultures and nations will tend towards one another.Though what I disagree with is that the ``dynamic social mores`` make it incumbent upon the cultures to proactively compete with or attack each other,unless the culture itself has an inherent dominant strain for the same.Culture is a sociological construct which touches everyone in its definition and manifestation, while the nation is a political one.There can be a thin line among what exactly causes strife and the fact these two would influence each other compounds this even further.History tells us that intra cultural strife has been probably more common than inter cultural strife.Besides,taking an example, two radically distinct cultures exist in Canada.But whether Canada goes to war with another country or not depends on political considerations, not cultural.
mohar #154
``Taking pride in the cultural heritage is exactly what is nationalism.``
Lets take the example of separatists in Kashmir and Assam.They are anti-national,arent they?But saying that they are anti-cultural by taking 1947 as the focal point for defining a ``culture``, may be pretty cool from a nationalist point of view, but it is highly revisionist and subjective in nature.They may be as proud of their cultural heritage as any of us.

#186 by tahmed32

a far more obvious explanation would be that jinnah was a british stooge for not supporting QI movement, in which so many indians threw away their careers. i know many of my old relatives did.

overall, pakistanis never really liked bangalis, kale, short etc. so no wonder they have a dim view of S. C. Bose. Maybe they dont teach about bosons either in KU. its no wonder bangaladesh separated.

leaders are liked and revered for some specific quality they exemplify..sacrifice.. e.g. bhagatsingh never achieved anything. so SC Bose has a legit place in indian independence pantheon. i remember watching the movie Upkaar by Manoj Kumar.. in the song `Mere Desh Ki Dharati`` when the words ``Gandhi-Subhash`` came, the whole theatre would stand up. So no HP its not some new BJP thingy..SC Bose has been deemed a legit freedom figher. And Tahmed, he is of good breeding, give it rest.

dm #179 I too think that YLH tends to emphasize personalities too much over ideas and concept. Thus, to me, Gandhi`s personality is not important - but (as I said) the idea of non-violence that he gave to the world is probably the single biggest idea of the 20th century. Similarly, while Jinnah`s personality is not important, the fact that he understood the rising tide of hindu nationalism in India and thus formed Pakistan makes him correctly a revered figure in Pakistan (you may not agree with me on the formation of Pakistan, perhaps).

I beg to differ on Bose - his actions speak louder than words on his stupidity and his low character. As HP rightly points out, he ran to the Nazis/Japs side on the principle of ``the enemy of my enemy is my friend`` - the dumbest philosophy one can have. Also, he must have been pretty stupid to believe that the ``master race`` of nazis could actually win WWII, given the vast resources of the US, UK at the time.

Assuming he had half a brain (a possibility, I will grant you) he would have known that Nazis/Japs were not going to give Indians any freedom. His low character is then demonstrated - he was willing to sell out his people to Nazis/Japs as long as he was made their puppet.

So, whatever way you look at it, Bose was a miserable excuse for a human being.

Re: # 185 HP

See - this is what I was talking about. I gave you some cr@p about the monkey and you put your version of the cr@p on it and threw it back at me. Now we have a conversation going :)

Had I given you something intelligent - you wouldn`t even understand. So there would be no conversation at all. That wouldn`t be fun. After all, that`s what is chowk all about. Having fun with the fools like you.

For that I have to communicate at a level that you can understand. Intelligent talk is way beyond your level. So I don`t give that you. :))

aslam #181 true, 1940 was described as Britain`s darkest hour when Britain stood alone before the Nazi tide (and the US was still debating, and the Stalin had struck a deal with Hitler). But things had only gotten worse by 1942, when Congress thought it was a good time to hit the Brits (i.e. when they were down) with their ``Quit India`` campaign (influenced no doubt by the hindu extremists, although Gandhi and Nehru must bear responsibility as well). To Jinnah`s credit, he did not fall to this level, and was smart enough to realize that (as you put it) compared to the Nazis/Japs, the brits were saints. So, the ``Quit India`` movement was pointless in the sense that the brits would have quit India anyway (after all, with never more than 100,000 british civil and military personnel in the subcontinent, the british could see the writing on the wall once the freedom movement took hold in India). Thus, the only effect the ``Quit India`` movement basically had was to make sure that what is now Pakistan quit India as well!!

As I have always said, with enemies like RSS, who needs friends. And thank God that Jinnah showed character and (unlike Congress) did not hit the brits when they were down.

#183 by mohar11

I see why you can’t post any thing intelligent because you don’t know anything intelligent!

“``Bandar kya samajhey moti ka har``

The correct version is “Bander kya janaa Adrak ka Mazza” (Adrak=Ginger) it is true that you can only post something intelligent, if you have some intelligence or in other words “Bander kya janaa Adrak ka Mazza”

HP aka Hacked Penis...first you stop talking like a potty mouthed bubba and act your age for once...55+ whatever.

Re: # 182 HP
//....post something intelligent for a change? ...//

Post ``something intelligent``??..... now, why would I do that? This is chowk for crying out loud. ...... With people like you, closet-mullah, romair, ylh and host of other fools infesting this place - why would anybody post any ``intelligent`` stuff? That would be a seer waste of such ``intelligence`` - don`t you think?

Like that proverb in hindi goes ``Bandar kya samajhey moti ka har`` - it will be like putting a dimond necklace in a monkey`s neck......No offence to the monkey of course [you know, monkey being a hinud god and all that ...]

#179 Dost Mittar,

Bose did have a role and many people admired him and he never belonged to RSS or any other bigotry based political parties.
One key word that I missed in my post # 160 was “now”.

“What is happening “NOW” is that BJP/RSS and the whole Hindutva crowd is creating images to undermine Gandhi and Nehru’s leadership and struggle for Indian freedom”

Bose was a Bengali radical and did not fit very well in Gandhi and Nehru vision and style of leadership. I do think he was a cuckoo. (but there are many politicians who would fit the “cuckoo” designation.)

He was a much-admired leader and if I gave the impression that I don’t respect his efforts in Indian freedom movement than I must admit my mistake.
However, I do not agree with his going over to Nazis and Japanese and in fact that hurt him to the extent the he ended up losing his life for nothing. He should have waited it out in India to take on Nehru after the independence. But that is a different issue.

However, the current effort in India to dig up dead horses like Savarkar and to some extent Bose is to undermine and belittle Gandhi and Nehru leadership during the freedom movement. The Hindutva-vadi (vadi- is it same as folks?) are looking to turn heroes into Villains and non-entities into bigwigs which they were not.

#178 Mohar11,

Is there any way someone can make you post something intelligent for a change?

various
I`m no fan of the british empire, they treated black & brown as second class citizens, but compared to nazis/japs, brits were saints.

tahmed
i think britain`s ``darkest hour`` was in the 1940 battle of britain.

Dost-Mittar..take it easy old chap..I`m not too enamoured of you either. Its just that you talked of the BJP and its supporters in a condescending way and I couldn`t let it pass. Peace.


``However, while I do not dispute that the economy did well during the BJP rule, it simply continued with the policies started earlier and being more or less followed by the current government.``

Again you show your bias. The previous Congress government had no choice but to liberalise the economy in 1991 because failure to do so would mean a total collapse of the Indian economy which had imploded after 40 years of nehruvian socialism .

BJP did the right thing when it came to power and sped up the liberalisation process and did a lot more. In your eagerness to put down the Beej , you seem to give imply that Cong has some sort of a copyright over the process of globalisation/liberalisation....dude..you are one prejudiced old chappie...

tahmed32:

Nobody worships Bose in the sense my dear friend YLH ``worships`` Jinnah (and even he may not - Jinnah may be the only weapon he has to fight his battles in Pakistan).

People admire him for his courage and conviction and for sacrificing his brilliant IAS career and risking his life for the cause of the freedom of his motherland. It doesn`t behove anyone to call him a Nazi bootlicker just because he was willing to seek the help of the devil himself to achieve his country`s freedom. If it is wrong to court the enemy of your enemy to achieve your purpose, what do you think that the China-Pakistan friendhsip is based on? And didn`t Jinnah allign himself with the Feudals and use the religion card when he was not reiligious himself?

As for Bose being ``dumb RSS-type suffering from complexes and burning with resentments at being an ugly little guy. :-)``, this is what I meant by your reading biased reports (btw I did not call you biased, only your sources). None of these adjectives applied to him; he was neither dumb nor RSS-type (as I said earlier, his three generals had only one Hindu). He was not short and could pass off as a pathan while hiding in Kabul.

Mike:
Frankly, it is difficult for me to interact with someone who uses such foul language as you do.....
However, while I do not dispute that the economy did well during the BJP rule, it simply continued with the policies started earlier and being more or less followed by the current government.

Bose is over-rated.... I never understood why Indians have a fixation on him. Collaboration with nazis was NOT a great idea, even though his intentions are good. ....

But why are pakis so p!ssed at him? Closet-mullah32 is doing his usual monkey-dance .... that fool HP is frothing at mouth ..... What`s up with that?

We sort of understand why pakis hate gandhi - everybody hates gandhi anyway :) ... But why Bose? Because he was a bengali? Did he ever say anything against jinnah or cabinet mission sh!t and what have you??? ..... YLH can shed some light on that - Where is YLH anyway?