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with all due respect, the debates even here at the FP have been rapidly declining almost since the first time i signed up here which in december will be four years ago. so that rapid decline cannot be placed in salim`s lap alone. there have been other members who have contributed to that decline. . . . members who never get banned, whose posts have yet to be removed for ``violating chowk guidelines`` and who consider it their right to free speech to write anything they wish here at the front page, from calling women the b word, to telling a female she needs to get laid, if heaven forbid she should express an opinion they do not agree with. from being hateful without using profanity.

in terms of this thing we call ``credibility`` everyone and anyone`s credibility can be questioned at some point. i think we should stop pointing fingers at who is credible and who isn`t, when our own credibility can be put to question, and is.

i do not feel that the vilification here was called for. i am not surprised however that those who raised their ``voices`` here did so. some people take a certain amount of pleasure in tripping up someone else whenever they can. and the author of this piece is no exception to that. nor am i.

there really is little distinction between unplugged and the front page. the reason unplugged exists is because it began at the front page. and unplugged hasn`t changed what still goes on at the front page.

and the beat goes on. . . .

IF Mr. Salim is to be sensored than it has to be done to Samin Asha and others also. How many times Samin Asha writes beeyatch and other foul language to people? How many time she harrassed every poster who defeated her in debate? Why her violation of Chowk guideline is tolerated? Why Arjun_m is allowed to post anti-Islam and anti-Pakistan propaganda everyday?

Ana,

To my knowledge, no one in the past four years has posted explicit workplace info of female interactors. It is one thing to constantly be told that you are a ``feminazi`` and every pejorative slur possible-and this has somehow become accepted at chowk. But posting info of real people to harrass them is taking it to a whole new level.

We all have different opionions here. You and I have disagreed many times. But neither of us has felt it necessary to post pictures for the sake of ridicule. I have not found it necessary to find out where you work and live. No one has posted the names of your closest relatives.

THIS IS AN ALL NEW LOW.

The interactions on this board jumped from genuine criticism to unfettered attacks. As someone who in the past was also attacked at a personal level (including pictures being posted without my consent) this is the continuation of troubling trend at chowk. Is there a balance to be found between spirited critiques and personal attacks? I wonder.

Re: # 72

nonsense and drivel !

urstruly mian, this is a prime example of the victim mentality that is driving muslims to blow themselves up and drives other people nuts .............

............. i don`t know a single muslim who has lost his job in america because of 9/11 ....... periods ..........

......... and i know dozens (maybe hundreds) of people who are employed in industries that are hurting - telecom, computer services, management consulting, electronic manufacturing and automotive ........... my company has laid off thousands of people in the last four years, but i don`t know a single sorry-behind muslim who has lost his job inspite of the unkempt facial hair and the fact that they disappear for two hours every friday afternoon ............... most of the people who were fired were white men over fifty years of age with kids in college and huge mortgages - a number of them are still looking for jobs ............ i know many (30+) pakis working at gm, ford, chrysler, visteon, delphi etc., who inspite of the fact that they have done nothing for the last ten years (no one else does either ) continue to draw a nice paycheck every two weeks ............ paki doctors keep on getting residencies and keep on getting promoted as heads of departments iand keep on building monstrosities in bloomfield hills .......... and contrary to popular belief, there are many paki residents in lucrative specialties like surgery, opthamology and dermatology (my two nephews, for example) .......... i know at least one pakistani entrepreneur in the valley who inspite of the fact that he has frittered away over a hundred million dollars in vc over the last fifteen years just managed to get another twenty for another hairbrained scheme ...........

........... and wonder of wonders, i am still employed !........... and i often wonder why - if it was up to me i`d fire myself and hire three young white guys, plus one colored quadraplegic woman to satisfy eoe, for the same money ........... the only reason i can think of is because i am a muslim, and they are afraid to fire my sorry behind because i might go crying to some urdu newspaper with my sob story !.......... that`s why i am keeping my name ................

........... shame on you for giving in to this kind of stupidity when the facts are staring you in the face !........... next time you buy a three dollar coffee at starbucks, think of the poor white engineer who used to sit in the cube next to you and is now selling shoes at marshall fields .............. ingrate !

urstruly,

............ since you and i live in the same area, and probably know some of the same people, let`s meet for lunch and compare notes - bring your list of people/muslims who have lost their jobs ......

...............how about mccormick`s at 1:30 today! ......... i am buying - i recommend the seared ahi (it was caught by a muslim fisherman and is halal) .........

Saminasha#71:

I wrote that post with some hesitation because I did not want to get into the type of discussion we are now entering. But I could not stand by and see the character assasination of someone I know to be a very decent and kind human being. And in so doing, I analysed what I think are the reasons for what`s happening here. If I were a moderator of this forum, I would have closed this thread with a statement, ``This thread is now closed as it has turned into personal abuses``.

``1. post of their full names
2. repeated post of their photos
3. repeated post of their workplace

Dost Mittar, do you think these are not serious violations of privacy? Who among the rest of the interactors to which you refer compulsively and ceaselessly complete actions 1-3.?
Answer the question, please``

I belong to the old school where civil and courteous discourse and respect for women was more important than privacy and in that old fashioned world, women did not use four-letter words either. But I do know that the world has changed and, so, I agree that the rules regarding privacy must be followed. Some of us do know other chowkies in real life and make it a point not to advertantly divulge their personal information. I do not know whether posting personal information from a public source at chowk is specifically forbidden by chowk guidelines or law, but if it is then isn`t it chowk that should not have published this information in the first place? By the way, I do know of at least one other case where an esteemed chowkie posted a picture of ZahraJ on chowk, though not in a negative way. Regardless, as a simple matter of courtesy, if someone has posted information about someone else without knowing their true feelings about it, the least they should do is apologise for their act.