How Free is ’free?’

#49, Khamkhwa:

Khamkhwa`s button got pressed
Mr. Khamkhwa is upset because he got the following review on his FP article:
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#25 by premwalla on July 21, 2005 10:54am PT
What a stupid display of utter stupidity. Take your own advice and stick an agarbatti up your ass.

PS - don`t forget to light it first.
****************************
This comment about Khamkhwa`s stupid article on FP got him so mad that he is proliferating profanity all over FP.

Lesson: Never criticize Khammy`s writing style. He can dish it out but can`t take it - only when it comes to criticism. Other things he can take in with great delight.

HA HA HA

#49, Khamkhwa you take the cake for a confused Paki. Most Pakis are confused about the type of government they need, but you have a more basic confusion. How many times have you expressed your perplexion over your own gender? No wonder you can see issues from both sides of the sexual divide. :)

Paki press is a lot freer than it has ever been in the past. But, it still has a long way to go before it attains European or Indian standards of freedom.

#49, Khamkhwa,
Khamkhwa meN gaaliyan buk rahe ho. I am sure that your lady friend really appreciates your support. Also, your mom is very proud of you in your unique ability to memorize colorful language.
The only thing worse than your style is the way you write.
Salim

Re: # 48
oh... i wanted the world to see and recognise the newest messiah and his messages...i am quoting it again to refresh your memory...;)

SemenAsha the cock-sucking turd

SemenAsha you cock-sucking turd, why are you deleting messages?
SemenAsha, You are the ugliest cock-sucking, pussy-peddling, anal-taking bitch in creation. Fuck you.

Khamkhwa #42,
Once again you are displaying your pukka Paki credentials of yellow journalism. You deliberately presented only one side of the issue. Is there any wonder why the world is learning to detest Pakis? It`s primarily because of people like you. Changing the subject, now tell me how the Kashmiris would be free under Paki rule.

Salim

PU teacher threatened with sacking for writing on inflation

* Journalists, APNS vice president condemn notice

By Ali Waqar

LAHORE: A senior Punjab University teacher has been issued a notice under the Removal form Service Ordinance (RSO) 2000 by the Punjab governor’s secretariat for writing a column on inflation in a national newspaper.

Journalists and All Pakistan Newspapers Society (APNS) Vice President Mujeebur Rehman Shami, speaking at the PU Mass Communication Department, condemned the move as a violation of the right to freedom of expression.

bbabu u need to get your facts straight -- pakistani newspapers carried stories from international wire services of the london attacks -- by AFP, reuters and AP so on-- good you read the dawn editorial on the saudi women drivers issue -- perhaps you need to read dawn, the news and daily times more carefully -- and by the way, since you seem to be such an expert on the pakistani print media why not post under your real name -- oh, wait a min, i thought courage and integrity were things only pakistani journalists lacked -- haha

Re: # 36
Bachoon jaisi baat mat karo............I am praising you for doing the right thing this time.........but sometimes you tend to show your immaturity when you get into the slanging and name calling (uncle tom!!) match.......

Many news items are not published simply out of (editorial) choice. Choice is a matter of values. `Man killed dog` may be very important news for dogs, but not for men, unless the dead dog belongs to an important man.

rozaiba #1
`` The media in Pakistan is indeed very free. ``

The Pakistani media (dawn, jang etc) are not completely free. They were very controlled in what they say.

1. The first response to the suspects in the London bombings was to identify them as South Asian as opposed to pakistani. The response was uniform among the English language newspapers.

2. They never reported on the Sudan civil war against Animist rebels. They did report the Darfur since the victims were also Muslim.

3. They danced around with the facts when anti-Chinese riots broke out in Indonesia.

4. They are pretty silent on anything critical of Saudi Arabia. This is the most serious criticism. I have seen only one editorial critical of women right to drive. It was last week. Maybe the checks did not arrive on time :-)

5. They are awfully quiet on the Burmese government which is among the top ten in terms of brutality and human right violations. Also it is a country that borders India and is in the neighborhood.

Re: # 29
..and this is the kind of free speech this moron_mike hunt aka salim aka palam wants for himself...;)

palam123456789

Member since: June 20, 2005 read iLog
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July 15, 2005

SemenAsha the cock-sucking turd

SemenAsha you cock-sucking turd, why are you deleting messages?
SemenAsha, You are the ugliest cock-sucking, pussy-peddling, anal-taking bitch in creation. Fuck you.

Re: # 40 kaal

Good points.

omar_r_quariashi

The tack you and most other Pakistani journalists adopt is completely different from the one taken up by Amir Ali. No one of us can say whether you guys are right or Amir Ali is right, but while the Pakistani government can safely ignore all you, they can`t ignore Amir Ali.

For instance, in your editorial, you make excellent points. You point out that the Pakistani government had said the right things but has not followed up sufficiently. The government has made attempts to reform Madrassas. It has tried to control militancy and curb religious fanaticism. It has sought to mobilize progressive and liberal Muslim scholars and intellectuals on behalf of an enlightened course. However, the government`s efforts were half-hearted and have failed.

That`s well stated, but Amir Ali has followed an entirely different direction. He has focused on uncovering specific reports that the Pakistani government has been pro-actively working with Jihadi terrorists and protecting international criminals.

In essence, you are alleging good-natured incompetence. Amir Ali is alleging criminality.

arjun_M -- morons of course will never learn -- you stupid idiot did you even read the Dawn/Daily Times editorials ? jai ram jee kee

mullah omar: The paki jihadis are freer than the paki press

To Many, Talk of a Crackdown in Pakistan Seems Hollow
By SOMINI SENGUPTA and DAVID ROHDE

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan, July 19 - Three and a half years ago, in a speech that crystallized a post-Sept. 11 turnaround, President Pervez Musharraf vowed to eradicate extremism in his country. ``We will take strict action against any Pakistani who is involved in terrorism inside the country or abroad,`` he said.

That was Pakistan, Jan. 12, 2002.

This week, evidence that three of the four London bombing suspects had visited Pakistan for up to three months last year has thrown new light on old facts.

Despite government promises and denials, radical groups continue to operate in Pakistan. Religious schools, or madrasas, still indoctrinate and recruit would-be militants to fight abroad. Several leaders and members of these extremist groups, arrested in 2002, are back on the street. Militant training camps remain; one Western diplomat said they have just ``changed addresses.``

Now, Pakistani officials have answered the London attacks with an investigation into any potential links here and calls for a fresh crackdown on militant groups. But the question arises whether the new steps will be any more effective in snuffing out extremism than efforts past.

On Monday, an editorial in The Daily Times, an English-language newspaper, asked in a headline: ``Is Pakistan Still a Launch-Pad for Terrorism?``

If the London bombing suspects did arrive here seeking contacts with extremists, they may not have been the only ones, American and Pakistani officials say.

Another young Briton of Pakistani descent, Zeeshan Siddique, was arrested on his visit here last May. He is being investigated for ties to radical Islamist groups and bomb plots in London. A journal kept by Mr. Siddique includes a March 6, 2005, entry, in which he laments that one of his contacts is ``chickening out.`` A week later, he learned that ``wagon is now called off.`` British officials are trying to discern whether ``wagon`` refers to a planned attack.

#34 by omar_r_quraishi on July 20, 2005 1:43am PT


that, to you, is dwelling on generalisms??


Let`s see you name names....


Press freedom ‘predators’ in 2004

PARIS: RSF released a 34-strong list of what it calls media freedom “predators” – leaders and organisations around the world it accuses of “direct responsibility for press freedom violations”.

RSF said that because of the individuals or organisations it named, “journalists have been murdered, imprisoned, physically attacked and threatened in 2004”.

New to the list are Bangladeshi Interior Minister Lutfozzaman Babor, Bangladesh’s Maoist party Purbobanglar, Ivory Coast’s Young Patriots militia, Gambian President Yahya Jammeh and Nigeria’s State Security Service. The list also includes the name of Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf. afp

This was in The daily times 04/29

Press not free in Pakistan, says Freedom House

By Khalid Hasan

Washington: Freedom House, which monitors the sate of freedom around the world every year, has placed Pakistan among countries where the press is “Not Free.”

According to Freedom House which released the survey this week, “Pakistan dropped from Partly Free to Not Free because of increased official harassment of journalists and media outlets, in addition to passage of a bill that increased penalties for defamation. The moves followed other aggressive measures taken over the last two years by military authorities to silence critical or investigative voices in the media. A number of journalists have been pressured to resign from prominent publications, charged with sedition, or arrested and intimidated by intelligence officials while in custody.” Only two countries - Pakistan and Kenya - registered a negative category shift in 2004, moving from Partly Free to Not Free. Pakistan was also among countries where Freedom House said “notable setbacks” had taken place. Others so listed were Kenya, Mexico, Venezuela, and in the United States itself.

ballu -- arent you the uncle tom muslim from india who used to criticize the likes of me endlessly and say that the pakistani press isnt free -- you are that very uncle tom , arent you?

Re: # 34
Wel done Omar- I think the hour of reckoning for Mush`s Pakistan is going to be this Hasba bill and how he ensures that it does not go through.

arjun_m -- i thought u were only an RSS lover and card-carrying VHP activist -- but your last post seems to suggest your also blind as a bat -- read the article again u moron -- its not generalized, it full of specific examples and policy measures taken by the MMA govt in the NWFP and is specifically on the hasba bill`s passage in the NWFP provincial legislature -- that, to you, is dwelling on generalisms??

and this is an editorial i wrote for my paper which appeared in the july 20 edition:


Not by rhetoric alone



PRESIDENT Musharraf has spoken the right words in combating rising religious extremism and fanaticism. Speaking at a national youth convention in Islamabad, he said that it was important to fight this scourge because if elected to political office such elements would take Pakistan back to the dark ages. With reference to the London attacks of July 7, he castigated those who advocated or supported such actions saying that it was in fact against the tenets of Islam to blow up oneself in order to kill innocent people. Without doubt, this is the right stance to adopt in dealing with the menace of religious obscurantism and fanaticism.

The only problem — and a major one at that — however, is that we have heard these words many times before. We have also seen that the some of the key institutions in the country which can take the initiative in fighting the fanatics have done little to expose the dangers of militancy. For instance, the government has completely failed in its half-hearted attempt to regulate the madressahs, to modernize their curriculum and to bring these institutions within the ambit of government monitoring. In fact, the whole approach to this issue of madressah registration has been obfuscated with the education minister supporting regulation and the religious affairs minister opposing it. The madressahs are now in the spotlight once again because three of the London bombers are believed to have visited some in Pakistan prior to the attacks. Similarly, the government has also failed in its attempts to stop mosque imams from routinely branding those of other sects or faiths as ‘kafirs’ or from glorifying a militant version of Islam at odds with, and bent on converting, the non-Muslim world. It has failed to mobilize the active support of Muslim scholars and intellectuals who believe in a progressive and liberal vision of Islam and who could be an important bulwark against religious intolerance and bigotry. And, there are now reports that jihadi training camps are back in business, although with much less publicity. So where is the government in all of this? The fight against religious extremism and for a more progressive and tolerant Pakistan has to be fought on these fronts but, regrettably, it is nowhere to be found. Until that happens, what the president has said will remain empty rhetoric.



you`re pretty much a paki-hating moron arjun_m -- i suggest for your own sake and credibility (if there is any) you try and be just a bit balanced

Controls are ubiquitous. Distinctions arise regarding the scope, locus, and nature of control mechanisms.

Different control mechanisms have different degrees of (internal and external) legitimacy, and therefore create different `internal` consequences in the long-term.

In the short-term, and from objective external perspectives, they can certainly look very much the same.

Re: # 23
YOU ARE SO WRONG HERE.
YES, AMERICAN MEDIA DID NOT REPORT SUFFERINGS OF IRAQIS AS THEY SHOULD HAVE.
BUT NOT FOR THE SAME REASON I.E. POLITICAL BLACKOUT AS IN PAKISTAN BUT DUE TO LACK OF INTEREST.
GOVERNMENT OF USA DOES NOT CONTROL THEIR MEDIA BUT PRIVATE OWNERS AND VIEWERS INTEREST, RATINGS ETC DICTATE THE COVERAGE.

WOULD A ROTTING CORPSE IN IRAQ MAKE A PLEASANT THING FOR AMERICANS TO WATCH AT DINNERTIME? NO, BECAUSE IT IS NOT A PLEASANT SIGHT.

AMERICA CARES ABOUT IT`S INTERESTS AND IT`S PEOPLE AND IRAQIS ARE NEITHER.

HOPEFULY NOW YOU UNDERSTAND.

Here`s where we indians are at.Maybe, paks should learn from india`s example??.Press freedom is a start.After all, Mr.Singh was born in Pakistan.His speech to the US Congress should be a matter of pride for Paks too.In the same token, i dare say your present dictatorship is the most enlightened , `cause Mr.Musharaf was born in India, and freedom and openness is part of our indian psyche.Here`s the BBC take on Mr.Singh`s speech....

Last Updated: Tuesday, 19 July, 2005, 16:36 GMT 17:36 UK

BBC News

India assures US over nuclear aid

Mr Singh is being treated as an honoured guest in the US

India`s Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has told the US Congress his country can be trusted with nuclear technology.

US President George W Bush said on Tuesday he would push for Congress to lift sanctions on supplying civilian nuclear technology to Delhi.

Mr Singh told Congress that India and the US must draw on shared democratic values to boost trade and fight terror.

Correspondents say Mr Singh`s US trip is set to cement a major alliance in the new diplomatic landscape.

The Indian leader on Tuesday became one of a small group of trusted allies invited to address both houses of the US Congress.

He told US lawmakers the ``field of civil nuclear energy is a vital area for co-operation between our two countries``.

We are at a juncture in history where we can embark on a partnership that draws both on principle and pragmatism

Manmohan Singh


Breakthrough in India-US ties

India has obeyed all international laws aimed at checking the proliferation of nuclear technology, Mr Singh said, even though ``we have witnessed unchecked nuclear proliferation in our own neighbourhood`` - an apparent reference to neighbour Pakistan.

India and Pakistan conducted tit-for-tat nuclear tests in 1998, sparking sanctions and condemnation from the US.

President Bush`s willingness to share nuclear technology with India marks an important shift in US foreign policy, correspondents say.

UN reform

Mr Singh told Congress that India and the US had much in common: ``You are the world`s oldest democracy, we are its largest.``

He said the ``openness of our societies makes us more vulnerable`` to terrorism.

He urged the US to invest in India`s development, particularly in information technology.

``We are at a juncture in history where we can embark on a partnership that draws both on principle and pragmatism,`` Mr Singh said.

Congress also cheered as Mr Singh spoke of the need to reform the United Nations, arguing the case for India to be included on the Security Council - a proposal President Bush has opposed.

``The voice of the world`s largest democracy cannot be unheard on the Security Council,`` he said.

#14 Miriamk (part)

The corporations you mention are generally so large that their interests cover too many diverse areas – they do not protect or project any one particular point of view on ANY issue. They are profit-driven and they mostly do not interfere with the day-to-day operations of news organizations – they mostly leave it to the judgment of the day-to-day operatives – not so much because it is the “right” thing to do, but because it is simply the most practical thing to do – why would anyone do something oneself when one has more experienced brains available (and one is paying them) to do the same work.

(An important exception when higher level ownership DOES get involved in a lower-level decision is when an issue can mess up the corporate image of the larger entity. Examples from the past would include R.J. Reynolds on tobacco, many corporations on disinvestment from the (then apartheid-practicing) South Africa, etc. The bottom line rule is – it is just not good business to be controversial if you are trying to enlarge your market base to the whole population. This is also the reason that many corporations would withhold advertisements from “controversial” programs.)

Because of the curiosity raised by your remarks regarding James Madison ([solution: well, the founding fathers (especially james madison) thought it was important that the public and not the merchants own the media. hmmm…wonder why?]), I felt inspired to go back and read on him some. (As you know, Madison made a major contribution to the ratification of the Constitution by writing, with Alexander Hamilton and John Jay, the Federalist essays – which eventually proved to be one of the triggers that led to U.S. independence.)

The problem I see is you make statements and attribute to Mr. Madison without any basis. Freedom of press was just one (relatively minor) issue in Madison’s drafting and supporting the “bill of rights” – what we would call the dangers of a rough-shod majority appears to have been the main driving force. Madison never said anything regarding private ownership of press – the argument advocated by you, which clearly appears to be a product of YOUR idle imagination. Here is what I see is the bulk of the story regarding Madison and the freedom of press.

In introducing the draft of what became the “bill of rights”, here is what Madison’s version of the speech and press clauses (introduced in the House of Representatives on June 8, 1789) said: “The people shall not be deprived or abridged of their right to speak, to write, or to publish their sentiments; and the freedom of the press, as one of the great bulwarks of liberty, shall be inviolable.” The final language (“Congress shall make no law respecting … abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; ….”) was agreed upon in conference.

Madison, like other American founding fathers, was probably heavily influenced by the model of common law set forth by William Blackstone in the 1700s, who stated: “The liberty of the press is indeed essential to the nature of a free state; but this consists in laying no previous restraints upon publications, and not in freedom from censure for criminal matter when published. Every freeman has an undoubted right to lay what sentiments he pleases before the public; to forbid this, is to destroy the freedom of the press: but if he publishes what is improper, mischievous, or illegal, he must take the consequences of his own temerity. …Thus, the will of individuals is still left free: the abuse only of that free will is the object of legal punishment. Neither is any restraint hereby laid upon freedom of thought or inquiry; liberty of private sentiment is still left; the disseminating, or making public, of bad sentiments, destructive to the ends of society, is the crime which society corrects.”

An interesting trivia: “Madison wrote 24 of his 29 Federalist essays in seven weeks, at the remarkable pace of three essays a week. Many of these essays rank among the best political thought ever produced.” Some people – when they get going – there is no stopping them!

(Unsought advice:) Please use initial caps appropriately in your remarks (and thus not “belittle” the U.S.)

Mohar 11 and YLH #23,
Both of you are so right. Sad, but it`s true that the US news organizations, especially Fox and even CNN, not to mention ABC, CBS, NBC, and inclluding the printed stuff is so jingoistic ever since the First Gulf War. I have been relying more and more on BBC for moderately unbiased news coverage. We just have to wait and see if the London terrorist attacks affect their objectivity. Funny thing, in Pakistan the most liberal environment for the press occurs during military dictatorships and the worst oppression is during the so-called democracies dominated by the ``liberal and progressive`` parties - PPP, PML, ML, and so on.
Chowk, of course, is a shining example of unbiased and fair environment - HA HA HA HA.
Salim

Re: # 12
``the families of the three Leeds-based bombers were originally, in all likelihood, from Mirpur, part of Pakistani Kashmir. Mirpuris form 70% of the British Muslim population, and the figure is even higher in northern towns``

This is from guardian quality newspaper. A classic case of stereotyping a community

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the reports are bombers and plotters background are very to what she writes--jamica

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faiselabad

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biochemist from egypt etc

Re: # 23 ylh

That`s true. Actually, post 9/11 media situation in US has been an eye-opener. The abject dereliction of duty on part of US media organizations is unprecendented........ Lack of professionalism is astounding ....... Display of mindless servility is just pathetic....

In some ways, it`s worse than what would have happened in a third world country under similar situation ....... Which is why Jon Stewart [of commedy central] is so popular these days :)

#25 by omar_r_quraishi on July 19, 2005 5:49am PT


it`s free enough for me to write this in my newspaper


It`s one thing to write in general terms...Try writing on specifics...Then you`ll know what abid ullah jan and shaheen sehbai went through...


well if you consider the guardian a rag,


The guardian has on it`s staff, a member of a brit-Pakistani terrorist group, the Hizb-ur-tahrir...nuff said...

it`s free enough for me to write this in my newspaper -- (arjun_M -- well if you consider the guardian a rag, then obviously we know who the moron here is -- )

http://www.dawn.com/2005/07/19/op.htm#5

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Towards a shackled society, perhaps

By Omar R. Quraishi


THE controversial Hasba bill passed by the NWFP Assembly on July 14 has already forced the federal government to seek the opinion of the Supreme Court regarding its constitutionality. Passed in the face of stiff opposition from the opposition MPAs and after an amendment which exempts all members of the provincial assembly from its applicability, the Hasba bill could well push the province into a process of Talibanization.

A day after its passage, the NWFP senior minister, Sirajul Haq, in his sermon at Peshawar’s Mohabbat Khan mosque, told the audience that the NWFP government had only done what it had promised its voters to do. These sentiments had been repeated a few days earlier by the secretary-general of the MMA, Maulana Fazlur Rahman, who had attended the assembly session as a visitor when the bill was initially tabled. Both said that the religio-political alliance was elected precisely on an Islamization platform and that the MMA government in the NWFP was only keeping the promise that it had made at the time of elections.

This line has been used consistently by Akram Durrani’s government, and from a strictly technical point of view, cannot really be challenged. The six-party MMA has a majority in the NWFP assembly and hence it can get any law passed. Passage of such a law would in fact, on the face of it, seem to be a step in line with democracy because the MPAs are the chosen representatives of those who elected them.

Clearly, the passage of any bill by a legislature is supposed to represent the will of the people after which the legislation acquires the force of law. Nobody can take away this right of law-making from them, and certainly not in a democratic dispensation. The problem, however, is that sometimes actions which may be technically faultless can be very retrogressive, even ruinous for society. One cannot find a more telling example of this from history than Adolf Hitler who was put into power by massive electoral majorities, and rose to become the chancellor of Germany.

The point here is not to compare the MMA with the Third Reich but to emphasize that sometimes even elected governments can make terrible mistakes, and the MMA-led one in the NWFP may well be on its way to that. It has made the unfortunate assumption that being elected to public office allows it to make laws that are tantamount to gross interference in the private lives of the people, which is precisely what world happen if the Orwellian Hasba bill is signed into law by the NWFP governor (who, thankfully, has said that he will resist any such move).

Under the law, the governor, in consultation with the chief minister, will appoint a religious scholar as an ombudsman or mohtasib. This official will have powers to “reform society” in accordance with the teachings of Islam and whose main job will be to “discourage vice and encourage virtue”. He will be vested with the power to “reform society” in accordance with the teachings of Islam.

The office of the ombudsman — which will be set up at the district and tehsil levels — will have the power to issue directives to ensure that those living in an area under his jurisdiction adhere to the tenets of Islam and to ensure society is indeed being ‘Islamized’. To discourage vice and encourage virtue and to enforce his directives, the proposed law sanctions a police force to be at the ombudsman’s beck and call.

Even more worryingly, no person will be able to challenge in court any action “taken in good faith” by the ombudsman. Critics — and these include the federal government and the PML which has warned that it will challenge the law once it is passed — have argued that in the presence of the Objectives Resolution in the Constitution there is no need to have a particular law to ensure that people live their lives in accordance with Islamic teachings and that the system proposed under the Hasba law will create a parallel system of justice, dependent on the notions and interpretations of one individual with immense powers to interfere in the people’s private lives. Besides, apart from being a parallel system, of justice, the Hasba bill places the office of the ombudsman above the law.

The powers of the ombudsman include “ensuring Islamic values at public places, discouraging business activities or playing during prayer times, begging, misusing loudspeakers, preventing corruption in government departments, protecting state property, creating a

spirit of public service among government servants and ensuring parents’ obedience by children”.

The vague and ambiguous provision of “ensuring Islamic values at public places” is bound to open a Pandora’s box because it would be safe to assume that the person whom the NWFP government will appoint as ombudsman will share the MMA’s rigid and retrogressive interpretation of religion, and of Islamic values in particular.

A situation can well be imagined in which police will stop and question all men and women walking or driving together to check if the man is ‘mehram’ or not. ‘Ensuring obedience of parents by children’ seems all right and is a worthy goal but a government-appointed official ensuring this is not only absurd but also seems unworkable and far fetched.

Implementation of the Hasba bill could well take the NWFP back to the Dark Ages. Helped by the police — who will assume the role of the dreaded mutawwa or religious police of Saudi Arabia — we could well see business and shops being forcibly shut down at prayer times and people being coerced into going to the mosque. This is quite contrary to the true spirit of Islam which relies on a direct and personal relationship between the believer and the God and emphasizes that there should be no compulsion in religion.

Unfortunately, the religious alliance in power in the NWFP fails to appreciate this precept and its logical corollary, believing that religious, moral and ethical values are in need of being enforced through coercion and threat of coercion. In fact, the MMA government has repeatedly said that enforcing such a system is precisely its goal. Its leaders, and many ministers in the NWFP, have openly expressed their admiration for the Taliban and some of the MMA’s component parties, especially Maulana Fazlur Rahman’s JUI, have had very close links with the Taliban. However, that should be of little comfort to many people residing in the province who will soon face the consequences of the proposed system of Islamization forcing religion down people’s throats.

For instance, under the MMA government, women have been at the receiving end of discrimination and other forms of unjust treatment. Discriminatory policies have been followed by the provincial government such as a ban on male doctors treating women, forced segregation in government colleges, prohibiting male coaches from teaching women and so forth.

Then there have been MMA-backed or affiliated groups, such as the Shabab-i-Milli which have acted as vigilantes and gone about exercising a very misogynist agenda of forcing women out of public life. This they have done by indulging in activities like blackening female faces on advertizing billboards or forcing men to stop women from voting in local and provincial elections.

In fact, in one highly publicized case, one such group in Haripur in Hazara district — known to be traditionally less conservative than the rest of the province — forced the local administration to ban the hiring of women in public call offices. The reason for this ridiculous action was that the presence of women in PCOs was promoting immoral practices when in fact women saw it as a much-needed opportunity for them to augment their family’s income.

Other than women, all creative individuals and groups such as musicians and artists were driven out of the province after their activities were banned.

The situation is bound to get worse because under the proposed new law, the ombudsman will have the power to imprison or fine anyone who listens to music or takes photographic images. The NGOs, too, should prepare themselves for some rough times ahead.

Working in the more backward areas of the NWFP, they have been routinely harassed, criticized and herried and have had to deal with a very hostile environment in the province. This has led to some tragic incidents in which some NGO activists have been physically harmed, and for some cases even killed, as happened recently in the case of a woman, who was working for the Aurat Foundation, and her daughter. One can well imagine what will happen once the Hasba bill begins to be enforced, because senior MMA leaders in the past have repeatedly called most of the NGOs ‘un-Islamic’.

Other than making the NWFP a joyless and shackled society whose residents will probably go through the vigorous process of legally enforcing religion (and

a highly retrogressive interpretation at that) the Hasba bill also has the potential to snowball into a confrontation between the provincial and federal governments, with far-reaching legal and political implications.

Email:omarq@cyber.net.pk

It`s all about `control`.About who will `control` whom.Pak-mullah-istan is not unusual from any other society in this regard.

I am afraid the War in Iraq and its coverage in the American Media shows conclusively that the establishment controls the media in even the ``Freest`` countries...

It is always something or the other... in every society....

Pakistani printed media is pretty free. Also Pakistani government`s drive against terrorism is fairly genuine now.

What happens is that journalists and anti-terror functionaries are expected to stay away from digging too deep about `certain areas` of government`s functioning. Those who do not impose that amount of self-censorship take very large personal risks.

Mr. Amir Mir is a typical example of a journalist who has not been sufficiently careful. He has been consistently following a couple of stories that most other Pakistani journalists now hint at, but have never dared make the focus of their writing.

#20, Mr. Dillidost,
Thank you for the compliment, but Pakiland is not ready for a PM named Chauhan. :)
AlKayda would forget everything else and concentrate on yours truly.
Salim.

Re: # 18
Well Said,
I have been saying all along you should be Pakistani PM.

Aha,
Careful she is, not too much, not too little.
It must be hard for Pakistani writers to make a point without attacking the present day rulers. Examples chosen are always of the past.

Good Job Beena Sarwar!

miriam:

thanks for reminding us:

A popular Government without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own governors, must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives. James Madison

we indeed live in Farce and Tragic times;

there are also dangers inherent in the other end of the pendulum...we know what happens in the totalitarian regimes where the media is state owned...

to play with fellow torontonians famous words it is not anymore true that the medium is the message

increasingly this is evident everywhere...control of the medium is the message

lve

t

Re: # 13
arjun-m
i am dissappointed well informed person like you has got the answer wrong.

beena:

i am glad to see this article. freedom of speech and the related issue of censorship are certainly key in any society. hats off to you and other journalists in pakistan who continue to push the envelope even at great personal cost.

temp:
#10

point taken about journalists’ subjectivity and pre-occupation with “breaking news”, and the ensuing one-up-manship. but journalists (in the u.s.) also answer to a higher power; the corporation that owns the respective company they work for. there are but 10 conglomerates in the u.s. which own most of the media. a few of the largest being aol time warner, news corp. (rupert murdoch’s) and viacom. news today (in the u.s.) is not just a public service but also a profit-making initiative. and the bottom line dictates what is newsworthy and what isn’t. i would also imagine the ethos of the corporation and even the news team interferes with objectivity.

solution: well, the founding fathers (especially james madison) thought it was important that the public and not the merchants own the media. hmmm…wonder why?

miriam

#12 by aslam644 on July 18, 2005 9:44am PT


Didn`t expect any better from the rag that has a hizb-u-tahrir member on it`s staff..


To compound the crisis of identity for male teenagers, Muslim girls are thriving with their new-found opportunities in the UK as they pull steadily ahead of their male counterparts at GCSE level and in the numbers going on to higher education.


Samina: Are you lurking... Why is it that muslim men are ``disenfranchised`` but muslim women seem to be doing well, given the vast opportunities available to them...

why are the muslim men blowing themselves up for Islamic causes when they are presumably from the same race as the muslim women doing well..can`t explain everything away by blaming it on racism....

beena, tahmed or anyone
There are some factual errors can any one spot them.

Orphans of Islam

The history of Britain`s Mirpur population may help to explain why some became suicide bombers

Madeleine Bunting
Monday July 18, 2005
The Guardian

The room is packed, the discussions go on way beyond the allotted time: this was a meeting of young professional Muslims in London at the weekend. The anguish and self-criticism was unstoppable as they struggled to find answers to how their faith could have nurtured such a perversion as suicide bombers in London. The object of their scrutiny - the chairman singled this out as a mark of accepting their responsibility - was not British foreign policy, but their faith. What do the Qur`anic verses about jihad really mean? How can extremists misinterpret them? And the imam, Abu Muntasir, patiently tried to answer - it`s been a failure of our scholars, a failure of our teachers. The harshness of the self-criticism was painful to hear: this was a community flagellating itself.
The themes at the core of their discussions were about the failed transmission of Islamic values in Britain and the collapse of Islamic authority - long traditions of respected scholarship and religious leadership were all cast aside on 7/7 by these four young men - why? Over the coming months, every detail of these young men`s lives will be picked over by anti-terrorist experts to map the experiences and influences that shaped their extremism. It`s early days, but already some of the factors that need to be plotted on to this map are emerging.
First, the families of the three Leeds-based bombers were originally, in all likelihood, from Mirpur, part of Pakistani Kashmir. Mirpuris form 70% of the British Muslim population, and the figure is even higher in northern towns. Just as the dominant role of Saudis in 9/11 led to a spotlight on the religion and politics of Saudi Arabia, so attention will focus on Mirpur.
This rural, impoverished district provided cheap, unskilled labour for Britain in the 60s and 70s. Most immigrants were from subsistence-farming communities and had had little or no schooling. They made a huge cultural and geographical leap to settle in the UK - the dislocation is hard to imagine.
One of the things they brought with them was the perception of a long history of dispossession and marginalisation. Partition brought terrible bloodshed and the division of Kashmir between Pakistan and India. (This was the issue cited until very recently as the most pressing political priority in the UK by the majority of British Muslims.) Within Pakistan, Mirpur is to the more dominant Punjabis what the Irish have historically been to the British, explained one Mirpuri.
In the 80s the remittances began to flow in, fuelling an extraordinary boom in Mirpur, bringing computers, televisions, the internet, satellite dishes, microwaves and fridges. One of the strongest Mirpuri traditions is that you marry your first cousin, so there is a constant exchange with the UK to renew the Mirpuri influence for the next generation. Mirpur has been an example - and there are others the world over - of the painful disruption in deeply traditional communities of a sudden influx of wealth and interface with modernity.
The narrative of dispossession gained new force in the 80s amid the collapse of the industries in which the first generation had come to work. Men who had worked long hours in the textiles and steel industry - and had been, arguably, more integrated into white workforces than their taxi-driver and curry-house sons - found themselves redundant. The more recent oppression and humiliation of Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan would have resonated powerfully with these collective memories of Yorkshire Muslims, passed from grandfather and father to son.
A second critical issue that needs to be plotted on to this map is that the vast majority of Mirpuris adhere to a tradition of Sufi Islam called Barelwi. One of the Indian Islamic revival movements of the late 19th century, Barelwi life revolves around holy elders known as pirs; their graves become shrines and places of pilgrimage.
The problem, which has been well known within many Muslim circles, is that Barelwism has particularly struggled to translate itself effectively into British urban life. There are very few English-speaking Barelwi imams. They have steered clear of national organisations such as the Muslim Council of Britain, and even set up their own umbrella group recently. They are treated with disdain by the Wahhabi and Muslim Brotherhood-influenced groups who are more vocal in the British Muslim community. The writ of the MCB`s Iqbal Sacranie, a Malawi-born Indian Muslim, doesn`t reach into such introverted communities. One wry comment at the weekend was: if Sacranie is visiting the Leeds Barelwis now that`s great, but it`s probably the first time.
What has been obvious to thoughtful second-generation Barelwis themselves is that they are losing the young. The mosques are tightly controlled by the old patriarchal elders, who hire their Urdu-speaking imams from the home village. The kids come to prayers, don`t understand much of what they see or hear and drift off to find an Islam that can answer their questions.
A profound disconnection has opened up between the communal experience of political and economic dispossession and the pious, otherworldly Barelwi traditions. As one Yorkshireman from a Barelwi background, Azhar Hussain, said: ``When I was 17 and got to university and began to take religion more seriously I went to hear all the Islamic groups to see which one made the most sense. The Barelwis are not on university campuses; they can`t answer those questions.``
In the early 90s Arabs told Navid Akhtar, a broadcast journalist from a Barelwi background, that they had spotted a constituency in these disaffected young Muslims; ``They called them `orphans of Islam`,`` Akhtar says.
To compound the crisis of identity for male teenagers, Muslim girls are thriving with their new-found opportunities in the UK as they pull steadily ahead of their male counterparts at GCSE level and in the numbers going on to higher education.
Some in the Muslim community have been struggling with these problems for years, trying to challenge recalcitrant mosque committees, trying to set up youth projects; they have been well aware of the threat of extremism. ``We`ve been too afraid,`` a Muslim living in a northern town told me. ``There are so many frustrated, angry men who tell me, `They`re doing it in Iraq, why can`t we do it to them?` They convince themselves that this is Islamic. I find it frustrating that our community hasn`t tackled this. We have to talk to them about these issues - let them get their anger out.``
For this man, who does voluntary community work, what lies ahead is an impossible tightrope of near-illegality if he is to take on the challenge of extremism in his community - he agrees and likens his position to that of someone who works with drug addicts. We are told that what lies ahead is a battle of ideas. If so, this kind of community volunteer is on the frontline. It will be his judgment call as to when he can guide a disorientated, angry young man or whether he has to shop him to the police.

This is first time I am reading a piece of writing by this essayist. Good compilation, narration and smoothness are giving a picture of author’s grip on the topic. But worthiness of the text is not purely based on facts. Media should be free but it should not be free from all ethical, societal of cultural errands and legal responsibilities. Every body wants a free media but no body appreciates a “freelance” media. Media bears a huge responsibility of educating masses. Nawaz Sharif government’s lambasting against a media group was not purely based on their previous tax record or launching a private television channel. Negating government policies, mocking those at the helm and playing irresponsible role were the major complaints. Tax issue might be in the corner. As for as opening of a private television channel is concerned one thing should be in mind that at that time there was no policy in Pakistan for opening private channel. Launching of private television channels was permited in Musharraf’s “enlightened and moderate” ear (not mentioning Mukhtaran Mai’s episode). Therefore it’s an invalid question by the author.

In the middle of the article, Beenajee, lose grip of the topic and tilted towards presenting Mr. Amir Mir as the only jobless person in the country. No doubt that “media” have not done well with this brilliant journalist. Hope this advocacy will help to get a job for this gentleman.

Over all, thanks for your nice words.

Dr. Tallat

(long post)

How Free is ’free?’Beena Sarwar

first a digressionary thanks to chowk editors for three good articles on a similar theme!...

what is free?

free--adj. Having the legal and political rights of a citizen (representatives…shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons - U.S. Constitution art. I)
Enjoying civil and political liberty (a free people)
Enjoying political independence or freedom from outside domination (these united colonies are, and of right ought to be free and independent States - Declaration of Independence)
Not subject to the control or domination of another
Made or done as a matter of choice and right Not compelled or restricted (no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof - U.S. Constitution amend. I) (a free and voluntary confession)
Relieved from or lacking a burden (as a lien or other encumbrance on title) (a buyer in ordinary course of business…takes free of a security interest created by his seller - Uniform Commercial Code)
Not bound, confined, or detained by force (free on bail)
Having no trade restrictions
Not subject to government regulation
of foreign exchange Not subject to restriction or official control

next, if you are still with me;)

who is free?

****
...more digressions...what else?...it is 0930 and have just had a breakfast...so am no hungry...but i need to express this...there is no free lunch beena

...the examples you mentioned are typical timocratic suppression of views...and while i have full sympathies with them as i do with those imprisoned in iran and other countries...i am going to express my views on a related but different subject...

****

the role of media in being objective...my beef is...they are not...objective...

the media is increasingly more and more subjective...and that is for me more of a concern:

* in pakistan you are already familiar with the shenanigans going on...need i mention what is so commonly known to the insiders in the jang or dawn groups?

* similarly in india..major sanctimonious chains are selling op-ed spaces...selling? yes!

* in US the bastion (according to the misguided) the freedom is limited...one example...look at the kowtowing by the US media in the Iraq War...in the beginning...print or electronic...neither really examined the news critically or objectively.... keen students can notice this even today if they monitor both the print and electronic media...there is hardly any journalistic initiative...and instead there is a preposterous reliance on the coverage...playing one newsmaker against another and then getting in their slant sideways

***
beena: would be more interested in learning on your views on a sustainably objective news environment...

lve

t

How free is ``free``?

Well, IMHO free shall be really free when a new middle-class emerges from within (and not consisting only of people with existing status quo inertia levels to protect).

And your media will be free when newspapers cost 1 or 2 rupees maximum in Pakistan. Till then they will remain elitist avenues at 15-20 rupees of badly printed broadsheets.

Good luck.

I think now the era of REAL freedom has already been initiated...that rascal Musharaff over throws democracy and ensures that the ``promotion of virtue and prevention of evil department`` from the Taliban return to their mother land. This time there is going to be strict policing by the goons of this department and the press can expect these goons to descend on them with their canes to teach them a few lessons in ``political decency``!!!!


‘Hasba bill to isolate MMA’

By Raja Asghar

ISLAMABAD, July 9: The NWFP government’s plan to enact a new law to create religious watchdogs has rung alarm bells in the country, some critics seeing it as a move by the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal (MMA) government to Talibanise the sensitive region.

While the MMA government was due to introduce the controversial Hasbah Bill in the provincial assembly on Monday, the move was denounced by almost all other major political parties and human rights groups in the country.

But the MMA, which says it only seeks to reform society in line with Islamic teachings, seemed set to get the bill passed by its comfortable majority in the 124-seat house.

Designed to create religious mohtasibs, or ombudsmen, at the provincial, district and tehsil levels who will be helped by a virtual religious police in what will be known as “amar bil maroof wa nahi anil munkar” (promotion of virtue and prevention of evil) department, the bill is likely to further strain the provincial government’s relations with the federal government, political sources said.

On a comparative scale, one could indeed say that present Pakistani journalists and the like have more liberties compared to many other times in the past. As always, the problem with a “little bit of freedom” is that it stimulates the desire for complete freedom. This is a little bit like coming to the end of a tunnel and seeing some light – one only wants to run towards that light and get out of the hell-hole, not sit down and contemplate how that little bit of light is better than complete darkness that prevailed before!

Freedom from purely commercial considerations will never happen, of course!

Let me take a moment here to congratulate the brave Pakistani writers and journalists whom I really admire (you included) who have over the years continuously stuck your necks out (under various kinds of dictatorships) for causes that really matter for the subcontinent – including and especially women’s emancipation and government abuse of power. As long as SOMEBODY continues to highlight the abuses of dictatorial powers, the whole population can not be considered pliant. Many of you provide the only true ray of hope for a brighter future! The Indians have it easy, by comparison!

I hope SOMEBODY in the government takes note of the plea you have made on behalf of Mr. Mir, and have the sound judgment to take this one right albeit small step toward what is only inevitable!

You complain complain too much. Press is pretty free today in Pakistan. I read columns by Irfan Hussain, Ayaz Amir, those from The Friday times, Jang etc. etc. They are very critical of Pakistan`s politics, govt. and men in Khaki. No body seems to bother them or harass. Is it not free press? Pakistani Press is as free as that of India-give and take a bit.

well this article was printed in the pakistani media -- or wasnt it rozaiba

Nothing is `free`.So why expect the press to be `free` in a dictatorship?.Be grateful for what you got and run with it.This is as enlightened as a dictatorship can ever get!!!.

Well written article and very timely ... but when Pak govt says media is free and that is true it however does not mean that we are on road to true democracy which the general saab keeps harping about.

Well written article and very timely ... but when Pak govt says media is free and that is true it however does not mean that we are on road to true democracy which the general saab keeps harping about.

The media in Pakistan is indeed very free. As long as you don`t go after the Faujiz (ie Javed Hashmi) and don`t talk about principles and are willing to sacrifice them for `national interests` and don`t talk about the fauji crooks of the 80`s and don`t bother to investigate the Chinese train engines ordered by fauji brigadiers whose breaks don`t work causing a couple of hundred random deaths, it`s all cool.