Ayodhya Back On Top

Re: # 13


Here ``those`` are indians or americans?
i have personal exp. with a few indians on this. I knew a person who would hate jap cars simply because most of the desis would buy toyotas/hondas. I guess he didn`t want to fit into that desi stereotype. I have seen many others badmouthing jap cars in school days but after realising the value of dal-atta preferring much dependent jap cars which have resale value.
There was a guy who once told me that he prefers german cars over japs because japs are more electrical whereas germans are more mechanical under the hood. I kept wondering how many times this guy opens the hood before driving the car. Maybe that was just an excuse to keep a distance from being branded a desi.

``wonder why these terrorists offered prayers at a TEMPLE before carrying out the attack??? ``

They did so to fool the jeep driver they had picked up into thinking they were harmless hindu devotees interested in a darshan of the ram mandir....

First Chowk should merge these two threads by Temporal and Farzana. Or reserve one thread for gujju’s both nicks ranjit and mike.

The terrorist attack is a political statement by the people who are outside of the main stream. It was obvious that the terrorist would have never reached the sacred monuments. Still they decided to make the political statement that they wanna stop the ongoing efforts in the subcontinent for better relations.

There should not be any doubt in anyone’s mind that better relations with India lead to a liberal and secular Pakistan. It is important for Pakistanis to understand the impact of this attack on Pakistani politics. The attack is an effort to disrupt growing indo-Pak relations and to interrupt the emergence of secular, moderate, and liberal forces in Pakistan and Pakistani should be as indignant about this attack as Indians are. The terrorist attack on India is meant to influence the internal struggle in Pakistan. Fanatics know that losing Pakistan could mean the end of the day light for them.

It is unfortunate that the US did not come down hard on the Pakistani army after the 9/11 attacks, when it was clear to all that the terrorists had full-blown Pak army sponsorship. The US also stopped India at that time to pressure the Pak army thus allowing the Pak army to continue its benevolent and laissez-faire attitude about the terrorist cells in Pakistan.

For liberals, moderates and secularist in Pakistan, relations with India are much more important than Kashmir or even the sympathy with the Indian Muslims. The struggle in Pakistan is for the soul of Pakistan and if the religious forces crush the small liberal, moderate, and secularist forces in Pakistan again, Pakistan would become another Iraq in the next few years.

It is an act of sabotage and both India and Pakistan should treat it that way. However, what should really be done about these terrorists?

Here is my proposal for the Indian government.

1. Indian government must suspend all its ongoing negotiations or steps for better relations with Pakistan immediately. If it means to suspend the Bus service in Kashmir, the Indian govt. should do it.
2. The US and the Indian government must bring down enormous pressure on the Pakistan army to abandon its non-committal attitude about the religious outfits and their terrorist cells.

India must agree to resume all suspended actions only after:

1. The ISI cells that are sponsoring the Islamic fundamentalists’ parties and their militant wings are demolished.
2. The Pakistan army must start a process within the ISI to clean out all the religious fanatics that are hiding in ISI in military uniforms.
3. The army must close all Madarssah that are the hotbed of militant activities.

Why I think India should follow my advice instead of isolating/minimizing the terrorist action from the normalization of relations with Pakistan?
The immediate reaction of the Congress government would be to salvage the peace process but in view of the enormous pressure it is going to bear from the right wing parties, Congress should recognize that if allowed to act again, the terrorist would make another attempt to sabotage the peace process. Taking a step back now and putting pressure on the Pakistan army for the final solution of the terrorist and fanatic menace, would make any future peace process durable and more meaningful.

Pakistan and India relations are important but taking care of the fanatics and terrorists is more important for both India and the people of Pakistan. India-Pak relations can be placed on hold but action against the terrorist should not be left at the whims of the Pak army.

If the hardliners in Pakistan think that the terrorist attacks in India would help them, then the Indian government must turn around and use their act against them.

There are only two forces in the world that can turn Pakistan into a liberal, moderate, and secular country and they are United States and India. With out a proactive India under a secular leadership, the menace of fanaticism inside the Pakistani borders would not end.

The Pakistan liberal, secularist and moderates should support India in bringing the pressure on the army to abandon its benevolent attitude towards religious fanatics.

plain and simple this is a BJP/RSS/VHP job.

wonder why these terrorists offered prayers at a TEMPLE before carrying out the attack???

NOW Mr. Advani has played his card. none other than man of his genius can come up with this gem. country may go to hell but BJP is back in play.

phase II of this operation is riots in select cities of india, most probably in Bihar as the elections are due there.

My guess, this RSS job has the following objectives:

1. Get BJP out of its slump
2. Revive the hindutva fervour among hindus
3. Prepare fertile communal environment for Bihar elections

all the comments from Sanghis on this forum are welcome !!!

Re: # 10 net

well said.

10,

yeah tell those who won`t buy Toyota and Jap cars just because they are `jap crap`.

gujju, let temporal be here..remember the ISI, the LeT? ;-)

temporal...shooooo paki shoooo...its none of your business...shoooo

Re: # 7

``On one hand they see the mosques on their temple ruins - symbols of past humilliations........On the other hand, they have secular and Gandhian image to maintain. What to do? What to do?``

the answer is quite simple:

Forgive but not forget.

The americans have forgiven the japs for Pearl Harbor but have not forgotten it. They have a memorial which reminds them of it.

The Japs have forgiven the Americans for A-bombs, but have not forgotten it. Their Prime Ministers still visit the Yasukuni shrine.

The Jews have forgiven the Germans for the holocaust but have not forgotten it.

people wo don`t learn from history are destined to repeat it.

Re: # 7

allow me to complete the idiom

``supp day muNh `ch kohR kirli,khaavay taaN kohRi,chhadday taaN kalanki``

These kind of sabotage activities always escalate whenever there is some expectation of peace and improvement relations between two countries.
This has become so much like a stereotype that people have stopped reacting to such events.
As Veeresh has said,life goes on normally.

The dilema of Hindus is

``Sup they moonh ch korh kirli......``. ( A lizard in a snake`s mouth) - It can`t eat it and it can`t spit it out.

On one hand they see the mosques on their temple ruins - symbols of past humilliations........On the other hand, they have secular and Gandhian image to maintain. What to do? What to do?

no riots take place when hindu temples are attacked. riots take place when a mosque is attacked.

temporal, there have been several successful bomb attacks and several foiled ones, even since godhra..two in bombay were particularly high-casualty..there were a couple more all ascribed to cross-border jehadis..no communal riots or anything.

MAI KYA MOONCH MAROR KE

UTHAY EK SHARAAB KHANA KHOL DEYO.
HINDU TE MUSALMAAN DONO DAARU PEE-KE TALLEY RAYN GE.
KOI VIOLENCE NAYE HOYEGI.

THEKAY DA PERMIT QUAIDON NU DE DEYO.

MAI SUB KUJH SAMBHALL LAYA GA.

temporal:
I do not expect any repurcussions. It is being portrayed as a jihadi attack and not a Godhra-type communal attack and the attackers did not succeed. In any case Maulana Mulayam is not the same as Modi.
I am willing to bet a loonie.