Muslims Not Married in America

Re: # 36

Seems like this statistic scares you and that`s why you are in denial about it?

Re: # 37

* I don`t know CAIR`s official statistics. But one of the speakers at a CAIR conference in Long Beach (Los Angeles) a couple of years ago, did make this claim that among Muslims in America, the divorce rate is estimated at 35%

* You may want to look around, and also check with your local masjid. I know in Los Angeles, #35% seems real. In smaller towns it may be less.

* An old statistic about the overall American population is:
If 100 people get married today, then three years later, only 50 will be left married. Out of those 50 still married, only 25 will remain married seven years after the wedding.

* Meaning the overall divorce rate in America is 50% after 3 years. And 75% after 7 years. So the subset, the Muslims are doing better. But my personal concern is that since we are more confused because of mixing eastern confusion with western confusion, I wouldn`t be surprised that the 35% will increase. Specially because within our group, people are less likely to seek therapy or training, because of the common notion of ``I know it all``, even while suffering.

* I`m asking a lot of questions. But am not trying to put down my own people, daysi, or Muslim, in preference for other groups. I`m just trying to shed some light in some dusty cobwebbed corners so that we can make improvements

Re: # 36

: o )
Interesting.
It was at a CAIR seminar in Los Angeles a couple of years ago, that one of the panelists discussing marriage, said that the divorce rate among American Muslims is estimated at 35%

Other than that, yea, people say life and death is in the hand of God, and matches are made in heaven... I know not.

Re: # 35
* There are many forms of art, where the connections are not as ``obvious`` as lazy people would prefer. Deeper forms of art are multi-layered, for example traditional Urdu poetry. For example in Ghazal, the couplets are not required to be connected to each other.

* Some things need reading more than once, like a song. A good example is a musician named ``Immortal Technique``, another is the Simpsons. Both are examples of sub-references within a topic. The references can go from local to global, from something closely connected to the previous paragraph, to something distantly connected to the previous thought

* Another good example is most songs by Pink Floyd, and also their movie ``The Wall``. The first time you watch it, it seems not connected together. Upon seeing it multiple times, and discussing it with friends, one can understand it further. In that example, the teacher`s wife (BLAMING THE WOMAN AGAIN)
: o )
puts her husband down, he goes to school and puts the students down. She applies ``military`` discipline on him, he applies it on the boys, who grow up and admire the military killing machine, become soldiers and are killed, becoming canon fodder for multi-national corporations

Re: # 33

> These points which you mentioned are not soley found in Muslim women but a lot of women immigrants in the states who have to juggle and find sanity between two cultures share the same problems/confusions etc.But since, i am a desi living in desi land only, i can not speak on behalf of women based there

* Since Lollywood follows Bollywood, which follows Hollywood, this trend will keep infiltrating in desi land, like a fashion. Please read my replies to Sajal and others also.

> And, pray tell me, y, you have focused so much on single Muslim women?

* A 32 year old single muslim woman told me a few days ago, that she went to a masjid recently where they had an event for singles to get together. According to HER, most of the women were divorced, and most were in her age group.

* Perhaps read the article again, about why it`s mostly about Muslim women. It`s because in the last 40 years, it is the women who have gone thru a major change, they are confused about their new roles and this CAUSES confusion in men... as the beginning of this article states.

> Where are the obvious faults in Single Muslim men in the states?

* The role of a woman in a family is much more important than a man`s. Because she is a superior being. Specially with very superior relationship skills, this is also according to psychology.

* What men are doing wrong is basically not getting initiated into Manhood, through Rites of Passage, as in the not too distant past

> how, ironic: men always blame women for all their problems

* Usually, it`s the women who blame the man. Men are simple, thus easy to control by women. So it`s easier for a wife to help a husband to correct his problems. But if the wife has problems, it is nearly impossible for the husband to get her to open up and receive the help. Because his methods of motivation are not as effective as a woman`s. Specially when she`s working, she doesn`t have to listen to anything he says, specially about HER problems

Correction:
At the beginning of Sura Baqara, there are 4 Ayaat about Momin and 2 regarding Kafir

Not as slick but just article is as worldly as Amr Khaled`s teachings. Islam has defined roles for men and women specific to avoid such. The issue is not roles changing but Muslims allowing themselves to forget Islam. We can not date we can not be impure before marriage.

My Christian friends ask me why Muslims don`t date and laugh when I tell them about purdah in Pakistan. Then I ask them how they choose a mate - really by chance with no indepth knowledge of their deen. So who`s way is better - us perhaps not knowing a person indepth with selection made by parents or west ones whose parents have no say and do only entertainment dating that really tells nothing about persons character and ability to be good marriage partner? I think both ways help lead to divorce - especially in todays world.

Then again, we can not simply forget the traditions and teachings - Mohammed knew all his wives prior to marriage - and Khadijah persued Mohammed - so that is truly tradition. There is no problem with meeting spouse before marriage, it is the western style of ``knowing someone`` that creates problems. Stick to tradition.

Arjun #92, {:Not been married very long, have you :)
how`s it going man... ``}

No, I have not. Are you sharing something from your experience. :)
It`s great, I am very happy. Just miss the States, especially on the 4th of July.

Thanks for asking.
Salim

#91 by googenschlaugen on July 2, 2005 10:02am PT


I decided to marry a Turk in Turkey. Good decision. I am very happy as a result. :)
Salim

Not been married very long, have you :)

how`s it going man...

I was a Moose Limb living in America for almost fifteen years. Instead of marrying in America to a FOB desi, an ABCD, a kaali, or a gori, I decided to marry a Turk in Turkey. Good decision. I am very happy as a result. :)
Salim

gawali,

Post #24 was in response to grunge, not to you.

Re: # 32

Please list some specific examples

Re: # 31

What`s bigoted in that statement. You can use any other word in English, instead of ``Kafir`` as you prefer

Re: # 30

Dear Miss Rizvi,

> As a 27 year old unmarried Muslim American woman, let me say, ur article is scary.

* A a Muslim man, we may be more scared than you?

> someone else interacted and said, she didnt know where to start.

* Yes, it is a huge subject. I hope we can look at the many dimensions and avenues of it

> my two cents on this one:

* sis, I found your interaction valueable, caring and true

> it is difficult to find a man.

* Thus, women could help to send males to places where boys could be initiated into manhood.

> we also dont really feel like we need men to cook and clean up after UNLESS we loved them for who they are and they loved us for who we are, that includes us, our bodies, our eccentricities, complexities etc (that is normal for all humans).

* I agree. A man should get a maid instead, not a wife

> many muslim girls in the US get married since they are supposed to ( i am speaking only from a S. Asian perspective...there are plenty of other muslim communities in the US)

* I agree. Most people get married on auto-pilot

> and they realize that they were supposed to get married and all that was told to them aboutit was not what it was cracked up to be

* As the footnote of the article says, we need training. Also because we were miseducated or uneducated about relationships

* We`re pushed a lot to study and make money. Parents don`t tell you ``Make a million dollar marriage``

> and excaping their own mothers is really not enough reason to get married into another prison.

* Psychologist John Bradshaw calls this, the ``Poisonous Pedigogy``. Parents lacked training, and did the best they could. They pass on their bad habits to their children, who grow up and repeat the same patterns, blindly. And thus the dysfunctional behavior keeps being handed down to future generations

> It is a problem since as an interactor put it (grunge i think), there are plenty of traditional women to marry (and consequently divorce)

* good point about divorce. I guess a man could go back and keep getting married and getting divorced. Sounds painful though.

> who are fair skinned, obedient and sub servient.

* Some men may find those qualities boring. Indeed I know some cases where the men had become somewhat Americanized and a woman who is too submissive, they didn`t know how to deal with.

> good for u muslim men if that is what u want out of your life partner...its really sad that ur egos cant handle more but we have again, only ur mothers, women, to blame for that.

* As Islamic teachings emphasize balance...
I was hoping the article might indicate a need for that. Education is good for women, work may be good for women too. Often, an educated and mature woman, who`s also seen life in the work environment, often desires to quit her job and be a full time mom. Because that brings her more satisfaction than any career. She usually realizes this in her mid-thirties, if not before.

* A divorced single mother, could have a big job, a big house, a big bank account, but an empty heart, because she longs for a fulfilling relationship with a man

> i want babies, i like to cook and i have a life that is my own and i am willing to share it with someone who shares my values and thoughts on life. its rally not that much to ask.

* that`s what I`m saying in the article

> and why must we worry about getting married later? aint nothing wrong with that.

* yes, used to be women worried about the biological clock and wrinkles. But now modern medicine and hundred dollar facial creames can do wonders

> im fine with being a single mom too, though im not sure how well that goes down in islam. not very well culturally for sure but im sure islam is cool with it.

* Yes, that`s a common trend. See, women don`t need a man. They can go to a sperm bank, and have a baby, get the love from the child, like teenage moms do. A married woman can divorce, get half her hubby`s money, house, babies. And make him pay alimony and child support and she can live happily ever after?

Re: # 26

Thanks for understanding our frustrations

Re: # 25

> The main beef I have with your article is that you could have dropped the “Muslim” word and pretty much still made many of the same points. What you describe is also (by and large) true of Indians, too and the divorce rate is quite high (I know of three cases personally)

* Since I am in the subset group, a Muslim, and familiar mostly with that group, I didn`t want to make sweeping generalizations about other communities.

> You also make whole bunch of sweeping statements in the most general way (e.g., “We exhibit the attitude of a closed minded person, instead of having a student’s perspective.”)

* I meant to describe some of the general problems, or common tendencies that cause problems


> Notes:
[Usually women put a lot of emphasis on the desire to be entertained and complimented by men. Some even say “Lie to me, to make me happy”.]
> Some?

* Very funny, and true. Does she want me to become a liar?
: o )

[…women who are looking for a temporary fix: to combat boredom, curiosity, confusion.]
> I guess READING just doesn’t give the same level of satisfaction. Perhaps they could try WRITING!

* Could you please convince them?
: o )

[…developing the illusion that she is the most valuable commodity in heaven and earth. ]
> And just when I was getting used to thinking that MEN have that role.

* Men had that luxury in the home country. But in America, the woman tells the man, mayri khidmat karo, varna...

[(2) Kafir: They are the same inside and out, but don’t believe in living an honorable life, for example, based on the teachings of Islam.]
> I guess that would rule out all those HINDOOS as potential husband material – talk about narrowing down your own options! (Apne pairon per kulharee!)

* I phrased that statement, I thought with care... I think it clearly states, that ONE example of living an honorable life, is for a person who chooses to follow Islamic teachings.

* As Karen Armstrong says in her book ``A History of God``:

* The litmus test of a personal who follows any spiritual principles is, does it make him a more kind and compassionate human being

* In the Islamic tradition, we believe that there were prophets and messengers sent to every nation, in every era. Possibly there were 124,000 of such guides. Per Hamza Yusuf, it is likely that Buddha and Krishna were among such teachers.