Ban on Play Mr. Jinnah

Re: # 111

thank you ana, you are right ``it does get very ugly here at chowk and ``saner`` voices do get drowned in the cacophony.``

Even we felt really overwhelmed by the negative publicity going on in the forum. We are giving out the truth to any and everybody across the world. And this is not just happening in this site but in several sites thru-out the world simultaneously. We have no discrimation for any other countrymen or preferance for Indians. I did not try to find out who is what or from where but simply tried to answer some queries in the forum. Pls read our postings no. 85, 86, 87, 87, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 99, 100, 101, 106, 107, IN Detail.

We are constantly in touch with people who are genuinely seeking answers. And we have not discarded any question as unreasonable. Once you go thru these above mentioned postings you will find that we, to our outmost liberty and honesty have answered all the queries raised so far. For any other queries, you may write in and we will reply to that.


Agreed we were a bit delayed in responding. That was simply because we have been running around so much with our 2 other productions, workshops, rehearsals, and the Media doesn`t let us rest, it`s always at our heels. WE needed to get our lives in order after this sudden shocking move.

But those few days have given rise to so many speculations, and preconcieved notions and blatant character assination of the director, the group and the actors of ASMITA that it was really depressing. Ok people want information, we will give it, but that does not mean that they should start accusing the group of seeking cheap publicity and maligning or sladering the motive. It`s not healthy or respectful. They should understand that just because we have a different point of view that doesn`t mean that we are crazy.

I will not take names or posting numbers, but once we went thru them we found most of them carried far fetched and humiliating assumtions and it was seriously hurting our reputation as artists.

For us Jinnah is more a human being first than a pakistani. No man is black or white, everybody has shades of gray. in our play he is a father, a brother, a husband, a friend, and above all this a man, just as he is a politician. The play is kind of an introspective dialogue of a very talented and ambitious man. We are not making any point either political or religious, we are only dealing with a man, a very complex and unusual and powerful man.

We wanted to revisit history and understand history from our perspective. we are not saying that the earlier perspective was wrong, but just that I want to see it differently. We want to go to pakistan. and continue this season of friendship. Someone even suggested we should do the play for pakistanis as well.

And we have tried to depict that in the play. He as a character has become very close to each and every member of ASMITA. And you will be surprised, as we were that the only query we got from all around is ``why stage a play on Jinnah?``. The only answer we can give is that ``He was interesting and still is. can be studied as a complex human chanracter.``

thanks for your posting.

addendum to article : Ban on Play Mr. Jinnah

Our group AASMITA has not got permission to stage the play Mr.Jinnah.
The south delhi police simply stopped the NOC without showing any reason.

It was stopped from being staged just a day before the scheduled date. Then on the Police has been giving vague excuses.
First they said that they couldn`t read the script. Which was a very normal hindi typed script, neatly spiral bound for them. They sat on it for 7 days and then they came up with a letter stating ``they request us to defer the play because the script is illegible.``

Then when we Invited the officials to our rehearsals they bluntly refused. Till date they haven`t been able ti cite a cause for the deferance of the play.
Surprisingly no other member of the public or media or newpapers have had any difficulty reading it. So far about 300 people must have gone thru the contents of the play. These are the people who came to see the rehearsals everyday.


After that we got an NOC from another part in delhi. But the funniest part is The auditoriums in that part of Delhi are suddenly finding strange excuses as not to allow booking for the show.

We did make a booking but the booking was cancelled at the last minute. Surprisingly the infomation that the booking was cancelled was given to us not from the auditorium authorities but the police. That means the auditorium was either contacted by the police or vice versa.

``It is simply the name of the play that has invited trouble,`` said theatre personality Ram Gopal Bajaj. ``This action is based on a draconian law made by the British in 1886 on performing arts,`` he said. Auditoriums in the capital are scared of staging the play and Gaur is still seeking a reason.

A representation was given to Police Head quarters on July 08. First they avoided meeting us and then coolly said, ``we haven`t put a ban, we just asked you not to stage it.``
And when we asked, ``But why sir? What is the reason?`` the answer is mum.

We are still awaiting response from Delhi Police. Meanwhile the rehearsal of the play is on. Our group is ready to perform any day in Delhi. And which is going to happen soon.
We are also going on with our efforts to communicate to political and administrative representatives of the State.

I forgot to mention one very funny incident....

when Mr.Gaur called up the police to ask for the reasons, the person on line was mumbling and groping for answers.

First he said ``Fundamental groups`` -- so our answer was ``no fundamental group had objected so far.``

second he said, ``traffic`` -- so our answer was ``We already have the traffic NOC.``

third he said the funniest thing -- he said `` it`s not morally correct.``

NOW THE million dollar question is, that they didn`t know the content of the play and yet they felt it was morally incorrect. Holy Cow! What is moral for him could be immoral for me. and viceversa. So now the delhi police is going to be the moral police and culture police and not crime controller.

then probably the police will state that it was not morally correct so we decided to clothe the khajuraho sculptures.

What if somebody said that ban the 7 music channels which are airing soft porn music vedios day and night and the delhi rape rate is rockting high influenced by that.

A play reaches a handful of people. TV goes into every home. Can they ban TV? On TV a serial named time bomb 9/11 is being aired. Isn`t the police scared of Al Quaeda? Why wasn`t the serial banned.

sanguine/asmitans

In India, the subject of Mr. Jinnah`s revaluation needs to be taken up by mature and balanced people.

Being friendly to your cause, I am sharing with you my firm belief that no group hoping to make any significant difference in the future of India should establish itself as part of the self-righteous lunatic left. Strategically (and you may disagree, morally) that is an unwise persona to project. You may still succeed, but your chances decrease dramatically.

Re: #106 by sanguine


[ANA and Ajeya

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The terms immature and insane were targetted at the people who were exactly that in this forum. I never took names neither did I refer to their postings(you presumed that I did) . So I don`t see why you reacted so sharply to it. ]


You missed my point.

I was not commenting on whether you should/should not have called the other posters on this forum insane and immature.

The joke was that while you were lauding someone`s non-judgemental approach, you yourself were judging other posters (as not sane, immature etc.).

It was just a joke (but apparently the smiley didn`t help).




But since you brought up the issue of a ``sharp reaction``.

Your actual posts are too ill-thought-out and cliche-ed to even attempt to discuss. Reeks of pre-pubescent knee-jerk idealism.

(I am not saying this to be mean. I actually mean this sincerely.)

So reacting sharply or otherwise was out of the question.

Re: # 117

NO THE SMILEY DID NOT HELP. If I throw shit on you and say I was smiling, it doesn’t lessen your pain does it? If you were so quick to point out that I was also being judgmental then may I point out a part of your posting?

I quote, “Your actual posts are too ill-thought-out and cliche-ed to even attempt to discuss. Reeks of pre-pubescent knee-jerk idealism. (I am not saying this to be mean. I actually mean this sincerely.)”

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> And you are NOT being judgmental? What you may find clichéd could be new for someone else. How can you judge what is “ill thought out” and “what is not”? Agreed that you maybe intellectually much much much advanced than us poor souls and We cannot please your Highly advanced intellectual post-pubescent cynicism and shoulder-jerking sneers at intellectually lesser endowed muggles.

But dear me when did you get the impression that this forum was a “well of intellect?” And it will quench your thirst for intellectual debate, where the interactors refer to each other with abuses?

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> AS FOR ME – I wasn’t even trying to be intelligent, ALL I wanted was to give out the right information and the facts. Purely as a defense move because when I read the entire forum I found many postings which were turning the debate into

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“either pak bashing” or “jinnah bashing” or “confirming the play Mr.Jinnah into a communal, religious potboiler.”

And that is exactly what we don’t want. Because Mr. Jinnah is in no way a communal play.

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> AS FOR YOU – Did we ask you to attempt to discuss anything? We are extremely sorry for that. Seriously. We were looking for some pre-pubescent jerks like ourselves. What a waste that you wasted your time and energy writing so many postings on a topic which you knew was “too ill-thought-out and cliche-ed to even attempt to discuss.”

And you had to come out with statements as stated below.

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We can understand control hi nahi hota, hai na?

Coming back to your postings --

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> No. # 48 “And if any Indian playwright were to write and actually produce a play that criticizes Muslims about a million different legitimate issues, lefties would be out screaming bloody murder. And all muslims would be baying for blood. Riots would break out. Politicians heads would roll.
And types like Stuka would be in the front with their megaphones condemning the HORRIBLE government that ALLOWED such a thing to happen.
THIS IS WHY YOU NEED POLICE PERMISSION TO STAGE A PLAY IN INDIA.”

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> No. #55 “Performing a play is different, because it can be deemed to have a greater potential to cause trouble. This is expressly because of your friends across the border, and inside the country.

It seems you have read the play Mr. Jinnah so well that you already know that it “criticizes Muslims” and if it is staged “Riots would break out. Politicians heads would roll.” You already know so much that youcould actually write a play review, with reading it or seeing it. Or even waiting for it to get published and released in book shops. Kudos to you.

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If I was stating that some postings were immature then let me ask you how could you make such immature statements in the forum without knowing the content of the play??? It was only to shut up such comments from people like you that I had to start posting the “ill thought out” “clichéd” facts. What if I accuse you of spreading rumors and wrong information about the play? We realized that people like you are getting worked up on preconceived notions without proper facts and will mislead the other members.

In my opinion you just came to this forum for some paki bashing and for no intellectual reason. Anybody who calls himself intellectual cannot be so fascistic towards another community or religion. Then what is the point of your education if it doesn’t teach you to respect others?

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> AS for performing arts -- How many performing arts can you name which have been the cause of riots? How many plays of Mr.Gaur have you seen? Have you seen “final Solutions”? “Bitter chocolate”?
Well name one out of 48 productions of ASMITA, which is related to real life issues and which has created communal riots? Name just one and I will accept what you say.


kuchh log hai bina jane bak bak karte hain aur fir mob bhi ikattha kar lete hain. Jis cheez ke bare me puri jankari na ho uske bare me apni rai dena bahut khatarnak sabit ho sakta hai. Aur hamare play ko aisa khatra ho, to ham bardasht nahi karenge.

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> Finally and foremost

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Don’t insult the intellectual level of Indian Muslims. I as a staunch Hindu and a patriot will sharply react to any body stirring communal feelings among the citizens of my country.

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> Muslims don’t do riots in India. They are equally respectable citizens of this country. Hooligans, mainly political hooligans do riots. And ``Bhare ke gunde``. Dogs who can bark at any and everybody. Mercenaries. And poor villagers who can be bought for money to break down mosques.
You got my point. More Hindu fundamentalists do riots in India than Muslims do. Check your statistics.

NOW WHO WAS BEING JUDGMENTAL? Communal? OR rather mental? Apne gireban me jhank kar dekho.


P.S. what is applicable for US of A and Bihar is not applicable for Delhi.

Re: #118 by sanguine


[NO THE SMILEY DID NOT HELP. If I throw shit on you and say I was smiling, it doesn’t lessen your pain does it? If you were so quick to point out that I was also being judgmental then may I point out a part of your posting?

I quote, “Your actual posts are too ill-thought-out and cliche-ed to even attempt to discuss. Reeks of pre-pubescent knee-jerk idealism. (I am not saying this to be mean. I actually mean this sincerely.)”

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> And you are NOT being judgmental?]


Does it HURT to think a wee little bit before posting?

Yes, I AM being judgemental. But I AM NOT praising someone for being ``non-judgemental`` as compared to everybody else.

See?

No?

Okay, I give up.



[What you may find clichéd could be new for someone else.]

Yes, but my point was that I could NOT have any ``sharp reaction`` because of it.

See?


[How can you judge what is “ill thought out” and “what is not”?]

I close my eyes and pick a one or the other.



[Agreed that you maybe intellectually much much much advanced than us poor souls and We cannot please your Highly advanced intellectual post-pubescent cynicism and shoulder-jerking sneers at intellectually lesser endowed muggles.]

Thanks.


[But dear me when did you get the impression that this forum was a “well of intellect?”]

I never did. Although there are some pretty mature and intelligent people in here.



[And it will quench your thirst for intellectual debate, where the interactors refer to each other with abuses? ]


No, but it will quench my thirst for some good old-fashioned mud-slinging.



[> AS FOR ME – I wasn’t even trying to be intelligent, ALL I wanted was to give out the right information and the facts.]

I never claimed that you were.



[Purely as a defense move because when I read the entire forum I found many postings which were turning the debate into
“either pak bashing” or “jinnah bashing” or “confirming the play Mr.Jinnah into a communal, religious potboiler.”

And that is exactly what we don’t want. Because Mr. Jinnah is in no way a communal play.]


Defense is the best offense.

Nothing, just a joke.


[> AS FOR YOU – Did we ask you to attempt to discuss anything? We are extremely sorry for that. Seriously. We were looking for some pre-pubescent jerks like ourselves.]

Who`s ``we``?



[What a waste that you wasted your time and energy writing so many postings on a topic which you knew was “too ill-thought-out and cliche-ed to even attempt to discuss.” ]

Actually my earlier posts were all aimed at Stuka`s posts.



[And you had to come out with statements as stated below.

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We can understand control hi nahi hota, hai na? ]


I`m sorry, I`m a bit slow sometimes. Are you saying that I cannot control my urges to post something?

If that`s what you mean. I`ll admit that that`s true. I have sworn to myself many times that I`ll stop posting.

But any time I see any humongous idiocy, I just cannot help myself. But I try.

Sorry.


I have to run now.

But I`ll respond to the rest of your stuff later.

Dear Arvind and others at ASMITA,

I do not know if ``sanguine`` represents you or not, but presuming she does, I can only infer that:-

a) ASMITA aspires to protect it`s own freedom of expression while denying this to me. This is the key issue not being responded to, and the main point too. But then, this is also the essence of certain religions and ideologies, so it just helps in positioning.

b) ASMITA aspires to be the last word on Jinnah, Indo-Pak relationships and state of the next generation, and any discussion or argument on the subject is banned. This is surprising, because nothing anybody says about Jinnah will make any tangible difference to anything. Especially to those of us who grew up in ``Bombay`` or read Manto. Incidentally, there is a very good article on the relationship between Gokhale, Tilak and Jinnah, up here at chowk.com itself, amongst others.

c) Somebody from ASMITA uses a Latin handle and then vanishes when the reply is in Latin.

d) ASMITA can not handle criticism. This is so apparent, you must teach your juniors how to be less insecure.

e) ASMITA is under the impression that the world owes it a livelihood. Come on! Theatre is a step towards television or films for most people, if not jingles and ads, right? So why shy away from the shine of gold?

f) Making fun of telephone calls is the height of winning an argument, according to ASMITA.

Arvind ji, why isn`t your script up? What are your views on Right to Information Act?

All the best in your endeavours,

Veeresh Malik

#86 Sanguine
``Asmita is a very small group of people working for art and theatre. Most of us are jobless``
I`ll say!

The only thing I can read from this whole frenetic exchange between Sanguine/arvind/latindude on one side and veeresh with a dash of kaalchakra on the other is that:

1. Nobody here has read the script, so the discussion is academic at best
2. ASMITA whoever she is is refusing to put up the net and will only debate on the principles;
3. There is a plan to release the book/script/whatever commercially in 2 weeks time.

A-ha! Suddenly the mists rise from my eyes... these ASMITA buggers wanna make money from the book sales and have created a huge hue-n-cry over this whole play issue simply so that more people will go out and buy those books! (what you don`t believe me....ask Salman Rushdie!)

And they`ll read the book and say ``What the hell! There`s nothing controversial in this! Bloody Delhi police acting as thought police`` and that`ll give the pinko liberals some stuff to argue over their vodka-n-sprite at those Page 3 parties.

My feeling is, these idiots can`t sell their play tickets to 10 people (if YLH and wife are in town, 12) so they rake up this huge ruckus. Mr. Gaur and his cronies should look for jobs in advertising when their drama club eventually folds up. Am sure they`ll do very well.

God, we have really given it to these guys. All they did was to get swept off their feet by an excessive belief in their own nobility.

Why are we making such a big deal over Mr. Jinnah and his actions. He is just like the rich little school boy we all remember. If you didn`t play as he wanted, he would get angry and take all the sport equipment with him, much to the sadness of everyone. Mr. Jinnah did no more and no less - except that his intransigence caused millions to die and tens of millions to be uprooted from their homes.
The sooner we forget him and his kind the better.
Salim

The fact that Mr. Jinnah accepted a solution that left one-third of ``his`` Muslims in India is proof of his duplicity. He never was interested in a homeland for Indian Muslims. He just wanted a patch of ground, even a ``moth-eaten Pakistan`` where he could hold sway. Once he got his Pakiland, he didn`t care about TNT and other such nonsense.

As a testament to Mr. Jinnah`s ``liberalism,`` the Paki Chowk Staff is busy in deleting the viewpoints of those who have a different opinion. Is this the legacy that Mr. Jinnah wanted to leave behind?

thanks Bhupinderji,

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sorry , but we hv to clerify few things. pls read it with trust in human being & on us.

we are a part of theatre group called ASMITA (means identity), we donot no how to sell books bcz we r not in that buisness. even we r not publiser. if books makes money even then we r not going to get single penny bcz we r not writer/ publiser of this play. ...........
please donot issue such statements,bcz it hurts a lot. belive me it really hurts.

i am doing theatre from last 15 yrs. without getting any sponsership from goverment / MNCs . i am totally depends on my audience, with the help of my audience, their support i am doing theatre ... so pls dont make such statements.

pls come & meet me some time than u can see / understand that what kind of people we are. ...we reherse under a peppel tree even in dec./jan. winter.
u cn ask to my thousands of students that i am not in money making business....


..............................................dear, pls donot use such words for any person whom u dont know. REPEAT....pls come & see my work .... i am not saying that i am a great director but i do my work with honesty. previously i was in electronic media, huge money /name/ fame was there but i was not satisfy with work so i left it & join theatre. we r doing socially relevent theatre.

with warm regards,
arvind gaur

Pakistan is in a precarious position between a rock and a hard place. The right wing fundo Mullahs on one side and the equally fanatic ``liberal progressives`` on the other. One has an agenda to take the country back to the 7th century and other wants to go back to the Stone Age, when there was no concept of civilization or law. The Mullahs, for their own gain, want to install a theocracy. The ``liberals`` want to perpetuate an oligarchy where they and their loved ones (spoilt children, getting educated overseas with their fathers` black moneys and feminazi, lazy, bored wives and daughters) will rule Pakiland for their own benefit. All this at the expense of the poor, hard working lower classes.

I say the best use of the Islamic nuke is to blow up the whole God-forsaken place. :@

arvind

Man, you are a good guy. Your have good intentions. Please make your task easier by working with us North/South/East/West Indian gutter residents. After all, you really can`t succeed by antagonizing so many bad Indians like us.

If you send me an address, I will be honored to send you a small contribution.

kaalchakra@sbcglobal.net

veeresh man I can only say one thing about you, kaalchakra, burpinder, and ajeya and stuka

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WHO LET THESE DOGS OUT??? Mr. Editor ARE YOU SLEEPING?

Or suddenly the mist over my eyes have lifted like burps and I see things clearly.... nobody visited chowk or would consider it as a mature open-forum. So mr. Editor gets a hot topic and leads his dogs to bark at each other and suddenly chowk.com is happening.

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what`s your problem? why are you engaged in mudslinging this group of theatre artist. Of course I can see some personal grouse in that. Grow up. If you don`t like them then don`t write about them. What are you doing by spoiling for a fight. you actually are looking like a farce on the site. if I were an ASMITAN I would have had just two words for you. you are not only hegemonyc in your attitude also you think you know all that is there to know about Pakistan. get real old man. ang get a grip. You are only goo din in mechani type advices for cars and travel articles or your own sick travels.

Just because you have been to pakistan you think you have become an expert in indo-pak relations. and when that group is repeatedly writing that they are not interested in talking about the indopak relations or the freedom of speech..

I think all they wanted was some debate on revisiting history and freedom of staging a play from their perspective of how they view history. so what`s itching in your pants. you r not only biased but also engaging in internet and inteleectual terrorism.

On top of that you are abusing the member snad director of ASMITA in the name of freedom of speech. Are you mad or something.

mantolives is right

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veeresh is a big ot and a liar.