Hazrat Sarmad Shaheed: The Naked Sufi Martyr

any sane muslim can see that a person who falls in love with boys and roams about naked is as far away from Islam as is the satan himself....
and bigger fools r those who stand at the graves of such mulhideen....

10. Traditional Sunnis, i.e. those who regard Hazrat Sarmad as a saint and martyr, also consider Hazrat Aurangzeb as a saint too.

[Height of Hypocrisy]

The eye-catching question arises in my mind is that what the hell of time had with Baadshah Aurangzeb to infiltrate in the religious autonomy of a Majzoob and abort from him his chauvinism.

Was he so insecure about the religious syndromes that wanted to subdue the religious view arising among people? I think the Baadshah shouldn’t have any rights to ask from anyone about his/her religion association and inspiration.

And it is antidotes of his Baadshahat that he killed an innocent person who didn’t commit any crime and may be he was a psychological.

The blame just comes on Aurangzeb’s monarchy to kill the resistance in the name of Islam. The murdered can definitely be written in books who didn’t refrain from his consistent philosophy about religion in his school of reference despite of Baadmashiat in the form of religious scholars in the court of Baadshah who have the godly rights to acknowledge religion ship to any person.

The dogma of religion practiced at those times would definitely be historically different. And thus we of nowadays where there are more people effected by malfunctioning system and are half enlightened can’t truly relate to the happening of then and there.

Therefore the most appropriate thing which comes in mind after reading this article is to condemn the ruthless killing of an innocent man in Sultant-e-KhudaDaad where Baadshah is the supreme without true anticipation of Islam. Where people with naked swords kill in split second if person doesn’t recite Kalimah. This explains too much of chronological autocracy in spreading Islam by influence of malice than preaching and teaching.

sattar,

.... thank you for standing up to the hateful and spiteful mullahs who are bent upon destroying civilization ....... thank you for saying all the things that i always wanted to say but was afraid of being struck by a lightening bolt (you see, my lack of faith is not above petty superstitions !) ........... i particularly liked the following description of those who wear a beard without a moustache and are given to unnecessarily upending themselves five times a day :

deluded, dubious imbeciles
little fuking angel
chicken $hit
a swine and a eunuch
sanctimonious haramee puppy

............ i particularly like the last one - it has a nice ring to it ........... there can be no bigger insult to a beliver except, maybe, ``a sanctimonious haramee piglet`` ...........

........... now, how do i sign up to become an ahmedi - i have heard that you guys give women and money to new converts, but since i am already married can i get everything in cash ?

takbeer ! ......... mirza sahib hu akbar ! ...... (i hope that was the right slogan)

Re: # 210 The issue of of baghiya ain`t over yet. Don`t even think that you are off the hook yet.

i ahven`t changed my story--rather you haven`t been able to substantiate a single claim of yours. so go and join your dajjal qadiani leader in jahannam...

Urstruly,

Your sources are dubious, to say the least. If you had faith, you’d have revealed your “baghi” source by now. You`re chicken $hit ...

Here’s more to your sources:

Earlier you were getting cocky about the “almisbar.com” source. But as it fell apart … you acknowledged “okay sattar … you win”.

But then you found another source that you thought established your point. Turns out you were mixing up references. And your excitement has since subsided. Do you see a pattern?

But this comedy from you is nothing new …

- You claim 450+ ahadith on end of prophethood, but are unable to cite a single one. Is it supposed to be a secret or what??. The first one you cited proves continuation of prophethood! Apparently you did not even bother to read it!!! wtf??? To make matters worse, you can’t even explain how you count 450.

- According to your sources, Ahmadi conspiracies had a hand in subcontinent partition riots. Your sources turned out to be “people you’d talked to”. What the fuck is this??

- Now go back to your ullema … and ask them about a two-thousand year old prophet who resides above the clouds. Believe me … they will quote from quran, hadith, and arabic grammar to prove this nonsense. What can I say …

- According to your sources adulterers should be killed. When cornered that Quran specifies “lashes” … you commented … like a little (fucking) angel … Prophet showed us that rajm is the right way to implement Qruanic commandment! What the hell does this mean? You see “lashes” written … and insist it is “rajm”?? How the hell do you manage this delusion??

You and your sources are deluded, dubious imbeciles. Look up the references I listed … pickup any dictionary if you’d like. And if this is not enough, go screw yourself ...


Speaking of imbeciles …

Naqshbandi … re #190: When asked to substantiate your story, you changed it. You’re a swine and a eunuch.

Although Urstruly does not like this to be mentioned … but he found your claim to be without merit. Don’t tell him I told you this … he may get upset ... (which also puzzles me …)

And the same applies to you too … I mean … go screw yourself … you sanctimonious haramee puppy …


... is it too late to wish you both a good weekend????

Click here to read Hazrat Jami`s Yusuf o Zuleykha online in English translation in full!

Re: # 203 hamidm

You Zuriyat-ul-Baghiya, shut up ;)

Re: # 206

Why do all the Arabic sources I consult, have only one meaning for Baghaya. And your last post is just a summary of what is posted on Quadiani websites to defend on this issue by apologists. To me Taj ul-urus is an acceptable third party source and so is Lane`s lexicon. I just want to see with my own eyes that what you say is supported by these documents.

As far as your repeated question on ``Last prophet-last mosque`` is concerned, I am not gonna fall for this diversionary tactic. When the time will come we will discuss that too. You know where to find me. lets deal the issue at hand first.

Urstruly (#205):

As I explained and cited from various Arabic sources, “baghi” has different meanings and connotations. If you are focused on only one meaning that suits your ill-conceived purpose, that’s your problem. To a person with a hammer, everything appears to be a nail.

In your list of potential meanings of baghayya … you conveniently left out … “oppressed, misguided, those from whom blessings of Allah have departed”. I cited Lane to support this view. If you reject it, it’s your problem.

Will you ever address the “last prophet and last mosque” hadith? Also, will you ever reveal your source on this issue?

What are you hiding?

Re: # 204

I disagree with your contention and along with me does the so-called ``compiler`` of Mirza sahibs book. I have checked various other Arabic to English dictionaries and found the same results i.e. Baghaya is the plural of several words that are used for Prostitute.

It seems that your only option is that if you post the page from Taj-ul Urus here where it explains this word according to you. As far as context of this phrase is concerned it is very specific: Here is a translation from a Quadiani source:

`` ``Every Muslim will accept me and will confirm my claim except the zurrayatul baghaya whose hearts will have been sealed up by God Almighty.`` (Aina-e-Kamalat-e-Islam, Roohani Khazain vol.5 p.547)``

The word Zurrayat is equivalent to the english equivalent ``Offspring`` and Baghaya is the word in contention. So it could be:

Offspring of Prostitutes

or

Offspring of misguided women

Please post an image of Taj ul Urus to prove your point otherwise I have had enough of this discussion.

Urstruly (#189):

There are some errors and incorrect conclusions in your post. I have addressed those and explained as needed.

1. Explanation of terms you showed is not written by Mirza Sahib, but by compiler of his writings. These writings were put together after Mirza Sahib’s demise, and the glossary, explanations etc. are the works of compiler.

2. You are referring to volume 16 … where reference is specifically made to women with sinful tendencies. As it explains, according to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) an increase in number of such women will be seen at the onset of the days of dajjal. This seems to suggest a general decline of morality … marked by a relative rise in promiscuity. Note the context here.

3. The reference in question … zurayatul-baghayya (“children of baghayya”) … shows up not in volume 16, but in volume 5, in entirely different context. Glossary from volume 16 does not apply to volume 5. In volume 5 Mirza Sahib refers to his opponents as people without guidance. Arab lexicon Tajul Urus describes the term to mean “one without guidance”. From what I know, one of the meaning of baghi … as mentioned in Tajul Urus … is that of a female slave.

The reference here suggests lack of moral courage. Being enslaved and subjugated causes people to lose qualities of courage. Being born to a slave makes matters worse. Such a person posses little strength to accept truth when faced with it. That’s the implication of “children of baghi”.

4. For further reference, I looked up meaning of the root word … “bagha” … in an Arabic dictionary I have. It lists … “to transgress, pass beyond bounds, act unjustly, lie, oppress anyone, treat unjustly, hate ...”. It covers the meaning that I have suggested all along.

5. For still further reference, I checked Lane’s lexicon … which includes in the explanation of the word “baghy’n” as … “…acting wrongfully, unjustly, tyrannically; because the envier so acts towards the envied; his endeavor being to cause, by guile, the blessing of God upon him to depart from him …”. This meaning is very close (almost identical?) to what I have supported all along.

6. In short, you seem to have mixed up references … and drawn incorrect conclusions. I admit that I was not aware that one of the meaning of “baghi” has sexual connotations. Live and learn. But as I explained above “bagha” connotes people who transgress, oppress, lie, are unjust … and more. It may be used in several contexts. The context in question … as supported by Arabic lexicon Tajul Urus, does not have sexual connotations. Non-sexual meanings are also supported by the additional references I have listed above.

7. Mirza Sahib wrote 81-or-so books. Is this all you find objectionable in his writings? One word … all this effort … and still nothing to show for it. Why this infatuation with “children of prostitutes” label? You seem to be bent upon interpreting it that way.

8. Note that Quran, when referring to rebellious people, calls them apes and swine, and dogs, and donkeys. You may also find this objectionable.

9. Going back to courage issue … how about the hadith you yourself quoted … “I am the last prophet and this mosque of mine is the last mosque” …? It plainly suggests continuation of prophethood. When will you respond?

10. It is now time for you to reveal your source on “baghi” issue. After much prodding, Naqshbandi finally came clean. His source turns out to be a sub-intelligent, hate-filled web-mullah … who is twisting facts and making things up. It is your turn now. Is your source similar ? Is it the same?

tom friedman wants us to identify the top 10 hatemongers of the year

nyt

.......... i propose urstruly for his relentless diatribes against the ahmedis ......

the second website was

http://bahai-library.com/?file=hassall_egypt

Re: # 200 Concerned

You have to give more information to me than this and some independent sources to verify it.

The following is the ``2000 Annual Report on International Religious Freedom:
Executive Summary``, under Egypt I saw nothing was happening to Bihaiis. Now this report was compiled by Americans, who are liars and thieves by nature, so I am not sure if this report can be trusted.

http://www.uga.edu/bahai/News/090500-1.html

Another serach of Bihaii+persecution brought me to this website. Apparently this website is operated by Bihaiis themselves. Under birth registration and recognition of religion I found this `` In Muslim countries of the near and middle east only recognised religions were entitled to establish ecclesiastical courts, which presided over matters of personal status, such as registration of birth, marriage, divorce, and inheritance. When the Muslim ecclesiastical courts denounced Egyptian Bahá`ís as heretics, who were not entitled to the benefits of Muslim law, the Bahá`ís appealed to the Egyptian government.

On 10 May 1925 an Islamic court pronounced the Faith to be independent of Islam. (Report BW II 1926-28, 31-33) (See WOB,10-12; Guardian`s communications 10/1/26; 12 January 1927 in Bahá`í Administration) Hippolite Dreyus-Barney assisted the Egyptian Bahá`ís in lifting some of the persecution they received (BWIII,210).``

Apparently this report is from 1926 & 1927, I did not find anything that suggests that the practice continues today. Since in 1925 the Islamic court pronounced Bahiis the non-Muslim I am having trouble with your statement when you said that ``Seems to me that first `we` are forcing the bahais to call themselves muslims and then persecuting them based on the `qualifier`....`` From your statement it is clear that Egyptian forms do not have a column titled ``Other (Explain)........`` under religious catagory; and although Bihaiis have an option to declare themselves Christians or Jews too but they find themselves forecd to register as Muslims. Something doesn`t add up.

Following is a copy of the Application form for Egyptian Passport, and I did not see a column for religion:



Following is an online application form for Egyptian National ID, I also did not find any column for identification of religion either:

https://secure.cso.gov.eg/prerequest.aspx?serviceid=2

[case by case basis...It really depends on which side of the fence you are standing...]

Case of Egypt:

[The Government`s new software requires all citizens to be categorized as Muslims, Christians, or Jews. Baha`is and other religious groups who do not fit into any of these categories have been compelled either to misrepresent themselves as members of one of these three religions or to go without valid identity documents, passports, birth and death certificates, and marriage licenses]

Clear cut case...Seems to me that first `we` are forcing the bahais to call themselves muslims and then persecuting them based on the `qualifier`....Is this systematic persecution? which side of the fence are you standing?

Case of Iran:

[destruction of the tomb of Quddus, a Baha`i holy site. Local Baha`is attempted to prevent the destruction through legal channels, but the tomb was destroyed in the interim. The Baha`is were not allowed permission to enter the site and retrieve the remains of this revered Baha`i figure. On June 27, the house of the father of the faith`s founder, Mirza Buzarg-e-Nuri, was destroyed without notice. Since 1979 more than 200 Baha`is have been killed, 15 have disappeared and are presumed dead, and more than 10,000 Baha`is have been dismissed from government and university jobs]

Which side of the fence are you standing?

Urstruly (#189):

Try to avoid making blanket statements. Your post seems to be indicative of your own state of mind.

I think “everybody is a liar”? Where are you getting this stuff from? And it was on basis of dictionary that I showed your interpretation to be incorrect … which you accepted. So why blame me now?

If after seeing violent views of mullah and their persecution of Ahamdis I am skeptical of ullema … why blame me?

I’ll review the stuff you posted … and respond as I find information. In the mean time, would you be kind enough to explain the hadith … “I am the last prophet and this mosque of mine is the last mosque” …? Doesn’t this hadith strongly support continuation of prophethood? You posted this hadith ... and are now quiet on it. What gives?

PS: I am curious … from where did you get this copy? You seem to be working very hard on this issue. Furthermore, don’t forget to mention (#198) that an Ahmadi may be imprisoned for claiming to be a Muslim … and an apostate may be killed in your Islamic state for simply leaving Islam ... and that you don’t think any of this is unfair … or constitutes persecution.

Re: # 197

Iwill accept that only on case by case basis and not as a principle. For example, in Pakistan, a Christian, who calls himself a Christain openly and never even pretended to be a Muslim, ever, may be prosecuated for violating the law of the land if he by defiles Quran or Holy Prophet (pbuh). Some may call it persecution and systematic persecution too. It really depends on which side of the fence you are standing,

[...we don`t know that either...]

since `we` don`t know...`we` can`t claim that `x group of people will not be persecuted if they stop calling themselves muslims`...i hope you accept that.

Re: # 195

or respective governments in Egypt and Iran might have a systematic policy of persecution of minorities, we don`t know that either.

#194:

[...Was the qualifier violated? I don`t know? And I asked you if you know then give me some pointers...]

the `qualifier` is `calling themselves muslims`, right? are you suggesting that the `incidents` were probably provoked by the fact that the bahais suddenly calling themselves muslims thereby violating the qualifer?

[...He also said that I couldn`t because they do not invite Muslims to their places of worship...]

there is a bahai place of worship in new delhi...there is no guard at the gate asking people`s religion before letting them in.

Re: # 193

We have already discussed this. The main qualifier for the condition that was put forth was, as you quoted `` `if x group of people stop calling themselves muslims when they follow practices that we don`t consider islamic, we will not persecute them``. I also added that I do not know the background of incidents that happened in Egypt and Iran. Was the qualifier violated? I don`t know? And I asked you if you know then give me some pointers.

My personal experience with Bihaiis is that with a classmate who originally belonged to Baluchistan and was studying in Karachi with me. He had a very Muslim name and I had no idea about his faith until one day when we were going somewhere on my bike, he asked me to stop by at a Bihaii temple. He had to take care of some quick errand there. At that time I had very little knowledge about bihaii faith and I was of an opinion that it was some off shoot of Shia doctrine. Keeping his name in mind I asked him if I could see his ``mosque`` from inside. First he corrected me that it was not a mosque but a (.-.-.--.-.) (I have forgotten what word did he use - probably Maa`bad. He also said that I couldn`t because they do not invite Muslims to their places of worship. He also vhemently said that although his name sounded Muslim he wasn`t. He reiterated that he was Bihaii not Muslim. In Baluchistan and Karachi there is a considerable population of Bihais, he told me that number in Karachi which I have forgotten - probably 5000+ but I have never heard any hostile remarks about them in any part of Pakistan. He moved to US later and he and his family now liked to be called with names like joe, bob and brenda etc.

#192:

you argued along the lines of - `if x group of people stop calling themselves muslims when they follow practices that we don`t consider islamic, we will not persecute them`... and you gave the example of bahais to imply that since `they have stopped calling themselves muslims, we couldn`t care less about what their beliefs are`

i gave you examples of continued persecution of bahais, the destruction of their holy places, tombs, houses, killings, etc...in both a sunni country and a shia country implying that you still persecute them.

so now you can either argue that whatever is happening to bahais in iran and egypt is not persecution, or take your original argument back.

Re: # 191

I am not sure what your question is. I told you that I am unaware of the background of the incidents that you have quoted. And even if I find out the background then what am I required to do?

urstruly,

what happened to the discussion about bahais? are you evaluating shia doctrine, sunni doctrine or...muslim doctrine?

Naqshbandi (#188):

You are changing your story.

I reviewed the link you posted. What it says is different from the original claim you made (which I’ll avoid repeating).

The claim in question … as I’ve repeated … was found to be without merit by beerader Urstruly. Can you substantiate it? Once we are done with it, we can review your next claim. Agreed?

I hope you see how words, ideas, stories get twisted … and fabricated. This applies also to your favorite … the WMD issue. And you have a problem with the White House??

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

As a side note … ullema at your web-site also think that Jewish-Qadiani lobby had a hand in Dr. Salam getting the nobel prize. Click to read juicy details:

Click [Dr. Salam and Nobel Prize … according to ullema.]

Should I believe this also???

Re: # 187 sattar

sometimes I find your arrogance on the verge of pathelogically insanity. Everybody except you is a liar, crook, or out there to harm you. You do not belive in dictionaries. You do not belive in explanations and tell me you don`t believe this either. This is a photocopy of the index of Mirza Sahib`s book ``Roohani Khazain Volume 16`` (Heavenly Treasures - some treasures eh) where he himself has explained what he means by word Baghiya. Is there any doubt now what he meant by this word. As he explanation goes, he means that those households where there are women of bad character the men become ``Dayuth``; the word Dayuth is another epithet which is used to describe a man who invites other men to his wife for sexual congress. Give it up because now I wont.

http://www.irshad.org/exposed/death.php

This was the website I posted the info from although I have heard and read the same from countless other sources too both online and offline.

Urstruly (#184),

If you ascribe additional meaning to what I say, that’s your problem, not mine.

If Naqshbandi fails to support his claims, they become invalid. Right?? I pointed out that you (Urstruly) too looked into this claim, and found them to be without merit. So what`s the problem here?

Similarly, you failed to substantiate your claim on “children of prostitutes” issue. Which renders your claim invalid. Why is this so difficult for you to understand???

Can we now review your claims of thorough research, your sources on “children of prostitutes” issue, and the “last prophet and last mosque” hadith? Or would you rather avoid these topics?

Urstruly and Naqshbandi,

YOU ARE NOT WORTH A PENNY IF YOU REMIAN EVASIVE AND DO NOT ANSWER

WHAT KIND OF IRFAN IS OBTAINED BY REMAINING NAKED

WHAT KIND OF MAJZOOB HE WAS, WHAT IS MAJZOOB?

I can see you are willing to talk about any other divergent topic, but

NOT THE ARTICLE, PIECE OF SCRAP YOU WROTE.

Mr Urstruly, # 180

I dont know how much this story of Noor-ud-din is stretched/extended. Accurate historical account of the incident narrates that there was actually such an attempt. Now, if the tunnel went as far as Holy Prophet feet is pure myth and falsehood.

What noor-ud-din did was a brillant administrative action at that time, it achieved the purpose at that time, it solved the problem at that time. It enahnced the security of that time. If one is a king at that time, and he is entrusted with administration of a state, then prime responsiblity is keeping peace and avoiding disturbance, avoiding any isssue which will have damaging repurcussions.

Apart from that, as a Muslim, safeguarding resting place of Holy Prophet is prime objective of any Muslim.

Now the times has changed, the threat which was present in noor-ud-din time, is not present in that form any more. With modern security/electronic survalence etc, that objective of safeguarding Masjid Nabwi is established much better. It does not require restricting all and sundry from even setting foot in medina. Off course be cautious and take all necessary safety measures. but DO NOT GET STUCK IN OLD TIME.

Action of noor-ud-din was APPROPRIATE AT THAT TIME, NOT NOW.

Re: # 183

You have a bad habbit of twisting ones words, which is in line with the vile Quadiani practices. I said that the circumstances of Mirza Sahibs death on several accounts from either sides are unsubstantiated to me and me alone . I cannot speak on behalf of other people and thus my ignorance should not be taken as an evidence that something may or may not have happened.

By the way, I do not like to discuss Mirza Sahib`s death, its cricumstances or anything realted to it. I do not want any conclusions drawn from whatever the circumstances might be - death is an inevitability that may occur anywhere; it will happen to us all no matter how much we try to control its circumstances. So even if Mirza Sahib died in a compromising situation, it means nothing to me; unless God Himself tells me that he caused the death of Mirza Sahib in such and such circumstances because he pretended to be a false prophet, any speculation on his death is a superstition of my mind or my bigotry. I do not believe in superstition and even though I am a fairly above average kind of bigot I try to keep it in check as well.

As far as the meaning of ``Zuriyat-ul-baghiyya`` is concerned I have provided you with an evidence from an English/Arabic dictionary, whereas to support your claim you have provided no third party evidence. All we have is your word, which practically means nothing. So this discussion is closed from my side until you support your claim with more than mere words.

Naqshbandi (#178):

You started propaganda against Mirza Sahib. Since you neither substantiate your filthy claims, nor recant them, you certainly deserve a few choice abuses.

I have asked a simple question all along ... did you read the actual material yourself, or are you getting it from a web-site? If it is a web-site, can you provide a link?

You are unable to respond to a simple question. Are you being honest or simply blowing smoke?


Urstruly (#182):

You agree that basis of Naqshbandi’s couplet remain unsubstantiated. Which is what I have said all along. Read my post #176 again … with open eyes this time.

Regarding your noble research that you are seemingly proud of … what about the “children of prostitutes” issue? I distinctly recall your earlier claim that you can easily prove this. You now admit it was a mistake. What happened? Did your zeal and ullema mislead you? Care to share your resource?

And I am still waiting to hear an explanation of the hadith you quoted … “I am the last prophet and this mosque of mine is the last mosque” …? If anything, this hadith strongly supports continuation of prophethood. Care to share your dignified research on this one??

Once you do this, we can look into the cholera issue (which too is incorrect!!). Deal?


hamidm (#181):

What is truth and what is lies … is somewhat of a matter of perspective. I am comfortable with my take on things. The basic principle remains that one must maintain sincerity and dignity in one’s thoughts, discussions, and actions. That’s my main contention with Urstruly and Naqshbandi here. Besides that, who one accepts as god, prophet, pimp, or a prostitute … is better left to each person’s own view, intellect, and belief.

If you think Ahmadi views are based on lies … that’s your view … which too I am comfortable with. I am not trying to prove myself right ... but only showing that my views are valid.

Re: # 176

Please do not attribute to me the things that I have not said.

We have discussed this before that I did not find any evidence that Mirza Sahib collapsed into the toilet bowl and died there, which is prevailing assumption among Muslims, which, probably has its bases in the couplet that Naqshbandi quoted. However, it is an undeniable fact that he died of cholera, which is confirmed by his own relatives and friends. I have seen the testimony of his relatives, especilly, of his son, that Naqshbandi quoted before. As a matter of principle, I do not take anything printed at internet seriously, no matter who the author, until it is verified by at least two printed sources that favor the point and two printed sources that stand against the point. Since I have not verified the circumstances of the death of Mirza Sahib in this manner, therefore, I have no opinion in this matter. Please do not extend this position to support your stance.

sattar mian,

....... why are you arguing with maulana urstruly ? .......... do you honestly think you can change sick minds that are clouded with iman and seeped in hatred for the ``other`` ?........... the reason ``muslims`` despise ahmedis with such fervor is because the ahmedi dogma shakes the very core of their belief system that has been built on lies and conjecture ............

............ however, i must say that i am surprised by your evangelical zeal in promoting another set of superstitions based on lies and conjecture !


........... as for the word ``trollop``, it is a correct description for the mothers of ALL ullema - any woman who would bring such filth into this world deserves the epithet (and much much more) .......

Re: # 174 Rizwan

The history of Mecca is one of the basic that every Muslim fifth grader knows by heart. Anyway briefly, Mecca, or Al-Harm-as-Sharif i.e. the Noble Sanctuary had that status since the Abraham (pbuh) built it. Even when idolators had their idols inside Kaaba, they kept its status of Sancturay in place. As the name suggests its a place of peace where fights, killing, hunting, pollution etc are forbidden since Abraham. Holy Prophet (pbuh) when broke the idols, he also forbade, idolators from enetering the area of Harm which extends approximately a 10 mile radius around Kaaba.

Sultan Nuruddin Zangi 1117 - 1173 AD was Sultan of Syria at the time. He and his General Salahuddin Ayubi were the first to get rid of crusaders occupation of the Holy land except Jerusalam. Zangi was issueless so he adopted Ayubi as his son. While he was at his throne in Damascus he started seeing those dreams where Holy Prophet (pbuh) appeared and repeatedly told him ``there are two blue-eyed dogs that are bothering me``. He saw this dream on every night for a month but could not understand what it meant. So he decided to go to Medina, which was under his constituency at that time. He ordered his intelligence service to look into the community and make some sense of the words of Prophet. After many weeks of thorough investigation his intelligence officers caught two European Christian converts who were living in Medina under the pretense that they were learning Islamic knowledge in the mosque of Holy Prophet. But in actuality they were crusaders who were planning to rob the body of Holy Prophet from his grave and take it to Europe and disgrace it. They had dug a tunnel almost half a mile long and had reached the grave. Sultan Nuruddin himself went into the tunnel and saw that at the very end of it one of the feet of Holy Prophet was exposed. He kissed the foot and ordered that the grave should be sealed shut. In addition he ordered that a trench be dug all around the Mosque as deep as its bottom reached the water under the ground, an estimated 300+ feet and had it filled with molten lead. The two crusaders were executed. In doing so he made sure that no enemy of Islam would ever dare commit such attrocity again. The ulema at the time realized that these place of utmost sacredness to the Muslims are more threatened by the pretenders who pretend to be Muslims rather than open enemies. So they did ijtehad and declared Medina as sanctuary as well. Since then no non-Muslim is allowed to eneter Medina without the express permission of the Amir/Mayor/Muwalli/Custodian of city of Medina - a rule that already existed for mecca.

Since then the Sawad-e-Azam of Islam i.e. Overwhelming majority of Muslims have relegated this authrity to the Amir under whose constituency falls these two scared cities. The current rulers of Saudi Arabia are thus called the Khadmeen-e-Harm ul Shareefeen i.e. custodians of Two Sanctuaries. It is incumbent upon all Muslims to obey their discretion in this regard because of the Ijtehad done by the Ulemma at the time of Nuruddin Zangi (may Allah bless his soul and shower limtless bounties upon his grave).

In this background it is easier to understand why people like Osama bin Laden especially and Sawad-e-Azam of Islam in general abhore the presence of Americans or others in the KSA.

Naqsbandi, according to you I dont have imaan, how do you know?

General Muslim Malaise.

Remain intoxicated....................

And when are you going to follow your pir, walking naked out in the street.

I dont want to have such Imaan, keep it to yourself.

when someone becomes abusive, you know it is because they have no argument to the facts. `the evidence by the son cannot be found...` is the final refuge of the scoundrel...


riz: before you talk about irfan you have to have imaan--something you qadianis don`t have so become a mumin first...

Dont you understand Naqshbandi is an idiot: Quran as perfect book describes a solution for every situation.

[25:64] And the true servants of the Gracious God are those who walk on the earth humbly and when the ignorant address them, they avoid them gracefully by saying, `Peace!`

As Mr. Naqshbandi could not describe the Irfan of a naked, intoxicated pir, then what you expect from him?

Naqshbandi (#175):

... you stupid f^ck ... I have asked you several times if you read the material yourself ... or if this is from a web-site?? What web-site is it ...if any ?

Urstruly looked into your claim ... and found it to be without merit.

Now get your head out of your ass ... and think straight ... you moron. I am asking very simple questions here ...

sattar, don`t blame me: his own son described his last moments as i have already quoted earlier....

Urstruly the points you enumerated for exclusion are filled with errors, Off course not supported by Quran. How can it be.

You have been labelled ``Evasive``, which I am finding to be true.

Now explain to us, by what manner this area was initially 10 mile, then extended by Noor-ud-din and then extended to entire SA. Was it,

1. King of SA was informed directly by God to expand it, if yes, was it wahee.
2. There was a serect communication left behind by Holy Prophet for King of SA
3. Anythins else that you can come up with?

This is what Urstruly Wrote in # 146.

I think, seriously, that such kind of people need to be reformed. I am taking Urstruly as a patient, very sick one, who need immediate psychiatrist help. For two reason,

1. Becuasue of their frivilous actions they have tried to distort the Good Name of Islam.
2. To introduce the world with the real Teachings of Quran, Which as Quran says in Sura-Bani-Israel, are like medicine for spiritual/moral needs of human kind. Now most of the Non-Muslims think, Muslims are like Urstruly; We need to show them no all of them are like him. Muslims never has a dry patch.

---

Urstruly Wrote:

Yes there is a list of exclusions:

1. A non-Muslim is not allowed to proselytize Muslim subjects of state because the maximum punishment for apostasy is death according every school of jurist thought in Islam. So if a non-Muslim is allowed to proselytize Muslims, the law becomes contrdictory.

2. A non-Muslim is not allowed to practice his faith in a Muslim place of worship, i.e. Mosque

3. A non-Muslim is not allowed to practice his faith in the place of `Harm` ulness he is Christian or Jew. The place of Harm Shareef is an area of a radius of approx. 10 miles around the city of Mecca. During the time of Sultan Nuruddin Zangi (May Allah be pleased with him and grant him high place in heaven) the area of Harm Shareef was extended to include the 10 mile area around the of Mosque of the Prophet (pbuh) - Masjid-e- Nabwi in Medina as well. And in 1918 with Kingdom of Saudi Arabia became a nation state, this area was extended to the borders of the state.

Urstruly (#168):

“okay you win …”

Huh … is this all I get???

You made “children of prostitutes” remark about Mirza Sahib. Then you denied making disparaging comments against Mirza Sahib. When taken to the task, you tried to prove the “children of prostitutes” allegation. Finally you realize you were on the wrong track all along.

… how about a f^cking apology??????

#170,

huh? you were the one who claimed that `we` didn`t care about bahai`s beliefs...now you are talking about `shia doctrine` and pointers...is Egypt a shia country?

Re: # 169

I don`t know. We have to take each incidence on case by case basis. We should also look into Shia doctrine in this regard and the Islamic law that they have derived from it and imposed (if any). I`d appreciate some pointers in this direction.

#168:

how about the bahais? why are `we` demolishing their holy places of worships and tombs and houses if `we` couldn`t care less about their beliefs?

Re: # 166 you make a compelling case. I think sikhs are favored because of their beards

Re: # 165

okay you win. But what kind of prophet would address and involve the mothers of his opponents in such a compromising language.

[...UAE has two sikh temples, which means it is not a government policy to restrict number of temples. Even the presence of one hindu temple proves the point...]

it only proves that ONE temple is ALLOWED. and two gurudwaras are ALLOWED (for whatever reasons). The policy is to restrict the number of temples to one.

[...a minor faction doesn`t...]

and all the policies of Iran and Egypt are directed to THAT minor faction? including the destruction of the tomb of Quddus and the house of Baha`u`llah?

Urstruly (#163):

The problem is your filthy mind. Read on to see how …

1. According to Dictionary.com … a web-site you recommended … the first meaning of trollop is “A woman regarded as slovenly or untidy”. Since this did not fit your purpose, you have now moved on to another web-site (Encarta)…

2. From Encarta, note the second meaning you listed … which makes reference to a woman’s appearance and her habits … without mentioning her sexual behavior or if she is a prostitute. So why do you insist that it can only mean a “prostitute”??

3. Furthermore, as I explained, the Arabic authority, Taj-ul-Urs, explains the Arabic idiom as … “people without guidance”. So what’s your problem now?

What is this fetish with being labeled as one of “children of prostitutes”? As you try to dig up filth ... you are only sinking lower.

Re: # 162 Concernd

UAE has two sikh temples, which means it is not a government policy to restrict number of temples. Even the presence of one hindu temple proves the point.

As far as the issue of bihaiis is concerned, they have two factions. One completely dissociates themselves from Islam and a minor faction doesn`t. The issue of proselytization among Muslim subjects is throny and creats problems.

Re: # 161

I beg to differ. It is not the matter of synonimity but that of implication. For example the Urdu phrase `Gandi aurat` has two implication - literally it may mean an untidy woman but in actuality it is meant to describe a women of loose character - in urdu lexicon the implied meaning is taken as the actual meaning of the phrase and not the literal ones.

So if you say this to third person that ``meri maaN aik gandi aurat hay``, he will hold his breath and wait for the explanation as to what did you actually mean by that. But the phrase ``PhohaR aurat`` has only one meaning and there is no implication, although it also means an untidy woman.

Here is what MSN Encarta Dictionary has to say about the Word ``Trollop``. See that in all its implications it is a derogatory word:


trol·lop [ trólləp ] (plural trol·lops)


noun

1. an offensive term that deliberately insults a woman who is a prostitute or who is reputed to be sexually promiscuous ( dated insult )


2. an offensive term that deliberately insults a girl or woman regarded as slovenly or as having untidy habits ( insult )



trol·lop·yadj

urstruly,

[...This is the reason Hindus are not allowed to establish a temple in KSA, whereas they have temples in all all surrounding Arab and Muslim countries, where they worship freely...]

just consider UAE which is likely to have a good number of hindus, ALLOWS one temple (i guess in dubai). there is not a single hindu temple anywhere else in the country. not quite the rosy picture you portray...

[...just like Bihai`is who do not call themselves Muslims now and we care less what their beliefs are...]

do you mean baha`is? who is `we`? consider iran (shiite) and eqypt (sunni) -

1. In Iran, where The Baha`i Faith originated during the 1840s, the Government considers Baha`is to be apostates despite the fact that Baha`is do not consider themselves to be Muslims.

In February authorities initiated the destruction of the tomb of Quddus, a Baha`i holy site. Local Baha`is attempted to prevent the destruction through legal channels, but the tomb was destroyed in the interim. The Baha`is were not allowed permission to enter the site and retrieve the remains of this revered Baha`i figure. On June 27, the house of the father of the faith`s founder, Mirza Buzarg-e-Nuri, was destroyed without notice. The house was confiscated before by the Government and was of great religious significance because the founder of the Baha`i faith, Baha`u`llah, had lived there...

since 1979 more than 200 Baha`is have been killed, 15 have disappeared and are presumed dead, and more than 10,000 Baha`is have been dismissed from government and university jobs. The Government continued to imprison and detain Baha`is based on their religious beliefs.

2. In Egypt, Law 263 of 1960, which is still in force, bans Baha`i institutions and community activities. The Government confiscated all Baha`i community properties, including Baha`i centers, libraries, and cemeteries. The problems of Baha`is, who number fewer than 2,000 persons in the country, have been compounded since the Ministry of Interior began to upgrade its automation of civil records, including national identity cards. The Government`s new software requires all citizens to be categorized as Muslims, Christians, or Jews. Baha`is and other religious groups who do not fit into any of these categories have been compelled either to misrepresent themselves as members of one of these three religions or to go without valid identity documents, passports, birth and death certificates, and marriage licenses. Most Baha`is have chosen the latter course.

Urstruly (#159):

Synonym is not the same as identical. You`ve failed to make your point ...

Bottom line: You`re mixing up ``an unitdy woman`` with ``a prostitute`` since it suits your purpose.

So let me ask: if a woman you know ... say your mother/sister/wife/colleague etc. ... looks untidy … would you call her a prostitute? Think carefully and respond ... if you have any dignity left ...

Re: # 158 Time is ripe, sir! I hope I did not offend by intruding in an `internal discussion`. Thanks for responding.

Re: # 158 I think people of Dictionary.com will be totally unmoved despite your moaning and groaning.
The implication in the paranthesis is theirs not mine:

Trollop = `` a dirty untidy woman [syn: slut, slovenly woman, trollop]

Urstruly (#156),

Use your tiny brain. Why do you insist on mixing up “an untidy woman” with a “prostitute”? If a woman looks untidy, would you call her a prostitute?? Dude … wake up … !!

You are trying very hard to be labeled as one of “children of prostitutes”. Why this fetish??

Is this what you call ``doing your homework``? You are not only a liar ... but also an idiot. You provided me with resources to easily show your errors ...!!!

So ... is an untidy woman the same as a prostitute? Were there ever days when your mother looked untidy?????????? This is a loaded question ... you stupid moron .... think before responding ....

What about ``last prophet and last mosque`` hadith? Either fess up ... or shut up. I can see your fetish with “children of prostitutes” … but must you continue to make an ass of yourself in public …??


southasian (#157):

Good point about “Thou shalt no blow up yourself” … !!!

Sayings of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) indicate that the prophet who will appear among Muslims will reform the twisted jihad ideology of the latter days.

God knows, if ever, this is the time for Issa-ibne-Marriam. But in light of Naqsh`s view ... it seems Issa is now playing hard to get ...

A small point for you learned gentlemen. From a bit of surfing Islam related websites and your discussions I gather that the Prophet was a wise man. When asked by people if he could perform miracles, he is supposed to have said that he was a ordinary human being chosen by Allah to convey his message only (so do not expect miracles).


My little point is that only Allah could have decided whether Mohammed would be the last prophet or somebody else. While the prophet is no more with us, now only Allah can decide the issue. If Allah wants to give a little bit more of message, he would need more Prophets since He is not in the habit of doing his own job himself. A relevant message could be something like ``Thou shalt not blow up yourself!`` and so on.

I know expecting a response from you learned guys is a bit too much of a longing considering that you are more interested in meanings of words like Baghiya.

No offences meant.

Re: # 155

You can use English to Arabic feature of dictionary and type ``Trollop`` to get the Arabic equivalent.

And I did not skip any meaning of Trollop. Look at my post below, the word Trollop has listed two meanings which I listed both. The paranthesis with the second meaning `` a dirty untidy woman [syn: slut, slovenly woman, trollop] `` explains in what sense the phrase ``dirty woman`` is being used. You cannot defend the indefensible ok.


As far as the hadith with `last mosque` is concerned I have only one comment ``yaar tumm nay zaroor jootay khaanay haiN aaj`` I have never seen a masochist to this extreme.

Urstruly (#153):

You are quick to comment when you think you have a point … but become evasive when cornered. There are a couple of issues with your post …

1. I could not get to work the Arabic part of almibsar.com web-site.

2. However, I took your word for “baghi = trollop” … and looked up “dictionary.com” as you suggested.

The first meaning listed is an untidy woman. The second meaning listed is a prostitute.

Why would you skip over “an untidy woman” … and go to “prostitute”???

3. Arabic authority … Taj-ul-Urs … explains the proverb “zuriyatul-baghayya” (children of bahgi) as “people without guidance”.

So the question goes back to you … why do you continue to insist to be labeled “children of prostitutes”? Are we supposed to know something about you?? This is not the place … you know …

+++++++++++++

Now … lets see if you really do your homework, as you boastfully claimed.

Go back to the hadith … you yourself quoted …. “I am the last prophet and this mosque of mine is the last mosque”. What does “last” mean here?

This is one discussion you want to avoid at all costs …

No clue whatsover!

Re: # 147 SATTAR

Nobody calls me a liar. By now you must know that I always do my homework.

So you say that correct translation of Arabic word ``Baghiya``, which Mirza Sahib used to describe his opponent Muslim Ulema, cannot be translated as ``KanjriyoN ke bachchay (children of whores)` but I think Arabs do not agree with you. Check this Arabic-English on line dictionary

http://www.almisbar.com/dict_page.html

The Arabic word ``Baghiya`` literally translates into the English word Trollop

Check any English Dictionary for the meaning of word ``trollop`` and you will see that Ulemma have translated the epithet correctly, for example, Dictionary.com translates it as:

Trollop = ``slattern`` n.

1: a prostitute who attracts customers by walking the streets [syn: streetwalker, street girl, hooker, hustler, floozy, floozie]
2: a dirty untidy woman [syn: slut, slovenly woman, trollop]

Hamidm: would you please shed some light here, since this is your area of expertise. And where is that grammarian temporal when you need him.

Sattar: I find it quite revealing now that where did you and hamidm got your potty mouths

Urstruly (#148):

Once again you are misrepresenting history of Islam … and hence drawing speculative, incorrect conclusions.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) broke idols in Kaba … since Kaba was originally made for worship of Allah Almighty alone, by His commandment. Prophet (pbuh) simply reclaimed in the name of Allah what was made by commandment of Allah.

Ahmadi-Muslims worship Allah Almighty … God of Quran. There is no reason why they should not be allowed to call their masjid a masjid.

Naqsh (#149, 151):

You continue to show the class of people you belong to.

Issa (pbuh) passed way just like Muhammad (pbuh) passed away. None of them is coming back. Get over it …

Hazrat Isa ibn Maryam alayhisalatu wa salam WILL descend down to Earth on the wings of two angels in Damascus, in the Umayyad mosque, at the time of the Fajr prayer. No MUSLIM has any doubts about this, only kafir qadianis don`t believe in it because it cannot fit into their minds.

Urstruly (#146):

Your post one again highlights corruption of Islam at the hands of your ullema.

You claim that maximum punishment of apostasy, according to every school of jurist thought in Islam … is death.

Note that Quran discusses apostasy in several places … without even remotely suggesting any worldly punishment for it. In essence, every school of jurist thought in Islam now has nothing to do with Quran.

Your Islam is a hodge-podge of ill-conceived violent ideas. No wonder Ahmadi-Muslims get under your skin …

i have presented a host of quranic ayats and hadith, sattar, you are the one who cannot accept them but insist on proving them `wrong` or misunderstood.

the bottom line:

agar mirza hota khuda ka nabi
tatti mein gir kar marta na kabhi

Re: # 146 further...

and the principles on which the area of Harm Shareef are established were dictated by Holy Prophet (pbuh) himself at the time of the conquest of Mecca, when he broke all the idols placed in Kaa`ba with his own hands and ordered idolators to be expelled oustside of the limits of Harm Shareef. This is the reason Hindus are not allowed to establish a temple in KSA, whereas they have temples in all all surrounding Arab and Muslim countries, where they worship freely.

Initially, Jews and Chirstians were allowed to enter Masjid-e-Nabwi, where they used to have polemic debates with Holy Prophet (pbuh) and Prophet himself encouraged them to ask questions but they used this opportunity to conspire among Muslims and even poisoned Holy Prophet (pbuh), so they, and any other non-Muslim, were forbidden from enetering any mosque, unless the Mutwalli (custodian) of Mosque expresses his permission. This is the reason Quadianis are forbidden to name their place of worship as a Masjid because logically non-Muslims are not allowed in a Masjid, and if the erect their own building and start calling this building a Masjid then either they should be forced to chage the name of the place or state should take that building away from them if they refuse.

Urstruly (#145):

You are lying once again.

As I explained, baghi means “a female slave” … without any reference to her sexual conduct.

“Children of baghi” is an Arabic idiom suggesting people without courage and moral qualities to accept truth when faced with it.

Now why would your ullema insist on being labeled as “children of prostitutes” is beyond me. However, if you personally prefer to be labeled child of a “sex worker” … that’s your choice … and has nothing to do with what Mirza Sahib wrote … (wink).


PS: What about the ``last prophet and last mosque`` hadith? Any profound thoughts, little genius?

Re: # 144 Rizwan

Yes there is a list of exclusions:

1. A non-Muslim is not allowed to proselytize Muslim subjects of state because the maximum punishment for apostasy is death according every school of jurist thought in Islam. So if a non-Muslim is allowed to proselytize Muslims, the law becomes contrdictory.

2. A non-Muslim is not allowed to practice his faith in a Muslim place of worship, i.e. Mosque

3. A non-Muslim is not allowed to practice his faith in the place of `Harm` ulness he is Christian or Jew. The place of Harm Shareef is an area of a radius of approx. 10 miles around the city of Mecca. During the time of Sultan Nuruddin Zangi (May Allah be pleased with him and grant him high place in heaven) the area of Harm Shareef was extended to include the 10 mile area around the of Mosque of the Prophet (pbuh) - Masjid-e- Nabwi in Medina as well. And in 1918 with Kingdom of Saudi Arabia became a nation state, this area was extended to the borders of the state.

Re: # 143 Sattar

I think I had appologized to you when you explained to me that Mirza sahib used the Arabic word ``baghia`` for his opponents i.e. Islamic scholars, who opposed him. You told me that the the translation of this word as done by Moulvis, which is, ``KanjriyoN ke bachchay (children of whores)`` was incorrect and the correct translation was ``Children of sex workers`` and that Mirza sahib meant well. I don`t know why you raise this issue time and again.

Ustruly # 141

Read your response again, and cry and weep at the sorry state of affairs for muslims.

This is what you call the rational thinking of Islam and Quran, is this the Sunnah of Holy Prophet Muhammad.

You need a psychiatrist to help you out.

Isalm and Quran and Muhammad are not your personal property, God has not allocated these to you on a ``Ishtam Paper``.

Islam is a religion of justice and equality. Now weigh what you claim on the basis of this principle.

1. How to determin who is given the right to decide how is muslim and non muslim

such a complex issue and non-solvable issue, and yet Sunnah of Holy Prophet is very simple and practile, however say salam and claim muslim he is Muslim. Now if he is a Muslim at heart, leave that to God. Islam is under no threat, as God, All powerfull is protector of Islam.

2. Islam uses one/single yardstick to apply standards; no duality and hypocracy in real Islam. Everyone is free to believe whatever he wants to believe in Islam state, in one breath you assert this and in next breath you assert BUT he should not be this, this, this, this. So process of exclusion started already, and it is only first URSTRULY, some time later and second URSTRULY will come and say now I want to add more things in ``EXCLUDING LIST``. By the time every USTRULY is done, ``EXCLUDING LIST`` have everything on it and there is practically no freedom of expression in URSTRULY ISLAMIC STATE. It is ``ikrah-phi-din`` and not ``La-ikrah-phi-din``.

Now take a look, this is what has happened in Muslim world, corrupted by these scholars and their followers.

Urstruly (#141),

Your post highlights idiocy of your Islam. According to you, non-Muslims are allowed to preach to non-Musilms. That’s just remarkable. But are they also allowed to preach to Muslims? What happens if a Muslim leaves Islam?

Don’t be shy … let us know what you really believe. While you are at it, do explain the hadith you yourself quoted … ”I am the last prophet and this mosque of mine is the last mosque”. What does “last” mean here?

Any word on your claim that Mirza Sahib called this opponents “children of prostitutes”? Or is this just propaganda from your ullema that you fell for?

ZahraJ (#135),

None of this would be needed if only Hazrat Alama Issa-ibne-Marriam … Naqshbandi’s long awaited prophet from two thousand years ago … finally agrees to descend down to earth from above the clouds, on shoulders of two angels.

One question remains though ... if this Issa refuses to wear clothes and is now a homosexual … how would Naqshbandi react? Love of the divine is all nice and fancy … but how about some clothes in the name of civility??

Naqsh,

Re #128 … can you substantiate your claims against Mirza Sahib? Do you also remain silent when asked your father’s name? You started this dialogue ... now deal with it if you are man enough.

In our discussion on basis of Quran and ahadith, you are unable to present anything at all. Your ultimate argument is that ullema agree with you … and that’s it.

Don’t be so sure of your ullema. None of Allah’s prophets had ullema on their side. Ullema in Aurengzeb’s court were insecure enough where they felt threatened by a naked fakir. In this day and age, these ullema are the one’s behind shia-sunni-violence and mob attacks on Ahmadi mosques in Pakistan and Bangladesh. These ullema are also the ones recruiting suicide-bombers on basis of a twisted jihad ideology.

Where has all this violence and hatred gotten the ummah?

Re: # 137 majumdar

In our religion, Islam, there is no compulsion in the matters of belief. Everyone is free to believe whatever he believes in an Islamic state. He can practice his religion in every which way he wants and he can even proselytize his religion to the non-Muslim subjects of the state. As Muslims we are forbidden to have any contempt towards anyone of other faith. If you look at closely, every issue that we have with yahood and hanood is of political nature and not of religious nature.

Quadianis can have all that, if they stop calling themselves Muslims. They must not be ashamed of calling themselves Mirzais or Quadianis. However, they cannot be allowed to call themselves Ahmadis either, because of a unanimous fatwa of ulemma of every school of thought in Islam, since one of the given name of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) is Ahmad and word ``Ahmadi` may allude to some kind of assiciation with Prophet - which they have none. We could care less what their belief system is if they stop presenting it as ``Islamic``; because we know our religion as the religion that Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) brought to us. His word takes precedence over anyone else. Their beliefs are an anathema to the core beliefs of Islam. We will have better and amicable relations with them, the minute they stop calling themselves Muslims; just like Bihai`is who do not call themselves Muslims now and we care less what their beliefs are.

``Verily, thirty liars will be born in

my Ummah;

every one of them will claim to be a prophet,

though I am the last of the prophets,

and there will be no prophet after me.``


.............. why was our prophet so insecure ? ....... so what if other people claim to be prophets - if they can walk on water or talk to dead people then shouldn`t they be taken seriously ?.............. there are people who think i am a prophet because i can twitch my right ear and left eyebrow at the same time - is it fair to deprive them of their deen ? ..............

..............this is hilarious - i can think of so many great skits on this subject for saturday night live ! .....

Naqshbandi,

Your response is understandable. I think it is due to this, you are asked

What sort of Irfan is in being naked and being intoxicated.

And next you wrote:

``Hazrat Sarmad was a perfect intoxicated [majzub] saint. He had no equal in his Islamic knowledge and virtues``

Even the Holy Prophet was not equal to your Hazrat Sarmad?

---

Prediction of present time by Holy Prophet was, if yahood would put left foot in right shoe then so called Muslims would do the same.

Naqshbandi: You are doing the same as yahood, and we Ahmadies are trying to show you the beauty of Quran and Isalm, which is comprehensible with out any doubt, one has to fully awake though.

The beautifull religion of Islam, and exalted book of Quran is the best book. But unfortunately, actions of some of its so called adherents and thought process of some of its claimers has become distorted.

This parallel theologies of Faqirs, pirs and sunnah of intoxicated (so called majzoob faqir of yours) has diminshed the shine of the book and religion, we are tasked to show the real face of Islam and Quran, for your benifit and for the benifit of humankind.

You can certainly benifit from Quran, just for a moment think

What kind of Irfan comes from a naked, intoxicated pir?

If you think, honestly, the answer is none. This will free your mind and thoughts from such bounds and it will accelerate your understanding of Quran.

If Muslims, discard these parallel theologies of Pirs, Wahabi, Dubandi, Bralvi, etc, there are so many to list, and If Muslims return to Qur`an alone then Muslims will draw enermous benefits.

#137: majumdar, i have respect for the hanood and the yahood but none at all for the qadianis.

Urstruly/Naqshbandi,

Who is the more contemptible human being, the hanood, the yahood or the qadiani. Just want to know for academic interest.

Regards

ZahraJ,

option (e) please: usually I don`t even acknowledge qadianis but sattar and his buddies constant misquoting and using the qur`an in a way NEVER used before to prove their kazzab false prophet dajjal as being on truth forced me to respond lest they think that sunnis cannot reply to their idiocies and kufr. I have said what i wanted to say on this topic.

Any neutral reading all the hadith and qu`ranic verses will, no doubt, agree that the concept of finality of prophethood is as understood by muslims and not by qadianis who have to resort to fanciful and absurd interpretations [tawil] to support their (false) claims.

Dear Interactors:

I hate to be the party pooper here. By the time this article leaves the front page, one of the following must happen otherwise Chowk should seriously admonish Urstruly, Sattar and Asif for having unending discussions on a subject where they have constantly come forth with rebuttals and have shown no compassion towards each other. Some possibilities are listed below:

a) Sattar joins the Sufi Clan led by Qibla Asif Naqshbandi.

Or

b) Urstruly and Asif start following the Ahmadiya line of practice.

Or

c) Asif deploys Urstruly at a mazar of a Sufi Buzurg for acquiring some holistic teachings.

Or

d) Urstruly starts teaching a class on the basics of philosophy of religion whereas Sattar carefully analyzes and reviews the intent behind the teacher`s teachings. During the miracle, qibla Asif is taking notes for his future translation.

Or

e) All three decide to agree on their disagreements. As a result, each one of them happily accepts others` unique existence and philosophy.

Am I too optimistic in my list of possibilities?

Mr Naqasbandi,

Let me show you the reason we are so painfull for you, as you wrote: In your article

``Hazrat Sarmad was a perfect intoxicated [majzub] saint. He had no equal in his Islamic knowledge and virtues.``

First: Majzub is intoxicated,

---

Second: Hazrat Sarmad had no equal in his knowledge and virtues, WOW, you are muslim and others are Kafir. What about Holy Prophet?

Comment for others: It is better not to smoke and take of your clothes, before writing an article.

Mr Naqasbandi,

Let me show you the reason we are so painfull for you, as you wrote: In your article

``Hazrat Sarmad was a perfect intoxicated [majzub] saint. He had no equal in his Islamic knowledge and virtues.``

First: Majzub is intoxicated,

---

Second: Hazrat Sarmad had no equal in his knowledge and virtues, WOW, you are muslim and others are Kafir. What about Holy Prophet?

Comment for others: It is better not to smoke and take of your clothes, before writing an article.

#125

You are getting closer to your naked Pir, keep up.

Ustruly,

History is not written by you and me. It is ``Ibn-Hasham`` and ``Ibn-Hasaq`` or other original authors. You can use as many filty punjabi idioms you want, this just shows composition of your mind.

But his is a fact

Mussellemah Kazab, made his kazab claim during the life time of Holy Prophet.

I know exactly the reason why this is so painfull to you; facing the truth; as it demolishes the arguements which you try to build on your misunderstanding of ``Religion has been perfected for you on this day`` on the occasion of Hujat-ul-Wadah.

Anyway, what kind of ``Irfan`` comes from a naked eccentric. I guess to embarassed to answer this.