Hazrat Sarmad Shaheed: The Naked Sufi Martyr

Naqshbandi (#178):

You started propaganda against Mirza Sahib. Since you neither substantiate your filthy claims, nor recant them, you certainly deserve a few choice abuses.

I have asked a simple question all along ... did you read the actual material yourself, or are you getting it from a web-site? If it is a web-site, can you provide a link?

You are unable to respond to a simple question. Are you being honest or simply blowing smoke?


Urstruly (#182):

You agree that basis of Naqshbandi’s couplet remain unsubstantiated. Which is what I have said all along. Read my post #176 again … with open eyes this time.

Regarding your noble research that you are seemingly proud of … what about the “children of prostitutes” issue? I distinctly recall your earlier claim that you can easily prove this. You now admit it was a mistake. What happened? Did your zeal and ullema mislead you? Care to share your resource?

And I am still waiting to hear an explanation of the hadith you quoted … “I am the last prophet and this mosque of mine is the last mosque” …? If anything, this hadith strongly supports continuation of prophethood. Care to share your dignified research on this one??

Once you do this, we can look into the cholera issue (which too is incorrect!!). Deal?


hamidm (#181):

What is truth and what is lies … is somewhat of a matter of perspective. I am comfortable with my take on things. The basic principle remains that one must maintain sincerity and dignity in one’s thoughts, discussions, and actions. That’s my main contention with Urstruly and Naqshbandi here. Besides that, who one accepts as god, prophet, pimp, or a prostitute … is better left to each person’s own view, intellect, and belief.

If you think Ahmadi views are based on lies … that’s your view … which too I am comfortable with. I am not trying to prove myself right ... but only showing that my views are valid.

Re: # 176

Please do not attribute to me the things that I have not said.

We have discussed this before that I did not find any evidence that Mirza Sahib collapsed into the toilet bowl and died there, which is prevailing assumption among Muslims, which, probably has its bases in the couplet that Naqshbandi quoted. However, it is an undeniable fact that he died of cholera, which is confirmed by his own relatives and friends. I have seen the testimony of his relatives, especilly, of his son, that Naqshbandi quoted before. As a matter of principle, I do not take anything printed at internet seriously, no matter who the author, until it is verified by at least two printed sources that favor the point and two printed sources that stand against the point. Since I have not verified the circumstances of the death of Mirza Sahib in this manner, therefore, I have no opinion in this matter. Please do not extend this position to support your stance.

sattar mian,

....... why are you arguing with maulana urstruly ? .......... do you honestly think you can change sick minds that are clouded with iman and seeped in hatred for the ``other`` ?........... the reason ``muslims`` despise ahmedis with such fervor is because the ahmedi dogma shakes the very core of their belief system that has been built on lies and conjecture ............

............ however, i must say that i am surprised by your evangelical zeal in promoting another set of superstitions based on lies and conjecture !


........... as for the word ``trollop``, it is a correct description for the mothers of ALL ullema - any woman who would bring such filth into this world deserves the epithet (and much much more) .......

Re: # 174 Rizwan

The history of Mecca is one of the basic that every Muslim fifth grader knows by heart. Anyway briefly, Mecca, or Al-Harm-as-Sharif i.e. the Noble Sanctuary had that status since the Abraham (pbuh) built it. Even when idolators had their idols inside Kaaba, they kept its status of Sancturay in place. As the name suggests its a place of peace where fights, killing, hunting, pollution etc are forbidden since Abraham. Holy Prophet (pbuh) when broke the idols, he also forbade, idolators from enetering the area of Harm which extends approximately a 10 mile radius around Kaaba.

Sultan Nuruddin Zangi 1117 - 1173 AD was Sultan of Syria at the time. He and his General Salahuddin Ayubi were the first to get rid of crusaders occupation of the Holy land except Jerusalam. Zangi was issueless so he adopted Ayubi as his son. While he was at his throne in Damascus he started seeing those dreams where Holy Prophet (pbuh) appeared and repeatedly told him ``there are two blue-eyed dogs that are bothering me``. He saw this dream on every night for a month but could not understand what it meant. So he decided to go to Medina, which was under his constituency at that time. He ordered his intelligence service to look into the community and make some sense of the words of Prophet. After many weeks of thorough investigation his intelligence officers caught two European Christian converts who were living in Medina under the pretense that they were learning Islamic knowledge in the mosque of Holy Prophet. But in actuality they were crusaders who were planning to rob the body of Holy Prophet from his grave and take it to Europe and disgrace it. They had dug a tunnel almost half a mile long and had reached the grave. Sultan Nuruddin himself went into the tunnel and saw that at the very end of it one of the feet of Holy Prophet was exposed. He kissed the foot and ordered that the grave should be sealed shut. In addition he ordered that a trench be dug all around the Mosque as deep as its bottom reached the water under the ground, an estimated 300+ feet and had it filled with molten lead. The two crusaders were executed. In doing so he made sure that no enemy of Islam would ever dare commit such attrocity again. The ulema at the time realized that these place of utmost sacredness to the Muslims are more threatened by the pretenders who pretend to be Muslims rather than open enemies. So they did ijtehad and declared Medina as sanctuary as well. Since then no non-Muslim is allowed to eneter Medina without the express permission of the Amir/Mayor/Muwalli/Custodian of city of Medina - a rule that already existed for mecca.

Since then the Sawad-e-Azam of Islam i.e. Overwhelming majority of Muslims have relegated this authrity to the Amir under whose constituency falls these two scared cities. The current rulers of Saudi Arabia are thus called the Khadmeen-e-Harm ul Shareefeen i.e. custodians of Two Sanctuaries. It is incumbent upon all Muslims to obey their discretion in this regard because of the Ijtehad done by the Ulemma at the time of Nuruddin Zangi (may Allah bless his soul and shower limtless bounties upon his grave).

In this background it is easier to understand why people like Osama bin Laden especially and Sawad-e-Azam of Islam in general abhore the presence of Americans or others in the KSA.

Naqsbandi, according to you I dont have imaan, how do you know?

General Muslim Malaise.

Remain intoxicated....................

And when are you going to follow your pir, walking naked out in the street.

I dont want to have such Imaan, keep it to yourself.

when someone becomes abusive, you know it is because they have no argument to the facts. `the evidence by the son cannot be found...` is the final refuge of the scoundrel...


riz: before you talk about irfan you have to have imaan--something you qadianis don`t have so become a mumin first...

Dont you understand Naqshbandi is an idiot: Quran as perfect book describes a solution for every situation.

[25:64] And the true servants of the Gracious God are those who walk on the earth humbly and when the ignorant address them, they avoid them gracefully by saying, `Peace!`

As Mr. Naqshbandi could not describe the Irfan of a naked, intoxicated pir, then what you expect from him?

Naqshbandi (#175):

... you stupid f^ck ... I have asked you several times if you read the material yourself ... or if this is from a web-site?? What web-site is it ...if any ?

Urstruly looked into your claim ... and found it to be without merit.

Now get your head out of your ass ... and think straight ... you moron. I am asking very simple questions here ...

sattar, don`t blame me: his own son described his last moments as i have already quoted earlier....

Urstruly the points you enumerated for exclusion are filled with errors, Off course not supported by Quran. How can it be.

You have been labelled ``Evasive``, which I am finding to be true.

Now explain to us, by what manner this area was initially 10 mile, then extended by Noor-ud-din and then extended to entire SA. Was it,

1. King of SA was informed directly by God to expand it, if yes, was it wahee.
2. There was a serect communication left behind by Holy Prophet for King of SA
3. Anythins else that you can come up with?

This is what Urstruly Wrote in # 146.

I think, seriously, that such kind of people need to be reformed. I am taking Urstruly as a patient, very sick one, who need immediate psychiatrist help. For two reason,

1. Becuasue of their frivilous actions they have tried to distort the Good Name of Islam.
2. To introduce the world with the real Teachings of Quran, Which as Quran says in Sura-Bani-Israel, are like medicine for spiritual/moral needs of human kind. Now most of the Non-Muslims think, Muslims are like Urstruly; We need to show them no all of them are like him. Muslims never has a dry patch.

---

Urstruly Wrote:

Yes there is a list of exclusions:

1. A non-Muslim is not allowed to proselytize Muslim subjects of state because the maximum punishment for apostasy is death according every school of jurist thought in Islam. So if a non-Muslim is allowed to proselytize Muslims, the law becomes contrdictory.

2. A non-Muslim is not allowed to practice his faith in a Muslim place of worship, i.e. Mosque

3. A non-Muslim is not allowed to practice his faith in the place of `Harm` ulness he is Christian or Jew. The place of Harm Shareef is an area of a radius of approx. 10 miles around the city of Mecca. During the time of Sultan Nuruddin Zangi (May Allah be pleased with him and grant him high place in heaven) the area of Harm Shareef was extended to include the 10 mile area around the of Mosque of the Prophet (pbuh) - Masjid-e- Nabwi in Medina as well. And in 1918 with Kingdom of Saudi Arabia became a nation state, this area was extended to the borders of the state.

Urstruly (#168):

“okay you win …”

Huh … is this all I get???

You made “children of prostitutes” remark about Mirza Sahib. Then you denied making disparaging comments against Mirza Sahib. When taken to the task, you tried to prove the “children of prostitutes” allegation. Finally you realize you were on the wrong track all along.

… how about a f^cking apology??????

#170,

huh? you were the one who claimed that `we` didn`t care about bahai`s beliefs...now you are talking about `shia doctrine` and pointers...is Egypt a shia country?

Re: # 169

I don`t know. We have to take each incidence on case by case basis. We should also look into Shia doctrine in this regard and the Islamic law that they have derived from it and imposed (if any). I`d appreciate some pointers in this direction.

#168:

how about the bahais? why are `we` demolishing their holy places of worships and tombs and houses if `we` couldn`t care less about their beliefs?

Re: # 166 you make a compelling case. I think sikhs are favored because of their beards