Enigma of the Defence Budget

sherry:

nice to see you here and welcome to chowk:)

this is the crux of the matter Despite defence absorbing more than a quarter of the national wealth, the subject, unlike debt servicing, has become inured from public debate and exempt from any parliamentary accountability.

the militray is not only the gods, it is also the prophets and the companions to boot!

t

ps: please continue your jehad against the hudood ordinance

A quarter of the budget?.That`s a lot of moola.However, in light of terrorists and inflamatory mullahs lurking in pakistan, not including the need to step in if sectarian violence gets out of hand, it is imperative to maintain a large armed force to maintain order or act as a deterrent.A necessary cost for pakistan.The citizenry has no choice but to grin and bear it.

Would someone correct me if I erroneously suggest that specifics of the defense budgets are never discussed in open congress sessions in the US too? AFAIK, this practice is followed by most countries including India, UK and France too.

I have heard her name before I doubt that I have ever read her but from her intro it appears that she has a track record of a respected journalist then why she did not do her math. A 4-percentage increase in the defense budget clearly shows the rate of inflation and yearly increases in the army personal salaries. So in real term there is no increase in the defense budge from the last year.
So here is my math:
Current Budget 223 B
Last years budget 193 B
Another 23 B per revised estimate so the total last year’s budget was 216 B. The current budget is only 7 billion more which is about <4% increase over the last year. What is the problem then? Inflation in Pakistan is approx 10% so we may see another revised estimate to cover for the inflation.

“The second question being asked is why Pakistan now needs a huge defence budget that is close to four per cent of its GDP, when India is spending 2.8 per cent?”

I am amazed at people who make such wild claims.
Pak spending 4%
India spending 2.8%

Both buy equipment in the international market.
Dollar = Indian RS 45.
Dollar = Pak Rs. 59.
That’s why the Pak percentages are higher.

“The question of maintaining the eighth largest standing army in the world, when huge undisclosed amounts on the nuclear option are disbursed, becomes critical, for the simple reason that the nuclear deterrent capability was meant to substantially reduce the need for such a large conventional force.”

Nobody ever said that nuclear deterrent capability was to reduce the conventional forces. In fact, it is a downright childish argument. Unless you link the reduction of conventional forces to better relations with India and reduced tension in Kashmir, your argument would always fall flat. There is no history and not even India has reduced its conventional forces because it is nuke ready. The PPP in 1977 used this argument to promote the Nuke option in the international community and the army slammed ZAB’s head on the walls in Adialla.

Here is the problem with Pakistan Journos, first they don’t research any thing then they write wild things in their articles thus opening themselves up for ridicule. Finally, the politico journalists like Sherry Rehman write about the military budgets when their own party is not in power. I bet that Ms. Rehman would not have bothered to write this much if the PPP was in power.
Charlatans!

HP:

The Indian defence budget includes pensions which is actually one of the higher components. Also, the Armed Forces in India do not have commercial interests outside the miniscule Army Wives Welfare Association etc which handles things like melas etc.

Bombing the tribals in the NWFP and dropping bombs on the baloch isn`t cheap?

who`da thunk?

Stuka,

I am not comparing budgets. All I am pointing out that she should have researched this piece instead of writing childish stuff.


I know what the Pak army is doing and people who oppose the army w/o the accurate knowledge actually end up helping the army.

The army in Pakistan has developed its own interests and it will protect them no matter what.

The more I research into the Pakistan military (read Army`s) business holdings, the more amazing it gets. They are truly unbelievable. Pakistani generals must be amongst the richest in the world. Perhaps I should have stayed in the military!!

Someday, time permitting, I will try to write about it. People`s jaws will drop, when they find out how much, and how quickly these guys make money. People have made close to a crore ruppees in a day (seriously speaking). Other(s) have gotten plots allocated in green areas and forced banks to finance them..........

Then there is another racket, where every retired guy ends up in PIA, or PIDC, or CAA or somewhere, simply through military placement. Even when they are not needed and someone else can do the same job. When I retired, I seriously thought of joining PIA. I had the licenses, the degrees and the age. But did not have the contacts. At the same time, there are people in their mid-40s who have gone onto become entry level pilots, because the military placed them there!! Which airline of the world hires entry level pilots in their mid-40s, when there are so many available, in their 20s, who are qualified?

Nearly every organization run by the Army is in a loss. I have it from the horse`s mouth. There are only one or two that keep the whole Fauji foundation running. There are unbelievable hostile take-overs of privately owned companies, through arm-twisting.

The PAF`s Shaheen Foundation just got into the call-center busines. While the Army recently got into the software business. Now why are these business set-up. If the Army needs an organization to run its computer systems, why doesn`t it just form a group, inside the Army, under Signals? Becuase it needs to employ retired Generals and their kids in civilian companies...........

Quite a few of the expats on Chowk have dads who were in the Army. Including quite a few, who now criticize it.............

The big saving grace of the Pakistan military is that all of the above is limited to Brigadiers and above. Lt. Cols. and below are still fighting for flag and country, at meagre salaries, in the boondocks of Pakistan, against much much larger armies. People of these ranks, and specifically the jawans, retire as paupers, in many cases..........

I think the author may have missed the biggest financial problem, related to the Army. It is a crisis. There are now more retired Army personnel than serving. And the pension bill for the Army is larger than the salary bill now............

There is a simple solution to this:

- Cut the General Staff by 2/3rd
- Get the military out of the business sector completely
- Raise the salaries of the qualified young military officers manifold, to at least bring them, in line to some extent, with the public and private sector

#7 by Romair on June 29, 2005 5:30pm PT


At the same time, there are people in their mid-40s who have gone onto become entry level pilots, because the military placed them there!! Which airline of the world hires entry level pilots in their mid-40s, when there are so many available, in their 20s, who are qualified?

When I retired, I seriously thought of joining PIA.


Well they hired NHK after he got out of the PAF....and he`s a real fighter jock, not a grease monkey like you...If you`re picking things they do wrong, that`s probably the worst example.

In any case, Pakistan`s loss(gain) is Canuckistan`s gain(loss?)....I`m sure the canuckistanis need your fantastic IT business skills more than the PIA needs pilots...after all, the PIA already had(or had) people like NHK...what does canuckistan have?

Dear Ms Rehman:

You’re brilliant writer and I’ve admired your writing for a long time. It’s so good to see you at Chowk.

However, I do have a question for you before you call the kettle black...

Why your party, the PPP, does not hold inter-party elections, something like the “primary” elections in the US where candidates compete and the voters decide which candidate they would like their party to represent as a leader of the country? Would not that process start a debate on critical issues facing Pakistan and set a standard? Would not that process throw up fresh candidates and force them to come out clean? Is that not a “true” democracy when an individual is not the Party itself? Would it not make the Party outlast the candidates? Would it not give the Party an ideology and a platform to stand on firmly and convincingly?

If you interacted at Chowk to answer questions, you’d prove that the PPP is a true “People’s Party” and that you are a politician of integrity, honesty and principle. Is it and are you?

Is the author someone famous?

actually, this might be an unfair comparison to fox news given the success it has achieved but the similarities between fox news and chowk are remarkable. both entities claim to have no specific agenda. both entities exist to push lies to lend credibility to their agenda.

the lies mentioned in the article above can be uncovered by anyone who has access to a broadband connection, excel spreadsheet and twenty minutes of free time.

details of fauji foundation`s operations can be found on the entity`s website:

http://www.fauji.org.pk/

here are some lies mentioned in the article are as follows:

1. the author says military`s foundations ``pay no direct taxes on their corporate activities``.
fauji fertilizer (ffc) is a core holding of fauji foundation. financials of fauji fertilizer shows that it tax expense amounted to 37% of its pre tax income in 2004. here is the link to the financials:

http://www.ffc.com.pk/contents/annualrep.htm

details of taxes paid by other commercial army linked entities (ALE) such as askari bank can be verified from their websites. also according to information on fauji`s website, ``The Foundation and its associated companies paid PKR 24 billion in taxes/ duties to the Government during the year 2004.``

2. author says that fauji related entities operate in a monopoly environment. this claim is absolutely hilarious. there is no sector where an ALE has a monopoly and fertilizer is the only sector where an ALE has dominant market share. foundation`s fertilizer companies however are publicly listed and traded and its operations are subjected to the same degree of scrutiny as other publicly listed companies. btw ffc trades at a dividend yield of around 9% and is an absolute investment steal in my opinion.

3. author insinuates that army linked entities survive due to subsidized operations. according to investment analyst, fauji fertilizer has the most efficient operations in the country. i can post those research reports if requested.

4. author claims that there is a ``creeping militarization of the mainstream economy``. actually the only thing ``creeping`` in the pak is arab control of the economy. arabs now completely control the telephone sector (land and mobile), and have huge stakes in the refining and banking sector. also in terms of influence, mansha is the dominant businessman in pak. his influence far outstrips that exercised by the army. mansha controls the largest textile concern (nishat) and the biggest insurance company (adamjee) and the fourth biggest bank (mcb). its widely known in pak that mansha business fortune got a boost because of his relationship with the sharifs.

waisay i am not surprised to see sherry rehman resorting to such lies. she does after all represent a party controlled by a murderer. one of my best friend`s khaloo was appointed the head of steel mills by zardari. in return, he funnled huge amount of cash to zardari. when n.s. came to power, he had my friend`s khaloo arrested who then agreed to sing against zardari. before the case could go to court, zaradri had the guy murdered. here is the reference to the murder. before the murder, zardari`s goon had been threatening murder to my friend`s family:

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:7ExQBqZl1LUJ:www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp%3Fpage%3Dstory_6-8-2003_pg7_46+pakistan+steel+murder+zardari&hl=en

Asif Zardari indicted for murder

KARACHI: South Additional District and Session Judge (ADSJ) Abrar Hussain Memon on Tuesday formally indicted Asif Ali Zardari, accused in the murder case of former Pakistan Steel Mills (PSM) chairman Sajjad Hussain.

Mr Hussain was shot dead in September 1997 by unidentified gunmen and a case against unknown attackers was registered. The former chairman was accused of corruption in the PSM and was being investigated by Ehtesab Bureau officials. Mr Zardari was booked after an alleged confessional statement by Muhammed Khan Chachar, on death row for some other case in the Punjab. Mr Chachar allegedly told investigators that Mr Hussain was assassinated at the behest of Mr Zardari.

#10

she`s a member of the Pak Legislature (ha ha). She was one of the early visitors on the Lahore Delhi bus (mushy boy likes to push the pretty faces out to prove his ``en mo``)

http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/pakistan/f.html

Stuka #10: ``Is the author someone famous?``

Sherry Rahman was the editor of Pakistan`s most famous English monthly, called Herald. When Musharraf created reserved seats for women, in the Assembly, she got in on a PPP ticket. Now she argues for women`s rights etc. Which is a good thing. As is getting the Army`s business concerns out in the open. All these businesses should be privatized.......I know them from the inside. And I can tell you its all a big fraud, with huge conflicts of interests.............

Having said that, she faces the same dilema, which so many urban PPPliyas face. She is in a party, which is led by the most regressive feudals. Amin Fahim the head of her party, has four sisters married to the Quran. Benazir and Zardari, the exiled heads, have been convicted of corruption in Switzerland and face a six month jail sentence. And her party has a lifetime chairperson, and thus never holds elections...........

Everytime she comes on TV, pushing her agenda (much of which is good), she is faced with the above comments. And like most PPPliyas has no answer...............Not to mention, that she, herself, would not be in the assembly, had Musharraf not created so many reserved seats for women. Yet she is his big critic (quite ironic)............

[I know them from the inside. And I can tell you its all a big fraud, with huge conflicts of interests.............]

... only senior staff officers are privy to the shenanigans in the forces...what was the rank you retired as...lt. general, major general, brigadier, colonel, lt. colonel, major or was it the lowly captain...

as JS Mill said, `a benign dictatorship is worse than a brutal one`.

today we can clearly see why. when there exists a fantastic disconnect between the social, economic and political, it reflects the collapse of civil society. and thus reinforces the fact that this country is a failed state.