Hazrat Sarmad Shaheed: The Naked Sufi Martyr

Asif:

...this caught my attention for two reason:

In those days travellers went to India via Sindh and he too took that path. When he got to Thatta, he fell in love with a Hindu boy. He was so lost in love that he forgot his own self but became completely oblivious to his trade too! The historians are divided as to the exact location of this incident. Ali Quli Khan Daghistani places this incident in Surat [3]. Azad Bilgrami has said that it took place in Azimabad, Patna. Sher Khan Lodhi writes, “In the town of Thatta for trade, he fell ardently in love with a Hindu boy[4].”

...if he is passing through Sindh...then Thatta is the same as present day city of that name about 60 kms north of Karachi....

Surat at the head of Tapti is way south...it was a leading port at one time...and could be an entry point if he was travelling by ship

Azimabad, Patna is way way west

also, Karachi at one point boasted of best indian boy-brothels...see accounts of the area in sir richard burtons accounts...

digression: burton was `documented` for some of the reports he filed on that subject...he mentions he was taken off sindh scouting and was sent south...

rgds

t

Great character, this sufi saint.He had the balls to be himself, even unto death.I hope `Temporal` will stop dreaming about the days karachi had `boy-brothels` as he calls them and end the agony he`s goin` through.Just GO BACK and open one and ENJOY!!!., is what i would say to him.hehe.Or, maybe he should move to Mumbai.The entire city just smells of sex, any kind of sex.

# 2:

get a looser underwear sir!

Sir Francis Burton

also google for Sindhe Visited

and another Sindh Revisited this latter by ondaatje and haroon siddiqui

PS to # 1

patna-- way way east:)

Re: # 3

get a looser underwear sir!

I wear boxers.

#5:

with due respect your posts all over chowk indicate poor blood circulation:)

...my suggestion was to alleviate that situation...but please feel free to ignore!

Eveyone`s so touchy feely nowadays.I wish everyone was like Hazrat Sarmad Shaheed!!.The world will be a much nicer place indeed.

2-6,

....Cayenne is the village jester (idiot is a too strong word). He has carved his niche on CHOWK - a harmless jester who completes the scene in his own insignificant way.
..............

Naqshbandi

I fail to see how Sarmad qualifies as a Saint or even Shaheed. He neither seems to be following Shariat nor Tareeqat - two cause celebre of the Sufism. And what the hell does it mean to fall in ``ardent love`` with a boy. Isn`t that another violation of Sufism, which insists on Ishq-e-haqeeqi. Did he find god in that boy?

As far as concept of Shahadat goes, the martyrdom only is granted if one dies in the cause of Allah or while protecting Muslims and Saltunat-e-Khudadad, whereas he died while uttering not only Kalimat-e-Kufr but also in sedition of Saltunat-e-Khudadad. According to Islamic law, an idiot (one with diminished/compromised mental capacity) and minor cannot be subjected to death penalty, therefore, we can call his death as judicial political murder but calling it shahadat is stretching it a bit too much.

Naqshbandi, I am really disappointed. At this moment when capitalist vampires are breathing down our necks; our religion, our soveriegnity, and our freedom is being taken away from us moment by moment, you are telling us about autistic naked faqirs and how we should follow their path. Have mercy on your own people, guide them to the righteous path if God has given you knowledge and comprehension (Aql-o-fehm).

urstruly:

welcome back!

At this moment when capitalist vampires are breathing down our necks; our religion, our soveriegnity, and our freedom is being taken away from us moment by moment,...

what do you mean by above?

Re: # 10

He means that it is just a matter of time before someone picks you up from where you are at and send you back to where you or your ancestors came from.Last thursday was D-day for the war on terror.It is not about the dingy brits anymore.It is about Europe, the real prize.Start packing , mon ami and bon voyage.

Re: # 10 t

I hope you did not ask this question in jest. One has to be blind, not to see that half of the Muslim countries are under direct military occupation of the West and in most of the rest corporations appoint the proxy leadership. For example, in Pakistan, Citibank appoints Prime Ministers (not once but twice), whereas Generals on foreign payroll provide the muscle to them; in Central Asian Muslim States Haliburton and Bechtel appoint proxy dictators; in Africa Shell, BP, and other Gold and Diamond conglemurates appoint their proxies. Today, in this world each and every Muslim stands disenfranchised, whether he is in his own land or in his adopted country. Some of us do strongly feel about it.

Asif,

``I opened my eyes from the dream of Non-Existence ``

Do you know what this means ?
Do you know in which philosophy this metaphor is used ? :)

urstruly:

look at this quote and the date-time stamp?

#9 by Urstruly on July 13, 2005 12:53pm PT

nothing that you have mentioned in #9 and subsequently elaborated in # 12: is a new phenomenon...the Muslims in general and their leaders in particular have been in a free fall for the past few hundred years...

so why this suddent empathy by you now? that is what i am trying to understand

rgds

t

ps: is there any reason why you stayed away from other relevant boards below?

...i have been told about this nanga baba who has not spoken for thirty years and people come from far and wide to obtain his blessings for the winning lottery number or success in love or to get a job in police or income tax department or other material gains...atleast he was not a homo sexual...infact he was asexual coz he was all of 75 years and was a certified madcap...people still worshipped him...i wonder when aasif naqshbandi is going to write about hazrat nanga baba...

Mr. Asif, Its good that you included the story about the Hazrat Sahib’s deewana-pan for the little hindu boy with whom he fell in love. Because that explains everything. All his reference to HIM is actually meant for the Hazrat Sahibs feeling horny for the little hindu boy and not for Allah.

“He is happy on account of my humble self
Evil eye and wine is stolen from my hands
He is in my bosom; search for Him in me!
Tis strange that a thief has caused me to be naked!”

In the poem above, I think its obvious that the naked Hazrat NAMBLA Sahib is clearly expressing his hurt over loosing his heart to the little boy.

Urstruly (#12):

... One has to be blind, not to see that half of the Muslim countries are under direct military occupation of the West and in most of the rest corporations appoint the proxy leadership. For example, in Pakistan, Citibank appoints Prime Ministers (not once but twice), whereas Generals on foreign payroll provide the muscle to them; in Central Asian Muslim States Haliburton and Bechtel appoint proxy dictators; in Africa Shell, BP, and other Gold and Diamond conglemurates appoint their proxies. Today, in this world each and every Muslim stands disenfranchised, whether he is in his own land or in his adopted country. Some of us do strongly feel about it ...

... and ummah is still busy chasing ahmadis out of the mosques .... go figure ....

Try to appreciate the term ... ``opportunity cost``. The issues with ummah have been brewing for over a century … and have now reached boiling point. Ummah’s response all along has been to push for blasphemy laws, anti-ahmadi legislation, and nizam-e-shariah, and a little box on the green passport. Now they realize that they were barking up the wrong tree all this time …

And now to the next functionally illiterate member of the cursed ummah, syed naqshbandi …

It seems that the war on terror has turned him on his head. Earlier he was praising the shiah system of Iran … while conveniently ignoring the fatwas of kuffr against them…..… and now he is singing praises to a naked, fagg@t sufi … whose apparently recited kalima only after being beheaded. What the hell is this all about???? It takes quite a few morons to spin such a story … and naqsh is not the last one in line … although he does qualify as khatam-ul-moron … (a little inside joke here for tauheed and urstruly ...)

….. and all along naqsh has praised the continuous chain of bona-fide scholars … the respected ullema who are supposed to teach Islam to us mortals. But what about the ullema in king’s court who banded together against a naked hero of naqshbandi??? Am I to believe that bon-fide ullema have a history of screwing up …????? Apparently yes .......

[PS: No offense intended to gays … I am only trying to make a point here. I’ve had quite a few gays friends ….. including those who “sat on the fence” …… making their girl friends miserable all along …]

asif mian,


you can`t be serious !

........... about thirty years ago there was a mad man who used to run around naked in the bazaar at pindora in rawalpindi, mouthing obsceneties and fliging excrement at the people .......... when he died, people buried him by the side of the road and planted a few black and green flags .- it is now a bonafide mazar ..............

......... hope all is well with you in londonistan .......... maybe you can rein in some of your mosque members who are blowing themselves up to become martyrs - your sufi brand of islam, even though it is a bit whacky, seems to be a lot more benign than urstruly`s violent jihadism

somehow historians have paid much attention to this chap. he has a lot of attention in peacock throne book as well. he must have been therefor important.

re: satyamvada # 13

It`s useless to even ask such questions. Sufism is supposed to be islam and you will get an Islamic answer, not a philosophical one.

This article did help me understand one of the methods Sufis used to learn their Hinduism :)

``There is no god``...may he died as an athiest...

There used to be a baba in murree who also remained naked sunk in ice for years. And was a famous for people to visit and the lucky person would be the one who is hit badly by him..It is said that Ayub Khan was blessed by him as he remained in the Aastan with his family for four days all just sitting on charpoi waiting dad to be hit. And atlast he was given news of power very awfully.

Naqshbandi Sahib,

This article appears to be clearly a labor of love, and accordingly, it is inappropriate for it to be evaluated like a regular biographical piece. Therefore, I’ll just put my notes down. (Many remarks in jest, of course!)

Notes:
[He had great command over the Persian language and also knew Arabic. Professionally, he was a trader.]
I hope it’s the last time anybody here makes fun of anyone using the term “baniya”. (I did say I HOPE!!!)

[When he got to Thatta, he fell in love with a Hindu boy. He was so lost in love that he forgot his own self but became completely oblivious to his trade too!]
Of course, to give him his due benefit of doubt, there is always the possibility that he merely got the tools of the trade confused. We janitors are well aware that in order to do the job right, the number one rule is you must have your tools correctly selected and appropriately sized.

#1 by temporal
[Karachi at one point boasted of best indian boy-brothels...]
Tempo bhai, a strict technicality, but Karachi IS in Pakistan, and should be referred to as such. And, like I once told another interactor – KEEP it!

#4 by temporal
[patna-- way way east:)]
Also, if you don’t mind, kindly leave Patna OUT of it! Thank You, Sir!

#9 by Urstruly
[And what the hell does it mean to fall in ``ardent love`` with a boy.]
The question DID cross my mind, too!

#12 by Urstruly
[…in Pakistan, Citibank appoints Prime Ministers…]
Now, if only they could appoint the generals and mullahs, all problems will get solved (unity of command, and all that).

#17 by sattar2
[…. I’ve had quite a few gays friends ….. including those who “sat on the fence” …… making their girl friends miserable all along …]
This statement appears “pregnant with possibilities”.

# 9 Urstruly,
I fully agree with you.
we are fighting with Jahad stigma and Asif has started new theory of Huzrat being naked.

This was an enjoyable read. I`ve always wanted to know more about Hazrat Sarmad.

Urstruly`s comments were also hilarious :D

A fascinating story, i had heard of Sarmad, but it was in derisory comments, its good to know more

****PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT****


Latest on the `war on terror`.The british PM says `extremists will be deported`.What if they`re born in britain but of pak descent ?.If i were pak, and in the UK, i would start packing.Every pak can be deemed to be a terrorist.We indians can offer to help you out by buying your properties at 50 pence on the pound.Better than nothing!!!.I try.

Asif

Thanks. There was a time when I thought that `Saudi` Islam was simple. Just say the `Farz` and get over it. Or the Landi Kotal Pathans concept of a clear demarcation between Smuggling & Prayers.

And I thought that the Pirs & Fakirs are an anamoly and they expoit the innocent believers.

But no more - after the close encounters with Wahabism, Deoband or the Taliban.

Now it seems that the only saviours of Islam can be the Sufis & the Fakeers.

nhk

Beautiful, rich, traditional and the true heritage of Pakistan.... a welcome relief from the Deobandi/wahabi straitjacket which has been imposed on South Asian Islam by Darul-uloom Deoband in India...

Re: # 28

mantolives......you are an evil genius!!.And, methinks you just LOVE india and indians a tad too much!!.I don`t blame you!!.

Re: # 29

Dear Cayenne

I`ll let you think why I might make a clear distinction between Deobandis from the heartland of India and Sufis/Barelvis the local pirs of Pakistan...

I have a feeling Naqshbandi knows it well...

I`m having a RiOt on this here site as usual.Paks are crazy folks, what makes it all the more fascinating to me is their stubbiorn refusal to accept this side of their nature!!.The more `white` they try to pretend, one more, nay four more suicide bombers do them in , in one fell swoop.Hilarious!!.Why, this naked sufi??.All paks fascinate me no end!!.

I offer you the `soul` of india.......

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=225105

Here’s a little poem in honor of the Hazrat Sahib

Hazrat Sahib was a Pagal-Boodhoo
and a Gandoo
And all he wanted to do
Was do the do with the little hindoo

Now Emperor Aurangzeb was a Pious One
Only King who wiped his own butt after he did his doodoo
He saw thru the farce and said- Do
Away this Gandoo’s head and make him a DODO

Re: # 32

Al-Bundy!.I hereby appoint you poet-laureate of this here site.Such meaning, depth, grammar and erudition.WHy??.You should have posted it on the poem page, er, whatchamacallit??, and have literary aspirants analyze, critique and conjugate it no end, as they are wont to do on some other jibberish they call poems.

Re: # 20 [Sufism is supposed to be islam]
Could you please elaborate on this a bit? Where did you get this notion from?
regards

Re: # 31 [All Pakis fascinate me no end]
So will Pakistan, welcome to the land of fascinations! ;)

Wow, if the baba ji were alive on this day, I bet hollywood would have employed him...a true stuntsman that he were!
These self-proclaimed, rather ignorant-illeterate-desciples`-procalimed sufi-saints are as much responsible in portraying a warped and distorted version of Islam as those suicide-bombers. As someone rightly pointed out, they neither follow shareeat nor tareeqat, mere stuntsmanship, and are acclaimed to be saints and Muslims, damn it!

Sarmad main ho chukka hoon sar khud main daiy chukka hoon
Sir khud sey khud main paaya .............................................

I would appreciate it if all those who had any serious questions about the contents of the article could address them to me rather than just making comments about islam and sufism and pakistan which, based on the responses to date, seem mostly un-related to the article itself.

Hazrat Sarmad was a majzub--a technical term in sufism for those who are so intoxicated with the love of God that they appear to be mad...

******

Right, any questions?
******

Thanks Manto, you are right but these majzub are unique individuals and not models of imitation for the common Muslim; the sober sufis are the ones who should be imitated. The majzub are to be admired...:-)

Re: # 21

Nadia, if you read the article again you will see that Hazrat Sarmad explains why he only recited the first part of the kalimah only; the fact that he recited it fully after his execution is a charismatic miracle which proves he was a true muslim.


****
ishq e majaazi is often a bridge towards ishq i haqiqi; like Zuleykha saw God manifested in Yusuf alayhisalam and Qays saw Him in Layla and so on....The one who is fana fillah is so lost in love that he or she sees Allah everywhere. This is wahdat al wajood...

the love is not homosexual (astaghfirullah) as ppl understand it today; it is Platonic and the Ideal

Urstruly: just as in the case of al Hallaj Hazrat Sarmad was indeed shaheed; shahadat is for all those who die in the path of Allah and not just restricted to the physical jihad. Indeed, the ulama have detailed those who can be martyrs and one of these categories is all those Muslims who die from heartache, due to love, as long as their love is pure and not tainted by sin (i.e. zina)--i.e. those who die pining for their beloved can also be shaheed; what then of those whose Beloved is Allah Himself!

And the greater jihad [jihad al akbar] is the struggle against one`s nafs (ego) as the Beloved Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam has said...

Re: # 40
Naqshbandi

It is fair to admit that in midievil times people had tendency to attribute Autistic, Schizophrenics, Obssessive Compulsives, and people with various forms of Dissosiative Disorders the status of ``men of God``, but in subcontinent this practice is rampant even today.I don`t think that in the past it was a bad idea, since it helped those people save themselves from abuse in general. But now the scientific knowledge has brought our understanding to this level that we can understand the working of human mind a bit better.

This issue is core to the Islamic belief system of which the integral part is the belief that the chain of ``revelations`` has ended with the Holy Prophet (pbuh), so after him if any `holy man` claims to have a direct contact with God is a either a charlatan or have some sort of mental disorder. What could be more injustice to God and his Prophet if we attibute these characteristics to such men. Islam came to end these superstitions, simplified the relation between God and man and between man and man. Who are we to attribute someone as man of God? Does God tell usto do so? Did Prophet tell us to do so? If not then who are we to decide that. I consider ``majzoobiat`` as a form of Dissociative Disorder. If ``majzoob` are men of God then should Qura`n or Hadith tell us so. Innovations in the matter of faith are haram and forbidden - Allah has perfected and completed this faith for us;; who are we to say that it ain`t so.

temporal

I was too busy to interact at the appropriate boards. Probably I am too bored now, since Anglo-American terrorists and others disgust me equally.

Urstruly 42:

I was too busy to interact at the appropriate boards... since Anglo-American terrorists and others disgust me equally.

this is why your sudden emergence and vehemence surprised me!

#41 is a good post except this:This issue is core to the Islamic belief system of which the integral part is the belief that the chain of ``revelations`` has ended with the Holy Prophet (pbuh), so after him if any `holy man` claims to have a direct contact with God is a either a charlatan or have some sort of mental disorder.

you must be aware of sir iqbal`s reply to his mentor and teacher nicholson to the query re: revelations?

rgds

t

ps: have a hunch very shortly sattar2 would come here and educate you on the different modes God employs in communicating with us temporals, mortals, poets and prophets

Re: # 35

I would like to visit.We have our share of the bizarre.The difference being, we bare it all.Our bizarre coexists with the prim, the proper and the accountant.In Pak i see a desperate attempt to be proper, but a secret desire to be bizarre!!.

t … I guess I have become way too predictable …

Urstruly (#41), not correct!

“Core Islamic belief” that chain of revelation has ended is baseless and incorrect. In the very beginning of chapter 2 (Surah-e-Baqraa), Quran makes it clear that revelation for believers is to continue. Do read the first few verses and feel free to inquire as needed. I’d be happy to oblige.

And your reference to end of revelation as “simplification of relationship between man and God” … suggests that this relationship is so very cumbersome, that the only way to handle it for God is to end it. Sorry, I am not buying it.

Furthermore, Quran tells us that Allah sends revelation to even a honey bee (in Surah-e-Nahl). One wonders, that if a tiny insect is worthy of divine revelation, why not man - the highest form of God’s creation???

Philosophically you are not making any sense. Although, you do have a point that Naqshbandi is viewing the naked fakir with lenses of blind, questionable faith. Not that I have any particular problem with it … however, it does highlight some inconsistencies in his views, which he remains blind to, while adopting somewhat of a disturbing attitude towards those who view things differently.

And after all is said and done, consistency and sincerity is one’s reasoning are virtues worth striving for. If one loses this, how can he tell God from Satan???

naqshbandi...

the fact that he recited it fully after his execution is a charismatic miracle which proves he was a true muslim.
... scientifically dead men do not talk...any proof to the contrary would be welcome.

ishq e majaazi is often a bridge towards ishq i haqiqi

....majazi and haqiqi is nothing but poetic nonsense...and that too with the same sex...la hawla wala

like Zuleykha saw God manifested in Yusuf alayhisalam

...zulekha saws God in Yusuf?? if this aint shirk, don`t know what is... refer surah 12 verses 23 to 29 and you will see your fatal error in above statement.

temporal … you raised a telling point about Iqbal’s views on revelation ...

From what I know, Iqbal did accept that a person may reach prophethood … but only at a personal level, that is, without the mission of reformation of others. It is not surprising that he accepted continuation of revelation … even if only at a personal level.

Try explaining this to Urstruly ... who seems to have slammed shut this door for good. But then again, who is Iqbal but a crazy poet, who was declared a kaffir by ullema for writing ``shikwah`` ... go figure ...

Every abdul, tauheed, naqshbandi, urstruly has a different take on this issue … as he goes on, with supreme confidence, to declare those in disagreement as non-Muslims. That’s part of ummah`s travesty ... all are too busy passing fatwas of kuffr against everyone else. Naked fakirs at times make more sense than these goons … which explains why ullema are all too anxious to do them in … at times in a king’s court … (some parallels alluded to are intentional, I admit … ).

… but the stories of dead men talking is a whole another issue ...

Well, this bizarre man got domiciled in India and he`s one of us now.May he continue to rest in peace.Is that a photo of his resting place?.I will visit next time i travel to Delhi.The Jama Masjid area has some of the best mughlai food restaurants and eating places in the subcontinent.When i get tired or work, family, watching porn, chat and other deviations i travel, sometimes physically, sometimes through this medium.I offer you glimpses of India.......

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=232766

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=219896

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=228441

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=212621

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=4754408#post4754408

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=228887

Re: # 43 t

The word of prophet (pbuh) has precedence over the word of any sir, iqbal, or mirza; I don`t care what one says in this regard; as long as it is contradictory to Qura`nic verses on this issue and 450+ ahadiths, that explain the issue of the finalty of revelations in every which way possible, it is meaningless.

Re: # 46

What has science got to do with it?! Science`s limit is the physical world and that`s it; as a former scientist i can say that with some personal authority. With science you cannot prove that God exists or that angels or jinn exist or that dead men can be raised again; yet the Qur`an tells us all these things happened and exist and are real! Belief means to believe in Allah`s Word and His Habib`s even *if* it goes against our daily experiences. After all that is what a miracle is by definition. (Then again kafirs like the Qadianis limit Allah to only what other kafir scientists deem possible or impossible!)

*****
Urstruly: sadly you have misunderstood what bida`h means. NOT every new thing in the religion is a bad bida`h. The traditional Sunni ulama have divided bida`h into different categories: haram, makruh, mandub, wajib. For example, having the Qur`an in book form with the `irab is a bida` as it was not existant in this form in the time of Our Beloved Habib sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam yet it is now considered necessary [wajib] to enable people =even Arabs=to read the Qur`an correctly. Similarly many things existed in the time of the Prophet and the Sahaba but which didn`t have the names which we have given them e.g. fiqh, usul al fiqh, bayan, mantaq, etc. all these islamic ulum weren`t known then. Will you get rid of them all?!

Similarly some Sahaba experienced spiritual states which correspond to the names given by Sufis afterwards. A prominent example is Hazrat Owais Qarni, a Tabi`, who pulled out his teeth one by one when he heard that one of the Prophet`s blessed teeth had been martyred in Uhud. What is such an act except extreme love, annihilation in the Prophet?! Majzub! The Prophet also explicitly mentioned people who would have torn clothes and be covered in dust and the wordly people would despise them but they would be the Saints of Allah....

Urstruly,

Words of the Prophet (pbuh) should be translated correctly … before you interpret them. Otherwise you’ll also continue to wait for a dead prophet to reappear from above the clouds. Which reminds me … if this prophet does appear from above the clouds, will he continue to receive revelation from God, or would he be a prophet without more revelation???

On this issue, the hadith you partially quoted to support your views, proved the exact opposite when fully quoted. What does this tell you …?

Finally, Quran fully supports continuation of prophethood and revelation. I alluded to it in post #45 … but if you ignore Quran also, whose fault is it …??

Islam came to teach people good character – about anger
Islam came to teach people good character. It fights against bad characters, and the worst character is to be angry! Whoever is angry has all bad character. He who cannot stop his anger cannot keep his Iman, nor his good works. Anger destroys all good things; nothing can stay when anger is present. Therefore, our Prophet (peace be upon him) ordered his nation to keep away from anger when he said, “`The most powerful wrestler is he who can stop his anger!”

Whoever is conquered by his anger, he is a useless person and cannot be a servant of Allah Almighty. This is because when he is angry, he will leave all things for his anger. It means that his ego is ordering him. He is under the command of his ego, and he cannot obey his Lord.

We must always practice leaving anger. Once, we were sitting with our Grandshaykh and his servant, who was an old man. While we were sitting, a fly came up and bit the servant. Quickly he became angry and killed the fly. Our Grandshaykh looked at him and told me, “Tell him, Nazim Effendi, that he must get up and renew his wudu. His wudu is no good – it went away with his anger.``

To kill a flea in anger is a criminal action, a sin! Anger is the worst character. All governments are fighting for anger, and all people also. Anger grows: it is like an ocean for all bad characters. If you can dry up that ocean, no more bad characters can live in it – finished. This is a very, very good manner. You must use this, for it is the order of Allah, His Prophet (peace be upon him), and all Awliya.

Our Grandshaykh is a great doctor for the illnesses of the ego. Here is his prescription for us when we are angry: If you are angry, go and make wudu. This is because anger is fire, and fire goes away with water. Therefore, do wudu. Anger is permitted only for our egos. If you must be angry, be angry at your nafs, leading you away from your Lord! I shall tell you a story, also from our Grandshaykh, on that point:

A `majdhub` is a man who is crazy, but not in the usual sense of the word. He is a man who is `crazy` for Allah. He is above ordinary people, on a different level from them. (Conversely, a `majnun` is a crazy person, in the usual sense of the word; he is on a lower level than ordinary people.) At any rate, there was a majdhub living in a certain town. One day he was walking along when he came upon a group of children playing. Now, children know when a man is on an extraordinary level. They like to run after them and make trouble for them. And so it happened that a boy threw a stone at the majdhub, and hit him on the head. As soon as the stone hit him, the majdhub began to slap himself, saying, “Go to your homeland! Go to your home!” As the startled children watched, the majdhub continued down the street in that way, striking himself and saying, over an over, “Go to your home! Go to your home!``

What is the meaning of that story? Our Grandshaykh says that the majdhub was teaching us about our egos. When he said “Go to your home, go to your home!``, what he meant by that was: ``O, my ego! If you were all right, then these children wouldn`t be throwing stones at you. You must return to your home, to the promise that you made to your Lord. On the Day of Promise, before you came into this world, your Lord asked, `Am I your Lord?` and you answered, `Yes, you are my Lord!` When you return to that promise, nothing gives you trouble. When that boy hit you with that stone, O, my ego, it was to call attention to the fact that you must be careful with your promise to your Lord. You must, therefore, go to you homeland, return to your Lord!”

This story means that you have no right to be angry with another person. You must turn your anger to your own egos! You must think, ``If I am all right, then all things will be all right with me. If I am not all right, then people will not be all right with me.`` So, we will be angry and fighting our egos only.

“Anger is of two kinds,” says our Grandshaykh. “The first kind is the anger of ordinary people. Ordinary people are angry on behalf of their egos, not for Allah Almighty:

``You may say, `How? If a man sees a wrong thing, mustn`t he get angry?` Yes, I agree with you. But first, I would say to you, why are you not angry with yourself, your nafs? If you are seeing wrong things and getting angry, you should look first to yourself, to your ego! Be angry with it! Punish it for your wrongdoings! For bad speaking, for looking to haram; why are you not punishing yourself? It is easy to punish another, too easy. It is easy to kill others; kill, instead, your ego!

``When you are angry make a new wudu, and say three times `Shahada,` and seventy times` Astaghfirullah.` This is your punishment!``

Here, the murids, anxious to punish their egos, asked Shaykh Nazim these questions:

„Is it all right to fast on the light days of the week?``

``No,`` replied the Shaykh, ``no need. It is enough.``

„But we`ve been fasting, already. Every Monday and Thursday since Ramadan,`` a disciple insisted.

``No need,`` replied the Shaykh. ``You may fast from haram looking. You may fast from anger. You may fast from bad words! Not eating or drinking - that fast I don`t want. It is too easy to go without eating. I don`t want that. No bad speaking, no bad looking, no anger; that is difficult. So many people fasting, yet they are angry seventy times until maghrib! They say, `We are fasting!` How can you be fasting if you are angry!``

„I’d say that that describes most of my fasts!``

``Ah?`` smiled the Shaykh. ``It is clear, plain?” He turned to the other murids, and joked, ``Now he is afraid I shall put him three days without eating!”

Maulana continued: ``The second kind of anger is for Allah Almighty. This is only for those who have killed their egos.``

„I don’t think that we have to worry about that, yet,`` said one of the ikhwan.

``Yes,`` replied the Shaykh, ``we are too far from that!``

Another brother asked, ``What do you do about children who misbehave? Sometimes they can make you get very angry.``

Shaykh Nazim said, ``You may give them `tarbiya,` which is to educate them with good manners. Also, `taqlib`; to make them fear your speaking. It is like acting; a fierce voice, but inside you are not getting angry. You may also spank them, but never in anger. Anger is prohibited!``

Another question: ``If you are in Jihad, if you are at war, is it also better to fight without anger?``

The Shaykh answered, ``Without anger.`` This brought him back to his original topic: ``Anger is for Allah. It must be in Jihad, in war, but that anger is not for yourself: It is for Allah. Our Grandshaykh told the story of Sayyidina Ali (may Allah be pleased with him), which may educate us on that point:

``Once, during the Holy war in the time of Rasul-ullah (peace be upon him), Sayyidina Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) was fighting with an enemy soldier during a fierce battle. This soldier was a huge man, a powerful wrestler, and it was a difficult fight. Suddenly, Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) managed to disarm his opponent. He flung him to the ground and raised his sword to kill the man. Just at that moment, as the sword was about to strike, the fallen soldier spat into Sayyidina Ali`s face! Sayyidina Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) lowered his sword, and looked at his enemy. `Get up!` he said. `Get up! I cannot kill you!` The enemy soldier was dumbfounded. `Why are you not killing me, Ali?` he asked. `Why are you leaving me like this? Am I not your enemy?` Sayyidina Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) spoke: `It is because I became filled with my ego`s anger that I cannot kill you! Before you spat in my face, I was fighting with you for the sake of Allah. But, when you spat on me, I became angry for the sake of my ego! Therefore, I cannot kill you! You may go.`

These words reached the fallen man`s heart. `O, Ali!` he cried, `You are on the right way! Please take me to your Prophet (peace be upon him)!` Then, the soldier was taken to Rasul-ullah (peace be upon him), and, at the Prophet`s hand, he entered Islam.``

``Therefore,`` said Shaykh Nazim, ``if your anger is like this, if you are like Sayyidina Ali (may Allah be pleased with him), then you, too, may be angry. If your character is not like that, you must keep it to yourself!``

Mercy Oceans

© by Sheikh Nazim Al-Qubrusi Al-Haqqani
= =

sufism and sainthood [wilaya] ARE NOT INVENTED


33 - The la-madhhabi author does not accept believing in tasawwuf. He says,

``There were no madhhabs during the time of as-Sahaba. They were made up later. And tasawwuf was introduced into Islam by Jews.``

These slanderous lies are refuted best by the following passage from the Persian book Irshad at-talibin by Muhammad Thana`ullah al-`Osmani ad-Dahlawi, a great alim from India [of the past]:

Re: # 51
..so when this particular prophet comes down to earth the khatimun nabi theory would be like the TNT post bangladesh...;)

vaise naqshbandi saheb very conviniently forgot to tackle surah 12 verses 23-29 about zulekha seeing allah in yusuf...:(

Naqshbandi,

Ahmadi-Muslims believe that Allah Almighty operates the universe within the laws He Himself created. If Allah ends up violating His own laws, it would indicate lack of farsightedness on His part.

In my view, miracles, as you describe them, are not supported by Quran … they are a figment of overactive imagination and misinterpretation of its verses. We believe that power and authority Allah supersedes science … no question about it. However, Allah has the power to bring about the desired results while operating within the confines of the laws He created.

For example, if you think that Allah could only rescue Jesus (pbuh) from crucifixion ... by violating laws He Himself created ... that`s a limitation you place on Him. I believe that Allah saved Jesus (pbuh) from crucifixion without having to violate any of His laws. This view complements Allah`s farsightedness, wisdom, and power ... and is consistent with teachings of Quran.

Furthermore, in Quran (towards end of Surah-e-Israel) Allah commands Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) ... that if disbelievers demand physical miracles from you, tell them ... ``I am but a human, sent as a messenger``. If your view is correct, Quran would have instructed the dear Prophet (pbuh) to tell disbelievers ... to ask for physical miracles from Allah as a sign.

Got it, little genius???

sattar,

Allah is Kulli Shay`in Qadeer. By limiting Him like that you are increasing in your kufr. Everything is created by Allah, from the motion of the tiniest quarks to the miracles to the largest supernovae and everything else. Qadianis are kafirs who have made Allah limited by scientific `laws`. He Almighty is He does as He pleases. Fire burns but if He orders it to become cool for Abraham it does so! New born infants do not speak but if He wills it so, Isa alayhisalam speaks in his cradle and Lazarus rises from the dead; and if He wills, the Sun rises again after setting, the Moon is split asunder and rivers flow from the fingers of the Prophet when the Prophet issues such commands; likewise the dead children of Hazrat Jabir are brought back to life at the command of Allah`s Habib--all these are from Allah`s Will and He does as He pleaseth.

Re: # 18
hamidm, I am serious! From various comments you`ve had on chowk it appears you are actually from a sunni family who had correct beliefs (you mentioned once your ammi going to visit various mazaars)--so what on earth happened to you to turn you so far away from islam?

Re: # 57
...going to mazars is construed as islam...in that case half the chinese population who worship their dead would be considered muslim...hallelujah! muslims are almost two billion...

K,

Going by that logic you can count more than half of India too .. the amount of people I have seen at dargas is mind boggling ... from the staunchest hindus, sikhs, xians etc to muslims .......... ~2.6 billion and counting :-)

regards,

Khamkhwa (#54):

“Khatam-un-nabiyeen”, literally meaning “Seal of prophets”, is an Arabic phrase implying “the most exalted prophet”. I have come across several references from old Arabic books which support this view. Nothing in Quran even remotely suggests end of prophethood. The flawed notion is mostly based upon incorrect translation of ahadith (saying of Prophet Muhammad, pbuh).

One similar misunderstanding is based upon ahadith foretelling appearance of “Issa-ibne-Marriam” among Muslims in latter days.

- Ahmadi-Muslims interpret this to mean appearance of a prophet among Muslims, who will bear spiritual resemblance to Issa-ibne-Marriam.

- Mainstream Muslims interpret it to mean that the same Issa … from two thousand years ago … will reappear, in physical form, from above the clouds.

Mainstream interpretation is laced with contradictions and absurdities. This Issa-ibne-Marriam will lead the worldwide Muslim population to final victory by shedding the blood of those who refuse to accept Islam. Did I mention that Islam is the religion of peace?

Ullema are of the opinion (cough, cough) that since Issa was raised to prophethood before Muhammad (pbuh), his reappearance does not violate the doctrine of “end of prophethood”.

I have pointed out that Quran describes Issa as a prophet for Israelites, and if he reappears, how can he lead the worldwide Muslim population? Quranic verses would be proven irrelevant and plain wrong if Issa becomes a prophet for Muslims worldwide. No comment from ullema on this.

When asked if this Issa will continue to receive divine revelation, Urstruly does not want to comment. Since the door to revelation is now closed (according to Urstruly), I guess Issa will no longer receive divine revelations. It would be somewhat of a disgrace … that Allah spoke with him in the past, but will no longer speak to him when Issa reappears. What a pity for Issa … no wonder he refuses to reappear ...

Finally … how the hell does a prophet reappear, alive, in physical form … more than two thousand years of his birth??? Kinda spooky ... isn`t it? The man died long ago. Naqshbandi’s response is simply …. Allah does what He wills ... whereas Urstruly cleverly remains silent on the issue. This suggests that one should retire reasoning and common sense when trying to understand their Islam … no wonder it makes no sense to anyone any more …

Naqshbandi (#56):

Part of the problem lies with your brand of idiotic Islam. Once you made incorrect, debasing comments about Mirza Sahib. I challenged you to substantiate your statements, but you did not. Neither did you take back filth you wrote. Urstruly looked into mullah’s claims and admitted that they were without merit. You indeed are a stupid monkey. Moving along …

Miracles in Quran …???

Once again, your main problem is your wild imagination. Read on ...

- “Fire cools … when Allah orders it”. This depends upon your interpretation. When water is poured, it too cools the fire … by Allah’s commandment. Where does Qurna rule out such realistic possibilities in Abraham’s case?

- An “infant speaking” is a metaphor for a young man/child who is very wise for his age.

- “People rising from dead” is a metaphor referring to spiritual revival as people adopt righteousness. This also explains dead children being brought to life (although I suspect this is probably an embellished tale). If I recall correctly, Lazarus coming to life is a biblical reference … which again, refers to spiritual revival, where the story may have been embellished also.

- Sun rises again after setting. Agreed. This happens as the earth spins. So what’s your point ...???

- Rivers flowing from Prophet’s (pbuh) fingers ….? This is a new one … where did you get this??

Your views debase divine message by reducing it to black-magic, voodoo crap. But then again, benign stupidity is better than violent fanaticism. May be Urstruly can still learn from you …

Reread my post #55. Nowhere does it limit power of Allah in any way. I supported my view from Quran … not speculative, irrational rhetoric. You are imagining things again.

my question to naqshbandi saheb is where in quran it says that hazrat yusuf was the manifestation of allah for zulaikha... i have already quoted the verses wherein it clearly states what the woman tried with the prophet and failed and then put the blame on him thereby getting him jailed for a number of years...and this maulana saheb is telling some one....quote`` like Zuleykha saw God manifested in Yusuf alayhisalam ``....

For those who do not know:

1) Dara Shikoh had the Upanishads translated into Persian. He was very much influenced
by it, which of course was against what Auranzeb stood for. Aurangzeb had
Dara-Shikoh killed. The persian translation called sirre-akbar reached europe.
Hopefully the Islam in India and Pakistan - will adopt and evolve using the
Dara Shikoh version rather than that of Aurangzeb.

2) ``dream of non-existence`` is also again from the Upanishads (also called Vedanta)
The upanishads are the 4th part of the Veda (the other 3 parts are samhita, brahmana,
and aranyaka). Upanishads are called Vedanta - because the are considered to
contain the essence of the veda. This concept of waking up from `maya` is fundamental
to the Advaita siddhanta. The idea is that one gets `moksha` (liberation from the cycle
of life and death) when one attains `brahma-jnana`

3) Many of these so called `sufis` are remnants of pre-islamic thought and ways that
exist in the sub-continent. However, there were a few sufi`s who acted as agents of
the more hardcore sunni islam.

naqshbandi:

Enjoyed your story about Hazrad Sarmand. Do you anything abuout Kashmiri sufis and the relationship between them and the Hindu Rishis? I am told that the shaivite rishis and Muslim sufis were very close, even the shaivite mantra bore close resemblance to the Muslim sufi chant.

Everything on this site ends up in a pissing contest of stale religious dogma by insidious individuals with hidden agendas.Not on this board too!!!.Sickening!!.

Cayenne,

How come you have not posted a link to skyscraper city yet ? :)
Dude, it is high time you spent a little time understanding your own cultural and
dharmic background. It will make you a more complete person.

The Indian economy is growing now, it is great. It will suffer a correction and will
again grow - it is all a part of the economic cycle. One thing we must be glad about
however, is the weakening of the commies.

Re: # 50 Naqshbandi

You write``Urstruly: sadly you have misunderstood what bida`h means. NOT every new thing in the religion is a bad bida`h. The traditional Sunni ulama have divided bida`h into different categories: haram, makruh, mandub, wajib. ``

Reply:

I accept and subscribe to these categories or classification of innovations. For example, Holy Prophet (pbuh) himself encouraged innovation in the matter of fiqah and jurisprudence using ijtehad. But what I wrote was that ``innovation in the matters of faith is haram and forbidden. For eaxmple, an overwhelming number of people in subcontinent have started believing that Quwwali is a form of worship or getting intoxicated with hemp or even liquor to get into the condition of ``jazb`` is ok, since it brings you `closer to God`. Or they ``believe`` that dead pirs and saints have powers to give them what is only attributed to Allah Himself. This is shirk. Lets not forget that Islam came to finish Iconolatery in all shapes and forms whether it is in the form of worshiping dead or alive pirs, or their tombs, or by whirling like midless zombies or any other form of ``worship`` that Holy Prophet (pbuh) has not practiced himself. Why can`t we keep our religion simple and straightforward as it was given to us - why do we have to innovate to make it complicated.

“Presently, I am drowned [mustaghraq] in Negation [9] ; I have not yet reached the (spiritual) station of Affirmation yet. If I read the full kalimah in this state, I will be telling a lie.”
I am in tears...........no words can express this essense of Islam which cannot be fathomed by the literalists................

Regarding the miracles part, I agree with you Sattar mian!! I am also amazed that some one who understands Hazrat Sarmad`s metaphors fails to understand the richness of clear metaphors that the Prophet (Sal Allaahu Alayhi wa Sallam) had used. I did not know that naqshabandi tariqah relies on the dominent literalist Sunni understanding of metaphors which turned Aurangzeb into a murderer of Hazrat Samrad.
One needs to interpret the metaphors through the language of one`s heart (like his statement that ``There is not God.`` ) that Hazrat Samrad was versed with- and not make the same mistake of taking literalist interpretation of the clear metaphors in Quran.

Re: # 57


naqsh,

....... i honestly believe that your brand of sufi islam is much better and a lot less dangerous than urstruly`s puritanical and stern wahabism that cause people to blow themselves up ......... i liken your islam to the hippie culture based on psychaedelic drugs and rock and roll music - everyone was happy ............ actuallytey were very very happy ........... i remember going to the mazar of bari imam (in the good old days before they started setting off bombs) and drinking the heavenly elixir pounded by the happy malangs to the chants of ``allah hu`` and the tinkling of gunghroo bells ......... it was indeed a spiritual experience ! ...... i never felt closer to god ...........

Re: # 66

satyamvada

Bullshit!.Doing what you say will only mess up a person even more.The evidence is all around you.I needn`t say more.

CORRECT CONCEPT OF ``MAJZOB`` ACCORDING TO REAL SUFIA`S

The status of the people on the path of JAZB is greater than those on the path of Salook; the term JAZB implies absorption of the love of God. Those who strive on the path of Jazb are not left at the stage of Salook; God deliberately puts them through ordeals and tribulations in order to draw them close to Himself through the eternal power of absorption, that is, JAZBA-E-AZLI. All the Prophets of God were MAJZOOB, that is, they were drawn to God and were absorbed in God.

When the human soul is faced with painful ordeals and tribulations, the experience and the consequent humility makes it radiant. Just as iron or glass while possessing the capacity to shine, shine only after they have undergone a lengthy process of burnishing and then they shine so brightly that in them is reflected the face person looking gin. Striving in the path of God also works as a process of burnishing. The burnishing of the heart should be such a degree that the face is reflected in the resulting mirror of heart. What is meant by ‘reflection of the face? The meaning of this is to become the fulfillment of the saying, ‘Create with in you morals in accordance with “Character” of God’. The heart of the Salik, that is, the initiate, is a ‘mirror’ that is burnished so much through undergoing experiences of great suffering and tribulation that the reflection of the moral qualities of the Holy Prophet are fixed upon it. This occurs at a time when, having undergone numerous spiritual exercises and inner purification, there remain no resentment or impurity within. It is only when that this status is attained, Every Muslim believer needs this kind of cleansing to some extent. No believer will find salvation whilst being without the ‘mirror’ of the heart.

Ustruly:

Hazrat Mujdadad-ulf-sani was recepient of Quranic revelations

Hazrat Abdul-Kadir Jilani was recepient of Quranic revelattions.

Its easy to realize the bankcruptcy of so-called modern muslim scholars and thier followers, are you blind or do you want to read reality, do you want to close your ears, escape the reality.

God does not post-pone any of his attribute, His attributes or always present.

This is other matter, Quran is complete and final revelation. Now if verses of Quran are revealed to His chosen ones, Who are you to oppose that?

If you and your dry-scholars are not recepient of such grace, this does not mean that God has stopped has favours on others.

Mr. Naqishbandi.

Abu-Jahal is called Abu-Jahal for specific reasons, and he is assigned this name not by his choice.

To remove the insult your are putting on real sufia`s, your article and description of sufia`s is million years away from what real sufisim is, what real sufiism was.

REAL PHILOSOPHY OF SUFISM

---

God has placed within a human being few controlling factors: the mind, the heart. The mind uses reasoning and intelligence and its job is to be occupied at all times in formulating ideas and forming ever-new thoughts, explanations and arguments. The mind has been assigned the duty of assessing the results and conclusions of various formulations. The heart, on the other hand, is the ‘king’ of the whole being. It does not use argument and proof because it has a link with the king of kings i.e., God almighty. And that is why it is sometimes informed with a clear and evident revelation and sometimes with a secret or hidden revelation. Another way of stating this is to say that the mind is under control of heart. Mind is occupied with formulating ideas and schemes as well as the means and consequences. The heart has no business with that.

Within the heart God has placed the power of instinct as an ant manages to reach exactly the place where there is something sweet. The ant does not have any proof of the fact that there is something sweet at a certain place. It reaches there because God has provided it with the instinct that guides it. In this sense heart shares similarity with the ant because it too has an instinctive sense within it that guides it and that does not depend upon proofs, arguments, conclusions and results. However it is quite another matter that the mind is able to and does provide such proofs for the ‘heart’.

One meaning of the heart is apparent and physical. The other meaning of the heart is spiritual. The literal meaning of the term Qalb [Arabic for heart] is that which moves around or returns. As the heart is the source of circulation of blood in the body, it is referred to as Qalb. In the spiritual sense it’s meaning is that the progress that a human being wishes to achieve is also based around ‘heart’. Just as the circulation of blood, crucial for sustaining human life, originates from the heart, so the spiritual progress is dependent upon the spiritual heart.

Some ignorant people including some philosophers of today, who place the mind at the center of all the best activity, do not know that this mind is only the seat of cognitive powers of reasoning and argument. The power of thought and memory is in the mind but there is as an aspect of the heart that makes it the ultimate sovereign inside human body. The activity of the mind has a contrived element about it that is not present in the case of the ‘heart’. That is why the heart bears a resemblance to Rabb-ul-Arsh, that is, the Lord of the Heavenly Throne. The ‘heart’ is able to recognize spiritual truths without proofs and arguments, purely through its instinctive powers. That is why it is stated in a Hadith of the Holy Prophet: “Istafil qalba”, that is, ask your heart for a verdict – it does not states ask your mind for a verdict.

It is to the heart that the ‘cord’ of God is linked and no one should consider this a far-fetched idea. It is, indeed, difficult and abstruse but those who purify themselves know that the heart does possesses such noble qualities. If the heart did not possess such qualities, then the very existence of the human being would have been considered useless. The Sufis and those who carry out spiritual exercises know this well that the heart has been seen giving out light in the form of pillars of light that reach towards the skies in a straight line. This experience is certain and well witnessed. Those who have taken such exercises or those who have decided to journey through the different stages of SALOOK, that is mystic initiation, they have found this to be true according to their experiences. It is as if there is a fine thread connecting Arsh and Qalb, linking the Divine Throne and the spiritual heart. At this stage the Qalb finds pleasure in the commands it receives from its Lord God – it is not dependent upon external proofs and evidence. It becomes MULHIM, that is, one who is a recipient of Divine Revelation, and internally converses with God and forms verdicts. However, it is true that as long as the heart remains only a heart, it becomes a proof of the condition illustrated in the following verse of the Holy Quran:

“If we had but listened or possessed sense” (CH 67:11)

That is, there is a time when a human being does not possess the powers of heart and mind, Then there comes a time when the mind develops its powers and faculties and then a time comes when the Qalb becomes engulfed by light – a light bursts forth and it is illuminated. When the time comes for the ‘heart’ to come to the fore, the human being attains spiritual maturity and the heart rules over the mind. At that stage, the powers of the mind do not have supremacy over the heart. It should be noted that the different states of the mind are not specific to the believers alone. All use the mind alike. Those who are involved in worldly affairs and in trade and business all use the powers of the mind and their mental faculties develop to the full. Every day new ideas and inventions are made to further their affairs.

However, when the work of the Qalb is carried out, it is then that a person becomes God’s. It is at that time that all inner powers of rule and control become under the power and rule of the ‘heart’, which attains a firm control, power and strength. It is at such a stage that a human being becomes a complete human being. This is the time when he becomes a living proof of the following verse of the Holy Qura’n where God states:

“I have breathed into him of My Spirit” (CH 15:30)

It is a time when even the angels prostrate before him. At that time he becomes a new human being. His soul is filled with pleasure and joy. It should be remembered that this pleasure does not resemble the carnal pleasure of an adulterer, nor does it resembles the enjoyment that is gained by listening to singing. No, it does not resemble any such thing and this should not deceive one. The pleasure of the soul is attained when a person’s being begins to melt and flow like water at the thought of and fear of God. It is at such a stage that he becomes the ‘Kalima’, that is, ‘the work’ and the essence of this verse:

“Verily His command, when He intends a thing, is only that he says to it ``Be” and it is.”
(CH 36:83)

Now some people consider that by visiting some holy person and without any effort or inner purification, they will be able to join the fold of the Truthful. This is just wishful thinking. You should study the Holy Quran to see that you cannot win the pleasure of god unless you too endure hardship and tribulation, as did the Prophets of God. Some of their ordeals and suffering were so extreme that according to Quran:

“Until the Messenger and the believers who were with him, cried out: When will the help of God arrive? Surely God’s help is nigh. (CH 2:215)

It has always been the case that the servants of God were put through many an ordeal and hardship before they were accepted by God.

I hope you have read ``REAL PHILOSOPHY OF SUFISM``, then real sufi has/had no need of being naked. That is just plain ignorance ``Jihalat``. As it has been shown by light of this time, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian the promissed messiah of Hindus, Jews, Christiens and Muslims.

450+ hadith and the new face of Islam …

Urstruly claims 450+ ahadith to support end of prophethood … but is unable to cite a single one to make his case. The first one he quoted, proved the exact opposite. Yes, hadith Urstruly quoted actually proved continuation of prophethood. Here’s how …

According to Urstruly, the dear Prophet said: ”I am the last prophet … and this mosque of mine is the last mosque.”

I think he only read the first half of the hadith. I drew his attention to second half (the part about last mosque) … and asked … ” Were any mosques built after the Prophet’s mosque? If yes, then what does ‘last mosque’ mean?” Urstruly could not come up with a straight answer.

I explained … here “last” means “most exalted” and a “model for others who follow”. And that the Prophet is the most exalted prophet, and other prophets will be ones who follow in his footsteps.

In response, Urstruly claimed (... get this ….) “one has to understand this hadith in context of numerous other ahadith in order to make the notion of end of prophethood palatable” [I remember ... since I had to look up meaning of `palatable`].

My head started to spin. It is not supposed to be this complicated, I thought. “What other hadith are you referring to”, I asked. But he stopped responding.

But there’s more …

This comedy continued … only with a different clown. This time it was Naqshbandi.

A few days later, Naqsh quoted same hadith to support end of prophethood. Déjà vu … I thought … it was too much of a coincidence. I drew Naqshbandi’s attention towards the second half of the hadith … and asked him to comment. He too failed to comment and became silent.

My personal conclusions ….

The issue is no longer about prophethood … or if Issa resides above the clouds or what. The main issue is that of maintaining integrity in one’s thoughts and in discussions … about treating others with honesty, without scamming them into accepting your views.

It became clear that mullahs are not interested in having honest discussions. They resort to trickery at the first sign of being shown to be incorrect … and are bent upon pushing their views even if it requires intellectual dishonesty.

This new face of Islam is a disappointment for me.

Urstruly,

A few clarifications are called for.

You claim 450+ hadith in support of continuation of prophethood

How did you came up with this figure?

If a hadith is passed through a chain of 13 narrators before it is written down, and is recorded in 5 different books of hadith, does that make it one hadith, or 13 ahadith, or 13x5=65 ahadith?


What makes you say that divine revelation ended?

Prophethood and revelation are two different things.
Are you confusing one with the other?

What do you make of hadith about return of Issa-ibne-Marriam?

- Will a prophet from two-thousand years ago reappear, in flesh and blood?

- Will he continue to receive revelations from Allah Almighty?

- If/when he reappears, what should one make of Quranic verses that declare him a prophet for Israelites only?


Naqsh … re #61 … comments on Miracles of Quran?

I like sufism `cause you and whirl and twirl and get on a high and space out of the daily and the mundane, for a while atleast.No substance abuse here ala `ganja` and `bhang` like some hindus do. All religions had an escape route and that was the main attraction in the good old days.Nowadays we have many diversions at the tip of our fingers and the business of religion has also changed.I don`t know or understand the higgledyposh (hadith et alia). I don`t want to either.I want to live.

A reply to the Qadianis from the Qur`an and Sunnah

There are more than a hundred verses in the holy Qur`aan in support of the belief of ``Khatm-e-Nubuwwat`` (finality of prophethood). Since this article is being written in a short and comprehensive manner, I will quote just three verses.

1. This day I have perfected your religion for you, computed my favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islaam as your religion.

Soorah 5, Verse 4

It is evident from this verse that Allah Ta’aala has completed the religion of Islaam for this Ummah, therefore, there is no need for a new prophet after the Holy Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wasallam.

2. Say! O people! I am sent unto you all as the apostle of Allah. . .

Soorah 7, Verse 158

The word ``all`` in this verse clarifies that the Holy Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wasallam has been sent for the entire humanity till the Day of Judgement. Thus, this is a clear announcement of the ``finality of prophethood.``


3. We have not sent thee but as a universal (Messenger) to mankind giving them glad-tidings and warning them (against sin ), but most people understand not.

Soorah 34, Verse 28

In this verse the Holy Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wasallam has been mentioned as a ``Universal`` messenger. Therefore, there is no need for another prophet after the Holy Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wasallam.

Commentary of the Verses through Ahaadeeth

The belief of ``Khatm-e-Nubuwwat`` (finality of prophethood) has also been stressed in a number of Ahaadeeth which reach the sublime degree of Tawaatur (continuty). That is why Allaamah Aaloosi rahmatullahi alayh has said:

``And the Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wasallam being the final prophet is a belief based on what the Qur`aan has described, and the Sunnah has stated clearly and the (Consensus) Ijmaa`a of the Ummah. Therefore the claimant or the believer of a belief other than this will be declared a kaafir and killed if he insists.

(Roohul Ma`aani, Page 65, Volume 7)

Now, we will quote a few authentic Ahaadeeth for the benefit of the readers.

1.

``My likeness and the likeness of the prophets before me is the likeness of a person who built a house and made it complete and beautiful, except the place of a brick in a corner. So people began to go around it and wonder at it and say, ``Why has not this brick been placed?`` (The Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wasallam) said, ``I am the brick and I am the last of the prophets.``

Bukhaari, Page 501, Volume 2

Muslim, Page 248, Volume 2
2.

``The Holy Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wasallam said to Ali radhiyallahu anhu, ``You stand to me in the same relation as Haaroon alayhis salaam stood to Moosaa alayhis salaam, except that there is no prophet after me. ``

Bukhaari, Page 633, Volume 2

Muslim, Page 278, Volume 2
3.

``Verily, the apostle-ship and prophethood has finished. So there is no apostle and no prophet after me.``

Tirmizi
4.

``I am the last of the prophets and you are the last of the Ummahs (nations).``

Ibne Maajah, Page 307
5.

``....Verily, thirty liars will be born in my Ummah; every one of them will claim to be a prophet, though I am the last of the prophets, and there will be no prophet after me.``

Tirmizi, Page 45, Volume 2

There are more than 200 authentic Ahaadeeth which support the belief of ``Khatm-e-Nubuwwat`` (finality of prophethood). Hence, this doctrine is decidedly and unanimously acknowledged an article of faith in Islaam. At the same time I would like to draw your attention particularly towards the last Hadeeth where the Holy Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wasallam, besides confirming this belief in hundreds of his sayings, clearly predicted that claimants to prophethood will be born in his Ummah after him. The Holy Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wasallam has, therefore, warned the Muslims to beware of such impostors and always keep in mind that: ``I am the last of the prophets``, which obviously means that, ``there will be no prophet of any kind after me. ``

For more see this website: http://www.islaam.org/Finality/Finality-1.htm#The%20Finality%20Of