Muslims Not Married in America

To keep the discussion on track:

There are a lot of QUESTIONS raised in the article. It would be productive if readers respond to those specific questions also. A general question I`m asking is, why does a woman need a man? Specifically, why does a working woman need a husband?

Re: # 1

If marriage is to be extracted from religion. Then how is it defined? What principles should be followed which would make a marriage work?

Reply to #45 by Raw_Dust on June 29, 2005 5:29pm PT
Mut`ah is a seperate issue we are talking about the rate of falling marriages. The reason I think is that the current generation women are more independant than the previous one`s and they fail to understand the power of compromise. I don`t want to sound like a sexist but this applies to both sexes. We fail to compromise on petty issues and these petty issues result in the break up. This new found liberty and independence of women tends to induce this sense that they can live witout a man and can raise a family I personally admire this thing but rationally thinking this is where the downfall starts. You cant me mother and father at the same time. It took Americans a generation to understand the real meaning of liberty and independence. The hollow promises of liberty of Hyppie era could not last even a decade and they had to turn to their past to seek solace. We desis are passing through that same metamorphisis state we are blindly accepting the norms ofwest without realising the facts that these might not the useful to us in the future. We dont learn from other`s experiences and we will never learn becuase the intelligentsia among us does not have the moral courage to challange the change with valid reasons. Those stupid people that think they will find their IDEAL partner live in fool`s paradise. Their is nothing IDEAL in the real world unless you fake it and marriages dont last long on fake promises. As far as the issue of shadi.com or shodionline is concerned no one takes them seriously. Marriage is a serious issue which you cant resolve on message boards and instant messengers.

ATISHRAJ
atishraj@hotmail.com

How on earth is America a female-dominated society?

[We have no time to read relationship books. We even lack the inclination to listen to the other person to get to know them. Rather we want to control them with our subjective conditions and terms, expecting them to obey. We exhibit the attitude of a closed minded person, instead of having a student’s perspective.]

That`s a valuable observation:`` Student`s Perspective``. I think there is a point and time for everything. I do agree with you that ``listening`` is a critical component here. Sometimes, it`s fine to be the student provided the other person is wearing the same lens. On other occasions, you have to read the person very quickly to be on the same wavelength. At times, this student approach can go against you. You may have a goof with you who does not understand your method to this madness.

I think it is necessary not only to read books on relationship but also apply the lessons learned from the books. You can read anything and everything on this planet but if you cannot implement what you read then it`s a waste of time.

Fazeel,

[I am an ordinary man trying to live an extraordinary life as my teachers told me to do. ]

and

[Men are wondering, how do they need to adapt with the new versions of Muslim women. Are we expected to live as domesticated pets, in a life of servitude?]

The above were million dollar points. The writer clearly admits the process of introspection he is going through. The fact that he is entertaining the idea of being a ``domesticated pet living a life of servitude`` must be applauded. It`s not that he has made the decision to lean in that direction but he is ``considering`` the idea by cross examining it. Wow! Chowk should feel real proud to host this article where the male writer is so forthright about his future possibilities.

If you are ever in or around NY City or NJ, I would definitely like to meet up and be further enlightened.

Z

What about Muslims and Muslimahs who would like to have Allah-sanctioned & Mohammad-illustrated Sex but with the same sex as theirs? Or do they have to fear Hazrat Ali sanctioned burning here and in the hereafter? hmm.. hmm?

Zehra: you say ``i am sure islam is cool with it``. hey, Muta`ah is there, some ``progressive`` Sunnis need to bring this tradition into the Sunnism :-) now that would be really cool ! Fazeel Sahib is there any room for Ijmaa or Qiyaas on the legitimacy of Muta`ah. ?

Naqshbandi,

In general, `crisis` is an overstatement...

Imam Hamza Yusuf zindabad!

Second generation Muslims living in the West (especially those who are not ethnically from the host country) are in a crisis--spiritual, emotional and psychological; marriage problems are just one manifestation of this.

grunge,

I just could not resist responding to your post #17...

``my preferences for a wife are in complete unison with my mother`s preferences for a daughter-in-law -- a modest damsel who believes in playing the predetermined traditional role of a wife in accordance with islam, i.e, stay at home, cook, clean, raise and take care of the kids. ``

Your mothers preference doesn`t surprise me, it`s yours that was the shocker! To my mother-in-laws dismay, she didn`t get to pick me...Although my husband, held opinions very similar to yours, till we met of course, it wasn`t after we got married that he realized what he would`ve have missed, if he had married the so called (and personally non-existant) ``ideal wife``
It seems like your not looking for a wife, but rather someone who can tend to your house and kids. What education has given us, as women is the realization that marriage is a partnership. My husband is in no way my superior, but rather my partner, who I have immense love and respect for, as he does for me.

your next statement, ``I have absolutely nothing against women being on equal footing or more with men on everything, but i firmly believe that women have a far more gruelling and important task at hand, i.e., to raise the kids``.

I don`t have kids as yet, but can safely say that the gruelling task really is the giving birth part. As far as raising kids is concerned, again it`s a partnership. Your child needs a father as much as as he/she needs a mother. I won`t deny that a mother is more than likely to get more involved, but it can do no harm for a father to be just as involved. I can safely say that your child will grow up with the values you own, and more than likely be a secure individual. I was blessed with parents who believed in this priniciple, and I felt no distinction in treatment when it came to me and my brother. Most importantly we saw a good marriage, where my father treated my mother with equal respect, and although my mother was highly educated, she chose to stay home when she had kids (somethin that was not enforced by my father).
I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with having an arranged marriage, but rather your technique. If your trying to shop for a wife, you might find a servant, but not a partner to spend the rest of your life with...I don`t mean to sound harsh, but rather am stating reality.

The brilliance of this essay has left me simply speechless.
How the author arrived at such a magnificent piece of literary prose is an enigma to me!

Bravo!!!!

Such coherence in ideas, what flow, what continuity.

Such creativity used in the placement of an invisible thesis statement.

From Women to Men, Iqbal to Jawab Shikwa, Momin to Munafiq, marriage to divorce! WAh wah
How wonderfully the polarities are represented!!

The Editors at Chowk should be applauded for helping put such fine pieces for our reading pleasure. Bravo, Editors! You guys are just fabulous!!!

kamath.

The problem is that reliance on servants creates the illusion of a poor work ethic and being spoiled. Not that they don`t cook or clean...or are doing something else with their time instead...

---

Zerha,


``...its really sad that ur egos cant handle more but we have again, only ur mothers, women, to blame for that.``

I don`t know if it`s ego exactly...more like fear. I wouldn`t want to marry a traditional woman for probably the same reason grunge doesn`t want to marry a ``modern`` woman...just wouldn`t know how to interact with them.

Fazeel - i think everyone`s pretty much said what I thought when I read the article i.e. i dont know if this is meant to be funny or if its badly expressed dogma. anyway, i found this entertaining although i didnt understand what the second part of the article [culled, apparently, from the posts of several chowkie interactors] had to do with muslim marriage in the US. So i`m looking forward to your post now.

cheers!

Fazeel:

ok, as i promised i have begun reading this:

Muslims in America are delaying getting married because of a prevalence of role confusion and immaturity.

i just clicked on your intro which informs me: `` Fazeel Azeez Chauhan is an Activist and Poet. He has written extensively on issues related to Pakistani immigrants in America and has been published in Pakistan Link. Studying the Anthropologists in in Los Angeles for twenty years.....hmmmm....digression time: anthropology: anthropology, classification and analysis of humans and their society, descriptively, culturally, historically, and physically. Its unique contribution to studying the bonds of human social relations has been the distinctive concept of culture. It has also differed from other sciences concerned with human social behavior (especially sociology) in its emphasis on data from nonliterate peoples and archaeological exploration.(from net) end digression...

so my query to you would be to cite your sources for this delay in getting married...we need to establish this delay beyond reasonable doubt before we jump to relate it to the prevalence of anything...let alone role confusion...now this you need to establish also...as a good scholar...and while at it you have to establish the same (prevalence) of immaturity...this latter is very important...

...you have to be more explicit in elucidating whose `immaturity` you have in mind...we the readers have a charter of rights too. you know....and this is so loaded and ambiguous this first sentence violates clauses 3, 7, 9 and 13 of the charter of reader`s rights...

...who is immature....Muslim, America as in the USA?...are the muslims confused about the institution of marriage itself? do they think it is out-dated?...or are they confused of who should wear the pants in the new family envisaged?...or is confusion on the prevalence of necessity?...under the laws of necessity drastic and irreparable damage has been done to the national psyche (i cite the late justice munir)...these measures have been the last nail in the enigmatic conundrum facilitating foggy musings on a humid warm day in the aftermath of a lovely barbecue dissertation on the need and victory of rationality over regression in the much touted victory of prevailing winds of change over static back-to-womb charges essayed by the dormancy advocating hirsute...you sir are either a genius or baffling poor me...i need a drink...it is very warm and humid and i am still on the first sentence...

will someone not encourage me to stop.....no i think i have expressed a contrarian desire...will somebody ask me to stop?

rgds

t

ps: just FYI am not a muslimah...but have beed told am high maintenance;)

Re: # 36
Sorry I should have said ,`` this claim is NOT supported by CAIR..`` - one finger typing!!

The author says,``..The divorce rate among American Muslims has gone from 2% to 35% in one generation. ..

I do not believe this . This claim is supported at any time by CAIR. According to them, most Islamic marriages are made in heaven!